i would like to debunk the claim in pic related a bit further then usual.
the usual debunking says they are equal rights. the goverment can't take either away but does not provide them.
i think healthcare in america is more a right then guns because you can write off healthcare expenses on your taxxes.
to non americans, this means if you make 40k$ a year, and pay 5k$ for health treatments, your income tax is the same as if you made 35k$ and payed no for no health treatments.
One is a positive right.
Other is a negative right.
People these days...
healthcare is not a right. you are not entitled to goods in services that you do not pay for.
the right to own is covered by the constitution. please keep your jewy hands out of our politics
fucking retard, trash like you should honestly sit down and shut up at every given opportunity, that's the greatest favor a moron like you can do for himself
>i think healthcare in america is more a right then guns because you can write off healthcare expenses on your taxxes.
you're saying, "healthcare is more of a right than guns, because you can write off (some) healthcare expenses on your taxes -- whereas you're always going to be paying taxes on arms/munitions"?
Obviously, an ameican texting wile sharting in mart.
There are no such thing as "human rights."
There are individual rights associated not with random arbitrary luxuries, but with properties inherent in a human being. I.e. the ability to think, the ability to communicate their thoughts, and the ability to use their mind to transform their effort into something tangible. The right to keep weapons is found under the right to keep property which is derived from the ability to use the mind to transform one thing into something else. The three fundamental rights are not arbitrary assertions that everyone should have some random commodity for free (i.e healthcare), but are derived from properties inherent in the human being. These are the rights to Life, Liberty, and Property, and can only be maintained through the individuals self-defense of those rights so long as they don't actively interfere with another's rights. In fact, universal healthcare, which is what this post is advocating, violates at least one of these fundamental rights, therefore cannot be a "human right" in any sense of the word.
Don't waste your time man. People aren't educated on what the constitution is or what assault weapons are.
>fucking retard, trash like you should honestly sit down and shut up at every given opportunity, that's the greatest favor a moron like you can do for himself
>calls someone retard
>doesnt attack their argument at all
Looks like you are the retard instead. What's the matter, too fucking stupid to get your point across? kys
i'm not saying it should be but it is treated more like a right because you don't even pay taxxes because of it as opposed to guns
>You have a right to purchase either
>You do not have the right to have either given to you at someone else's expense
>one thing increases government spending
>one does not
Hmm really makes you think
Your health is your own business. Self defense is everyone's
neither is a human right you retards
stop stealing for taxpayers
A lot of people who don't support universal healthcare in the states don't want the government mucking it up. The U.S. bureaucracy is pretty wasteful, and creating an effective universal healthcare system that doesn't waste obscene amounts of money requires more reform.
I'd rather the government give me guns every year than tax breaks on my medical spending.
Guns aren't handed out at taxpayer's expense you kike. Healthcare would be. I dont want to pay for Bonquisha's heart bypass and I don't expect people to pay for me.
There used to be this philosophy in life called, "rugged individualism."
Insane to think that before Marx and all you other jews started getting socialist ideas out there that people worked and took care of themselves.
And when the state mandates that I pay for your assault weapons we can have this discussion.
Until then it's a total non sequitur.
guns are a constitutional right in america. health care is a privatized industry just like gun manufacturing. even if you say health care is on the same level as gun ownership in america you still have to pay for it
they dont give people free guns just because they are citizens. you still pay for them
Real tired of the concept of human rights being stretched to include goods and services where human rights are meant to be, you know, rights.
People want retarded human rights installed like healthcare or food or even internet access when rights are more about what you can or can't do instead of just getting "free" stuff.
Requiring that someone does something for you is not a right of nature. There is no system of life that says you deserve medical treatment.
Also the 2nd amendment doesn't enumerate a right. It details a limitation on government. You always had the right to weapons and self defense by law of nature. The 2nd amendment just stops the society, and government, from taking that right away as part of the bargain in joining a society.
John Locke has more to say about this.
>Also, just to drive home how wrong this is
By law of nature, murder is a human right. We were all endowed by our creator, God, nature, magnets, etc. The right to murder other humans for any and every reason. Murder is a right that we gave up as bargain for joining a civilized society.
Nobody is forcing you to pay for my privately owned rifles pistols or flare gun. I have a right to own my firearm just like you have a right to own healthcare. You do not have a right to force me to pay for your healthcare as well as I do not have a right to force you to pay for my firearms and ammo.
yeah Israel really has a dog in the fight how about you give up all of your arms and let Egypt govern your country
>fucking retard, trash like you should honestly sit down and shut up at every given opportunity, that's the greatest favor a moron like you can do for himself
not sure how long you've been deluding yourself w/thoughts like "durr I am someone with sufficient intelligence to recognize an argument," but you should honestly just stop while you're behind; protip, you scum-of-the-earth moron -- "healthcare is not a right. you are not entitled to goods in services that you do not pay for" is not an argument
>i'm not saying it should be but it is treated more like a right because you don't even pay taxxes because of it as opposed to guns
yeah, i thought that's what you were saying; most of the retards in this thread are too dumb to understand that you're making an observation -- and not arguing for/against anything, at all -- but for the record, it's a pretty astute observation
>There used to be this philosophy in life called, "rugged individualism."
>Insane to think that before Marx and all you other jews started getting socialist ideas out there that people worked and took care of themselves.
>fucking retard, trash like you should honestly sit down and shut up at every given opportunity, that's the greatest favor a moron like you can do for himself
I don't have to pay for you to own a gun.
The meaning of America is a highly specific understanding of the concept of rights as exclusive claims. All discussion of rights that does not proceed from this is incoherent and irrelevant to American law. Health care is a service, not a right. Watch In Search Of The Second Amendment, free on YouTube.
First post best post
except for the tax subsidies to arms companies that you're too much of a fucking retard to even be aware of -- so yes, you very much do "pay for you to own a gun," idiot; please sit down and shut up, forever
Yeah fuck those leeches! They have no right to get their assault weapons payed for by other peoples tax money!
source?
You could say they are both rights in the sense that the government should not get in your way of attaining them. Of course, if what a person means by "right" is that the government should spend other people's money on you, that person should jump off a cliff.
I want to plow the cow.
>This shit
>Ever being valid
THE BILL OF RIGHTS ESTABLISHES NEGATIVE RIGHTS FOR THE GOVERNMENT, NOT POSITIVE RIGHTS FOR THE PEOPLE
IT \\\\////SPECIFICALLY\\\\//// SAYS THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN NOT INFRINGE ON THE BEARING OF ARMS BY THE PEOPLE, OR THE FREE SPEECH OF THE PEOPLE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE
THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE ARE
YOU GUESSED IT
FUCKING INVINCIBLE.
THEY CAN NOT BE INFRINGED OR DENIED, THEY CAN ONLY BE OPPRESSED. WHEN THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE ARE OPPRESSED, IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PEOPLE, THEIR DUTY IN FACT, TO DISMANTLE THE GOVERNMENT.
ATTEMPTING TO SHOVE THE --POSITIVE RIGHT-- TO MEDICAL CARE INTO THE --NEGATIVE RIGHT-- CENTERED BILL OF RIGHTS IS RETARDED AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR EVEN CONSIDERING IT.
lol, cess/pol/ at its best
I've never understood why burgers get so burger blasted about healthcare. As Canadians, part of my tax dollars go towards making sure that if I ever need medical care, I'm covered, period. This has saved my life in the past, and I'm more than happy to continue paying into the system.
Of course there are those that take advantage of it (especially emergency room services) but that can be improved over time with some tighter policies around who gets services and who doesn't.
Except it is? Since when are you entitled to goods? All you've done to refute is ad hominem. How bout you calm the fuck down and enlighten us on your reasoning? Unless, of course, you're just another retard
TO ADD ONE MORE THING ONTO THAT:
TO CLAIM THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS ABOVE THE PEOPLE, OR THAT IT HAS A BETTER DECISION MAKING ABILITY, OR HELL EVEN THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD BEND OVER TO THE GOVERNMENT, IS STUPID.
THE GOVERNMENT IS THERE TO SERVE YOU, THE PEOPLE. IT IS IN FACT A GROUPING OF PEOPLE ACTING AS A REPRESENTATIVE BODY FOR THE PEOPLE AS A WHOLE.
SUGGESTING THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT, OR THE OBLIGATION/ENTITLEMENT TO GARNISH YOUR WAGES WITH NO CONSENT ON YOUR BEHALF, AND PUT IT INTO A PROGRAM THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT AGREE WITH, IS RETARDED.
IF YOU YANKS FUCKING GRASPED THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT, THAT YOU ARE NOT ABOVE THE GOVERNMENT BUT THE GOVERNMENT IS AT THE SAME TIME NOT ABOVE YOU, IE THAT YOU ARE EQUAL TO THE GOVERNMENT, TYRANNY WOULD VANISH ALMOST OVERNIGHT.
I think there is a misunderstanding.
If guns are a right, you are free to purchase a gun or to not.
If healthcare is a right, you are free to purchase it or not.
Taxes are anti-American too.
>source?
holy fuck retard, this is like asking for a source that 9/11 happened -- you're ostensibly American, you should fucking know this shit
>documentcloud.org/documents/550046-gun-subsidies.html
>Except it is?
>not sure how long you've been deluding yourself w/thoughts like "durr I am someone with sufficient intelligence to recognize an argument," but you should honestly just stop while you're behind; protip, you scum-of-the-earth moron -- "healthcare is not a right. you are not entitled to goods in services that you do not pay for" is not an argument
>csus.edu/indiv/m/mayesgr/phl4/because/part5argumentexplanation.htm
Hey look, it's the closest you'll come to a college education; savor it, moron
I have a right to purchase health insurance and to purchase a gun. Neither should be free to me or anyone else.
get fucked m8
>healthcare is not a right. you are not entitled to goods in services that you do not pay for" is not an argument
ARE YOU UNAWARE OF THE IDEA OF A FUCKING NEGATIVE RIGHT
HAVE YOU READ YOUR OWN CONSTITUTION
OR YOUR OWN BILL OF RIGHTS
YOU FUCKING WATERMELON EATING, GRAPE DRANK DRINKING NIGGER?
those are VERY loose definitions of "subsidy"
"tax break so they move their factories here and give us taxes" and "tax break for training our employees" are hardly the types of "subsidies" that people talk about when they talk about "subsidies"
He's absolutely right, faggot.
All caps is annoying though
It helps get the message through the mini trump wall inside the head of each leftist.
You don't get free weapons, you have to purchase them.
You still have a right to healthcare, but it means it is available to you aswell, not that you have to get it for "free" by paying it for everyone else.
As opposed to Ass Pain, where we are forced to pay for medicare of everyone and we can't purchase a gun without many restrictions if at all.
Pretty much because we don't wanna pay for other people's shit
I find it hilarious that we spend out the ass for healthcare, yet get practically jack shit back. Our healthcare fucking sucks so bad that countries with universal healthcare routinely perform better than us, and even with insurance, some emergencies still bankrupt.
Also to the pic, I believe in both.
Your move, OP.
>Our healthcare fucking sucks so bad
What the fuck are you talking about, we have the best healthcare in the world. Our cancer survivor rates are literally higher than anywhere else. Our wait times are much much better than universal healthcare. There's a reason that the best doctors in the world come to America
dumb fucking aussie trash, i'm trying to have patience because i know your people can't properly function without being in direct sunlight -- but you're pushing it; open a window and try again
>those are VERY loose definitions of "subsidy"
no, they're not; you're just an utter moron, holy fuck, what do YOU think a tax subsidy is idiot??
more people deserve to die than people who deserve to live
/thread
checkmate atheists
>human rights
a weasel using weasel words. wow, surprising.
Tax breaks are not subsidies. A subsidy is money given away. A tax break is just taking less money from them in the first place. Accounting wise, they may seem similar. But they are fundamentally different
There's nothing to debunk, the statement doesn't make any sense. Commodities by definition can't be rights because they cost money. Which means for the government to be able to provide them, they have to take money from other people.
All of our RIGHTS are intangible things, an idea. You don't have a right to be provided with a gun free of charge, for example. If the 2nd Amendment read that way, this comparison MIGHT make sense.
>I've never understood why burgers get so burger blasted about healthcare.
Because we don't want to be charged even if we don't need the healthcare. We don't want to be forced to pay for other people's healthcare. And we CERTAINLY don't want the government involved in every single medical decision. By the way, your socialized medicine would be stuck in the 1960s without the free markets of the US and Israel inventing new medical technologies all the time. Without competition you lose innovation.
Currently, anyone (except felons and the involuntarily committed) who wants to buy a gun can go and buy one.
Currently (and even before the ACA), anyone who wants to buy a medical procedure can go and buy one. Including felons and the involuntarily committed.
More people can freely purchase healthcare than can purchase guns.
I don't force you and others to pay for my guns and ammo, don't make me pay for your healthcare for all the preventative illnesses you have because you're fat positive and don't want to control your portions and take a walk every day.
Why is there the assumption that it can only be 1 or the other?
Many people like myself support both ideas in that image.
I have a shitload of guns, and think you shouldnt have to mortgage your house to get healthcare.
HOWEVER: under the constitution owning a gun is listed as a right, it never says anything about healthcare.
In america healthcare is a PRIVLEDGE, not a right.
why are you guys responding to a retard who put sage in the name field and not in the options field?
Assault weapons is an exaggeration from anyone who's never touched a gun, but let's go ahead.
If personal defense is not a human right then take it away from everyone. We don't need militaries because they wouldn't be a human right or be necessary. Then the world will be peaceful right?
You have the right to buy guns. You also have the right to buy healthcare. This metaphor makes no sense.
>trash like you should honestly sit down and shut up
you dun goof'd. 1st Amendment.
it's shooped friendo
uhhhh
Assault weapons are not a right. I don't even know what that means.
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. No one is obligated to provide you with weapons. You may need to make them yourself.
In that sense, healthcare is already a right in the same way—the government has no constitutional authority to deprive you of access to healthcare, though you may have to create it yourself.
I'm sorry your country does not recognize natural rights, but ours does
a piece of paper isn't giving us that right, we were already born with it
REASONABLE HEALTHCARE CONTROL. No one on the FBI terrorist watch list should be allowed to have healthcare.
>You have to pay for a gun
>You have to pay for healthcare
Neither are free.
They twisted the words to make it sound like you get a gun a birth but no healthcare.
>tax breaks are not subsidies
correct
>a subsidy is money given away
correct
>a tax break is just taking less money from them in the first place
correct
>except for the tax subsidies to arms companies that you're too much of a fucking retard to even be aware of
correct
>al.com/business/index.ssf/2014/02/alabamas_incentive_offer_to_re.html
>motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/gun-manufacturers-subsidies-southern-states