What would it take to a make superman movies good again?

What would it take to a make superman movies good again?

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Man of Steel but with Superman saving a kitten out of a tree and smiling at people while Lex Luthor watches through binoculars from his skyscraper angrily shaking his fist

Reeve

Anybody who can watch the Bruce Timm cartoon and just make a live action version of it.

I think superman movies are fine now I really liked man of steel.

Which obviously means I'm a murderer according to Sup Forums

There never good outside the 1st til recently. Take off the glasses.

A screenwriter who isn't:
-Nostalgic
-Cynical
-A Batman fan
-Believes you need to switch things up to make something interesting

Tsk tsk, too much destruction porn in the fights between Superman and Darkseid. :)

I love that movie but only due to Reeves performance, the smallville and krypton scenes

>superman brainwashed by jor El for 12 years
>I'm superman now
>turning back time to save 1 person completely shitting on the you can't save everyone message from Pa Kent dying
>shit tier villain Hackmans lex is too goofy and incompetent to believably pose a threat to Reeve superman

Superman is a man of action, and no I don't mean setpieces. Make him matter in every scene, make everything he does have impact and have us care when he makes a chiice

This.

Also someone who likes the DCAU and Morrison versions of the character. Someone with a very healthy respect of Superman in general, honestly.

Also make him bold as fuck. Make him call out evil villains, corrupt businessmen, and have a very "Bring it on!" attitude. He's fucking Superman.

Basically NOT David S. Goyer and Hack Snyder.

Make him like the superman in supergirl. That would work pretty well.

embrace that the character is sometimes cheesy and old fashioned, but that that's completely ok, and that is entirely what makes Superman likable. That he isn't gritty or 'realistic." He's a paragon of Truth, Justice, and yes, the American way. He's the kind of Superhero who is even self aware that he's a bit cheesy, but keeps at it anyway because it puts a smile on people's faces and gives them something to look up to in a dark and cynical world, and see an icon of pure morality and understanding

Basically, take what Superman Rebirth is doing, and apply it to live action Superman.

Love of source material.

This.

>Completely get rid of the current DCEU.
It's too fucked up already to build a proper DC universe and Superman, better to cut their losses and start again.
>Get rid of Snyder and any of his people.
They don't understand the characters at all and have done nothing but make a fucking mess.
>Johns and Berg can stay as the Feige
Hire someone that actually gets and gives a shit about the character like Max Landis to co-write with Johns.

>sometimes cheesy and old fashioned
The keyword is "sometimes".

Just because he occasionally has those Silver Ages moments in the comics, doesn't mean he should be represented that way in all media.

Someone who doesn't think stripping elements out of Superman = "growing the character"

>"sometimes".
Would still mean 100 times more than he's been in the DCEU so far.

Nothing, MoS and BvS were good portrayals of Superman.

I dunno why people accept every version of Batman from cheesy do-gooder to grim vigilante, the but when someone tries to do something different with Superman, there's whining.

>MoS and BvS were good portrayals of Superman.

>Basically, take what Superman Rebirth is doing, and apply it to live action Superman.
Especially his FUCKING ADORABLE family scenes with Lois and Jon.

Call Man of Feel something else other then Superman and he's still a fundamentally uninteresting character.

I don't care about someone making a dark Superman. He's a 75 year old character, you can do whatever you want with him. But the character as presented on BvS was a passive plot device sacrificed at the altar of Batman and Lex Luthor and who's entire characterisation was defined by his weird relationship to Lois.

No. Sup Forums loves Man of Steel. It's just the rest of the world that thought it was meh.

>Nothing, MoS and BvS were good portrayals of Superman.
MoS had potential, although I didn't care for it. I was actually more pissed about how they handled Pa Kent than Clark.

BvS is a shitshow from top to bottom, though. Every character is ass in that, even if Affleck and Gadot tried to rise about the script and direction.

>Sup Forums loves Man of Steel
Stop projecting your bullshit.

I disagree. He was a good-hearted and idealistic man in a cynical and paranoid world. His overall story was trying to be the classic Superman, but the world not letting him. Eventually, all the negative repercussions get to him, with the Capitol bombing be the last straw, and he starts to question his worth. The scene with his dad on the mountain is the crux of it imo, where he realizes that the world is full of ambiguity, and that there sometimes are no black and white answers. That its impossible to predict the outcome of anything, and shit happens, but that shouldn't stop him from doing whats right and protecting who he values in life.

I could be completely off the mark here, but that's what I got.

>His overall story was trying to be the classic Superman, but the world not letting him.
Even the L&C TV series had him going, "I'm Superman. I'm going to do what's right regardless". It's one of the most basic parts of the character.

Who is to say that can't be changed up? One of Batman's key components is that he doesn't kill, but in the Burton films, he murders several of Joker and Penguin's men in cold blood, and no one lost their minds about it. Hell, in Batman Begins, he good as killed Ra's Al Ghul.

>He was a good-hearted and idealistic man
How about they actually show some of that?

He fucking literally never said a single word in BvS to anyone outside of the main cast. All we fucking got was a two minute montage of him silently doing his chores/saving people. There's nothing to indicate that he's idealistic or good hearted.

He's an unlikable, silent, brooding dick. and if that's your Superman then you dun fucked up big time.

You are objecting to the first part of my statement? Did sanity break out while I was away?

>t-the DCEU is actually good cus these other movies totally did it as well
If they came out today you can bet your ass people wouldn't be ok with it.

> His overall story was trying to be the classic Superman, but the world not letting him

Which could be interesting if Snyder didn't isolate the character to the point that his only genuine human contact is with his girlfriend. Every scene at the Planet is him getting into pissing contests with Perry, it honestly seems like he doesn't enjoy working there or being around his co-workers or even being "Clark Kent." It honestly feels like Snyder would have cut the entirre Kent persona if he could, that entire aspect of Supoeramn is oviosuly unintrestring to him.

And if you don't have that, his only other reactions are with Luthor, Batman and Lois. His somehow insulated form the world around him, it's an internal conflict with no external pushback beyond vague talking-head arguments. Superman comes off as a shit-in who wouldn't give the rest of the world the time of day if he didn't have his waifu.

He's like the lead in Drive without even the basic character establishment that guy had of :"likes driving cars." Superman is a hollow shell for Snyder to fill with symbolism in this universe, he's Neo from the Matrix sequels after he became The One.

How did they not show that? He was doing the right thing despite the scrutiny. Saving lives and stopping disasters. That is being idealistic and good hearted. If he wasn't, he would be like 'Well fine, fuck you too then', and not even botherhed. The reason he's angry about Batman is because he's trampling all over people's rights, even if they are criminals. The reason why he brooded was because he was constantly being shat on, which would get to anyone after awhile.

And no, he is not the Superman that I view as my ideal portrayal, but its a fresh, new take that I enjoy a great deal. I say this as someone who has had him as my favorite hero for 20+ years.

It'd help if the problems in these movies weren't a result of his actions or existence.

Whats your point? That things were okay to change before, but aren't now?

I don't understand why my cat uses a litterbox but I have to take my dog outside.
Different things are different.

Are you just quoting some shit you read? Because that was not cool. Not then. Not now.

Yes. It happened. Fans complained it was bullshit. Go look it up.

>but the world not letting him.
A superman or hell, ANY superhero, that's tied down by normal men, isn't much of a hero. The entire point of superheroes is that they're paragons that say "fuck the police" and do what they want for the good of mankind.

>Saving lives and stopping disasters.
Silently, during a two minute montage. While looking like he hates his life. That just screams good hearted and idealistic doesn't it?

They could've shown him actually you know.....interacting with people. Have him visit a children's hospital, or playing with the neighborhood kids, or helping an old lady with her shopping or literally saving a cat out of a tree. Show us that he does actually like doing what he does and that there are people out there you like him for doing those things and not for being Jesus 2.0

>The reason he's angry about Batman is because he's trampling all over people's rights, even if they are criminals.
Yet he let's him go right after he murdered a bunch of people and rampaged through the city.

>its a fresh, new take that I enjoy a great deal.
Do you know why, in almost 80 years of constant stories we've never had a 'good guy' version of Superman that's been this dark and unlikable? Because it's a fucking stupid idea.

lmao

Sup Forums hates man of steel with a frothing passion, which is disappointing since it is really pretty good, a few issues aside

>One of Batman's key components is that he doesn't kill
No it isn't, That's not a important or essential part of the character.

Read a comic.

...

Get Zack Snyder to direct them.

>Tec #30
>literally 4th appearance of Batman
>first time he's even called Batman instead of Bat-Man
Congrats user. You sure showed me.

People will get mad and compare it to New52. Try again,

>Batman existed before his no-kill rule
>Therefore the no-kill rule is not an essential part of the character
It's simple logic really.

>"I'm Superman. I'm going to do what's right regardless".
And he did, didn't he? When did he not?

Then why post a gritty version of Superman?

If it looks like Toriyama wrote it, it's not Superman. Superman involved in a punch fest is the laziest way to do a Superman story. Cut down on the action and build Superman's character more, not just Clark's. Show losh, Supergirl, Krypto and Mon-el as a part of Superman's extended family, along with Perry, Lois and Jimmy. Superman is man straight out of mythology, so make the story just as mythological. Make it a slice of life movie about Superman instead of a mindless action movie, with Superman solving problems and saving the day through his intelligence.

>If it looks like Toriyama wrote it, it's not Superman
But Toriyama has a sense of humor. Sure, he lost it a bit during the Cell saga, but he got it back with Gohan doing his Great Saiya Man shtick.
Really, these recent Superman movies could have used some Toriyama humor.

Cavill is fine, his character was the only good thing about BvS and I'm really looking forward to more of him plus he looks like a John Byrne drawing

Yes he was depressed in BvS but he still saved people and ended up sacrificing for humanity even though a lot of them treated him like shit

And MoS was amazing

>that flight scene
>that world engine breaking
>dem cavill smiles

I'm so goddamn excited for MoS 2 especially if they are making it a bit lighter.

It probably helps that Byrnes Man of Steel, Birthright and Earth One series are some of my favourite superman stories. I'm all for a more hands on Golden age type superman, we have had plenty of Donner like stuff and even have a Donner supes in the Supergirl show

Remember that before MoS everyone whined that Superman never punched anyone in returns which is why the big fight was there

>>superman brainwashed by jor El for 12 years
>>I'm superman now

I don't get why more people don't take issue with that. Maybe because it's Brando or whatever.

Why do people say this? Isn't it insanely obvious that DBZ was influenced by Superman and not the other way around?

Because it's Donner/Reeve

He gives up his superpowers to get laid in superman 2 and erases lois' memory with a kiss but people ignore that too

Superman didn't always use brutal strength to solve problems. That's how they could get a guy who could sneeze out galaxies to work. Morrison and Moore captured it well in their homages to pre crisis Superman. DBZ was influenced more by Superman's origin than the actual stories.

A miracle

>Superman didn't always use brutal strength to solve problems.

Yeah, but he did use "bullshit random power with the word 'super' appended to it" quite a bit to solve those problems.

I mean, that's basically what Superman is to begin with

Extra points if Superman looks right at luthor and winks at him every time

I'm talking more about the bronze age. There are even modern Superman comics where he doesn't resort to a brawl, but they are very few due to DC not putting their good writers on Superbooks anymore. Even for the silver age, unless your source is random out of context panels, it didn't happen. Most silver age Superman comics weren't even villain of the month.

Basically this. But DC and Marvel capeshit will always boil down to summer action flicks now.

Yeah, Reeve..

These films need another miracle..

They need a Rebirth, more like it.

There was nothing wrong with Morrison's nu52 Superman.

Idk about making it a slice of life movie per se, but this is a great idea otherwise. There are so many elements to the Superman mythos that have yet to be properly introduced into the silver screen.

you should actually read Rebirth if you think Rebirth Superman is "gritty"

>There was nothing wrong with Morrison's nu52 Superman.
Of course, but that doesn't mean people won't complain. Man of Steel was great and people complained about that. Doing it this way will make them even more liable to call him "edgy."

I know user but why oh why are you describing Shazam right now, this is supes thread.

>Captain Marvel
>a BIT cheesy

Nigger, this here is Captain Marvel; youtube.com/watch?v=K6dZSWeVKZk

Which is why I like him. Clark's my favorite, but Billy's gold too.

Superman's villains are long overdue for some LEGIT revamps
Not edgy replacements, easily-forgotten enemies, and failed attempts at fixing continuity fuck-ups

Which ones are you looking at, user? Given that the only villain who still feels relevant to me is Lex Luthor, I agree, but I'd like to hear more.

Specifically a bunch of the 'classics'. Brainiac, Metallo, Parasite, etc.

Brainiac needs a consistent backstory. Saying that THIS Brainiac or THAT Brainiac was actually just a probe or an imitator all along is for the fucking birds
Metallo is either an ineffectual muscleman or a weird autist sociopath
This guy is an advanced cyborg powered by LITERAL SUPERMAN DEATH
He NEEDS to be more badass
And make him actually sympathetic. He's allowed to go nuts on Superman but give him some personality beyond "i want to fuck Lois and also I'm a jock sociopath"
A lot of the time, recently, he's a soldier. Make him sympathetic. Maybe he's someone Clark or Lois or whoever might have called a friend. Maybe he's seen stuff he'd rather forget. Maybe he's A BADASS
so when he gets turned into an unfeeling super-cyborg with a kryptonite heart, it's all the more striking
Give the nigga a character arc


Basically Superman has a lot of villains that are basically just thugs and that needs to change

you really don't know much about batman if this is your opinion

someone already brought this up, but look at the Superman Animated series. It had consistently decent writing for characters and villains.

Metallo is a prisoner who gets literally poisoned by Luthor to agree to undergo the procedure that makes him a robot. when he discovers they made him a robot he goes berzerk.

I always liked the idea of Braniac as a hyper intelligent Kryptonian AI that betrayed Krypton so it could save itself.

I remember the episode where metallo was found by a pair of kids on some tropical island with amnesia and he sort of palled around with them because he didnt remember anything. that was a good episode.

Or the one where Braniac kidnaps Luthor in his own building to build him a new body

>I always liked the idea of Braniac as a hyper intelligent Kryptonian AI that betrayed Krypton so it could save itself.
I rather liked that in the sense that it rather handily explained why Jor-El was the only one to attempt to escape from Krypton (as opposed to MoS's version of "Hurr, evacuating is too hard, let's all just sit around and die instead"), but I do feel that Brainiac at his core needs to be a super-advanced alien who attacks planets and collects cities. STAS version of Brainiac may have been a completely different character for all intents and purposes.

>I do feel that Brainiac at his core needs to be a super-advanced an alien who attacks planets and collects cities

A+, user

I'd honestly rather have Brainiac come from Colu. If everything that can challenge Superman comes from Krypton that'd look fucking lame

well I mean there's a good power gap in time from when Kal El is shot in a rocket to when he becomes Superman. that's at least 20-30 years that braniac could still have been out there in space.

Let's say he failed to preserve krypton as his primary purpose, but in escaping, now considers himself able to preserve every planet, and has been collecting cities since Krypton blew up.

It can still work. Just an idea is all, since both versions of the character are pretty good in their own ways.

I have no problem his being an alien AI. Fleshy things aren't the only people.

I do feel like there's room both for the super-advanced collector of cities and a rogue Kryptonian AI is Superman's gallery. Just call it something else. Hell, you could have the two in all sorts of crazy conflict for preserving Krypton's heritage or something.

Brainiac could be the alien cyborg who collects cities
And have Eradicator be the Kryptonian AI who wants to preserve Krypton

Still be a lot less dumber than BvS

That would be good. Eradicator basically has no real purpose these days anyway. And his original idea is kinda shit anyway.

Brainiac is one of the most boring Superman villains. Keep 90s shit like Eradicator and Doomsday out. Instead use some good villains like Mr Mxyzptlk, Bizarro, Intergang and Superman revenge squad.

What's wrong with Brainiac or Doomsday?

now THATS a good idea there m8

You really mean it, user?

Both are plot devices. Brainiac not so much, but Doomsday definitely is.

I definitely agree on Doomsday, but come on, Brainiac gives you a ton of stuff to work with.

Well, then I guess that means HE'S due for a revamp, too, huh?

>Intergang
>good villains
Nice one.

Actually everyone I know supesfans, donnerfans and normies loved it

Most of co seem to loathe it

I know precisely one person outside of Sup Forums who legitimately loved it.

A number of people came out of the theater saying they loved it though, but when asked about it a few months later they were all "Nah, it wasn't really good."

it was good, but that doesnt mean it was flawless

>I mean, that's basically what Superman is to begin with

fucking pleb, that is NOT what Superman was to begin with. Have you actually read any golden age superman? He was beating up gangsters and threatening corrupt politicians.

The timm shit had more destruction than any Snyder movie.

And Snyder very obviously loves the source material, BvS was a big reverse Dark Knight Returns where Superman is the good, pure waifu and Batman is the overreacting stooge.

A Superman in line with a more modern take on Christopher Reeve's Superman, but have more villains from his actual comic. Less wholesale slaughter, and actually have him caring about people.

I would have killed to have Superman actually act like he cared about casualties in the MoS fight. So many people died from his and Zod's actions that it was almost silly that he would care about the family Zod was about to melt.

Fights that destroy a city block or cause tremors that can be felt along the east coast would have been nice, and perhaps in future movies you could build it up. A MoS like destroyed metropolis would have been appropriate in a GOOD movie version of the Doomsday fight. To show that kind of wreckage and massive loss of life, with Superman paying the ultimate sacrifice to end it before it destroyed even more, that would have been a nice 3rd or 4th Superman movie.

how can you say Snyder hates Superman you fucking plebs, BvS was a big deconstruction of The Dark Knight Returns with Superman was the super pure, all good waifu against the overreactive stooge Batman.
Also he has done the most CRISIS type shit in a super movie yet, like the Knightmare/other universe vision, and having little hints towards Doomsday in MoS, putting universe lore (going so far as to name ascendents of Legionaries) in fake article, guide books, and even in dvd extras
Snyderhaters are just delusional.

>has all of Kyrpton in his body just like in MoS
>his dog gets eaten by a robot
>is literally powered by the spirits of the dead
>lois becomes Batman


sure sounds gritty when I describe it how snyder-haters describe the snyder movies.