So even if evolution is true

what is the driving force behind it ? what makes creatures develop new characteristics to survive ? why didn't they just roll up and die ? what drives life ?

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No one knows, yet.

or maybe religion got it right

Competition for mates and the environment?

Seems pretty straightforward to me friendo

every scientific milestone weakens the claims of religion
you honestly think its going to turn out that the garden of eden, the 6000 year old earth, and the talking snake was right all along?
You think it's weakness to say "we don't know" rather than "god did it", whatever "god" is anyway?
and if you say "religion" got it right, which one? and why?
science has a worldview (technology, exploring the universe, understanding the world around us better each day) and religion has its worldview (head in the sand, superstition, appeals to ancient authority)
shame on you lol

>Competition for mates and the environment?
that's circular reasoning
what drives competition ? why don't they just roll up and die

>what is the driving force behind it ?

Changing environments.

>what makes creatures develop new characteristics to survive ?

Mutation. Most are bad, but they result in death, sterility or failure to breed, so they don't accumulate. The good ones result in greater success at survival and breeding, so they do accumulate, generation by generation.

>why didn't they just roll up and die ?

Many did. The ones who didn't have an urge to survive went extinct, leaving only the species who had a survival instinct.

All of this is really obvious and should have occurred to you simply in the course of thinking about it on your own.

>garden of eden
say alternate dimensions and nobody bats an eyelash, talk about heaven and hell and everyone loses their minds
>6000
that's some cuckstianity shit not an islamic view

The triumph of the will

>what drives life ?
Paper and pussy mang. Erry nigga knows dat.

>urge to survive
how do a unicellular organism have an urge to survive ?
>mutation
is there any evidence mutation can cause macroevolution ?

>say alternate dimensions and nobody bats an eyelash, talk about heaven and hell and everyone loses their minds

Because they know a cult when you see it. Heaven exists as a concept to make you want to join, and to recruit your loved ones so they will be there after death as well.

Hell exists as a concept to make you afraid to seriously entertain doubts, and to make you want to convert as many people as you can so they can avoid Hell too.

Satan exists to make you think any evidence against Christianity is just a diabolical attempt to lead you astray.

Likewise with verses like "Lean not on your own understanding", "walk by faith, not by sight", "the wisdom of men is foolishness to God", "There is a way that looks right to a man but ends in death" and other variations on "Do not apply critical thought to scripture, just trust me that it's true"

>how do a unicellular organism have an urge to survive ?

Because the ones that didn't went extinct. But then even cells are descended from simpler self-copying chemical reactions, which don't "try to survive". Rather the reaction continues because of basic chemical principles.

>Because they know a cult when you see it

*They.

Probably just unintentional mutations that happen over the course of time that does get passed down through breeding. There are probably mutations that weren't favorable thus were quickly bred out or not even given the chance to breed.

>that's some cuckstianity shit not an islamic view
so you think a guy who marries a 9 year old and fucks her and brands peoples eyes shut and cuts off arms and legs for stealing camels is gonna turn out to be the best human who ever lived?
and who thought that mary, the mother of jesus, and mary, the sister of moses, was the same person?
and who quoted nonsense syrian gnostic gospels in the quran and the thought the gospel was one book because he was a literal idiot?
oh ok, good luck i guess lol

>what drives life?
what drives your life? what drives your dog to live? what drives rain to fall and planets to spin and apples to fall from trees? what drives roaches and cats and cells to divide? its the natural way of things, driven by natural law. are you trying to say dung beetles living in shit, animals eating one another, eating their own children, humans raping children, being born blind, wildfires burning whole forests, all this has a spirit purpose? shame on you again

>Narrated Anas bin Malik:
>A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.") (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261)

>they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina

THIS GUY IS SO COOL I WONDER ABOUT HIS THOUGHTS ON GOD LOL

you clearly don't understand evolution. there is nothing driving it. random mutations happen and the mutations that cause more offspring for the organism tend to be passed on while the bad mutations kill off that organism and aren't passed on.

Hunger, Horniness, Thirst, that sorta shit. You're no different from any other animal.

What makes you get out of bed? What makes you keep breathing?

Fun fact for those that don't believe in evolution, human fetuses have gills.

That's right gills. They are vestigial but for all outward appearances both on the microscopic and macroscopic they are nearly identical to those found in fish and amphibians.

In the first trimester they are basically twisted around like balloon animals and become your jawbone, inner ear, and sinuses (there are 3).

Explain that shit.

Being able to fuck again tomorrow.

cells are descended from simpler self-copying chemical reactions, which don't "try to survive". Rather the reaction continues because of basic chemical principles.
looks like theory talk
so a mitochondria producing energy to sustain a cell is a complete coincedence ?

and is there any evidence that mutation can cause macroevolution

Hell nigga, you just have to point to goose bumps as a holdover from evolution. When animals get excited, their hair stands up to make them look more threatening. When humans get excited, awed, scared etc, they get goosebumps, only they lost their bodyhair during evolution and it serves no purpose. goosebumps literally disprove god, lol

Because they don't want to roll up and die?
Life has evolved to want to live. Any life form that isn't motivated to survive stops existing. See?

There is growing evidence in the field of epigenetics that highly complex organisms can modify hormonal and genetic triggers in their offspring based on what's happened to the parent organism in its lifetime. Mostly the things we've discovered so far deal with diet, and they only seem to extend three generations, but evolution for higher animals and even plants may be somewhat self-drive and less random than originally thought. It's like a weak sauce genetic memory that only goes back to your grandparents. But over countless generations, it may steer the course of evolution

I actually like what I'm reading, what kind of disgusting shitbag kills the one who fed him just to steal
funny thing if those were niggers you would be in another thread asking for the same punishment
>and who thought that mary, the mother of jesus, and mary, the sister of moses, was the same person?
citation needed
>a guy who marries a 9 year old
some bible prophet married a 3 year old girl
mary is thought to be 121-14 when she deliverd jesus

>random mutations happen
that's a one hell of a coincedence
also can you provide evidence mutations can cause macro-evolution ?

>Life has evolved to want to live
that doesn't mean anything

the purely scientific answer is nothing. nothing drives nature. it just happens. dna is subject to imperfect mutations, once the environment changes these mutations will cause individual organisms to die off or survive the new changes, the survivors pass on their genes and species changes

the spiritual answer is that sentience (and whatever comes beyond) is part of god's salvation, and that which is counter-evolutionary is satanic and characteristic of the sinful materialistic universe which imprisons our spirits and separates from god

>you honestly think its going to turn out that the garden of eden, the 6000 year old earth, and the talking snake was right all along?
only children and retards take the old testament seriously

learn to google, you theist nigger

Mutations happen all the time. How do you think the flu comes back with a new strain every year?

If evolution didn't exist, one flu shot would set you up with a lifetime of immunity.

there is none
only examples are of microevolution

>citation needed
This passage is speaking about Mary being pregnant with Jesus: At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" [Qur'an 19:27-28]
>oh sister of aaron lel
>Miriam according to the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament, was the elder sister of Moses by seven years and Aaron by four years, and the only daughter of Amram and Jochebed. She was a prophet and first appears in the Book of Exodus.
>was the elder sister of Moses by seven years and Aaron by four years, and the only daughter of Amram
>only daughter of Amran
>Speaking about Mary, the mother of Jesus, the Quran confuses them and says: And Mary, the daughter of Imran, Sura 66:12
woops lol, nigga shoulda learned to read

that's microevolution
now examples of macroevolution

fossils

>the only Aaron in existence ever is mossa's brother
the quran clrealy states that jesus and moses were sent to different people in different times

haha, to ignore that GIANT contradition, mudslimes have to actually stoop to arguing that Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Mary, the sister of Moses, both had brothers named Aaron and fathers named Amran. lel religion
>the quran clrealy states that jesus and moses were sent to different people in different times
it clearly doesn't understand the long gulf of time between moses and jesus, as it has Allah mentioning the Injeel to moses, who wouldn't have known what the fuck it even was
is this your first day as a muslim?

>what is the driving force
>what makes creatures develop new characteristics to survive

Nothing. This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution.

The less fit members of a species just aren't able to survive to reproductive age, so they don't pass their less fit traits on to their progeny. The result is that the next generation is a little fitter for survival in their environment.

The three things you need are variability, survivability and heritability. Variability is that your progeny aren't identical clones of you, they have some mutations. These mutations aren't trying to be good or bad, they're just random. Survivability is that some of these variations make it easier to survive. Some traits are just better for surviving the environment. Heritability is that although there is some variation in the traits of progeny, there are still inherited traits. So the variations that randomly occurred and ended up better for survival are passed on.

If we have these three things, we have evolution. Conversely if you don't believe in evolution you must explain which of these three basic principles you disagree with.

You are so retarded that I can fully understand people literally choosing to take a raft and try to sail to Europe rather than staying in your country.

the quran is neither accurate history or scientific fact. it's the product of a psychopathic pedophile war monger who stole ideas from christianity to try to control tribal polytheists and turn them into an army to conquer the world

DELET THIS

>bunch of primordial soup bullshit forms
>only the replicating ones by definition would replicate
>durr why do things replicate

>what drives life

Sex feels good, so that's what drives it.

But why does sex feel good to us? Well, life just sorta happened (bound to develop eventually, right?) and the organisms that didn't derive some sort of motivation from reproducing just wouldn't reproduce.

So we WANT to fuck because billions and billions of years ago, some of the first life forms arbitrarily wanted to reproduce.

And every social degeneracy strengthens the claims of religion...

>[It is they] who are [now] following the messenger - the Unlettered Prophet - whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel.
the Unlettered Prophet is Mohammed, the gospel is the book of Issa
Moses was prohecizing about the future which is a thing prophets tend to do

Lol that's because humans only live a pitiful century or so. Also higher organisms seem to employ a form of faster evolution using epigenetic hormone triggers.

Did anyone mention the moths yet? These fucking moths in England or some shit used to come in a bark colored variety but after heavy industry moved into town and started shitting ash everywhere all the moths that were that color died out. Grey moths that matched the soot took over, it only took like 5-10 years to transition from 99% brown moths to 99% grey ones.

ALSO recently in Hawaii a predatory wasp or some shit moved in as an invasive species and it lays its eggs inside living crickets.. so the thing targets crickets by their song. Naturally the loudest cricket have all been horrifically murdered and the beta ass quiet crickets, especially the silent ones have begun to take over. Soon the crickets will all be silent because the loud ones are just asking to have a thousand hungry babies shoved into their brain.

Both the Grey moths and the silent crickets are the result of a mutation that would have otherwise branded them a weirdo freak who would never get laid.

You probably know jack shit about nature, otherwise you would see there are COUNTLESS campers of this happening, we can only see it animals that have several generations in a human lifetime for obvious reasons

GOD DID IT

YOU DELETE THIS NOW

SATAN
HELLFIRE
MORALITY
FEDORAS
ETC

Mary, the sister of Moses, had a brother named Aaron and a father named Amran
Mary, the mother of Jesus (1400 year later) had a brother named Aaron and a father named Amran
Moses brought the Law, and Jesus the Injeel (1400 years later)
Allah mentions the Injeel to Moses while he was alive
top fucking lel
>Sura 7:157
>Allah talking to Moses 1400 years before the Gospel was even written: Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel
>and the Gospel
lol
religious people defend this

Gettin a piece of dat pussi

>war monger
don't you mean great conqueror ?

>Moses was prohecizing about the future which is a thing prophets tend to do
thats god talking retard, not Moses, lel
this is getting sad nigga, just give up

those are all very good questions, user

Do you actually want to understand the answer? Or are you content to say "GOD DID IT" and leave it at that.

ad hominem : the post

>mfw i can't get Common Filth's VIVA LA RRRAZA out of my head now

even better, god telling a prophet of the future books and prophets

I was in the middle of typing up two of em lel

By the way evolution in no way contradicts belief in a higher power it just implies that the little books primitive humans wrote about said higher power are not necessarily that great of a source and should not be taken 100% literally.

If you don't realize all the political wrangling the Roman Empire had over the Bible heavily influenced the content and completely changed the religion, you're in denial about reality. Mankind is flawed. That part they got right. And that's why you can't trust mankind go preserve a single message over a millenia through 5 language translations or so let alone a whole fucking encyclopedic book.

>that's a one hell of a coincedence
Its a great big universe, and we're working with a cosmological timescale.

If you flip a coin enough times, eventually it will land heads up a billion times in a row. Pretty big coincidence, huh?

>God: "bruh, people will read your thesis of Me, and also the Cenobite Verses and the Nigga Balls Chronicles"
>me: "wtf are those"
>God: "oh, theyre not gonna be written for 1400 years. also the guy who writes them will have a mom with the same name as your sister, and her dad will have the same name as your dad lol"
>me: "oh ok lol wtf"
>God: "ikr"

>Mutation. Most are bad, but they result in death, sterility or failure to breed, so they don't accumulate.

This is simply not true. The average human passes on around 200 or so mutations each generation, yet gene mutations are rarely the cause of death in any species. One single gene mutation, even, 200 has in infinitesimal effect on the organism, thus natural selection does not "see" it and cannot remove it.

The implications of these facts are that random, (and thus harmful to the ordered information needed to maintain life) are slowly accumulating each generation. The resuly is that evolution is actually going in reverse, we are overall de-evolving, aka genetic entropy, even if natural selection can sometimes favor certain traits. pic related, the author is a phd geneticist

Most creationists believe that the genesis flood is responsible for .burring all the biomass which than turned into all the planets oil and coal. Fact: if all the worlds fossil fuels released their co2 into the atmosphere, there would be:

Complete melting of Antarctica, opening up a whole new continent for life to grow

More co2 in the atmosphere would mean more plant growth

increased global temps would cause more ocean evaporation, leading to more rainfall, allowing plants to grow more and would likely make deserts more fertile.

So in fact, an actual global garden of Eden is possible. Even many religions teach that there was a paradise in the earths early history.

Don't overthink it.

There's no force or intelligence behind natural selection, it's just what happens - traits that are benign or actively increase an organism's chances of surviving long enough to breed are more likely to be passed on, traits that actively hurt their chances are less likely to be passed on. Over thousands or millions of generations those little changes add up. Take something like orchids as an example. Here's a family of plants that, over millions of years, evolved such that their petals started to resemble females of the species that pollinated them, tricking insects into pollinating them more. On its face that seems like something that couldn't possibly happen by random.

But imagine this:


You find yourself in a darkened theater. In the center of the stage is an easel with a canvas on it. You walk nervously out onto the stage. You can't see anyone in the theater, but you can hear the murmurs and coughs of the audience.

Not knowing what else to do you approach the easel, pick up a pencil next to it, and draw a line on the canvas. You hear a scattering of golf claps. You draw another line. The applause increases. Another. It increases again. You draw another, but this time the applause fades and you swear you hear someone call you a faggot. You quickly erase the line you just drew and try again. The applause resumes.

This pattern continues. Sometimes the applause increases, sometimes it fades, sometimes you aren't really sure which and have to take your best guess. Eventually, hundreds of lines later, to the sound of thunderous applause you take a step back to see that the drawing on the canvas now vaguely resembles a pair of tits. The lights in the theater turn on and you turn around to realize that the audience is filled with thousands of horny teenage boys desperately fapping and applauding to your crappy tits.


That's evolution - drawing a crude pair of tits through four hundred iterations of trial and error.


(.) (.)

>only children and retards take the old testament seriously
how can christianity be true, but the bible false?
why would God lie to us, instead of properly explaining the history and the mechanics of this world he created?

Why is it that all holy books only demonstrate a level of knowledge equal to that of humans at the time?

isn't it equally logical to believe of a prime mover ?

the greatest conqueror is christ, whose message has converted the persecutors of the faith. islam converts through force, yet not a drop of roman blood was shed to turn europa christian

The Lord works in mysterious ways, sonny

basically this.

youtube.com/watch?v=O6gPPj8B_nU

This is a good analogy lol

its so sad what this religious shit does to us
you cant think about it critically and your just scrambling for an answer
when you pray and make dua to allah, think about how when Muhammad married Aisha and took her home, she took her toys with her
because she was a child
and he fucked her at age 9
>Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
>Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236
this is your dude lol

>Most creationists believe that the genesis flood is responsible for .burring all the biomass which than turned into all the planets oil and coal. Fact: if all the worlds fossil fuels released their co2 into the atmosphere, there would be:
howd those animals get to australia tho and all those islands tho

In case you missed it

There's many more examples of a hit like that bit these ones are fun because they are completely the product of unintended consequences of human action

discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/

The ones who can't adapt don't breed

That's it.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But to shut down discussion with an appeal to centuries old authority is backwards.

What created God?
Does God work within the physical constrains of our universe? if not, why not
How did God create the universe?
How did God create life?

Dying isn't a naturally selected characteristic.

Read more.

But since you're a muslim you should probably just kill yourself.

Ecological pressures and competition for resources, where pressures are high and especially where resources are scarce is where you find the highest incidences if adaptation.

pls respond

Come back when you've graduated from >>>/kindergarten/

Reminder to report all underageb&.

so your argument is its ok to fuck kids because other people used to do it to?
seriously?
>worships a murder
>bruh, murdering is uncivil, we shouldnt do it, and you shouldnt worship a savage who says it ok to do
>BUT OTHER PEOPLE MURDERED OTHER PEOPLE IN THE PAST SO ITS OK

>why don't animals all just curl up and die for no reason oh it must be because of Jesus

macroevolution is a species turning to a whole other species

These words came from the book "The Clansman: An Historical Romance of the Ku Klux Klan" written in 1905 by Thomas F. Dixon Jr. Literally takes 30 seconds on goggle to find this.

You're an honorary nigger for intentionally misquoting someone.

and your argument is that we shiould wait an arbitrart 6-8 years after they begin ovulation because...somebody told you so?

Nature intended for girls to have sex as soon as they could bleed. The only reason you think otherwise is because youve been manipulated.

>so your argument is its ok to fuck kids because other people used to do it to?
menstrautions is nature's way of telling a female she can get pregnant

i actually laughed

always everyone dismisses what they don't like.

More to the point:

>why is there no animal today that just kill itself?
>why are there no specie that just constantly seek to die?
>can evolution explain this?

How can you be this fucking dense? The only fucking species that are going to survive are those that have a drive for life.

Fucking hell.

microevolution and macroevolution is a false dichotomy dreamed up by backpedalling chritian """scientists"""

If microevolution exists, why can't those small changes compound over time? What is stopping it?

So far we have learned:

>Worship God because science is completely wrong, and the following memes: Garden of Eden, Worldwide Flood, Jew Who Is His Own Dad, Wandering Pedophile Prophet, and Talking Snakes will all turn out to have been right all along.
>Two Marys in the Quran have the same brother and the same dad but are totes different people, lol.
>God told Moses people were reading the Injeel (not four gospels, one, THE gospel) in the future even though that's meaningless to him.
>It's ok to fuck kids because some people in the distant past did it. So fuck away.
>If a guy commits murder, you should burn his eyes shut and cut off his hands and feet, and the guy who does this is a Living Message of Mercy to Mankind
>all of this and more is much better than learning and improving our understanding about life as we go

It's because of the ability to consent you fucking nigger.

Slit your throat.

and the fact that their hips have not yet developed for childbirth?

I'm only being a devil's advocate, but how does a moth changing color a la "compound" into something like a stag beetle?

you seem upset

WILL

consent requires a rational mind

women are inherently irrational, it doesn't matter how old they are

oh, yea, 9 year olds are fertile as hell, lmao
the sahih sunna also says he beat her ass too
>but but Hes a Mercy to Mankind!!

Define species

Protip

You fucking can't because it's a made up human thing

If you're talking a population which splits in such a way that they no longer preferentially breed with one another there are a huge number of birds which do this, most are the colorful tropical kind

If you're talking a species which can no longer breed with one another, I remember reading about a species of fish recently that were in two parts of a lake that basically got split in half.

The truth is if someone granted you immortality and shoved your ass into a rockface and forced you to watch evolution unfold over millenia, I'm not entirely sure you'd believe it.

but regardless, what is there to eat in this house, that is the important question. tehe

after getting repeadly BTFO this whole thread, much to my amusement, you FINALLY pull out the umad defense
>u mad lel
>why us mad

>what drives life

The will to live

Sex

That's an argument for the unlimited rape of wo-

I get it now.

(You should be killed by the way.)

based nip