What does Sup Forums think about unions?

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economics.byu.edu/frandsen/Documents/nonrandomelections2.pdf
deltafa.org/pdf_library/do unions help the economy.pdf
sole-jole.org/15566.pdf
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=5589
csun.edu/~vcecn007/publications/Unions_and_Employment_Growth.pdf
www2.gsu.edu/~ecobth/Fraser_Union_Performance.pdf
twitter.com/AnonBabble

unions coming from the internationalist socialist tradition=bad
unions based on corporatist ideas=good

I'm in a Union. I work as a Picker in a warehouse. I have no idea what I'm apart of and my job sucks because I'm the only white guy there and everyone iis a Spic and they're annoying.

a good idea gone bad

there's nothing wrong with collective bargaining

we broke up nearly every union and look at what happened - wages are stagnant, we're atomized, alone, and have no negotiating power against corporations

globalism made the irreverent.

From a union family. They're good in private sector, bad in public sector

what does Sup Forums think about maggie thatcher?

Unions are one of many institutions required to stunt the long arm of the Bourgeois.

They're doing fine in germany, few strikes in production branches, wages are fair, all worker can form a council, which a requirement for companies with 500+ workers, they broker your retirement and layoffs instead of just el bosse mandating all of that shit

This is somewhat accurate.

Public unions here are a plague on the country. Even now, after 5 years of austerity, those scumbags still get wage increases and preferential treatment at the expense of the taxpayer and the private sector.

I'll admit that I don't like unions, but sometimes they are necessary.

Unions served their purposes about 80 years ago when current socialist criticism of capitalism (that businesses exploit the workers necessarily) was actually true. Its not relative anymore though, and most end up hurting both the business and the workers. American teachers unions are a great example of this as they hurt students by making sure shitty teachers keep their jobs, implement bullshit like common core, and prevent school vouchers from being a thing, which would actually allow parents to choose where their kids went to school at if they do not have the money to move to a more affluent area with a better school district.

Based bitch

Incorrect. Perhaps In a government so indebted like Greece. World powers have no reason not to unionize both public and private sectors. Greece needs a massive overhaul and even more austerity measures.

it's a double-edge sword. unions empower the people, but can be used to destabilize the state

They taste pretty good desu.

>more austerity measures
Hell no, austerity measures and tax hikes are what got us here.
We need to cut spending drastically, and reduce corporate and income taxes. Unions need to fuck off as well, at least the public ones.

Shoulda paid more attention in school, your life wouldn't be so shitty.

I mean ffs I only did enough college to get my engineering AS at a community college for cheap, now I work as a technician making $50k/year with benefits and love my job, working around intelligent white people for the most part with some asians and indians here and there. Most being redpilled as fuck because they actually pay taxes.

Also I'm not in a union so I guess I'm against unions. I'm a big proponent of meritocracy and personal responsibility ("you reap what you sow"), so collective bargaining mostly seems like a rip off and a way to benefit the lazy because of dumb rules like seniority instead of merit, except in the most extreme examples (which are mostly from the past during the industrial revolution).

What do you think austerity is

Or you could nationalize the debt. Like you should. And yes, you do need to cut spending. But you need to understand that a nation has a baseline funding point. Go below that and you have things like garbage island ( Sorry but damn Greece, wtf ). It also has to do with the efficiency of the currency used by the government. To be frank troops should be ensuring public services are fulfilled.

>America knowing anything about unions
You do realise that just like any governing body all the big ones are corrupt as shit, and you killed off all the small ones.

>Aussie telling Americans that we know nothing.
>Big fatty mining heir controls the majority of jobs
>No one likes Mrs. Fatty.
>Unions could stop her from being so greedy.
>Aussie thinks he's smart

America confirmed better than Australia.

"Austerity" in Greece was just a list of measures increasing taxes. Our shitty governments played a part in this since they didn't want to piss off public sector leeches and decrease their wages.

I don't know about that, I'm afraid that the last 5 years have been so bad that we'll need to go back to the Drachma in order to clean up this mess. If we just cut spending and increased economic freedom back in 2010 we would be mostly okay now.

Great idea, would be fantastic if they didn't end up in bed with organised crime and trying to exert power outside of their specific workforce issues.

As it is, the corruption has ended up with them doing more harm than good in the modern day.

>unions coming from the internationalist socialist tradition=bad
please explain burger

Leave EU
Nationalize debt
Go back to old currency
Cut spending
Profit

It's simple.

Hence why unions should be transparent. Society must remind union members that they are apart of something bigger than themselves.

are you that fang faced cunt in the garbage bag factory in PA? i always wanted to fuck you before i quit that shit after 2 days.

Unions are leftist, Marxist garbage. Muh power to the people. Strikes are retarded and shouldn't be given legal protection by the government.

You don't want to do your job for this much pay? Fine, fuck off. I'll get someone else.

>there's nothing wrong with collective bargaining
there is when its forced. If I want to work as a self employed Electrician I am forced to join or I cannot work.

They're very much necessary to protect workers rights and not end enslaved like in the Industrial Revolution.

Necessary evil.
I personally could do without them, but I also know that majority of people are simply too stupid to make sure their employer doesn't rip them off.

Once upon a time they were fine. Now they're just legal extortion rackets.

>majority of people are simply too stupid to make sure their employer doesn't rip them off
This is true but fuck 'em. Natural selection.

>fuck 'em
I prefer having a peaceful society, thank you. Having a large, happy and stupid working class backed by the unions beats having a large unhappy poor population. The latter tends to lead to an increase in crime and riots. Just look at all the chimpouts happening recently.

The irony here is that unions are responsible for chasing the jobs in current chimpout areas away. NAFTA and increased wages were supported by unions which increasingly led to the shift away from an American industrial base to an import economy.

It's not about being stupid.
It's about being able to negotiate on equal terms.
If you are alone and have a disagreement with your employer about your pay/working conditions/etc. you can't do much because he will just fire you as you are only 1 worker. However if you are part of a union you have collective bargaining power and can cause as much damage to the employer by all agreeing to go on strike or something similar as the employer can do to the workers by firing them.

being in union sounds like a pretty good deal until you're layed off 500 hours before you're eligible for full pension benefits so you only get half

And then the employer brings in scabs and suddenly your strike was for fucking nothing

Shit, and largely obsolete. Public sector unions should not exist.

Now, Its nothing more than extorting money from the working man and then giving that money to politicians and things that the worker may or may not support and lining the pockets of the union bosses. Unions are also a huge tool used by the left to further their shit agenda.

Also, i have seen large unions like the SEIU, AFLCIO march lockstep with communists, support unconstitutional legislation/laws and tyrants. fuck them.

The same thing sort of happened here on a smaller scale. The difference is that the people working in the factories were old and are now retired, and the younger generation is better educated, thanks to tax-funded education, and has found other jobs.

They beat confederacies.

>Unions are leftist, Marxist garbage. Muh power to the people. Strikes are retarded and shouldn't be given legal protection by the government.
It's free market thought :DDDDDD
It isn't that easy to hire 100s of qualified workers in a short period of time.

cunt, shame she survived brighton

Very good, except for traitorous unions that refuse to genuinely protect their workers and sell out for scraps.

Scabs are utter fucking scum

Don't have a problem with them, so long as they don't receive any special power.

But public sector unions create a dangerous conflict of interest and as a consequence, receive special power.

Good you wage cutting mexican

Unions were useful and necessary for a time, now they're just bloated and corrupt, i.e. Teachers, prisons guards, police, trade unions

unions are k , but right now they are corrupt and managed poorly

>le high education maymay

you do realize job snobbery is the reason we need immigration right? nobody cares to work low skill jobs because its looked down upon

I have greater respect for a white plumber than some white doctor

No that's because whites aint fucking enough. Whites care more about saving a dime than keeping their country

In Denmark at least we have plenty of high educated people who refuse to work low skill jobs even though job less because it is "beneath their status", which is only allowed thanks to general high educational level and welfare.
So we need immigrants to work in the fields and in the warehouses etc.

It is fucking sickening.

No, you don't need immigrants. The employers want immigrants because they don't want to raise the wages enough to get people interested.

adding to, with welfare, early retirement etc. about 30 % of the danish population (in working age) is living on the state.

Snake eating its own tail.

Public unions are the puppets of the democrats that pander to them with benefits but pocket the money or use it on other programs.
Now people hate the pension crises, blame the unions when it was always the scumbag politicians the unions had to vote for to stay around.
Now people would rather do it on their own when it was the unions that got it to a point where it is now worth doing.
Disrespectful. Sad.

They've transformed into something awful, but in general I have no problem with unions.

Having one voice to talk to management is just economical.

Public sector Unions are nothing but bad news though. Hell even king liberal FDR knew that.

...so if you take in immigrants, wouldn't they do the same? Live on the state and refuse to work?

>le low wages maymay

It is still better than being on welfare and you keep your mental health intact, working on social contacts etc.

If you force higher wages more companies will just relocate to Poland or China

no , the fuckin employers are picky , couldnt even get a job to offload boxes of bullshit dude, not because of ineptitude but just bc the employers look for too much

Underrated

Your economy does not rely on low skill, low paid workers. If it did it the majority would have been already outsourced.

the basic idea of unions is good but they inevitably end up as mouthpieces that don't actually help anyone but leftist political parties

They are really bad.
Unionized business hires less workers and has a higher chance of going bankrupt.
economics.byu.edu/frandsen/Documents/nonrandomelections2.pdf

American unions costed american taxpayers trillions of dollars.
deltafa.org/pdf_library/do unions help the economy.pdf

Unions actually don't make workers job safer/easier/better contrary to popular belief.
sole-jole.org/15566.pdf

For each 4 union members in business, the 5th worker loses his job, damage that unions made to America's economics is estimated around $50 billions.
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=5589

Unions prevent economic recovery after recession.
csun.edu/~vcecn007/publications/Unions_and_Employment_Growth.pdf

Unions slow down productivity, profits and investment of business growth
www2.gsu.edu/~ecobth/Fraser_Union_Performance.pdf

Not to mention that here in America unions serve 1 purpose: donate trillions of $ to democrats and then complain about ebil republicans.

And in 1960 in Sweden union leaders made a plot with evil top 1% to trap poor workers in their poverty without any chance of getting rich(i'm too lazy to look for a link, sorry)

>Good you wage cutting mexican

Except you can't move fields. Also, what said.
All the low-skill work that can be outsourced already is. The reason farms haven't been outsourced is because they can't be. Just about all the rest of low-skill jobs are in the service industry, and you can't relocate those either. Good luck ordering food when your waiter is in China.

well that is also true but we have plenty of cases in Denmark where unemployed people refusing work in a mart because they have a higher (humanities // liberal arts) education, but can't find a job because we educate too many of them (thanks free education)

Each time I go to a mart to shop at least 50 % of those working there are shitskins, no matter where I go.

Just finished trade school might go into the union good pay

No fields can't, but our slaughter houses are all moving to Poland f.example.

Doesn't Lufthansa go on strike every year? Not production but still expensive.

or even Germany because danish workers demand too much in wages-

They should be neither aided nor penalized by The State.

you're a fool if you don't. strength in numbers.

And that is a problem because?
As far as I can see, the problem is fixing itself. No low-skilled labor force -> industries needing it move elsewhere -> no need for low-skilled labor force -> no need to import sand niggers to shit up your country

The corporations already have their own union. It's called "The Government". Their union helps them out pretty good.

Private unions are fine.

Public unions are cancer.

It's funny seeing thousands of jobs lost because unions want more money and benefits.

Also when they vote Democrat only for their jobs to be sent overseas or next door because of Democrat supported bills. Carrier and Nabisco are some recent happenings.

They are fine up until the government gets involved.

Because you simply don't take a 50 year old slaughterhouse worker and reeducate him to work in a shopping mart.

Unions have gone way too far. In oz a labourer or a stevedore is on 150k. So it just means cuck vs cuckservative is millionaires vs billionaires.

That said the rich and the bankers have gone way too far too.

Another reason for alt right.

asking out of ignorance here but what are examples of both? Whats the difference?

unions are terrorist organizations.

Company with unions = better pay and benefits
Company without union = walmart

And what do you think happens if you take in tons of sandniggers who haven't heard of concepts like "worker's rights" or "women's rights" and will work for half the pay?

The same thing happened in here, you know. The paper industry moved out and left a hell of a lot of 50+ yo's jobless. So what'd we do? Import a million niggers? No.
We bit our teeth and went through the lean years caused by it. Now they're behind us and there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Besides, importing cheap labor is just a temporary solution to the problem. Works for a few years until they, or those of them who aren't complete niggers and actually work, start demanding higher wages. Why? Because they can. Not worth the side effects of having islamists spontaneously combusting like in Sweden.

They would have moved anyways.
It will be almost always cheaper to produce simple things in a country with lower living standards unless you have high tariffs.

Companies with unions also have higher prices.

Dead. And the fact that they are dead has diminished the relevance of the democratic party to whites. Unless you are a woman fearing abortion rights loss, or a minority, there is ZERO reason to vote Democrat anymore.

>Labourer or a stevedore is on 150k
>Acting as if that's a bad thing
Are you telling my you don't want to earn 100k a year for haulin bricks? Are you dumb cunt?

The problem is not half the pay here, the problem is that young people get educated too much not wanting to work low skill jobs that can't be moved out (like in marts etc.)

The shit skins have no qualms about working in a mart, meanwhile some liberal arts / humanities with a major in philosophy sits around wanking off because we educate about 75 % more than needed.

And they can do that thanks to welfare etc. just sitting around for years waiting for the perfect job.

The whole discussion with slaughterhouse workers was a distraction, please disregard that.

You can't treat the working man this way! One day we'll form a union and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve!

... then we'll go to far! And get corrupt and shiftless! And the Japanese will eat us alive!

> be me
> work part time job
> get paid $8 bucks an hour
> pay $8 bucks a week for my union.
> get zero benefits

Sup Forums has always been anti worker for some reason, they all think they will be billionaire business owners at some point

Isn't $100K AUD like $40K in the USD?

The solution is simple.
Cut the welfare.
Not completely, but to a level that you can live on but not very comfortably.

>I work as a technician making $50k/year

LEL. I work as a "technician", in a 1.2 billion dollar facility, and I make 100k a year with free bennies and a real pension and 6 weeks vacation. But I'm union. You dun goofed.

Private union: at a place of business
ex. at a random construction company
Public union: at a state/federal institution
ex. cops
not 100% sure so don't take this as absolute

>Sup Forums likes a candidate who wants to keep medicare and lift taxes on the working class but they don't support my communism so they are anti-worker a hurrr durrrr

Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

Responding to posters who shat on public unions. CT here.

I get your frustrations as tax payers and I can't speak to what your dealing with if you're not burgers. I don't know what your public unions are like but if they're anything like your governments may God have mercy on you.

In burgerland we faced a lot of bad economies that hit the public coffers pretty bad. A lot of state budgets were treading water or fucking under it. The public unions were faced with politicians who were unwilling or unable to raise taxes on wealthy citizens or business so they were given a choice: layoffs or furloughs and wage cuts. The union workers in my state, already underpaid and overworked in unsafely understaffed fields (think police, firemen, emts, teachers, etc.) by national standards, rebelled against either notion and threatened strikes or sick-outs. God forbid a police officer or a teacher made a living wage while also having to buy all their own equipment on top of it.

So the states offered better benefits, retirement and health, in exchange for no raises and lower pay for people entering public work. The payoff was my states governorship went from the democrats to the republicans who gave tax cuts to the rich and didn't fund the pensions.

So now the pensions are bankrupt, the budget is fucked, and lot of people are facing the prospect of retiring without income because the government can just write them off. Our governor is also just closing down departments in health and human services and telling the people you can have care for the mentally ill or tax breaks. Of course the people chose tax breaks. And of course the tax payers are blaming the unions for the shitty bridges, roads full of potholes, shortages of police officers and bad teachers.

no public sector unions. Fuck them

Gee thanks for that pearl of wisdom, John.

Or maybe it's because historically Americans have the kind of work ethic that prohibits us from blaming others for our lack of success. We're the descendants of the folks who weren't content to sit around and hope their lives improved or their governments got better. We're the ones who left. The ones who decided to build something new.

If you're poor it's because you're not applying yourself enough. Not because the powers-that-be are conspiring against you.

Socialism has been the greatest exploiter of the proletariat every time it has been implemented.