"When you make people think, they like you. When you make Sup Forums think, they hate you."

>"When you make people think, they like you. When you make Sup Forums think, they hate you."

- r/TheDonald, 2015

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youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg
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If you have any morals you choose atheism and if you find yourself in eternal suffering you do so in
defiance of an immoral and petty god.

...

God is dead, and we killed him.

Death scares me.

this sic semper fi tyranus

listen
youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

Pascal's wager is the ultimate cowardice.

You can't lawyer your way into a heaven you don't honestly believe in.

It's the same logical error that leads people to believe confession before death is enough. As if confessing, and not actually feeling remorse, for sin is enough.

>F-fuck you god, ill just burn in hell for eternity That will show you!

agnosticism is the only scientific solution to the religious questions

you are just cherry picking to fit your own feel good idea of the religion. according to the church confessing like that does absolve people whenever they say it does.

yeah, sorry it's so hard for you to imagine someone with a modicum of dignity and self respect and won't just grovel at the feet of a god that maliciously causes massive suffering to people that won't debase themselves worshiping them, not to mention child cancer and a billion other fucked awful things that disqualify your god from worthy of worship

Isn't Pascal's Wager inherently flawed in that if you're a "false believer" as in believing just to achieve a goal or for a reward, then you are considered a non-believer? I mean by acknowledging Pascal's Wager and basing your belief on it, no matter how far you later put it from your mind, you're essentially a pretender.

>atheism is trash and faggotshit

YOU'RE RIGHT!

>dedicating your way of living to a religion is "nothing"

Im sorry but you are just to stupid. You are literally proving god right.

how am I proving god right? right about what?

please, I feel like Ive struck oil on your post, I just know there's a whole well of stupid beneath ready to start flowing from the person who thought your post was logical.

Agnosticism refers to what you know, not what you believe. I really wish people would learn the definition of words before they use them.

its impossible to force yourself to believe in god anyway without brainwashing. I hope one day I will find reason to become christian and church >>>>>>> atheists for society.

I'm not cherry picking. Exactly the opposite. Selling indulgences is exactly the kind of corruption that has led to the spiritual destruction of the church, and confession without real atonement and regret for one's sinful behavior is likewise a corruption of the church.

A legalistic belief that attempts to cover the metaphysical spread is grift.

Is there anything more retarded than a christcük

>logical
it's not like the post he was replying to was logical, you were just spouting off the emotional formulation of the problem of evil

>Pascals wager

How about you try a logical argument next time and provide evidence for your magical entity.

You are approaching god as if he were a common mortal. God in the sense of any of the religion of middle east birth is absolute power. Its one thing to tell a king to fuck off, but telling god to fuck off is worse than being a jew in a concentration camp and telling the warden you are to tired to keep shoveling other jews in to the ovens. Proving that the ovens is the best place for you.

So what about the tens of thousands of other religions? Pascal is kind of a retard for not taking those into consideration.

Let the forces that be or not decide our fate after death, we should be concerned with the here and now and worry about assuring the survival of humanity. The more we question about what lies beyond the grave only makes it all the more agonizing upon our demise as regret sets in that we may have not followed some unwritten rule or some bullshit and we fear oncoming punishment as a result because of said rule.

Act moral not for reward or punishment, but preservation of society so you can live in it.

Actually, it takes brainwashing to not believe in god.

I'm Catholic, and, yeah, I think it's kind of weird. Certainly shouldn't be the entirety of your faith.

But it touches on a good point: namely, if there IS a creator of the universe, who became a man, and died for you, and loves you infinitely, then don't you owe it not only to Him but to yourself to at least be open, to read the arguments put forth by theologians and philosophers, to at least attempt prayer?

I just find it sad we live in a world where people will play vidya or watch TV for 10 hours a day but won't put, say, 1 hr a week in to try and connect with God, to investigate Christianity.

I'm actually a convert from atheism, and it took me from about age 19 to age 24 to finally pull the trigger on becoming a Catholic. It mainly happened because I was curious, and kept reading, and reading, and reading, which soon lead to going to Mass (purely as an academic exercise at first, or so I told myself) until finally converting. I didn't go super hardcore monk-mode, I didn't give up TV and movies, I was actually in a long term relationship for most of it, but I'd just read a little bit each week.

So, TLDR, Pascal's Wager isn't a good reason to have faith in Jesus Christ (or anything), but it does articulate pretty well the importance of at least giving Christianity a fair shake.

>Pascal's Wager
>Implying there is only one kind of "belief"

Go back to picking tomatoes Carlos

Agnosticism isn't a middle-man/mutually-exclusive.

I don't know why you imbeciles keep pretending it is.

>Act moral
good luck defining what this is objectively without invoking the concept of God to ground morality in.

my post was completely logical. Just because you are dumb enough to believe whatever bullshit mental acrobatics like 'self determination' that are used to justify an omnipotent god allowing evil to exist doesn't mean people who recognize it as bullshit are illogical.

let me break it down:

A: evil exists
B: god is all powerful

so if A and B are both true, God is responsible for allowing evil to exist. As a moral person I find that objectionable and appalling. Either the God is not all powerful or he is immoral, either way he is either lying or evil.

There's nothing irrational or emotional about it unless you believe the only moral authority is god, in which you are cucked as fuck.

>an immoral and petty god.
might makes right
If you are unable to challenge God's morality throwing a temper tantrum is not going to do you any good

why would an allmighty entity desperetaly want me to believe in him? if he is almighty he should know there is good reason to not believe, and unless i dont do other things like murder, rape, manipulations and so on, why should he think i deserve hell for doing something for that i have a good reason?

or you want to tell me that all atheists are evil and thus belong in hell. then you are just stupid

Pic related is a far better argument for Christianity.

Behaving in a way that benefits society is closely tied to a human behavior called empathy. Not your imaginary father figure dangling a carrot in front of your slave face in order to get you to behave.

Fuck pascal's wager.
It's overly simplified in favour of christianity.

What says that God is not someone who only lets elvis-impersonators into heaven while letting everyone else burn?

Or god is a god that only lets atheists into heaven...

>he should know there is good reason to not believe,
What is that?

>dont do other things like murder, rape, manipulations and so on, why should he think i deserve hell
All men have sinned and none are worthy of hell without Jesus Christ

why would that be difficult to do at all?
if anything placing moral authority in a debatable interpretation of an unseen god and ancient desert books leave way more ambiguity about defining morals, as evidenced by hundreds of thousands killing in the name.

Thats not even an argument

Thats just worst hitchens having one of his characteristic failures of imagination

It translates into tje following:
>i cant handle the idea of christianity not being true therefore it is true

Its even less of an argument than pascals wager

>As a moral person I find that objectionable and appalling.
exactly, you're making an emotional argument
>this makes me mad/sad
instead of showing an actual logical contradiction between the existence of God and evil.
because you can't, because you can't know whether or not God has morally sufficient reason for permitting pain and suffering, or demonstrate that it's not possible that He could.

You make some fair points. I'm an atheist but I have nothing against religious people. I believe that if religion helps you in your life then that's a net positive and there's no reason to try and dissuade someone from that path.

Regarding Pascal's Wager, sure if it's just a stepping stone that leads into a deeper acceptance or understanding then that's one thing, but I personally know people who were atheists but now claim they're Christians because "lul Pascals Wager why not!?" and those types of people I think are pretenders and would be judged as non-believers should judgement ever befall them.

>that benefits society
No its not
Societies that survived are the ones that raped and murdered their neighbors

Society isn't global. Society can be your tribe, your family, your group of most relevance.

What kind of God damns people to eternity for not believing in him on bad evidence?

It's not just that there's little-to-no evidence of God, it's even worse - the "evidence" for him is faulty and defies common sense. Just take the Bible for instance

>God says world is only 7000 years old
>radiation dating proves it's millions

>God says there was a global flood
>no indication this ever happened

>God says two of every animal were crowded on a small boat
>literally impossible given the measurements for the boat

>God says the Jews had a mass exodus from Egypt to Palestine
>Israeli archeology literally proves this never happened

>God sends himself to save the world
>only performs cheap magic tricks that the liars and frauds before and after him also performed

>God says Satan exists and constantly meddles in the world of men
>Except for in the age of photography and verification, of course

It baffles me how bankrupt of common sense one has to be to believe this crap

Are all beliefs going to lead to "eternal joy," or only the belief practiced by the creator of this memelet?

>why would that be difficult to do at all?
What is an objective test for something that is moral or not
>as evidenced by hundreds of thousands killing in the name.
Which if they actually followed the bible they would not do

you're conflating moral epistemology and moral ontology, my dude.

I thought the pope said that believing in God wasn't mandatory to get into heaven.

>proves
You cant prove anything
Naturalism requires faith

fix'd

There is no tangible evidence for the existence of God(s).

>canadian
>image.jpg
>believes shitty buzzfeed science headlines
>""common sense""

yep, it's a leaf

It is about faith

As long as I have agency over my own brain I can challenge god's morality. It doesn't matter what god does to punish me because my spirit still defies god (honestly it's ironic that you don't see how that is possible, considering the dualism and shit your whole fucking religion is about lamo). >rowing a temper tantrum is not going to do you any good
sure it would, I would get to keep my self respect and dignity knowing I am morally right and not bowing to this evil entity.

Do you know a single thing about non-violent resistance? Do you know understand the concept of sacrifice for a moral imperative? I really think this shouldn't be too hard for you to grasp, you know, what with Jesus and shit..

What's petty?

>you can't prove anything
>ameridiot education

You can literally crunch the numbers and prove beyond a doubt that Noah's ark story is completely impossible, you fucking mongoloid. You can also do carbon-dating and radiation dating experiments that prove the world is millions of years old. Why are christfags so pathetic?

Going to respond to any of my points, or just going to meme you butt hurt christfag?

God created my mind and showed me sufficient evidence to prove his existence, in fact he proved that prior to the arrival of Jesus he condemned every human to "eternal suffering", the vikings could've been saved if they'd been shown the light. But nah let's just start the religion in 1 spot. Every native american was condemned to hell prior to the arrival of europeans.

>I really think this shouldn't be too hard for you to grasp, you know, what with Jesus and shit..
Because Jesus is mightier than anything worldly whatever people do to you in this life will not matter because he judges you in the end

Genociding your own planet because of gay orgies is a great start.

>You can literally crunch the numbers and prove beyond a doubt that Noah's ark story is completely impossible,
No you cant
>You can also do carbon-dating and radiation dating experiments that prove the world is millions of years old.
How can you prove God did not create pre decayed material?

Damn... wow rly makes u think... he has a point, pol...

Why is genocide immoral?

There is measurably not enough water on the planet frozen or otherwise to flood the entire planet.

The burden of proof lies upon you to provide sufficient evidence that God created those materials rather than someone else p[roving that he did not.

Well, in general terms killing lots of people is bad because you're going to have a lot of collateral damage from innocent people.

what the fuck kind of rebuttal is this?

You are not arguing anything, you are just praising jesus in some cringy non sequitur. are you the well spring of stupid I detected earlier? I imagined there would at least me something that could be dissected and laughed at. I can't dissect this. It's basically cartoonish. You know how people complain about political comics with the "i am silly" panel? you post is that panel right now.

>There is measurably not enough water on the planet frozen or otherwise to flood the entire planet.
God is above the laws of physics he can create and remove water
>The burden of proof lies upon you to provide sufficient evidence that God
I never said I could prove it
I said you cant disprove it
>innocent
Who defines who is innocent?

The christian idea of non violence still relies on God's power in the end
Might makes right

the good reason to not believe is that he never gave me a reason to start believing in the first place

if the sins i have commited are enough to get me into hell that god probably isnt worthy of being prayed to. if i deserve hell because of sins other people commited he definitely doesnt deserve to be prayed upon

faith without any reason is stupid naivity. not the good kind of naivity which lets good spread upon the world, but the stupid one which will get you screwed over

that has nothing to do with anything I have said. for fucks sake it's like you guys are literally retarded.

>the good reason to not believe is that he never gave me a reason to start believing in the first place
The existence of the world
>if the sins i have commited are enough to get me into hell that god probably isnt worthy of being prayed to.
And your temper tantrum will accomplish nothing

That is true too.

You said Christians should understand nonviolence
Christian nonviolence is about letting God judge your enemies
>faith without any reason is stupid naivity.
and what is the reason for believing in naturalism?

Great so I can just wager that every religion/philosophy is correct at the same time then I'll be good'

Lolz fuck that all you retards can suck my ass, if you believe in some dumb shit that's too bad because it's all unverifiable, LITERALLY called the SUPERNATURAL because it CANT be DETECTED by SCIENCE/OBSERVATION. If your religion is real it is no longer super natural but rather a scientific and verifiable principle

Faith:

Where you open up for the possibility of infinitly many different combinations of gods, but you claim to know specifically which one is the single one that is real because you saw something that resembled a face on a piece of toast.

the Noah's ark story is probably an exaggerated account of a massive tsunami happening somewhere on the Mediterranean coast, with some dude saving some of his livestock on a boat. The Minoan eruption is often speculated to be the basis of the myth, as it was a massive volcanic event and is old enough that it could have been passed down as oral tradition... for the Minoans it certainly was "the end of the world" and it caused flooding as far as Egypt's coastline.

This square is missing a row and column (for wrong deity) and the nothing for belief is incorrect (since you end up paying while you live).

the existence of the world isnt a proof that god exists. there are other theories which try to take into account our observations and knowledge, and thus is more worthy of our belief than the theory that god created it without any evidence.

also saying my oppinion isnt a temper tentrum. a temper tantrum would be like "fucking god i hate this shitface hope he burns in hell where he put satan", i just calmly explained that if i go to hell for my sins he wasnt worthy being praised with from the beginning. and an eternety in hell wouldnt change anything, just as going to prison doesnt mean i did something wrong since it could be also unfair laws being the reason

Pascal's wager has been irrelevant for years, Christianity is not the only other option, you cannot play your chances in any way with the unknown

I said nonviolinet resistance, it's not a christian principle, it's the method of protest used by everyone from gahandi to MLK, you are class A retarded. Try again dumbass.

>>the good reason to not believe is that he never gave me a reason to start believing in the first place
no, but again it's cute to watch you retards argue about shit I didn't say.

Belief is irrelevant, it's his immoral actions, like damning people for not worshiping him or believing in him (and earthquakes, child cancer, literally millions of awful things) that make him immoral.

My 'temper tantrum' is not about accomplishing things, it's about being true to moral principles that actually make sense and not groveling like a bitch. The fact you can't understand that is pathetic.

Just keep on doing what they told you I guess dumbasses.

Pretty sure there's one choice that will bring you rewards in this life as well as the (possible) next one...

pic related.

That's a pretty good argument. Do you have one for the problem of free will's incompatibility with omniscience?

>”Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest ‘He knows’, then it necessarily follows that man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God’s knowledge would be imperfect

...

>the problem of free will's incompatibility with omniscience?
that's real simple, it's not incompatible, it just means god is evil

>tfw islam is right and you get obliterated for being christian

>mfw god created my soul specifically to be damned to hell for moral reasons

Shlomo please

forgot my face

Pascal's wager: believe in every single god ever dreamed up on the off chance one of them is real

too bad lots of those gods forbid you to believe in others

What if the god hates the beliefs of most believers? Which God are you taking about?

You might be seen more favorably if you never worshipped a god than if you worshipped the wrong one.

I hate this "eternal suffering" meme
If god really made us then he made us the way we are and if we question his existence then this is how its supposed to be.

And if he really did exist and wanted us to believe in him he'd actually show himself oh i don't know, in 21 century when it would be easy to document his existence and prove it?

I hope Christianity is true just so every single one of you burns in hell forever and ever, especially the devout Christians among you

Fuck you

I hate you

I hope you all come to realize how you hate yourselves just as much as I hate you

And if Christianity is a pure falsehood like we all know it is then I hope you find the purest suffering and dread in the dying and becoming nothing

And I hope you rage and hate yourselves at everything you try to hold onto is lost forever

I hate you

Live a good life, don't waste time on worship

if you do live a good life and (the) God(s) are good then (t)He(y) will reward you for living a good life as this will surely be more important to them than worship

If (the) God(s) [is/are] evil then you would not want to worship them anyway would you?

And if there are no gods then you will be remembered fondly by your peers and you will leave a legacy worth leaving

bumping because I like reading threads like these

dickhead atheists always think they know what the other person is thinking. gosh, am i surprised?

Alternatively, live the most egotistical, but non-myopic, life possible. #YOLO

This is another option I suppose

It sounds really unfulfilling but you could take it, although I can't understand why you would

Simple: #YOLO. Why limit yourself in case there is life after death when you could instead do your best in this life and think about the next life once you have evidence it may exist?

I hate you

Everything you do will be reflected back onto you

I hope you feel fearful, because it makes me grow, I hope you feel hate, because I am hate

I hope you pray for me, I hope you do everything in your power to draw the attention of the lifeless hunk of raw belief that you call your god

You are a stain and I hope you hate yourself

That's the point of what I said
I misread you though

I thought you said "the most egotistical and myopic life possible"