Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache

>Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache
how true is this? will i have an extremely hard time as a native english speaker learning german? the conjugation of verbs is a bit confusing which also negates the emphasis of word order which english is highly dependent on.

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I am Turkish and German is my 3rd language. It is not hard to learn the basics but extremely difficult to master it.

ok thanks for your input. in your opinion, what was the hardest aspect to truly grasp in the language?

I am native speaker and I still confuse dem/den occasionally
Also its more likely I know the english word/phrase for a german equivalent I cannot remember

Cases.
Arbitrary gender of nouns which has to be memorized.

>will i have an extremely hard time

no, it's still an indo european and germanic language after all

the different forms of articles is rather disturbing so im not surprised you mix them up.
quite true, it's different enough to cause a little confusion though and the sentence i started the thread with i can barely pronounce so theres also the accent/sound problem

Most people have a hard time with the articles i.e. mixing up "der" with "das".
Also the cases. We have Genetiv, Dativ, Akkusativ and Nominativ and it took me some time to learn them. Even Krauts often fail to use the correct case (by using Dativ instead of Genetiv for example)

Grammar is really the thing youll'll have trouble with

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i might be a pleb but sometimes i can't identify what the subject/object is in an english sentence either so ill really have to focus on the case system

Wish you a lot of strength my friend. It will take a lot of time but it will pay off :) I love the language and I prefer it over Turkish and Arabic 2bh. :) Why do you want to learn it anyway? To live/work in Germany?

>(by using Dativ instead of Genetiv for example)
You got an example? I often see people see pointing this out because it obviously is a common mistake, but Ive never really came across of those

Fich mich, meister blanc

Ich rammel deine schlitzäugige mutter in alle löcher und nasche anschließend ihren prächtig stinkenden wohlgeformten Kot, du japsen-vergewaltigungsbaby

i appreciate it. im studying linguistics and german has always been a favourite of mine, it comes across as very expressive and articulate. i'd definitely like to travel there in the near future since this would also help with learning the language but for now im just going to concentrate on learning german and see where it goes.

"wegen dem Geld" statt "wegen des Geldes" is the most classic example.

or something like "Der Schriftsteller von dem Roman [...]" statt "Der Schriftsteller des Romans [...]"

Interesting, I do the same mistakes
On the other hand I cringe when people say "einzigster" instead "einizger" or "macht Sinn" instead "ergibt Sinn"
I got schooled hard once, and I never did the same mistake again, maybe I will avoid dativ/genetiv mistake from now on

I have thought about learning german in my free time, just something on the side an hour or 30 minutes here and there but I always thought, why? If I move there, my job prospects aren't that great or different from what I have right now.

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Like the others said, grammar is mostly hard. Pronunciation might be another tricky one at some points.

It's also fucking weird and exotic all things considered, yet close enough to English in some respects.
Good choice, good luck
t. ling bro

german is a useless language

>exotic
How so? Half of europe is learning german, Russians prefer german classes over english classes
Its not exotic at all

Give up and stop wasting your time, I'm studying German for 6 years now and I still can barely speak the language.
I can not recommend anyone to study German and it's a useless language on international sphere anyway

> der Band
> das Band
> die Band
Based German

where are you from?

Im currently B2 in german and I agree with this so much, the thing is everyone likes to say that the hardest part about german is the grammar but it really isnt , yes the grammar is challenging but there's almost no exceptions to the grammar rules.

the actual hardest thing about german is just the sheer number of words this language has. for example you cant just say the word "put" in german. the word put in german is actually like 6 words. Setzen, stellen, legen, tuen, geben, platzieren. and they all can be used for the word put but they all must be used in certain context with certain objects that have to be memorized.

is this correct german lads?

>der band

a bandage?

>das band

a band or wrist band in english?

>die band

like a musical band?

>"Der Schriftsteller von dem Roman [...]" statt "Der Schriftsteller des Romans [...]

In my german text book they say its not incorrect to use "von" instead of genitive , they say some germans use it in everyday speech instead of genitive.

der Band is a volume in a series of books

thanks

the fuck ma nigga? are you asian? or speak a non native european tongue?

forgive me for assuming shit from u without knowin u, but most of the time when someone says they study it for years and cant speak it is because they never make the effort to try to speak it because they feel ashamed to. my grill is the same way with spanish

i refuse to believe you've been studying it for 6 years and can't speak it, thats impossible. i could study chinese for 6 years and be fluent. you're just not engaged with it by the sounds of this

Beides ist richtig, du Vogel.

Why would anyone want to learn German? I really don't understand it. We don't have any entertainment media, no worthwhile people and even academic output is decreasing while all being translated anyway. Learn Japanese instead.

Seit wann ist ersteres richtig?

Honestly this desu. Cases aren't particularly "hard", and word order is pretty systematic as well (in terms of when the verb goes at the end, for everything else, there's cases).
The hard part (or rather, the time consuming part) is learning to use these things instinctively, to naturally associate giving a location with using dativ, or to feel weird when you hear or say something like "weil es schmeckt gut" instead of "weil es gut schmeckt".
Brobap nailed it

Swiss german has no genitiv, so people only use "von" :^)
[spoiler] Swiss German isn't real german tho so it doesn't matter [\spoiler]

i just have a personal interest in the language, i think it sounds and looks quite enthralling.

>Beides ist richtig, du Vogel.
Mein Lehrer war anderer Meinung :(

Es ist richtig, weil Sprache kein festes Gerüst von Regeln ist sondern Richtigkeit sich nach dem gängigem Sprachgebrauch richtet. Ich schätze allerdings, dass retardierte EOPs dies niemals verstehen werden.

Scheiß Lehrer.

>Es ist richtig, weil Sprache kein festes Gerüst von Regeln ist sondern Richtigkeit sich nach dem gängigem Sprachgebrauch richtet.
Du bist auch einer dieser "Es macht Sinn" Trottel, nicht wahr? Geh dich erhängen.

>Beides ist richtig du Vogel
Nein.

Gender cases are arbitrary, just remember them with the noun (e.g. "Der Hund" rather than "Hund"
Sentence structure is a bitch to learn, as are clauses that go with them
Knowing how and when to use dative tends to be pretty difficult (you also have to learn the other cases but they're easy)
Skipped the thread until here, I do agree and the big thing it is useful so you'll have a chance to actually use it which helps immensely with avoiding burnout. I don't know why but in general when I help people learn German in various threads they tend to be Aussies

Dies. Pflichtschulabsolventen ins Braussbad

>Beides ist richtig, du Vogel.
I'm not fluent but this -really- doesn't seem right.

Mach dir wegen einer solchen Lappalie doch nicht derartig einen Kopf. Die deutsche Sprache hat sowieso keinerlei Wert. Wir werden hoffentlich bald alle Englisch sprechen. Dann muss ich mich glücklicherweise nicht mehr mit dieser verkommenen Sprache auseinandersetzen.
Außerdem ist was ich gesagt die absolute Wahrheit. Sprache hat keine Regeln. Die Regeln wurden nur aus der Sprache abgeleitet und sind nicht einmal allgemeingültig. Ich verstehe nicht warum manche Leute sich mit diesem Konzept nicht anfreunden können.

Ja.

Bin Student. Hab Abi.

It's quite right. Don't worry about it.

yeah the gendered nouns are ridiculous like girl being neuter but boy being masculine but i guess it just takes practice. thats a good idea to match the nouns with their respective articles. yeah since we have all the german cases in english apart from dative, the accusative/nominative/genitive cases should be fairly easy to interpret. that is interesting you say that, during our primary/high school years, german is one of the main languages offered for extra-curricular grades (others being french and japanese) and plus where i grew up there were a lot of german immigrants that established the townships in the area so there was big emphasis on the german language at high school. plus, my family is german so i guess i'd be getting in touch with my roots.

>It's quite right. Don't worry about it.
I remember having it drilled into my head that "wegen" was one of those words that always triggers the genitive case. I could see why someone might be confused between something like "Krieger des Lichts" and "Krieger von dem Licht" but not this

I'd imagine that yes, it will. I managed to somewhat learn German because it is similar to Czech when it comes to cases but the articles are a pain in the ass. So is the word order by the way, it takes a special kind of genius to invent a language that puts the verb at the end of the sentence in language where one sentence can last half a page. Also German numbers are a gem.

TL;DR; read what Mark twain wrote about German

People like to pretend gender cases are useful but they're really not. In the off-chance you're on Steam I could help with any dumb questions you have; I tend to not give advice unless I'm 100% sure about it for whatever that's worth
>plus, my family is german so i guess i'd be getting in touch with my roots.
pls no, it's bad enough when we do that

don't listen to that idiot. He clearly has autism

Wouldn't be the first time I've been seeing German speakers give bad advice to people learning

Cases and verb conjugations aren't that hard for a native Russian speaker. what confuses me is detachable prefixes when you shove them to the end of the sentence.

I already said it once in German but I'll say it again in English. Language is not a static construct of rules that never changes. What is correct and what is not correct is derived from what is used by the people who speak the language. If you want to learn a language it makes absolutely zero sense to go and memorize rules. I don't even really know the cases in German and yet I have no problem with producing German that is printed in academic literature. What you need is a tremendous amount of input. Right now I am learning Japanese and here it becomes painfully obvious how useless it is to memorize grammar rules or structure. For language learning nothing else matters. You need input, input, input.

A lot of people don't know anything about language and language learning. If you think listening to stupid elitists clinging to rules written down in a book as a guideline to your language learning journey makes any sense whatsoever then you are already doomed to fail.

don't worry, us Turks will always be glad to help you :3

>Learn Japanese instead.
Why would one learn Janese? To watch anime and read manga? It's a pointless language.

i agree, the gendered stuff really only makes sense when it's being used with a second person pronoun like he/her to provide some more specific information in the sentence. sure thing, my steam id is fatkent250kg.
im not learning german to get in touch with my background, its more of a poetic coincidence that im instinctively drawn to the german language because of my ethnicity.

>To watch anime and read manga?
Yes. Also to play Eroge. Beyond that I've found my adult toy shopping to have become more enjoyable since learning some Japanese.

You don't know anything about German grammar rules because you grew up with the language, I don't know shit about English rules but know German ones inside out. Kids pick up languages extremely easily and form subconscious patterns that coincide with grammar and rules, learning a language in your 20s is completely different

i hate anime with a passion though

Kind of funny because if we're going "muh ancestry" I'm 3rd generation east yuro countries with a hate boner for Germany

Yes language changes. That doesn't change the fact that you will be seen as less intelligent and unprofessional when you make even simple grammatical mistakes. Stop telling non native speakers making mistakes is ok because language is fluent. In a autistic region like the germanosphere mistakes are highly frowned upon and a simple spelling mistake can result your CV getting thrown in trash.

people still need a foundation to learn the language or they can't ever hope to interpret the input you're talking about.

Also "FaTkEnT"? Don't see anyone with the 250kg part

my bad, try "fish smell"

steamcommunity.com/id/thesterg
Fuck man just add me

>Yes. Also to play Eroge. Beyond that I've found my adult toy shopping to have become more
I'd better learn Spanisch or French. I've never understood why would a full grown person watch Japanese cartoons?

>I've never understood why would a full grown person watch Japanese cartoons?
Because people enjoy things, Vlad.

I thought I explained the entire thing to you in English and not German.

>Kids pick up languages extremely easily and form subconscious patterns
Bullshit. Even if it is true adults can still learn a language.
Know what adult learners don't do? Go about gaining the amount of input needed to learn a langauge. You need to get HOURS of input EVERY SINGLE DAY. If you fail to realize that and insist on learning stupid rules in a book you will never ever learn the language. Like I said, nothing else matters but input.

Do you also suffer from homosexuality?

I don't know what job recruiters think man. It's not a mistake though, uncultured for sure.

Maybe, but with input as the basis. I'd say if input is less than 90% of your study you are doing something wrong.

It's enjoyable. If you enjoy French literature or whatever then go for it.

Try polish kiddo

>I already said it once in German but I'll say it again in English. Language is not a static construct of rules that never changes. What is correct and what is not correct is derived from what is used by the people who speak the language. If you want to learn a language it makes absolutely zero sense to go and memorize rules. I don't even really know the cases in German and yet I have no problem with producing German that is printed in academic literature. What you need is a tremendous amount of input. Right now I am learning Japanese and here it becomes painfully obvious how useless it is to memorize grammar rules or structure. For language learning nothing else matters. You need input, input, input.

I second this guy. I was trying learning various languages and the most easiest way to learn them is to have lots of practice and memorize not the rules but common phrases, concepts, samples. Some books have side-by-side texts in your native and foreign language, these are also good.
That includes reading books, watching news, movies, chatting online, etc.
Looking at grammar and rules also helps but it's not that important as it seems.

> der Aufwand
> das Gewand
> die Wand
Learning German is easy m8, just be yourself, works for me

This is what I mean when I say that people memorizing rules can't learn languages. Not even Germans know how articles work. Want to know how they know which one to use? Input.

no thanks, i dont want to vomit everytime i have to speak

learn russian
go to russia
become a spy
...
profit

Dativ vs. genetiv is a dialectal thing. Especially in western / south western there is no genetiv left. When switching to high German it get's obvious for others. "Das ist dem sein Auto." sound crude for most high German speakers but is totaly fine in many dialects

i wanted to learn russian at uni for a while, i think it sounds amazing as well, but it's very alien to english speakers. it's definitely a language i'd like to learn though

Russian is a lingua franca in most ex-ussr countries and in all russian republics.
Loads of literature including lots of scientific text.
It could be useful for sure

"Sinn machen" is not wrong and can be found in German at least 150 yers

iaas.uni-bremen.de/sprachblog/2009/01/12/seit-wann-machen-wir-im-deutschen-sinn/

>>
I'm a native English speaker and learned German in school. Was definitely one of my favorite subjects and I've always had a strange interest in the language and culture since I was a child.
It also helps that it is practical as interestingly enough German really is the only language other than English I frequently encounter on the Internet.
It's really the only European language other than English worth learning as in my experience those two languages form the lingua francas of Europe, as there is a good chance someone you're speaking to will know one or the other, but especially German in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Also not really the case anymore but up until 30 or so years ago a knowledge of German was necessary for stem fields and all the people in academia I've encountered older than about 40 can read it, even the various pajeets and Asians.

You really have to have a genuine interest in the language and people to want to learn it (German speaking countries are the only ones I'd really ever consider visiting).
Also
>Japanese
If you're a weeb and want to watch anime in the original language sure but it has no practical applications whatsoever outside of that. At least being the equivalent of a weeb for German culture has some practicality.

In our dialect even some articles change.
"das Teller" or "der Butter" for example.

>the actual hardest thing about german is just the sheer number of words this language has. for example you cant just say the word "put" in german. the word put in german is actually like 6 words. Setzen, stellen, legen, tuen, geben, platzieren. and they all can be used for the word put but they all must be used in certain context with certain objects that have to be memorized.

sounds like russian or any eastern slavic language

Same with genders, many nouns in German and Russian have absolutely weird genders.

bed - femine in Russian, neuter in German
milk - neuter in Russian, femine in German
etc

even basic words have different articles compared to other PIE languages.

Der Mond - la lune
Die Sonne - le solleil

What happens if I always use 'das' instead of der, die, des, dem, den?

dobra

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"Ich bin über das Strasse gelaufen um auf das Bus zu steigen"
sounds like an african immigrant desu

Simple/short sentences could be understood, complex sentences would be messed up, sometimes completely

will it be a big problem given that I would sound like a Japanese immigrant anyway?

It's this fuckery that made me start studying Finnish and Estonian. I studied German for 3 years during my degree and to this day I get the adjective endings and Noun gender wrong. The based Uralic languages sound magical and don't have articles or gender in the 3rd person.
>Suomalainen kieli on parempi kuin loput

They'll respond in English

It depends where the speaker is coming from desu. In my small town we have one English guy and an American, both live in Germany more than 20 years and always mispronounce words and use wrong articles, but nobody gives a shit because it sounds kinda cute. However, if a Turk or Arab uses that kind of language he will be looked down on and people can get quite angry.

in my experience asians speaking broken german sound very cute and endearing, its np

Childish stuff, try finnish

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oops I overlooked your post
problem solved thanks

No, as East Asian you'll be good.

I keked, but you're right

I got a book on Finnish language, but finns in /mammi/ told me the book is pure shit, the cases are wrong, the prepositions aren't right and I decided fuck it.

That's cute. Basque has 23 cases, of which 16 are commonly used.

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I know from experience. When I first visited Germany, I was unsure about the articles....so I would just say, "d' Ecke" "d' Zug" etc...

riots in Catalonia. Germany g holds the president of catalonia

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Do you speak Euskara? The most interesting language ever!

This is my favorite cheat code