Has internet animation finally reached its end?

Has internet animation finally reached its end?

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People expect to make a living from making this amateur hour MSPaint shit, and can't create it without YouTube and Patreon bux?

You have to make 5 minute (10 minute optimal) animations to make anything.

Ex: my 2 million 1 minute long animation earned around 300-700$.

My 11 minute long animation earned over 11,000.

Internet animation itself has not reached an end. However, the means of making a living by doing animations has yet to be completely optimized.

If I were an animator, I'd try to cheat the system by posting dailies every day that I'm not posting a full animation. For example, at the beginning of a month, I'd post a finished animation. Every day or every other day after that, I'd post an in-progress video giving a look at the creative process behind the animation, from the initial storyboarding to the rough cuts to the close-to-final output. That way, I could have a daily or near-daily output of material while still being able to spend time working on another cartoon.

They're salty because they have to work for a living

who jizzes on the floor ?

Exactly, drawing isn't a real job.

here is socialblades top 10 by score

socialblade.com/youtube/top

click on anything with "toy" in the title, go ahead

Holy shit, someone who gets this many views posts on Sup Forums?

Who are you?

Or you could live-stream the animation process. Doesn't Youtube pay by minutes watched or something?

God I hope so

Yep. The sweet spot is around 10 minutes, which is why let's play channels are thriving right now.

Sup Forums isn't that obscure to habitual internet users, so it could be fucking anyone. Who do you want it to be?
>inb4 Justin roliand

>said the person with no artistic ability

If the goal is to just game YouTube for money then the solution is to make the videos longer by any means necessary.

Why waste time doing something useless?

Oney? Any of the sleepy cast retards?

>Has internet animation finally reached its end?
What kind of a stupid question is that? As if not being able to make a living off of making short shitty cartoons you made in flash on youtube means nobody will ever upload an original animation to the internet. Really, if you're so stupid that you honestly meant to ask this question you should kill yourself because you're taking up valuable resources that could go to more reputable human beings.

It works for comics

Did Colossal ever get his video back from fouesyshit?

Who gives a shit?

I do obviously. Fouesy is a scumbag.

They're both nobodies.

I made the R&M court thing

...

The only ones thriving are the lucky few to get flagged by YT system and actually promoted. For every 100k view a day let's play channel there are thousands who get almost nothing due to no promotion on YT.

You probably won't be able to answer this, but let's assume that I'm producing 10 minute episodes. How many how many zero's do you need on your view count before you start getting over $1000 for it?

I'm an animator as well and I can produce 10 minutes every two weeks, but that's if I'm cutting a lot of corners. 10 minutes a month is probably as much as I can do while still keeping it pretty.

>using Youtube to host content
Yeah because having compressed to shit video and getting $100 for your hard work that took an entire month is totally worth it.

>For every 100k view a day let's play channel there are thousands who get almost nothing due to no promotion on YT.
To be fair, those thousands suck ass.

The video is 11 minutes long, has 3.2 million views, has an average watch time of 5 minutes.

Bassicly, when your video is over 10 minutes long you get access to midroll ads that are not available to shorter videos (these are the money makers).

Also it matters how much of said video people watch before clicking off (mine averaged 6 minutes).

Same logic applies to any video.

Say you have a 10 minute letsplay video that has 200k views and an animation with 400k views but its 1 minute long.

If the average watch time for the 200k video is 2 minutes or more, it will earn more than the 1 minute animation that has double the views.

As oppose to what, jack ass?
Using a website nobody else fucking knows about and making $0 because nobody fucking cares about the compression not being fucking perfect?

How about using Youtube to gain fans then sending them over to Patreon to get HD video and support their favorite creator?

Youtube should be for marketing purposes only, it's worthless for anything else at this point.

Okay, so the average watch time is really what matters here. But you'd probably need over a 200,000 views on a 10 minute animation to hit the $1000 mark? I mostly do freelancing for commercials and game companies, never really considered Youtube since all the animators I know said it wasn't viable.

The problem is, if you try to get into it now and you're not an established animator, it's going to be a huge uphill battle to get noticed. You'll be putting out animations once a month (or once every 2 months), and youtube will barely promote you because of how short the videos are and how infrequent the uploads are, the system is stacked agaisn't you. If you do have 100k+ subs then it is possible to do.

Ex: Prank time

Absolutely beautiful animation, was front paged on reddit, only 726k views:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZBvbNs7WSII

vs any random 1 million + sub letsplayers average video has 2x the view count per video every day.

So what did YouTube do to make animation harder for animators? I don't keep up with this stuff, at all.

Well the point I was making is that it is a self feeding system. The more views you get the more YT promotes your videos by adding them to recommended lists or side bars while watching videos. The more promotion you get the more traffic your channel will have and more views.

On the opposite end if your videos get fewer views you get no promotion at all. No promotion mean your videos will not be seen by anyone leading to fewer views.

So basically if you rely on youtube alone to reach out to grow an audience you are screwed. Even if you put out a 15-30 min video every day for 3 years like I have.

In a nutshell, you get paid way more if your video is longer, viewcount has become less important. Animation takes a lot of resources to make long. Let's play videos (people playing videogames) can easily be made much longer, so that's the ideal format for youtube now.

Pre 2013, your earnings were based on views and not lenght.

So if your animation was only a minute long, but had 2 million views it would earn a fuckton because of said views.

What happened was, replygirls started spammin their shitty e-whore videos that were 10-30 seconds long, and it was them doing nothing but replying to each other and gaining millions of views exploiting the system.

So youtube decided enough was enough, and they made view count irrelevant to earnings, and instead based it on watch time. This is why vlogs and letsplays skyrocketed: their videos hit that 10 minute mark in lenght, allowed more ad placements throughout video, and could be made frequently guaranteeing that people would actively watch and follow said people and advertises could cater to loyal fanbase.

This however absolutely fucked all short form content, and i really don't think they were thinking about it when they made the change, but there's no real way to "fix" it without some kind of special category for animators (which i doubt will ever happen).

So a bunch of teen girls killed animation on youtube.

People don't donate to animator patreons that do funny animations or safe content really. Because it takes so long to put out one video, patreon supports feel like they are paying for nothing and drop pledges. This is why people like ricepirate, gonzo and so on with millions of subs have a patreon thats under a $1000.

i dont even understand why youtube changed the system to work off length

i doubt watching a video for longer will make you more likely to click on an ad,

Long animations are just worthless shit with people talking for 99% of the time. Unless you Patreon you have to do this. You can't spend 100 hours on a video that makes $200 and have that be your career.

I feel like a lot of the people that made Youtube matter are changing gears to other sites. Most of the lets-players and gamers do Twitch streams and just upload the video to youtube after the fact, or they will upload videos but their main 'face' will be on Twitch. I heard that most content creators on Youtube have started making money through alternate means such as merch and etc.

Patreon is just the most recent way for people to support content creators, though there are some that are trying to drain people for everything they are worth...

>i dont even understand why youtube changed the system to work off length
Blame reply girls.

I make small games and put it out for free but I'm planning on selling bonus content along-side each production in case anyone likes it. Just some extra art, comics and behind the scenes stuff with a $1 minimum. My work isn't the least bit consistent, so Patreon was never a good option for me.

>Has internet animation finally reached its end?
I would say it hasn't even started yet, there is so much potential and yet no one actually really dives into it

Hope it goes well, keep building an audience. But just saying as a "big" animator on youtube, it is quite hard to earn anything and working in a studio would far be more stable/profitable (and using youtube for passion projects rather than main income).

Is there something preventing people from making a high quality 10-30 minute long animation series or are short Paint-tier doodles and flash animations just the only thing anyone has the talent for?

Don't procreate.

Yeah, a lot of fucking time is preventing anyone. Unless you're an animator you just don't understand how much time and work it takes to produce long content.

>have the artistic talent to draw wonderful pictures (people on Sup Forums have given me genuine praise) although i do not practice
>don't even draw, i read and write and if im emotionally 'into it' my prose is like Joyce's

also making flash animations especially Lyle's can't be seen as a real job

it's all soulless

because it would take fucking forever
with the length system you cannot possibly keep up with the easy to make long stuff.

Imagine how long it takes any given artist to complete one nice looking picture.

Now multiply that by thousands. That's animation.

As long as websites can allow people to support themselves financially from their animation work, animation will always be on the internet.

Whoops too bad sites like YouTube changing the way they work means animators can't support themselves financially.

The Japanese are able to do it, so you are officially out of excuses.

The Japanese work like slaves for slave wages and have multiple teams of people working on any given project. But yeah they still produce much better work overall.

I was not talking about professional animation.

Well if I'm doing a longer production like that, I'd honestly want some sort of pay-off for it. While roughing out animation is pretty fun, cleaning/tweening takes ages and gets rather tedious.

What we're discussing is that Youtube relies on total watch time to determine ad-revenue, that makes short animations not viable. But the other problem is longer productions take a lot of time to make, so where youtube's systems favors content creators who push out regular releases, releasing less often means those productions don't get any exposure either. To be viable, you'd have to both release content regularly and produce stuff that's over 10 minutes, which is extremely difficult to do as an animator.

You do realize Japanese animators are all starving and eating ramen 24/7, get paid worse than fast food workers and only do it because of their love? Do you want animators in the west to do that as well while letsplays make millions for taking a shit?

Post some examples of these solo Japanese indie animations then.

western animators have no love for the craft. art has gone to the devil

Go ahead and explain how a western animator can earn money while working on a 30 minute animation that as a solo person takes 1-2 years to make of every day work for 6-8 hours.

People having a good quality of life is ultimately more important than moving pictures.

Again, not talking about professional animation. I don't know why people think I am.

Also the pay for animators in Japan varies according to whether they're in-between or key animators, who they work for and how fast they are.

I didn't say anything about solo animation, but Makoto Shinkai did create Voices of a Distant Star by himself except for the music. Atsuya Yuki made Cencoroll mostly by himself.

youtube.com/watch?v=kwBcyUGXI2s

youtube.com/watch?v=pjfyrZjm-cs

It's not impossible, but animation is incredibly time consuming. The output of a professional animator is in the range of seconds per day, so even a really fast one who can average ten seconds per day would spend two months on that ten-minute short. You get some gems, like "The Old Man and The Sea", but they're labors of love that take years and years of work.

>doesn't know that people who are the most deprived and eccentric make the best work

>that shitty animation
No wonder the Japs can do it all by themselves, it's barely animated.

They also tend to die young, alone and miserable.

Unless time works differently in Japan, this isn't a good reason. People also spend ages making video games independently.

Shinkai did the backgrounds, effects and the 3D and 2D animation by himself. The movie is 24 minutes long. Censoroll has much more intricate animation.

Simply having animation doesn't mean anything, because it can mean stick figures or terrible flash animation.

>young
not true
>alone
everyone does
>miserable
only atheists like tolstoy

pretty much this.

the skit seems kinda over animated. you don't need that much character expression or effort in a simple fap joke. the joke would still hold up even if you used asdfmovie figures

You must realize that so are you. If you truly believe it's that easy to produce quality content and if you're calling for people to start working already, you don't have any reason to be slacking off either. Lack of artistic talent isn't an excuse when other creators have showed that it's possible to make a series a success despite simplistic art (for example xkcd, South Park, early One-punch man).

Once again girls ruin everything.
Fuck, 7 year old me was right.

I'm not an animator.

Some hack making an "animation" consisting of two minutes of wacky faces doesn't deserve shittons of cash.

Neither do let's players. They put in literally no effort and earn millions by exploiting the system.

>this isn't a good reason.
In what fucking universe? Spending hundreds or thousands of hours of your life on difficult and tedious work that doesn't even make you any money at the end of the day and won't be appreciated by most audiences is completely insane. The people who do it are true artists and deserve all kinds of respect, but demanding or expecting it of anyone is ridiculous.

An animated project doesn't require only animators, it also needs concept artists, background artists, storyboarders, writers, and so on. Surely there's something you could do other than demand other people to work for your amusement. If that's your only skill, just offer a team your money and hire them to create some content you want to see.

Or you could learn how to animate yourself, it's not that hard to learn how to do it. The biggest obstacle is just that creating animated content takes a lot of time and effort from you. But you seem to be of the opinion that they're not that important anyway.

Again, if the Japanese can do it--and Europeans too I believe--then what is the problem in America? People make short low quality YouTube animations and complain it's too slow and too hard and too expensive to make proper animation. I guess it's the same with everyone running to Patreon and Kickstarter for every little thing now.

I know what is involved in creating animation, and this has nothing to do with me.

>Let's play videos
Wait, are those okay to monetize?

Also, you don't actually need separate people to create concept art, storyboards and scripts.

>if the Japanese can do it
They can't.
>--and Europeans too I believe--
Your belief is wrong.

The people who are obsessed enough to spend years of their lives making high-quality animation by themselves simply for the love of the art come from all over the world and aren't common anywhere.

Sure, you can do all of that yourself but it's all increasing your workload on a project that was never going to pay the bills in the first place.

>They can't.
But they can.

>Your belief is wrong.
I've seen some nice looking independent European animation.

>by themselves
Again, I never said anything about solo animation. Is this some American thing too, thinking that independent animation has to be done alone?

>Sure, you can do all of that yourself but it's all increasing your workload on a project that was never going to pay the bills in the first place.
Professionals do it too.

Post them.

Amazing. Reminds me of Ian Miller's animations.

most americans think that in order to be an indie cartoonist you need to draw every single frame 24 frames per second, instead of cutting corners here and there like anime has done for decades now. With good direction you can easily pass off stills as animation and make it look good

Thank god, Internet animation was an abomination to begin with that started in the cess pit that was NewgStickdeath

>But they can.
What on Earth makes you believe that animation requires less time and effort if you do it in Japan?

>I've seen some nice looking independent European animation.
So?

>Again, I never said anything about solo animation. Is this some American thing too, thinking that independent animation has to be done alone?
If your working in a team, then you need to be able to pay wages / living costs for all of the team members. You're not magically making more money per person-month. If anything, you're probably making less.

>Professionals do it too.
By hiring people living in places where work is dirt cheap.

Pretty much the only way to do an online series is either get lucky and have netflix pay for it or youtube red (their first animated series starring all your favorite letsplayers tubefilter.com/2016/11/03/vanoss-seananners-mr-sark-paranormal-action-squad-youtube-red/ )

>What on Earth makes you believe that animation requires less time and effort if you do it in Japan?
What on Earth made you think I ever said such a thing?

>So?
What do you mean "so"?

>If your working in a team, then you need to be able to pay wages / living costs for all of the team members.
Not necessarily.

>By hiring people living in places where work is dirt cheap.
What? I am talking about people Hayao Miyazaki doing direction, storyboarding, writing, character design and mechanical design by themselves. A more recent example I know of is Ryosuke Nakamura directing, writing and partially storyboarding Grimgar and also directing the voice actors.

According to the internet only STEM majors are supposed to make money. Nothing else constitutes "real work".

grandma's best boy

I remember getting into Youtube monetization of my animation a few months before this change. I went from "Holy crap, I might actually be able to pay the bills with this" to "I can't even afford a week's groceries on this" overnight.

Yea... good times. It's why zeruel/oney/psychopebbles/ricepirate/etc stopped making animations on yt.

Or, overlooked option two. They stop suffering from their own naivety and grow the fuck up, leading to them getting a job that sustains them.

This option is chosen more often.

wow that's way worse than expected. I thought youtubers were just bitching when they had like 500k views and talked poverty. now I see the problem.

If they're funny they deserve money. If they have billions of views they usually are.

The real scams are those generic nursery rhyme videos that inexplicably have billions of views. Pretty sure some crafty Poos are gaming the system somehow.

Just so you know, SocialBlade's and any of the YouTube income estimators are off by a considerable margin. Most of those sites say my channel should be netting me something like $150k-$324k, but the reality is that my yearly take is closer to $13k. I'm also fully independent and not in any network.

>Pretty sure some crafty Poos are gaming the system somehow.

I thought it was just a matter of them being catered to Indian kids learning English, and then popularly being used as a learning tool in India? I mean, India has over a billion people, you don't really need to game the system if you manage to make the videos accepted as a free teaching aid.

youtube.com/channel/UC0gNKhFMg-bKyNNZ_MB3D9Q

this pile of shit is making literally tens of millions a year. the views look botted but they aren't, it's kinda ingenious.

their videos have no dialogue whatsoever, just actions in popular IP characters. because of that children from any and every nation watches it as no language is required.