I'm an alcoholic who desperately wants to believe in God, but my liberal...

I'm an alcoholic who desperately wants to believe in God, but my liberal, secular upbringing has made me more or less incapable of rationalizing religious belief

Help me believe in God, Sup Forums, I'm losing it

Other urls found in this thread:

ccel.org/ccel/lawrence/practice.pdf
ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.pdf
quies.org/Spiritual-Combat_Scupoli.pdf
sacred-texts.com/chr/lots/
dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf
worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/content.htm
gutenberg.org/files/470/470-h/470-h.htm
gutenberg.org/cache/epub/130/pg130-images.html
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/prayers-and-devotions/rosaries/how-to-pray-the-rosary.cfm
bartleby.com/108/40/5.html)
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

There isn't one. Religion is a control mechanism deployed by secret societies to bring you to heel.

Why do you want to be a slave?

I've been an atheist since I was like 15 and it gave me nothing, I tried to kill myself two years ago but I pussed out

I'm 26 now and all I do is work and drink, I want a stronger connection to life and my heritage

stop drinking for the sake of your own health
stop wanting to hold false faith for the sake of your own sanity

Probably isn't a god buddy. But, you can still have faith. Have faith that all the values that your chosen religion adheres to will blossom and work towards that.

Most religions, except the peaceful one, outwardly espouse a lot of beautiful things. You can believe in the beliefs, not the god.

>rationalizing
>beliefs
That's not how it works, just do the stuff written

sadly, you will just have to hit rock bottom first...

Go listen/watch some Joseph Prince

I can prove that God is real by showing you his corpse. Spoiler: it's the Bible Belt.

I want to believe that the virtues of Christianity are the basis of the western morals that I'd like to uphold, but I've sunk so far into the bottle that I have a hard time caring enough to change myself to uphold those morals

I really don't give a shit at this point, but I still can't shake the feeling that I have an obligation to fight for the values I benefit from

No god above, friend. You need to carve out your own path, make the most out of life, one day at a time. False belief won't get you through the day, if you know it's a lie.

You are now at a fork-road.
You can either choose to live a lie and feign happiness or know the truth and be miserable.
Either way, don't waste your time by drinking, rather, try to better yourself by reading a book, going to the gym or studying and work towards a goal or a dream.

Life is God separating the wheat from the chaff.

You're having an existential crisis.

Jesus was sent to bring His flock home, and wash away our sins, since sin cannot exist in the presence of Father God. Jesus brings us home to the Father.

That's how I currently understand things.

>Gott ist tot, und wir haben ihn getötet.

Remember that.

It's possible to believe in/entertain the idea of a god without blindly following an organized religion. I'd wager that's the only way to actually connect with a god if there is one. By following an organized religion you're following people(or as they would say, false idols), not a god. But yeah, you won't ever believe in a god without first admitting to yourself that there might exist a god, so that's step number one OP.

Where's the problem? You are in USA, it's not like you going to get beheaded.
Why do you want to believe in god if you don't need to?

Take LSD and or ecstasy in a quiet and safe place. You will understand.

ignore the christians here, they don't have a clue and will be triggered by this. they are lying to themselves and each other.

>Life is God separating the wheat from the chaff.
Wouldn't an all loving god just let us live in a wonderful lalaland marxist utopia.

Why torture people to "seperate the wheat from the chaff"

Birth conditions alone would heavily influence that separation and thus make the results no where close to objective. If God was just wouldn't he give every soul an equal chance, and make all of our birth conditions equal.

What a joke.

No but God definitely is all powerful and all good, that's why he fixes nothing, and allows suffering.

Or is God not good now? Is he beyond human understanding and thus completely pointless to follow or adhere to?

why do you need to believe in god when you can choose to live according to the same code without it?
if you really need a master or fear to keep you in line then start going to church or something. start going to church anyway, the social aspect and sense of community will probably fill the void you feel in your life. you don't need to believe to attend church, you just need to not judge people who do because you are in their house.

I don't speak German, what does that mean?

You lack the will to be true to yourself. You are an alcoholic because you lie to yourself that it is out of your control.The concept of God provides an external power that can somehow make you change your ways, but its a fantasy man. You are out there drowning in the sea and you need a lifeboat, god is not that lifeboat. Instead it should be a version of self that you want to be in the future. Only that guy can save you.

I feel like my life is meaningless and I'm not doing anything

I hope that believing in God and maybe going to church will help me find some sort of purpose, at the least I might meet some nice people

Ecstacy in a quiet place? No go out dancing on x. Acid take and walk around a forest.

>I've been an atheist since I was like 15 and it gave me nothing

Religion will gave you nothing too, it is your responsability.
But if you want to be totally controlled by a zealot group, join scientology.

Watch christian movies. I would say its best way.

you can do this without this fairy tale shit

LSD/psilocybin a couple times probably doesn't hurt, but ecstasy will just make you want to kill yourself even more, don't do that.

Instead of looking for strength outside of yourself, find the strength that's already inside of you. Changing your life requires taking positive action. Get a script for Antabuse, eat healthy, exercise, pick up a hobby. Nobody, not even God, can do it for you.

Pray. This is the first and most essential thing. Ultimately nothing will happen unless you pray. It doesn't matter if you don't yet believe in God; God still respects the prayer of someone doesn't yet believe, because it shows humility, the acknowledgement that one needs God. You should pray the Our Father and the Hail Mary, but you can also add any prayer of your own / just talk to God.

For reading, read the New Testament, especially the gospels.
You can also read:
ccel.org/ccel/lawrence/practice.pdf
ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.pdf
quies.org/Spiritual-Combat_Scupoli.pdf
sacred-texts.com/chr/lots/

Don't try to rationalise. There comes a point when you realise that you're so fucked up that perhaps you can't depend entirely on your own reason. Faith is not against reason, but the intellect needs to be purified before it can see the truths of faith in a clear light.

If your reason keeps on biting you, you can read these to calm you down:
dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf
worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/content.htm
gutenberg.org/files/470/470-h/470-h.htm
gutenberg.org/cache/epub/130/pg130-images.html

God bless you.

Have you tried praying?

Bible says that a mustard seed's worth of faith can move mountains.

Try praying with faith. If God is real, it will work.

>not reading quran explorer
>claming to understand what is meant when the word god is used

Is modern Christianity really zealous, though? I've known a lot of Christians over the years and almost none of them have tried to push me into faith

In fact, most of them have never really talked about faith outside of saying it's important to them, there was no coercion or "you NEED to believe in God" or any of that

Fact is, religion just ain't rational. As humans, we aren't fully rational creatures, and in-fact, most decisions we make have no rational basis. Favorite color? Irrational. Ideal house? Irrational. Love of your life? Irrational.

Religion is the same way. It's a feeling more than a thought process, and belief is just expressing it and reinforcing it, hopefully for the betterment of your mental health and social standing. Belief in God comes naturally when you want it and stop trying to find a logical reason for it. Just like enjoying a cool breeze, it doesn't mean you're actively thinking about enjoying the breeze. You just feel that it is good.

It's a copy/paste, but it's decent and I can answer questions from there:

To begin, to apostolic thought God is not some anthropomorphic individual inside or outside the universe, though anthropomorphism may be useful to us. God is the willful and constant ground of reality, maintaining it at all times. Thus God does not interact with the universe in a physical way (moving, acting upon things) insofar as you wouldn't mess with sound waves directly to change the current song. Rather, as with God's creative ability, you'd simply change what the jukebox plays.

In the Catholic worldview, our desires have an inherent irrationality to them. This is the make up of our "fallen state" that you hear about in Christian thought. This does not mean we gained this irrationality but rather lost assistance against it. Our desires aren't bad but they can be abused and become disordered outside of our reason. There is also our conscience. We do not define the law our conscience works by (though our understanding of the world through reason will decide how we interpret it) and that conscience must be followed for the good of man. Else there is guilt (given they don't numb their own conscience). Our conscience is where Catholics believe God directs man toward his will and also a mechanism by which man may commune with God. God's will being, given's God's position in relation to creation, synonymous with the good of something.


This is where the term "follow your conscience" comes from and is generally what Catholics support. However, Catholics would also give a general answer on what the overall goal of God's will for man is that is expressed through the conscience and that is a life of love. However, not love in the romantic, brotherly, or sexual sense but love in the traditional way: The willing of the good of the other without self-interest. A selfless and sacrificial love.

Part 1/2

God is a scientific concept, which is true, yet extremely difficult to define because it is the primus and terminus of all other variations of knowledge.

I haven't tried praying, it seems kind of silly to do while alone in my room after 26 years of being told that religion is stupid bullshit

This is the problem I'm having, I want to look into it but I've been told my entire life that it's retarded fake nonsense, so I don't really even know where to start

Part 2/2

A life dedicated towards this is what Catholics would say is a life of virtue and is seen as saintly. This is the fulfillment of the conscience (or more accurately the fulfillment of the man) and thus a life of an inner joy.

However this runs up against our irrational desires and so the Catholics assert the only proper solution here is not to deny desires overtly but tame their irrationality. This is where much Christian struggle takes place. Sin is not something that has real existence but it understood as separations from our fulfillment in love. This can reflect small details (venial sins) or direct separations of interest (mortal sins). This change is absolutely not easy as it's the heart of challenge. As the heart of a person changes and becomes softer so to does the care of others and your own faults become more apparent and more dire to them. Here only a coward gives in to this reality and hardens their heart again. Catholic thought couples this softening of heart with courage to face struggles inside and out. The Christian monks dedicate themselves to that manner of work. However in no case are we perfect. The glory of the saints never came from assumed perfection but rather through admittance of faults and the constant courage to fight for the good despite it.

God's will for us and all things is that we adhere to the natural purposes laid out for us for our good - that inner joy - rather than just material flourishing. What burdens we bear and what blessings we gain are not for us as tests or rewards in this life but our methods for growth as God means the best for us at all times. Even if a heart must be broken first to be opened. What tempts and tests us are our own desires. However, there must be motivation to expect from God what is best for us and despite situations knowing that following the good will lead us in the right direction for it rather than giving in to desires blindly. What is necessary there is faith.

WHY DO YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD?

GOD DOESNT CARE IF YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR NOT

AND IT WONT BUY YOU ANY GOOD MORTAL POINT IF YOU DO.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, GOD MAY TAKE NOTICE OF YOU

THEN YOUR REAL MISERY WILL BEGIN

You are going to meet same wreck of people in church like you are, where you will engage in group psychosis to excuse yourself, which is why religions are evil, they lack any sense of morals. At least now you know you are a wreck, try to fix yourself. Create a plan to slowly reduce alcohol consumption and instead do something else.

>Christianity

I did not mention Christianity in my post.

At 26 I'm sure you've done much sillier things in your life than sitting in your room alone and praying.

Probably this, but here's some random bits of advice.

One of the main platitudes in religious AA/rehab type deals is "fake it till you make it." So you're supposed to kneel and pray 5 times a day or whatever asking for help, even if you spend the whole time thinking it's a retarded waste of time. In time it will become a habit and you'll start to see value in it, even if you never start believing in God.

And the whole "giving in to a higher power" thing doesn't really need to be God. The higher power you put faith in can just be the actual AA/recovery process. It's more about getting past the feelings (which are particularly strong with atheism fags) that you're too smart or too sick to be cured by this retarded process of sitting in church basements telling stories. It may work for the plebs, but not for you. Just recognize that plenty of people alot smarter than you and alot more hopelessly addicted than you have really improved their lives by fully committing to the stupid process, so just do it.

I'm not advocating you follow any religion. Just realize the evil in this world is part of a mosaic which is much larger than the surface mind can visualize.
You can question why evil exists but if you see life is beautiful beyond the perspective of an exhausted man who has found solace in substances, how much more solace can you find then in the origin of all substances and formations?

What else do I do? If I don't drink I start to lose my mind, and I can't sleep if I didn't drink that night

Oh, and the Psalms are also very good, as well as the Book of Job, and Ecclesiastes. Both of the latter books and much of the Psalms are written from the perspective of someone who is in, or has been in, great hardship.

Ecclesiastes is a good place to start. Everyone who reads Ecclesiastes likes it because it's so well written. The King James version is a good one.

I'm conservative as fuck and your god isn't real. You cannot, CAN NOT claim to be "red pilled" if you believe all the ridiculous moronic myths compiled in the desert by goatfuckers about an angry skywizard who jacks off to praise from his illiterate dust-children and demands they cut off their foreskins and genocide their neighbors in the next village over, which is the entire extent of the world imagined by these primitive savages.

You didn't, but I'm American so Christianity is the most readily available faith to me

Fair point, though most of my silly actions were done in my teens

The last three or four years of my life have been more or less sequestered and isolated

I'm struggling with it myself, but in the times I've been sober, I find meditation and research to be good outlets. Find a hobby that consumes a lot of time and focus. Something you can't do while drunk. It can help.

Believers are not slaves. That's the entire point of freewill. Our Creator gave us freewill so we would not be slaves, so that we can question authority. This is why Adam was able to bite the apple. The love of God is not genuine if there is no freewill.

For starters don't buy more alcohol, buy something else. Every addict thinks he can't do it, but then many do it anyway.

This is the best post and I enjoy it a lot.
I'm painfully tired and wish I could add to this but you did an excellent job. Bless you, user.

How do you pray? Honestly asking, I don't know how

>Fact is, religion just ain't rational.

Before you say that again, please read this:
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm

>t seems kind of silly to do while alone in my room after 26 years of being told that religion is stupid bullshit

Try meditating

Or maybe he's just given up, I sure as fuck would.

Go ahead and attack me all you want, he has. I don't give a flying fuck about anyone outside of my own country, I have no reason to. If he does exist? I understand why he doesn't hear our own faggot calls, my own alone! You know why? Because we're godforsaken, this country is garbage and we deserve everything coming to us because of our degeneracy.

Trump is right, but even he himself has his flaws if you want to apply the moral standard to him. If I was God, I wouldn't answer a call until I saw otherwise.

Man the fuck up.

You wont find any meaning or purpose in religion. Its a crutch.

What a waste of a mind.

I've been researching more lately, that's actually a good suggestion

It becomes routine, you buy a pack of beer, some smokes, and a bottle of liquor and that's your night

It's an excuse, I know, but there it is

>literally a novel
Are you serious? First part has 102 segments. Why would I invest so much time into it.

>meditating
Are you trying to make him even more liberal than he is?

>Japs

How do I meditate?

Basically he's trying to show you scholasticism/neoscholasticism and show completely rational schools in religion.

There are scientifically proven benefits to sitting still and quieting your mind.
It's pretty simple, though everyone finds their ideal method. It's pretty much just sitting still, eyes closed and trying to relax and calm your thoughts as much as possible, making your breathing constant and slow. Helps with stress.

That's the same thing that praying but instead to talking to nothing you listen to nothing talking to you

>You cannot, CAN NOT claim to be "red pilled" if you believe all the ridiculous moronic myths compiled in the desert by goatfuckers about an angry skywizard who jacks off to praise from his illiterate dust-children and demands they cut off their foreskins and genocide their neighbors in the next village over, which is the entire extent of the world imagined by these primitive savages.

This is totally true. This is why we promote Christianity instead.

>you already believe in God user....you are just having a problem submitting to him....trust takes strength...God loves you...trust in him and you will find peace.

*same thing as

personifying god is a jewish scheme to make you indifferent beyond the core of conception

Yeah modern christians are not zealots but they will not "fix" your life for you, I'm trying to warn you that those who claim to make you stop to drink or whatever are sects.

>It's pretty much just sitting still, eyes closed and trying to relax and calm your thoughts as much as possible

Fucking hell, welcome to the future

Constant stimuli through phones and TVs and ads makes shutting your senses off next to impossible

I disagree with many fundamental parts of the foundations as too assumptive, so I can't rationalize it. My religion is entirely irrational and I accept it as much as my decision to enjoy some things more than others is irrational.

I really don't mean to be snarky, Gaston, but that doesn't make much sense

Research the Chinese Room Thought Experiment and the Mary's Room Thought Experiment

Consciousness is logically not reducible to physicality

OP dont trust what these people are saying
Half of these posters are Satan trying to push you away from Gods light
If you really want to believe start with the bible
Just type "free bible" and youll find a church who will send a missionary to bring it to you and you can ask them questions about god and jesus and shit
Pay no mind to the doubters of this thread
P.S. jesus is not god

God has nothing to do with anything. You're an alcoholic and need to take control of your own life. What really matters to you? Is it really a bullshit space ghost or something more subtle that only you can define?

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/prayers-and-devotions/rosaries/how-to-pray-the-rosary.cfm

It takes time to get it down properly but there are resources like this link to help you through it.
There's a nice phone app called Laudate with an interactive rosary as well that can help you out.

Posture doesn't matter so much, but imo it helps if you kneel. You might feel silly but it doesn't matter. I felt silly at first because I grew up not believing as well. You quickly get over it.

The essence of prayer is lifting up the heart to God. I know that seems impossible because you don't believe in God, but the cry of a man in darkness or the shout of an unbeliever is still heard by God, even if he thinks nobody hears him. You can start with the Our Father.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy Name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

It's probably best to start with an already written prayer, because it'll keep your mind from wandering and wondering what to say. The Our Father is the foremost among all Christian prayers; it's the one Christ Himself taught us to say (see: the Sermon on the Mount, which is a good place to start reading, bartleby.com/108/40/5.html)

I know what it will feel like when you first try to pray. It'll feel like trying to jump off a cliff when some sudden force grips you and keeps you from jumping. Ignore it. It doesn't really matter how you feel, God will hear you even if you think what you are doing is ridiculous and futile. Just say the Our Father slowly. I'm certain that if you say it only once a day, you will see the spiritual effects.

Sure, I know a lot of people use religion to prey upon others

But I'd like to maybe find a nice, quiet church where people are nice and might want to help me stop my problem and maybe even be a better person

Meditating in 60ies USA is the origin of hippies, marijuana and liberalism, that has its origins in India, where Beatles went to get high and the popularized marijuana in USA, also liberalism. The buddhist/Hindu liberalism that's behind every meditating person is basically in core thinking: "i don't engage other people, they will fix themselves". Let me tell you, nothing fixes itself. You can wait for problems to disappear, but bad people will continue to be bad, unless you punish them. The only thing a Buddhist or Hindu will ever punish is somebody from different religion, but that's true for all religions. Welcome to India, cesspool of shit, nobody fixes shit, they just meditating and getting high with bhang.

Start by realizing that atheism ignores the scientific method via having no data to support the conclusion of there being no God or gods. The lack of data does not signify that the disputed claim does not exist, by that logic microscopic organism didn't exist before microscopes came into existence.

Secondly, realize that atheism's main points rely on fallacies, such as that of strawmans, exclusions, etc. For instance, when anyone referrences a "sky daddy," or mocks theism via the introduction of a hypothetical physical being that has little to no probability of existing by utilizing historical data, along with the current posession of information (such as the FSM, Santa Claus, Unicorns, etc.).

I would also avoid gathering opinions on behalf of individuals that already equate organized religion to theism, since they fail to understand the overall gist of God (polytheism is heavily reliable on physical idols, so I am referring to monotheism only).

Once you've reached the stage in which you are agnostic to whether or not God exist, realize that believing in God is your personal decision, and people who claim that you are inferior (in terms of your intellect) to them, will have no negative effects from you converting to theism, as this is your own belief and will not affect the lives of those who are anti-theistic or secular. Individuals that mock your beliefs are just proving how much knowledge they lack on theism, so you can be confortable knowing that not every atheist automatically is more knowledgable than you when it comes to such topics, and you can simply ignore them. If you want to stay open to criticisms, I'd suggest you search up arguements on behalf of theologians, biblical scholars, etc. whom are atheist, instead of listening to biased notions of theism and organized religion from strangers. You'd be surprised to how narrowed down arguements get when debating with an atheist who has knowledge on the overall gist of theism, and a specific religion.

What does the rosary do? I'm only familiar with rosaries insofar as Italian Catholic east coast gangster movies

A good was to start is to sit for around 15 minutes eyes closed and watch your breath without forcing it. There are lots of differents ways to do it tho as the other user said
One of the keys elements is to do it regularly, every day if possible

We could only have a world without suffering if either there was no free will or if people only chose to do good

If we had no free will then we would not exist as anything but passive bservers of our predertermined actions

Life is a filter that separates those that abuse their free will from those who use it well

There's a difference between being drugged out and being calm. Meditation can help you with praising God just as much as anything else. Taking a step back and refocusing can be a good thing. Stressful notions that are taking precedence can be properly prioritized.

>where people are nice and might want to help me stop my problem and maybe even be a better person

So why don't you simply talk to your family or join some support group like the Alcoholics Anonymous?

>Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy Name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

So you recite that, and then what? If I'm asking God to help me with my addiction, do I plead? Do I weep? Do I keep everything inside, or do I beg?

(I know this sounds like an atheist strawman but I promise it isn't, I'm legitimately looking for information here)

We've all done stupid shit, nothing in life makes sense if you analyze it deeply enough, if you ask me, questioning your existence and trying to communicate to an 'outside world' make more sense than most of the things we do.

this guy said it the best. don't worry about doing the 'right' thing or looking retarded. Deep inside you have a moral compass, goals and ambitions, find those and follow those. In your mind you have an idea what a god would be like and what it would take to live up to his standards. Be a good person, to yourself and to others.

My family is fractured and AA has always seemed kinda creepy to me

People who meditate are people who are ok with everybody, from gays to muslims to everything, they will even make excuses for people who harm them. This nu age Buddhism/Hinduism is blooming in Germany, mixed with Christianity, you get this nu age refugee helping people who wear welcome sings when rapists rape.

>this guy said it the best.

I need to stop drinking first

I sunk deep into the bottle and I'm still there, and that's a deep hole to climb out of

Yeah or maybe some people just don't care about that question at all

Pffft, haha.
It's simply a meditative prayer. Like all prayers, the purpose is greater union with God. Through the rosary in particular we have a means towards devotional growth through Mary towards God by meditating on the life of Jesus, which gives reverence to Mary and worship to God.

That's retarded. Those that cause harm should be punished, and rightly so. Meditation has nothing to do with it. It just happens that a lot of these nu-age SJW assholes are overboard and think the world has the potential to be a utopia. There is no such thing. The human condition means everyone has the potential for evil, and that's just something we have to work around and prevent.

you're simply discovering that life is work and basically nothing else

work
work
work
work

maybe you get a wife and have some kids, but do you know what kids are?

work

you are too smart for religion so you will never be truly religious

Help me understand it

I legitimately want to know

>If I'm asking God to help me with my addiction, do I plead? Do I weep? Do I keep everything inside, or do I beg?

Prayer doesn't quite work like that, at least if I'm understanding you correctly. You don't have to "put on a show", and convince God to help you. God already understands that you need help, all he's waiting for is a sign of humility from you. You can weep but it's not essential to weep. Don't feel like your prayer is worthless if you don't weep or have any emotional effects. Prayer is not something in the emotions, it's primarily in the WILL; one person who has a stronger will to be forgiven for his sins will not weep, whereas another who has a less desire to be forgiven weeps; some people are naturally emotional than others, and circumstances often affect how our emotions react.
All that's required really is a little honesty and humility. Literally all that is required is a, "God help me; if you're there please help me, I'm willing to believe." There is no need for anything theatrical. Don't be discouraged if you don't feel anything after prayer. A lot of the time it occurs that you pray, and it's only the following morning that you realise something is different.

Would it suit you better if you called it "contemplation" or "deep thought", you ignorant Slavic fuck? Under any other name, it's sitting quietly and trying to consider your situation, and does not necessarily have anything to do with gray-bearded hippie pit-stains supping at the cock of Eastern philosophy.

The idea of a Slovenian actually thinking for once might be a bit too far-fetched, though, so feel free to go back to your potato water.

You have to be in mindset of Buddha to sign for organizations that help refugees. Who do you think spreads this if not Indians who are btw the biggest migrant population in Canada and UK, those are you modern liberal origins. They are behind those organizations, because it helps them to get into your country.

detected the Indian