Saw this for the first time today.
I can honestly say it holds up pretty well.
That said
How much do you think the animation-cinematic environment would have changed if WB hadn't fucked up with its theater release and it had sold much more at the box office?
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Say what you will about Bruce Timm
Timm draws 10/10 masturbation material.
Yeah, Alfred's pretty hot.
I think so yeah. If this movie had sold better I think movie market would be much different today.
Love the movie but only saw it in the last few years as well
What happened with the theater release
I remember actually watching this in theaters as a kid
What was wrong with its release?
Not even trying to be contrarian, but MotP is severely overrated, while Sub-Zero is severely underrated. I think most people just haven't seen it, as it released to home video.
While I love Freeze as a villain I thought the main premise was kinda dumb
That finale though was seriously gut-wrenching
Phantasm is better. Stop being a contrarian. Subzero movie is good but Phantasm is a masterpiece.
Warner Bros fucked up the marketing and decided to give the movie a wide release in theaters instead of the straight to VHS release like originally planned.
It only did okay at the box office but it would've done a lot better if WB did a better job at marketing it.
The emotional resonance of MotP is much stronger, especially the graveyard scenes.
>premise was kinda dumn
how so?
the main theme has better production value so the movie is better?
I don't know, man. I cry at the end of Sub-Zero. Every time.
While Subzero was an excellent end to Mister Freeze in the DCAU, MotP has one of the few times Bruce was ever happy after putting on the cowl, and watching all of that come crashing down on him hits extra hard.
Don't forget that it was a Christmas Day release too, for extra points.
>the main theme has better production value
Not him, but
I honestly chuckled when I found what the "Latin" lyrics were. Today no less.
Oh shit man really?
That blows.
I've been meaning to watch Mask of the Phantasm for ages. I'll have to get on that.
>look it up
God bless you, Shirley. Rest in peace.
That's pretty much the exact face I made when I heard the video of it played backwards.
I have to say that while the theme is great, and a lovely way of giving back to the people involved, Birth of Batman is probably the best track off the album. It starts dark, as Wayne's life was before he met Andrea, moves into a nice happy melody then... yeah. The scene is great too.
I think I saw Sub-Zero when they aired it on Cartoon Network
>The scene is great too.
That and this convinced me to see it.
It's a shame no one ever thinks to adapt a Bruce who's done all of this insane training, is ready to start his mission, and then he meets a girl who makes him question whether he should go through with being Batman. Begins had it to an extent, but it didn't feel natural. But this movie is why I can't hear anyone but Kevin Conroy as Batman. He may be sort of phoning it in now, but this movie is my personal favorite out of any of the Batman films.
They were like Disney doesn't have a movie this year then touchstone had a hit with nightmare.
Why is Joker green?
>How much do you think the animation-cinematic environment would have changed if WB hadn't fucked up with its theater release and it had sold much more at the box office?
From a scale of 1 to 10, 2.
That's Gobbo, who else did you expect from a Spider-Man movie?
I saw it a while ago and found it incredibly boring. I'd also had a rough day and was half-asleep for the last third or so of the movie so thats probably a reason why. But even before that I didn't find it too interesting. Can someone explain to me why they enjoyed Mask of the Phantasm so much? I just want to get some other views.
It's a good Batman movie, that tequires younto pay attention to it
Requires you to*
I might be a little drunk
Imagine BDH as the phantasm.
Who?
It wasn't even the end to Mister Freeze of DCAU, that happened all the way in Beyond.
WB is so weird. They built an industry out of animation and yet they seem ashamed of it.
In any case, Mask of the Phantasm came out in 1993, a year after Batman Returns and a couple of years before the astoundingly disappointing Batman Forever.
Batman was riding high with cinema audiences after the two Tim Burton movies and lost a lot of that good will with Batman Forever. I don't believe Phantasm doing well in theatres would have changed that, but it would have meant more animated Batman in theatres...especially with the negative reaction to Batman Forever. This in turn would have lead to bigger budgets for the Batman animated movies and, assuming they did well in theatres with adequate marketing, would have had a ripple effect through the industry leading to even more "serious" animated movies.
Studio executives have a very simplistic view of how their own industry works. When they see animated movies doing well they assume "audiences want more animated movies". The concept of quality doesn't even occur to them.
When Mask of the Phantasm bombed at the box office, it was taken as a sign that audiences didn't want "serious" animated movies. The later failure of Iron Giant (again, due to poor marketing) only confirmed that belief among studio executives.
Adding to the tragedy, Iron Giant's poor marketing might have been a direct result of Phantasm's poor box office performance. Studio execs skittish about "serious" animated movies might have deliberately reduced the marketing budget for a movie they didn't see as having a broad market appeal. This is just my conjecture, tho. It's possible the poor marketing for IG was an unrelated blunder, but in either case it fed into that narrative that audiences didn't want "serious" animated movies.
Another ripple effect, if WB had a franchise of successful animated Batman movies, Batman Forever might have been seen in an even more unfavourable light than it already was and we might not have gotten "Batman & Robin" at all, or it may have been a drastically different movie, a live action film more in line with their successful animated films. This could have changed the entire landscape for superhero movies in the mid to late 90's.
Likewise during the graveyard scene where Bruce is on his knees I get filled up.
Because dumbass corporations don't want to believe that the PR dipshits they pay to (not) do their jobs are amazingly shit at doing their jobs.
Pic related
i'm mad that dragon quest games are only localized nowadays on nintendo shit
I just wanted the monsters remakes and joker 3.
I would have sacrificed everything else.
Especially that fucking dreadful re-localization of 7.
>How much do you think the animation-cinematic environment would have changed if WB hadn't fucked up with its theater release and it had sold much more at the box office?
Not much. Cinematic releases of cartoon shows have been around before the TPM and continued afterwards. Also, WB continued to make more feature-length animated movies based the DC universe.
I think you're oversimplifying animation as a whole by leaving it at "Cinematic releases of cartoon shows have been around before the TPM and continued afterwards."
In the late 90's we saw the bottom begin to fall out of an theatrical animation industry that leaned far too heavily on one type of movie, the "Disney formula" movie.
WB continued to make feature length animated productions, sure, but they were low-budget, direct to DVD fare. Not the same as a theatrical release with high production values.
Box Office failures like Mask of the Phantasm pushed skittish studio execs away from theatrical animation that deviated from what worked for Disney and contributed to the later collapse of the cinematic animation industry later on.
Agreed