I'm pretty sure USSR had a better human rights record than JewSA

I'm pretty sure USSR had a better human rights record than JewSA.

You mean outside it’s own borders?
Then yes

No haebeus corpus in ussr

>>>/leftypol/

No it didn't.

How many people died trying to get out of the US?

you didn't have to tip your doctor, so here's that

>replying to an obvious bait thread when it almost sank
uhhh

If you only count 50s me beyond

Just had to bribe them

>leaf
>shit thread
Checks out

...

...

yeah shure

GOOD picture

grill in the middle is a C U T I E

Late USSR, yes.

Oh, In comparison with USA it had before 60s too.

>leafs
>bait threads

Like 2 pees in a pod

Fun fact: there are more people in jail in the US right now than there ever were in Stalin's USSR.

>ever were
in any given year... according to some estimates.

BU BU LE GOMMUNISM KILLED 200 MILLION BILLION PEOPLE

> flag
> denying reality
checks out
yeh. why store people in the prisons if you can kill them.

I heard it only takes $300 to get into North Korea from china.

>everyone who dies in a socialist country is a 'victim of communism'
>population loss through 'birth deficit' (i.e, people who literally never existed) are also 'victims of communism'

are you fucking denying stalins repressions?

No, I'm denying that the dead were victims of communism anymore than all of the people killed directly or indirectly by capitalist countries over the decades and centuries are victims of capitalism.

The difference is that capitalism is a natural order of things whereas communism is a weird ass construct that inevitably leads to deaths of millions of people. The amount of policing you need to establish in order to distribute the resources equally is so immense that it will (and has) become an unbelievable tyranny with Great Purges and Gulags.
And please explain to me how victims of Gulag are not the victims of Communism.

>The difference is that capitalism is a natural order of things

retarded

Capitalism is not older than the 15th-16th century and was only established through great violence.

>And please explain to me how victims of Gulag are not the victims of Communism.

The vast majority of gulag prisoners were convicted of ordinary crimes (robbery, murder, etc.) not political ones. Are people in American prisons 'victims of capitalism'.

>thread is about human rights
>"but normal criminals were thrown into gulags"

It's a fucking prison. Calling it a gulag makes it sound scarier I guess but it's literally a prison. Prisoners all over the world are forced to do unpaid labor and live in shitty conditions but no one talks about 'American labor camps'.

He meant more like markets providing rather than the state. In a communist system the products are decided by the state plan which can never take everything into account. On the other hand pre-15th century since you're so fucking anal about definitions, there was no over all state plan. People made what they fucking need, for them selves and to trade with.

Stalin era aside I believe it.

>On the other hand pre-15th century since you're so fucking anal about definitions, there was no over all state plan. People made what they fucking need, for them selves and to trade with.

Right so not capitalism.

Capitalism has not existed for the vast, vast majority of human history.

> retarded
What is retarded in strong eating weak? This is how things work.


> Capitalism is not older than the 15th-16th century and was only established through great violence.
Expand on this thought, please.

>The vast majority of gulag prisoners were convicted of ordinary crimes (robbery, murder, etc.) not political ones.
1. Tell that to my granddad who suddenly went missing because he was Polish.
2. What you are essentially saying is that if political prisoners are a minority then Gulag is completely justified. And it is justifiable to do to people the stuff they did if these people are criminals.

>
I see you chose to completely ignore my point about policing.

I dont give a shit about capitalism you shit head, you're intentionally side-stepping the state planned fuck ups thats a part of the system you are defending.

they created a fake illness to get rid from opposition and dissidents and send them to psychiatric hospital where they turns into vegetables
so, basically

Actually vast majority of russian people in soviet era (especially 50s-70s) lived quite richly. Everyone had a flat, a car, a dacha. Plane tickets to everywhere within USSR were dirt cheap.

it wasn't like American decadence, but it wasn't as bad as American (or modern) poverty either
people lived modest but well off lives
now of course the soviets had hard times in the beginning but maintaining a communist state against the entire world is no easy task

JewSA, JewSSR, same shit

>What is retarded in strong eating weak? This is how things work.
What's retarded is that asserting that capitalism is the 'natural order' when humanity has existed for a million years and has existed under capitalism for about 500 at most.
>Expand on this thought, please.
Commodity production, that is, production for the purpose of exchange (sale on the market), was not the dominant mode of production until the 14th-16th century roughly/

>1. Tell that to my granddad who suddenly went missing because he was Polish.
I said 'the vast majority' not 'all'.
>2. What you are essentially saying is that if political prisoners are a minority then Gulag is completely justified. And it is justifiable to do to people the stuff they did if these people are criminals.
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that everyone thinks the gulag was some kind of evil nightmare full of innocent dissidents when really it was just a prison.

>I see you chose to completely ignore my point about policing.
What point about policing? This?
>The amount of policing you need to establish in order to distribute the resources equally is so immense that it will (and has) become an unbelievable tyranny with Great Purges and Gulags
Communism isn't 'distributing the resources equally' so I don't even know what the relevance of this is.

Define communism then buddy

BIG hats
BIG boots
BIG portraits of stern yet determined people
lots of red like a firetruck so you know its BOYS ONLY

yeah except I came from nothing and live like a king at 28 by just putting a modicum of effort in and damn near every person here that has done the same has been rewarded similarly since our founding. Same shit my fucking ass
so through all the oppression, lives lost, brutal regimes, you managed to shuffle the deck enough to be a respectable society allegedly for a generation until the house of cards quickly fell apart, thats fantastic

The negation of capitalism. The abolition of economic classes (which isn't the same as 'everyone is exactly the same'). Production is no longer organized for exchange (sale) but rather for use.

>communism is a weird ass construct that inevitably leads to deaths of millions of people
That is absolutely not what communistic idea is

GOOD post.

Has there ever been a communist country on earth?

>starving people have to literally give the state every last grain because its state property
>oh well theyre not victims of the system yknow that's just how it works
You FUCKING PRIVILEGED YANK COMMIES DISGUST ME. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD IT IS IN THE US. GO DRINK SOME STARBUCKS AND READ SOME SOLZHENITSIN FOR CHRISTS SAKE.

No. There was a dictatorship of the proletariat briefly in Russia but it soon withered and capital reasserted itself due to the failure of the world revolution. Communism cannot exist in isolation. It grows out of capitalism, so communism must be a global system just like capitalism.

you are a horrible human

you are denying reality

>What's retarded is that asserting that capitalism is the 'natural order' when humanity has existed for a million years and has existed under capitalism for about 500 at most.
The only thing that has changed is the technology and hence the amount of trade. The principle of free trade stays the same.
>just a prison
read Solzhenitsyn and learn something
That's like saying concentration camps were happy picrelated family camps.

Define communism then, please.
>That is absolutely not what communistic idea is
I am not saying that it is what its idea. What I am saying is that underlying ideology will inevitably lead to the deaths of millions of people.

they do tho, because the USA prison system is fucked

it doesnt mean that the GuLAG wasnt a horrible system meant to indoctrinate huge masses of people for the sole reason of showing that "communism works". yes, that was the sole purpose of it, and that's why the numbers were so enormous

How can this system come about?

I don't get the bottom part

>The difference is that capitalism is a natural order of things

What the fuck am I reading?

>the USA prison system is fucked
its really not given our situation get a clue

>The negation of capitalism
This is literally every system that is not capitalism.

>The abolition of economic classes (which isn't the same as 'everyone is exactly the same').
What is the difference between two people in such a system? (Apart from race/age/gender etc)

russky commies are just as demeaning and racist as the "ebil capitalist wh*Te pigs"

it's easy being accepting and tolerant when you slaughtered all you minorities in the 30's and now all you have is uniform slavs

>muh Solzhenitsyn
>this one book by this one rabid-anticommunist is the definitive account of the Soviet system

>The only thing that has changed is the technology and hence the amount of trade. The principle of free trade stays the same.

No. For the vast majority of human history production was not geared towards exchange (sale on the market). It was either produced for immediate use (subsistence farming) or for paying taxes and such. Markets are older, but they were not the dominant mode of production, so humans by and large did not live under capitalism.
>read Solzhenitsyn and learn something
See above on Solzhenitsyn. One incredibly biased Russian is not the ultimate authority on the gulag or soviet history in general.

>Define communism then, please.
Proletarian revolution.

...

Communism has never worked

Then read the Black book of communism. Or Koestler. We have really good movie on the communist system in Hungary called The witness (A tanú). It's witty and instructive at the same time.

Yes, revolution but for that to happen you need people who are for that cause. Is it the proletariat who revolt? Is everyone a potential proletariat or just a majority? Will this revolution be peaceful? You also said that communism grows out of capitalism, and capitalism inst natural. Wouldn't that make communism unnatural as well?

>even dead Stalin is laffin

This is a very good pic thanks for sharing

K

it will never cease to amaze me how willfully unaware you have to be of human nature to think communism in any form or fashion will work

>Then read the Black book of communism.
lol. That's where the sacred '100 million' number comes from, right?

The proletariat revolt when material conditions become intolerable. We don't all need to be convinced communists for it to happen (and that's the case in all revolutions).
>You also said that communism grows out of capitalism, and capitalism inst natural. Wouldn't that make communism unnatural as well?
I just meant that capitalism isn't somehow the transhistorical, 'real' state of humanity and everything else a deviation, not that it's somehow unntatural.
oh shit you did it. you absolute madman, you absolutely BTFO'd communism

Well, you obviously haven't read it. Not having read that work and discussing communism is like not having read Capital by Marx and discussing communism.

>Markets are older, but they were not the dominant mode of production
This is what I said. The amount of trade has become bigger but the underlying principle of free trade hasn't changed. People just work specialised jobs because of technology.

A system where people who work harder get more is fair and natural

Sumeria, Egypt, Greece, Byzantines all practiced capitalism and private ownership. It must tell you something when the basest forms of civilization follows the concept of private ownership and competition in the market place.

Also kill yourself. Unironically.

>>Then read the Black book of communism.
>lol. That's where the sacred '100 million' number comes from, right?
Don't you think when you have to argue about things like "nah it wasnt actually 100million dead people it's just 80 million" you are way beyond anything acceptable? Even if you consider that living conditions in the USSR were bad, this rate of mortality cannot be justified. It just cant.

>The proletariat revolt when material conditions become intolerable.
People revolt because they run out of options. That's what happened in your cunt when Trump was elected. If bad conditions meant an automatic communist revolution, then Bernie wouldve won (inb4 hes not communist, i know, but hes the closest to being one). But alas, people just do whatever they perceive as something that can change their situation. Yes, in 1918's Russia, that meant communism.

I can't even imagine how retarded you have to be to believe that

>when conditions become intolerable
When global conditions become tolerable but, as you said
>we don't all need to be convinced communists
So if there are enought "proletarian dictatorships" it might happen.
Also lets assume it is global but once again not all agree, then would this not create a hierarchy or is that not the same as economic class?

*intolerable but

>>>/Luhanks/

Have you read Capital?
>This is what I said. The amount of trade has become bigger but the underlying principle of free trade hasn't changed. People just work specialised jobs because of technology.

Just 'markets exist somewhere' isn't capitalism, when the vast majority of humanity doesn't participate in them and is not affected by them. It's only capitalism when commodity production becomes generalized.
>A system where people who work harder get more is fair and natural
That isn't even how capitalism works. Do you honestly think the owner of some multi-billion dollar corporation actually works millions of times harder than his workers? (however you would even quantify that).
I'll say it for the fifth time in this thread: The vast majority of people were still subsistence farmers or laborers. The vast majority of production was geared towards immediate consumption or paying a tribute of some sort. Commodity production existed but it was not GENERALIZED, which is capitalism.

Anyway the last 4000 years or so are a flash in the pan in a million years of human history, so even if all of those civilizations were capitalist it would still be wrong to claim capitalism is humanity's natural state.

>Anyway the last 4000 years or so are a flash in the pan in a million years of human history, so even if all of those civilizations were capitalist it would still be wrong to claim capitalism is humanity's natural state

>A system where people who work harder get more is fair and natural

But that's idealized and not necessarily capitalism as practiced in the USA most of the time.

The overwhelming vast majority of individuals who reach or attain a semblance of success have typically come from families of success, in one shape or form. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" myth died in the 60s when wealthy family structures were established and cemented in this country. It's indeed possible that a kid can come from immense poverty to attain wealth, but it's not the norm in society. It's a statistical fact that there exists generational poverty, e.g., that if a parent is below a certain threshold of income, their children and their children's children are typically unable to move beyond that threshold themselves without immense financial and educated assistance. This is true across the board in America, as well, for all ethnic groups/racial classifications.

When people are celebrated for overcoming immense poverty to achieve a modicum of success, they're celebrated in America because it's the exception, not necessarily the rule. Hard work is an ingredient for success, yes, but there are other factors that go into building a successful life for yourself. This idea that you JUST have to work hard for your success is just not true. There are far more complicated factors that are involved here. You're not American, though, so I understand if you're not familiar with the internal issues of our capitalist enterprise and I hold no ill will against you.

starts with Russian Commies manipulating Asian commies to fight Americans. Asians followed like idiots. When Stalin died, Mao thought he was the successor to pinko head ideology. Russians laughed at the stupid chink.

>Me, mine
>You, yours
>They, theirs

I honestly don't understand how you'll make it in this world being this blind, even your answers hint at a paranoid person with a superiority complex. Oh well, the best cure for communism is becoming rich yourself.

Who decides what's fair? Who decides what constitutes hard work? Who decides how to differentiate? Who sets the exact parameters? Who decides who gets to do what and then appraise their performance if not the market?

An ever-expanding nepotistic bureaucracy is who and that is about as reliable as a lada so snap out of it

But those who work hard get on better than those who dont. I mean for example you dont usually see the ghetto kids who didnt work hard because they get shot and die in the 20s. And that's not good. The USA could use some socialsm. And by that I mean people should not fucking die unnecessary deaths. Yes that is worth investing in. But thinking that the answer is communism is delusional at best, evil and disgusting at worst.

>you absolutely BTFO'd communism
arguing with a commushit is like trying to teach a dog aeronautical engineering, its a fruitless endeavor, theres nothing anyone on this board is going to say to convince you out of your belief in the ideology most counter-intuitive to human nature as possible

Meant for not

the vast majority of people poor here come from broken down families, this can explain 90 percent of why blacks are so messed up, 90 percent of violence, 90 percent of mental illness, its almost always the number 1 correlating factor to anything negative here.

I am not saying it is ideal, but it works and is better than every other system.

>Who decides what's fair? Who decides what constitutes hard work?
No one. That is why we let the market do the job.

>No one. That is why we let the market do the job.

Im 100% with you, i meant to reply to the retard

Besides isn't the "proletariat dictatorship" done in the name of communism, so any death caused by it is in the name of achieving communism. While "capitalist" countries aren't that way in the name of a "capitalist" ideology they are just out for themselves and family.

>Proletarian revolution.

It's a religion. It's full of prophecies about what will happen, these make up the foundation of all communist beliefs and arguments despite being completely irrelevant to non-believers and the real world. You can't change their mind because they will revert to this gospel and tell you what 'will happen' in the future. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to their book and its teaching is uninformed or brainwashed by the evil capitalists anyway.

>Source: Black book of communism
Discredited, m8

>capitalism is a natural order of things whereas communism is a weird ass construct
Jesus christ, what are they teaching in those russian schools?!

wanna try some communism?

In the capitalist West, fairytales start with "Once upon a time...". Here they start with "Very soon..."

>Communism cannot exist in isolation. It grows out of capitalism

Actually it's a parasitic system that can't exist without capitalism to steal technology and money from. That's why all commie cunts engaged in relentless theft of technology and industrial secrets from the US and Europe.

"You are building the future of your children"

Those are just Potemkin villages to impress tourists while most Chinese have Third World standards of living.

#rekt

Was expecting a mexican flag in op's post, actually.

and modern china is capitalistic desu

>Everyone had a flat, a car, a dacha
If you were willing to wait three years to buy a car that had mechanical brakes and was the size of a shoebox.

Op may be joking but he is not wrong. In USA everyone's life except the bankers' is considered indispensible. Even the astronauts are sent on missions where it is pre-planned they will be killed (2003) without telling them