Did Nothing Wrong

How the fuck is she a bad person? Honestly? She was able to unite a kingdom after it had been thrown into chaos. Do you know how hard that is? It takes generations to complete something like that on that scale. It only took her three years. Also people would complain about the re education camps, but we never got a look at why certain ones where there. What reason would a Fire or a Waterbender have to go into a land that is currently in anarchy? Only fucking reason they were there so that they could benefit from what was going on. Also the other leaders were willing to put a person with no experience who only thought of himself to take power. She did what needed to be done. Funny, Fire Nation starts a world war and nothing bad happens. She takes back her land. She goes to prison. Terrible.

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The concentration camps were a pretty big giveaway.

If only she stepped down during Wu's coronation. I wanted her to remain good.

You wouldn't think that if she were a man.

I'm not OP but Kuvira's vindication (and waifuability) has absolutely nothing to do with her gender.

Consider what many people think, she is already a man.

The only TLOK antagonist I've never seen anyone defend to some degree is Unalaq. I doubt Kuvira being a man would've changed many people's minds.

She went too far in what was initially a noble effort, but I still wish that Kuvira had the chance to call out Suyin for some of the things she did.

Standing idle while the country was falling apart. Trying to assassinate her adopted daughter during a ceasefire, yet turning around and accepting Batar Jr. back without question because he was her birth son. etc.

Yeah, Unalaq could have been potentially sympathetic in trying to forcefully restore the world to a spiritual age if he cared about his family at all and wasn't just opting to become the anti-christ.

She has brought peace, freedom, justice and security to her Empire.

But them Nazis built some good railroads.

Heeeer Empire??

>Spend two seasons talking about how useless and shit the Earth Kingdom royalty were
>Kuvira reunites the disparate states into a singular kingdom after everyone else was busy dicking around as the country collapsed into pure anarchy
>I'm supposed to believe she's bad because she has the gall to twist people's arms into joining the kingdom, the extent of which appears to be "If you don't join we're going to treat you as an independent state whose land we want and conquer your ass," and sometimes is as mild as "well we just won't protect you from the marauding bandits then because you know you're independent"

How the fuck is this wrong? Can't walk the walk don't talk the talk you whiny bitches.

And the end of the arc with Wu actually pisses me off horribly.

>Everyone spends the literal entire season trying to get this dipshit on the fucking throne
>Kuvira finally is stopped
>Wu decides "lol monarchies are so archaic it's [CURRENT YEAR] man xDD"

SO THE PLAN WAS TO JUST MAKE ANOTHER POWER VACUUM ALL ALONG?

HOW DO YOU SEND THIS MANY MIXED FUCKING SIGNALS JESUS FUCK

FUCK OFF

If it wasn't for shitty writers and making her character more gray instead of evil with all the forced labour camps and shit, she would be fucking GOAT.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER

Literally Hitler.

Dunno, people love Amon and the Exbendables.

She wasn't supposed to be a "bad" person, she meant well, became monomaniacal and fanatical, went too far, she wasn't meant to be capital E evil.

Literally nothing wrong.

I agreed with her on basically everything until the concentration camps, and pissing off the spirits and threatening to murder subordinates for the sake of making nuclear weaponry.

Until then, it was basic pragmatism for the greater good. More reasonable than sticking to the corrupt royal line anyhow.

>I agreed with her on basically everything until the concentration camps

Fuck off with this we literally never even saw a concentration camp

This was another thing that was stupid as fuck; they wanted to make her out to be a villain, but they neglected to show her doing anything particularly VILLAINOUS

Why didn't they give us an episode with some gassed dissenters or some shit? At worst she was just a dick who valued her kingdom over any individual life, and I fail to see how that's supposed to be a flaw when her kingdom was literally in total anarchy.

user got a point there

she had a giant fucking laser gun AND a giant robot and she couldn't fuck up one single city

Thats par for the course with LoK. Some of the worst "tell not show" I've ever seen. Things like Amon learning energy bending, or platinum resisting metalbending or Korrasami came out of nowhere. I had to keep asking "did I miss an episode? Did they explain, or set up, or even vaguely foreshadow this major plot point at all?"

except that was a rumor. they were never shown.

what concentration camps?

sounds like CIA propaganda, user

She made my dick feel funny. Does that count as doing something wrong?

>Americans in charge of judgement

>She made my dick feel funny

Great Ship or Greatest Ship?

Yes.

That's not Zaheer...

...

She pushed it to far by attacking the metal city. She should have stopped to consolidate when the Avatar showed up.

Suyin is shit this is known.

she was putting traitors there

And anyone who disagreed with her or came from another nation.

1- she was basically at war with other nations
2- disagreement is followed by backstabbing. Do you honestly think if Bolin could just leave he wouldn't go to RC and tell everyone about her plans?

What? The whole point of LOK is that all of the villains are right to an extent but then take it too far.

...

She wasn't at war with anyone at the time, in fact she was working for them to start with, and still was when the camps started getting mentioned.

Not if you listen to your people, she made those people her enemies before they started being against her. Bolin only became a problem because he found out she had been lying about why they were helping people.

Only if Kuvira brings Korra to her side

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>AAARGH I HATE YOU! GIVE MY GIANT ROBOT TO BATAAR WHEN HE'S OLDER!

She can't be any worse than the next war lord that is going to take over part of the EK

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mutual hate sex > Kuvira corrupting Korra > Korra redeeming Kuvira

But they're all fine.

>[Wu is a dipshit]

The entire evacuation demonstrated that despite what a nancy-boy weirdo he was, when shit hit the fan, Wu turned out to be an extremely capable leader who effortlessly kept people calm and got them to safety when they followed his orders. Of course that made his decision to step even MORE infuriating because even though they showed Wu was a foppy little twink, he'd have actually been pretty good at his job when people reminded him to do it.

Here's something to consider about the end of Wu's arc. If Republic City was supposed to be Shanghai in the Roaring 20s then the Earth Kingdom was the interior of China in the same time period: backwards, corrupt and ruled by a conservative clique. The reigning Earth Queen was visually supposed to look like the Dowager empress Cixi, last ruler of the Qing dynasty. Following that logic, Wu is supposed to stand in for Puyi, the boy-emperor who abdicated the imperial throne in the wake of a popular democratic movement in the 1920s.

The problem is, Avatar The Last Airbender already had a Puyi stand-in: the Earth King during the 100 Years War! Just another example of how rushed and half-baked the execution to Korra is compared to the original.

Except the Earth King went absolutely nowhere because he was completely incapable.
Wu actually demonstrated some leadership skills, and his decision to abdicate the throne was for the good of the people and the culmination of his coming of age and actually considering what's best for people.
Earth King just decided immediately he couldn't handle no war and just fucked right off with his bear.
Just another example of how Korra took some things unexplored in Last Airbender and improved on them.

>She wasn't at war with anyone at the time
but she clearly knew she was going to. If you know you will piss off the world, shouldn't you act Before?

>Not if you listen to your people
if she had listen to her people, they would leave part of the EK in chaos, and Zaofu as some sort of independent State, that just took advantage of the kingdom and left. The earth kingdom would be very weakened without RC and Zaofu, that again, belonged to them in the first place.

>he found out she had been lying about why they were helping
it was because of the Zaofu situation and 'muh girlgriend'.

Of course, there are no concentration camps. Only "education camps" where people are learning new skills.
Of course, they aren't free to leave the camps but that's hardly a problem, hey ?

Maybe you shouldn't piss of the world just to start a war you don't need to wage? That's better than going full hitler on your own people.

Zaofu might have belonged to the earth kingdom, but RC didn't since it was created as a seperate place for firenation/earthkingdom colonials where they could live in peace.
The problem with Zaofu is that it didn't seem to have a problem with the Earth kingdom, but with Kuviras Earth Empire to which it never belonged. RC also never belonged to the Earth Empire.
Also the Earth Kingdom was doing fine before pure anarchy without RC and Zaofu. And Kuvira did manage to bring them back up without much trouble without those cities too, so the Earth kingdom would do just fine without those two places as it had been for a long time before Kuvira was ever tasked with bringing peace back to it.

Yes, it was because Kuvira was trying to force a seperate nation to join her against their will. He had a problem with them going from rescuing people in need to waging war against their neighbors.

No evidence of them in series. Kuvira's my fashyfu.

Say what you will about Kuviraism, but at least the trains were on time.

Oh yea, believe the prisoners about why they're in there.

>Uniting independent sovereign states into one large superpower
>Good

Large states only benefit those that rule them. The best defense of individual liberty is decentralized governance.

Kuriva was the only one who wanted to establish order in the Earth Kingdom. Raiko was going to install a dictator so he can get that ore.

Why couldn't the earth states stay independent? They seemed to be doing fine. Sure there were some bandits, but thats not a problem they couldn't have solved themselves.

Earth states don't have the resources to effectively combat the bandits.

She only wanted to secure the existence of her people and a future for the children of the Earth Empire...

>The earth kingdom would be very weakened without RC and Zaofu, that again, belonged to them in the first place.

The population of a country/region gets to decide who they "belong" to, not outside forces.

You should have realized by that point that Bryke can't write for shit, especially morally grey characters.
>inb4 Zaheer
A shit.

The argument you could make against her (handwaved camps and WMD used against civilians aside) is about legitimacy of governing bodies, but that's subjective.

>negationism
>with the same discourse as irl
Wew lad

Except Kuvira basically admitted to their existence to Varrick.

Which goddamn Varrick's constant coat-turning is underratedly retarded.

That's what they say about fascism and it's a blatant lie.

Kuvira would have been a more or less benevolent dictator.

I also don't get why she would be some kind of racist. She clearly had the hots for Korra's dad... and Korra.

What? Wasn't there like a whole episode where Bolin and Varrick liberate one?

This is a really bad anime. Wakfu is a better one.

Concentration camps do not a Nazi make. They're simply mass internment camps and her supposed camps were work camps anyway, not divided or focused on ethnicity/race so not a concentration camp.

Besides, United Republic is rightful Earth Kingdom clay.

It's a poorly written defense of modern liberal republican federalism being the only acceptable form of government because regardless of what the situation may actually call for.

Kuvira may have been Lee Kuan Yoo or Park Chung Hee, using power (military power especially) to forge together a new state that becomes a shining star of the global stage. Wu will be an African/SEAsian fuck up and its only a matter of time until the Earth Nation or whatever the fuck it's called now decides into feuds between the city-states and civil war.

She was only rounding up water and firebenders who were living in the earth kingdom and tossing them in there.

Also
>Besides, United Republic is rightful Earth Kingdom clay.
I am correct in saying that anyone who has ever posted this and will eventually post this in reference to Avatar is not from the United State of America? Or any other country that used to belong to another country and therefore said person would be willing to leave their home if the former rightful party decided to walk back in?

>its only a matter of time
>decides into feuds between the city-states and civil war.
Omashu never tried to conquer another place. And another place never tried to conquer Omashu from the history that we know. That's one example of a king not trying to extend their reach regardless of serving a king above them.

Also the Fire Nation had a conflict over the Earth Kingdom with what was Yu Dao and that was resolved immediately in the comics with Aang.

Wasn't the point that now there are no King above other kings, since Kuvira and her command staff got removed, and Wu abdicated without any mention of someone to take over after him. Not to mention that Korra left aswell leaving the Earth Empire provinces to fend for themselves again until someone has the military power to take over the area again.

Wu was a western puppet who was just there so they could suck the kingdom dry while profiting off its resources .

Wu said we would step down, presumably once there was an established order to ensure peaceful transfer of power (or if he didn't think of that someone would have pointed it out to him)

That would make sense, but it sounded more like he was bailing immediately to work on music or something.

yeah but that's why he has advisers who're smarter than him, the earth king seems to be mostly a ceremonial position anyway

He would need to accept the position before getting any advisers, and actually listen to them. For all the time we saw him he didn't interact with any advisers except for Mako if he counts.

>The population of a country/region gets to decide who they "belong" to
user, if you decide that your house is now another country, what would happen?

Not exactly true; a bunch of people can't take land and decide to make a country

That's true, but to be fair, the previous owner and the (at the time) current owner gave the lands away to that bunch of people so they could make their own country.

> the previous owner and the (at the time) current owner gave the lands away to that bunch of people so they could make their own country
you're talking about RC? the earth king never really said he was okay with it, and the earth queen was butthurt by it. Aang kind of imposed that.

I'm not saying it is wrong that they live there, or even that they took it to themselves, i'm just saying there is nothing wrong with Kuvira's reasoning either.

But there is something wrong with Kuviras reasoning, because the land doesn't belong to her Earth Empire or the Earth Kingdom anymore. And it hasn't belonged to them for around 160 years (100 from the war, and 60 from RC existing). She is just invading another country because she wants the land, not because it belongs "rightfully" to her.

>the land doesn't belong to her Earth Empire or the Earth Kingdom anymore
and it belongs to the people that stole it years ago? that's no good reasoning. What is wrong with her "stealing it back"? after about 100 years it will all be fine anyway

No it belongs to those it was given to willingly ie the RC. Just saying it was a very long time ago that it belonged to the Earth Kingdom, and it never belonged to the Earth Empire she was trying to take it for.

>it was given to willingly ie the RC
user, Aang separated it from land and said "it now belongs to the invaders". That's how it was decided, there was no 'giving', and even if there was it would just make the earth king an idiot that gave away part of his country, which is still arguably attackable by the next ruler.

>Just saying it was a very long time ago that it belonged to the Earth Kingdom
if the issue is just time, when Kuvira take it, time will also pass and it will "no longer be wrong", according to you.

>it never belonged to the Earth Empire she was trying to take it for
It is, however, part of the earth nation, that she was ruling. A country doesn't stop existing because one leader dies and another change names.

The King didn't seem like the smartest guy, but he didn't give it away to the invaders, they both gave up the area to those who had lived there together for a hundred years and had formed their own culture. And if anything the firenation got beat up by Aang more than the EK did. It is also pretty obvious that they both gave it away willingly.

It's not about time. But Kuvira saying it is part of the earth kingdom is wrong, because it has not been part of the earth kingdom for a very long time and they gave it up. The area once upon a time belonging to the EK doesn't justify taking it by force from those who live there.

She formed her own country the Earth Empire, made up of former EK states that she forced to join her. It's not the EK anymore, she herself disbanded it officially at her speech in RC, which also means she wavered any claim to the former EK lands she could have had.

>they both gave up the area
From the earth king, we don't actually see if he was okay with it. In LoK the queen just says he was too weak to fight for it so i doubt that's the case. Also, Zuko had no "right" to the area from the get-go so his opinion is meaningless.

>The area once upon a time belonging to the EK doesn't justify taking it by force from those who live there.
the area was also unjustifiably taken from them by the fire nation, and then unjustifiably taken from the FN by Aang. Taking that area without just cause sounds right at this point, considering the people living there had NO RIGHT to live there in the first place. As you just said yourself, "it's not about time", which means even if 5000 years pass, they will still be there without any right to be.

>She formed her own country the Earth Empire
she just changed the name, user. She doesn't have the strength to declare a country dead, because It's literally the same place and the same people, and that's what a country is made of.

I should also point out, the "earth empire" thing you're arguing is merely a technicality; she could literally just say she "took power of the earth nation and took power and changed it to an empire" and her actions would be rightful, according to you.

He could have fought back or tried taking it whenever, but he didn't. He might have been completely fine with it since the people were happy with that arrangement. The queen was also a very greedy person who probably just wanted it for more taxes.
And yeah Zuko didn't have a right to it either beyond the Fire nation people living there and having been born there, but he also chose not to fight over it and let them have their own land.

Yeah the fire nation wasn't justified in taking it you're completely right. But no one is pretending they were like with Kuvira. Aang however didn't force them to give it up, he forced them not to kill eachother and those living there. And forced them to listen to the people living there instead of their own nations.

It's a different culture and a different political system. The EK was dying as it is and she just made the killing blow instead of repairing it.

You could say that, but that isn't what she did. She instead made sure to have most of the states sign over their rights to her and her empire, not the EK. And even if she had remade the EK she wouldn't be justified in taking over the RC that wasn't a part of the EK.

>Yeah the fire nation wasn't justified in taking it
they didn't though, it became it's own country

The colonies had been colonies for 100 years, that means that those people had been living there fore three or four generations, you can't send the fire nation civilians 'back' there, the last relative of theirs who lived their was their grandfather, and you can't ask the earth civilians to accept a ruler who they've not been under for three generations. And that's not even getting into the amount of mixing which went on between the two.

>Besides, United Republic is rightful Earth Kingdom clay.

No it isn't - it was lawfully ceded.

True that. But they had no justification for making the colonies in the first place either.

And you're right the problem with the colonies after the 100 year was that they weren't really Earth kingdom anymore, and they weren't really fire nation either. Which is why the URN was made as a compromise instead.

So i agree with you, but that also means that Kuviras argument that the area belongs to her because it was once EK land, doesn't work.

>He could have fought back or tried taking it whenever
you're underestimating how much naive and coward he is. It's very in-character for him to back off. This doesn't mean he is happy with it.

>Aang however didn't force them to give it up
HE LITERALLY ENTERED AVATAR STATE AND FORCED THEM TO STOP. He separated the goddamn city from land and told them it would be a separated place now. This is getting idiotic now; if "time doesn't matter", this means the earth nation will always be the rightful owner of that place, which means Aang forcing them to stop trying to take it back is a bad thing.

>It's a different culture and a different political system
it's not a different culture from Earth kingdom to Earth empire, and the political system doesn't matter. Your country could decide tomorrow to become a monarchy, it's still your country.

>she wouldn't be justified in taking over the RC that wasn't a part of the EK
"because some people stole it a long time ago"

>"because some people stole it a long time ago"
and afterwards the people who lived there decided they didn't want to be part of either nation and the leaders of both nations agreed to that

>they didn't though
the reason as to why FN was living there was because they took it from the EK. The place was under FN power until the end of the war. So yeah, they stole it.

>What reason would a Fire or a Waterbender have to go into a land that is currently in anarchy? Only fucking reason they were there so that they could benefit from what was going on.

Uhh... or maybe they're visiting friends or family or on a business trip or sightseeing or any other fucking reason?

>and afterwards the people who lived there decided they didn't want to be part of either nation
hey, why don't you just create your own country with your house, user? that's how it works, right?

>the leaders of both nations agreed to that
the earth king didn't, and Zuko didn't have any right to it in the first place.

>ey, why don't you just create your own country with your house, user? that's how it works, right?
if the government of my country agrees to give it to me then it does

>Your country could decide tomorrow to become a monarchy, it's still your country.

European detected.

If the USA became a monarchy, it wouldn't be America anymore, and it wouldn't be our country any longer.

>if the government of my country agrees to give it to me then it does
What if a literal God forces the government's army back so you can live there, does that make it right?

Doesn't mean he is unhappy with it either. And he liked Aang to begin with so it's very likely he would listen to the avatars council on this.

To stop them from killing eachother and everyone around because it would be stupid to restart the war right after it stopped. Ok then time does matter, i can't tell you how long though, but if two cultures have mixed to the point that they are essentially one culture who has lived there forever it belongs to them as much as anyone.
Aang preventing violence is not a bad thing.

My country is a monarchy. Besides if my country stopped calling itself Denmark and changed all it's policies and political system, it would be a different country, with no dealings with other countries because they changed the name and the system.

>"because some people stole it a long time ago"
Because it was given back to those who always had lived there.