Doctor Strange vs The Avengers

Which Avengers would he be able to beat up? Remember, The Cloak of Levitation is his best friend in the whole wide world.

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So just himself and the cloak? No Time Stone?

If no stone, then maybe Hawkeye, Falcon and Black Widow are the ones he could beat. But only one on one. If it's all the Avengers, or even just those three, he'd get his ass handed to him.

depends how much research and practice he does between the end of the film and their fight. The more he learns the stronger he gets, in the comics he can rival hulk.

Nobody, Vision is OP and he wasn't able to defeat anybody in CW

Oh yeah. MCU power levels are out of whack so Strange will lose to Black Widow.

They nerved him fucking hard in the movie.
All he could do is his retarded magic whip and time haxes due to the eye.

It's almost like it's an origin movie where he's just a novice of the mystical arts. Crazy.

Its hard to say at this point considering he wasnt Sorcerer Supreme by the end. However the after credits scene does imply he may have achieved that level when talking to Thor. Like for instance can he now fold matter outside the mirror dimension, fire energy bolts, or conjure new weapons?

With the time gem he should be able to beat all of them

Yeah and a few months later he's already on Thor level. Great writing.

>Thor level
When was he at Thor level? The whole crux of the movie is that he had to outsmart the cosmic horror because he couldn't possibly beat him with the magic he knew at the time.

The movies takes place over several years

Pre-retcon he beats them all
Post retcon he beats all besides iron man, vision, thor and hulk. Maybe scarlet witch too.

Besides maybe thor, vision and iron man. He has a hard time with pure science threats and sorceries stronger than him.

It is worth it to keep in mind though that Vision was holding back the whole time. They severely nerfed Scarlet Witch as well though

> implying him and Tony would ever fight

>They severely nerfed Scarlet Witch as well though

I don't see how. She was pulling off more impressive feats of power in CW than she did in AoU.

>Besides maybe thor, vision and iron man.

Considering he used the Time Stone to get the better of an all-mighty being, I think he'd be able to beat Thor, Vison and Tony with the Time Stone.

Could he use the portals to sever limbs? Like he makes a portal to Africa, kicks a person halfway into portal, then closes it?

Well the catch is that he introduced time where there was none. In our plane he would have to focus the time manipulation more effectively. Against threats as fast as iron man and vision or someone as strong and skilled in mysticism as thor he would be outmatched. Then again iron man has gotten the most nerfed out of any marvel cinematic hero so maybe he would lose in that context.

Movie Strange isn't weak at all.he's shown to be cunning and agile and who the hell knows how much stronger/more skilled he emerged from the Dark Dimension? He fought Dormammu unknown number of times, got killed, true, but always tried to defend himself and D. having to device new ways may mean that Strange overcome the earlier ones. That means he got a DBZ HTC-style training and that's some shit.

>implying Dormammu wouldn't kill movie Thor just as easily
Strange isn't shown as being there yet, but certainly has the potential.

Couldn't he just dump any of them in the Mirror Dimension? Vision with his phase powers, and a goddamn Infinity Stone, may be able to cheat. Could Wanda witch her way out? Could Thor's hammer break free of a spell?

While Thor is aware of sorcery and certainly wasn't shocked at the idea of wizards on Earth, I don't think I'd count him as skilled in mysticism.

I guess I am thinking of pre secret wars thor. He was quite a powerful sorcerer. Not supreme or even Loki levels but he also had resistances.

That would be amazing.

Using a fairly basic spell in such a devastating way would be Strange to a T.

The portals seemed to open and close a bit slowly, so it doesn't seem like the most reliable way of doing damage. If someone got kicked halfway into the portal, they'd immediately try to get completely into either side of it. I guess if they're slow enough they'd probably dismembered though.

If he's fighting a team, portals would be a great tool for reducing the amount of people he has to fight at any time. Trying to fight Hulk while Iron Man is flying around? Send Tony to the other side of the planet and worry about him later.

Wanda could likely magic her way out, but she would have to get used to it as she hasn't seen magic like that before.

Exactly. You would never see him do that to humans in a movie but maybe robots? This makes sense, maybe he could increase the speed of it. In any event when I watched the film I thought that was a hugely versatile power.

Yeah, thinking about it, one on one, he could basically just strand anyone anywhere.

Portals are almost always op. Imagine if he just opened a portal to the bottom of the ocean and blasted high pressure water torrents at people or even kicking them down there.

>Couldn't he just dump any of them in the Mirror Dimension?

Not before any of them could get a hand on, or throw something at him.

> Vision with his phase powers, and a goddamn Infinity Stone, may be able to cheat.

Being able to control his molecular density =/= passing though different plains of existence.

>Could Wanda witch her way out?

No.

>Could Thor's hammer break free of a spell?

No.

>Wanda could likely magic her way out

Except Wanda doesn't have the kind of abilities Strange has. She's just Telepathic and telekinetic.

If we are going by comics she has chaos based magic, which is actually the Pokemon style weakness of order based magic strange uses. Within the realm of the MCU you have a point though.

I mean, I'd love to see some straight-up energy blasts and whatever-mancy in future movies, but even the whips could be upgraded with a little tinkering and forethought.

And yeah, anyone who's watched Wakfu can tell you how quickly teleporting and time fuckery can become hax as all hell.

So Vision can use the stone bur Strange cant?

Wanda´s power is not magic in the MCU and it wont be until proven otherwise.

>Within the realm of the MCU you have a point though.

That's what I'm going by. Bringing in her comic powers is this case is kinda pointless. We're just going by MCU iterations. MCU Wanda is Telekinetic/pathic, and Strange (and the other guys) somehow can mildly controll time/space and fuck with quantum physics.

>wakfu
My African American

Dr. Strange could probably whip everyone except Vision and Thor. Vision because of the mind Stone and Thor because of being a superpowerful magical alien.

>So Vision can use the stone bur Strange cant?

The Mind Stone? Possibly. Though he's likely only scratched the surface because he's afraid of it's power. Strange probably could as well though some apparatus because handling a stone on it's own is probably lethal for humans. But it'd probably work different than the Time Stone, though.

If he could somehow create 'permanent' portals, even ones that had to be activated remotely via sigils, he would be Hulk-level.

Imagine if he actually cooperated with Tony. They could have portals opening to giant lasers, fire geysers and all sorts of Aperture Science-level bullshit.

The fact that the vision HAS the mindstone doesn't mean he can fully exploit it.

It's like claiming that the champion was thoroughly unbeatable because he had the power stone.
Remember what happened to him?
Got his shit slapped in a fistfight with Thanos.

>though some apparatus

*through some apparatus

>Not before any of them could get a hand on, or throw something at him.
Doesn't that depend on them seeing him coming? How do you know he spot them from that dimension and then pop back to reality as he drops them into the mirror dimension behind him. One of the fun things about it is that it is practical invisibility traveling in the Mirror Dimension.

>Being able to control his molecular density =/= passing though different plains of existence.

We don't know what his upper abilities are, but we DO know they're bolstered by the Mind Stone. And for all you know his phase shifting is via stepping between dimensions.

We don't know what the extend of Wanda's abilities are either, and they sure as hell don't understand how they work, in part because she gained them from an Infinity Stone. Thor's hammer is the same. Is it magic? God tech? When Strange's abilities are the "source code of the universe" how do you know they aren't running on the same thing? How do you know Asgardian tech isn't running on the same principals to do the seeming impossible?

You're acting like the authority on matters we really don't know anything about. Wait for Thor The Dark World and hope Strange runs into Loki so they can compare notes.

>Tony has a giant web shooter in a lab
>hexagram right in front of it
He'd be unstoppable.

>Doesn't that depend on them seeing him coming?

I suppose it would. You/OP didn't specify, so I'm going by if they were facing eachother from the start. But I suppose he could 'sucker punch' them from the mirror dimension if his intent was to do so before even starting the fight proper.

>We don't know what his upper abilities are

And neither does he, because he refuses to explore them.

>. And for all you know his phase shifting is via stepping between dimensions.

Except it isn't. He's manipulating his body's molecular density. We know this because Wanda beat him at the compound him by forcing him increase his body's density. It's why he fell through the floor.

>Thor's hammer is the same. Is it magic? God tech?

It's tech. Mjolnir is a straight up highly advanced piece of technological weaponry.

Strange+tony= god level powers. You get the best of magic and science.

>When Strange's abilities are the "source code of the universe" how do you know they aren't running on the same thing? How do you know Asgardian tech isn't running on the same principals to do the seeming impossible?

I'm not saying they don't. Asgard it a scientifically and technologically advanced society. I don't doubt that Asgard's deeper scientific understanding of the universe is the same shit as what Strange/Kamar-Taj's.

>So Vision can use the stone bur Strange cant?
The Stone embedded in Vision's own forehead? He says himself that he doesn't quite control it, but he hopes one day he can. It's also possible during Civil War that Wanda tapped into it when she dropped his ass down into the ground. The Stone in his forehead started glowing with her powers. Since her powers and it are linked maybe she can control it, or maybe she could otherwise isolate Vision from using it at that point. It's possible anyway.

As for using the Stone, I don't know. If Wanda did could he similarly do so without touching it? It IS the Mind Stone, I suppose an effective psychic control is possible with a powerful enough mind. When you think about it all the uses of the Stones has required people accessing it via some form of technology or device. Red Skull touched the Tesseract when it went off and damn if we know what happened to him. SHIELD and Loki used it in a machine to open portals. Thor used it in some kind of presumably Asgardian device to take Loki back to Asgard. The Aether was killing Jane, albeit slowly. Ronan bonded his to his hammer and the Guardians barely were able to use it by joining forces via the Magic of Friendship and probably the fact that Star Lords dad is a planet with a penis. The Eye of Agamotto counts as a device, and one of the earliest hints at the nature of the Eye was Mordo talking about how some spells are too powerful and must be contained in an object. I'm sure some of their spells are, but that is also how one would describe how Infinity Stones have been used.

Each of the Stones has a variable deleterious effect when used by its own, but all seem to ultimately be fatal or otherwise fuck up or fuck over people trying to use them without some kind of device. Right now Vision is rocking with one on his forehead. Is he protected because he's synthetic? Does he count, for all intents and purposes, as a device to utilize it? Probably.

No way. The Cloak will kick Widow's ass and then wrap itself real tight around her ass and tits because its horny.

That is pretty much how Thor described it in his first movie. His realm is one where magic are one in the same. Jane would consider what Strange does via access the multiverse some form of higher order quantum technobabble. But who the fuck cares about Jane?

I would argue that being such an ancient and advanced civilization the "source code of the universe" wouldn't seem magic to them but part of reality. They would presumably understand magic as we try to use physics to describe the universe as we see it. So really Odin wouldn't see it or them as anything necessarily special in the universal/multiversal scheme of things. They wouldn't be gods, just advanced beings with extremely advanced understanding of the nature of the reality/realities. This would explain how things like the Soul Forge or Rainbow Bridges work, and also how Odin can simply shove Thor all the way to Earth with his own power.

Remember how Thor described Odin sending him to Earth? Odin had to conjure a lot of Dark Energy? And in Doctor Strange we find out Dormammu's disciples can use his dark powers to alter reality outside the Mirror Dimension? It might not be a mere coincidence to them. It would also be ironic given comics Strange used to call on Dormammu for power before he realized what exactly he was tapping into.

Yeah, but Thor, Vision, and Iron Man are all slaves to time, just like everybody else. Sure, Vision has the mind stone, but he only knows how to shoot laser beams from it. He hasn't mastered its true purpose, like strange did with the eye.

Tumblr would likely dump the Science Bros ship in favor of Facial Hair Bros.

>His realm is one where magic are one in the same

His description implied that science and magic were just two words for the same thing. It's all just science. Well, Asgard and Strange just use Super... or Ultra-Science.

> Jane would consider what Strange does via access the multiverse some form of higher order quantum technobabble. But who the fuck cares about Jane?

In that paticular case, I do. Because that's how I see it.

>sitting down for tea/beer and a chat is considered the same as fisticuffs with an Asgardian

>It's also possible during Civil War that Wanda tapped into it when she dropped his ass down into the ground. The Stone in his forehead started glowing with her powers. Since her powers and it are linked maybe she can control it, or maybe she could otherwise isolate Vision from using it at that point.

Her powers coming from the stone might've factored, but I'm more than certian that she controlled the stone because of her telepathy. The Mind Stone has a mind of it's own. As a telepath, she can control minds. So she just rock, paper, scissored it.

Do you really think Strange mastered it? Mordo sure as fuck doesn't. The Infinity Stone didn't let him manipulate time, it let him break it. Perhaps fortunately for him he was just breaking it in a shitty dimension nobody cares about but Dormammu and his emo eyeshadow freaks without local time of its own to really fuck up.

The fact that it is an Infinity Stone and not just a mere enchanted artifact (yes, I just said that about the Eye. Sorry, Agamotto) suggests he could really fuck shit up if he isn't careful. The fact that he returned the Eye suggests he's well aware that he shouldn't be playing around with it, either. He is hardly its master. Perhaps there is a "yet" there. Wing thought so.

>Send Tony to the other side of the planet
Send him into geostational orbit for a few secs and watch his PTSD render him powerless

The Asgardian magic users we've seen, namely Frigga and Loki, didn't need to write spells in the air, but then they aren't mere humans so maybe they don't need to.

It does make me wonder a bit about what Bifrost writes where it drops someone. "Heimdall Wuz Here"?

Purely going by Mjolnir behaviour exhibited in the comics, Thor might, under the right circumstances, be able to throw his hammer hard enough to punch through dimensional barriers, but if the hit takes out Strange, they're stuck.

I question how much we needed an origin for him. At least in the traditional sense.

I sort of feel like he's the type of character we can jump right in with. Maybe piece the origin together a little at a time as the plot goes on as he remembers things or people investigate him. Hell give him a side kick and just info dump it if you really have to. It's not like his origin is all that complex.

>Was an asshole surgeon
>got fucked
>went to Asia and now Im gandalf

. .

Why employ two people when one is more than capable to do their job?

That's exactly what happens in the comics. His origin isn't explained until issue #4 or so.

>The Asgardian magic users we've seen, namely Frigga and Loki, didn't need to write spells in the air

I think that's just a slightly lesser form. From the way it looks, they're seemingly bending light and throwing their voices. Basically just very lifelike looking hologram projections.

>It does make me wonder a bit about what Bifrost writes where it drops someone.

I like to think it's a kind of fingerprint address. Like that's the literal imprint of the Bifrost's set course. Think like the chevrons on a Stargate, but it leaves a mark on the destination.

Frigga was actually projecting her consciousness into a high security Asgardian prison cell. Loki once projected his consciousness across space to talk with The Other. But the Mind Stone no doubt helped.

Astral projecting strange style?

Or he opens a portal in space, the persons near it are sucked in space because of the absence of pression there.

>But the Mind Stone no doubt helped.

I think that was more the Scepter (no doubt with the stone powering it) acting as a long range transmitter.

>Frigga was actually projecting her consciousness into a high security Asgardian prison cell.

Frigga's probably got high level clearance for that. Also, it was the dungeons. They were both still technically in the same building.

>Astral projecting strange style?

Nah. Like said. They were just supped up holograms.

Good one. So it has been explained that cyclops' power comes from the fact that his eyes are portals into a dimension of pure energy. So imagine if he opens a portal there and has a huge cyclops beam at will.

I'm pretty sure Frigga did NOT have clearance. Odin was pretty specific about him never seeing Frigga again. She was using her magic to get around that.

You could still argue that she is well liked enough someone in god jail was willing to give her access, but, frankly, I think we were supposed to take from that the fact she didn't need it. Just as not everyone on Earth can use magic not everyone on Asgard can, not the way she and Loki do.

Okay, so she hacked the systems.

It would help if we saw them always relying on technology to do that. We don't. Projecting a "hologram" with your mind, actually manifesting a consciousness and artificially bending light around it doesn't strike you as the least bit magical? Doesn't seem like something you could do with "the source code of the universe"?

Hell, in the first Thor we saw Odin strip away Thor's abilities with his words and just tearing at Thor's clothing. He speaks to the hammer and runic script appears "writing" his spell of worthiness into the hammer. Does Mjolnir have tiny uru microchips in it? Even if it did wouldn't be pushing things to the point of no practical difference between their magic and technology and they might be different ways to access the same reality source code?

Yep. With magic.

Master is probably to strong of a word, but he was at least able to use it for what it was made for-controlling time. Vision hasn't controlled any minds with the mind stone yet.

ok

>Doesn't seem like something you could do with "the source code of the universe"?

Sure. I just identify that as a deeper scientific understanding of the universe. Not supernatural blah-blahbabble.

>Hell, in the first Thor we saw Odin strip away Thor's abilities with his words and just tearing at Thor's clothing.
>He speaks to the hammer and runic script appears "writing" his spell of worthiness into the hammer.

Vocal commands just like what people do with their phones and ipads, but just with more advanced tech.

>Does Mjolnir have tiny uru microchips in it?
I'd bet it does.

Hell, if it was technological Loki would have had his striped from him when thrown in jail.

youtube.com/watch?v=8K0cZ-5Mqec

I'm kind of curious what Doctor Strange and the rest of the mystics were doing every other time Earth was in danger. They may be protecting the very fabric of reality but it's kind of a moot point when Ultron is about to wipe out all life on the planet. Or did the Ancient One's visions of the future mean she knew he was doomed to fail without them intervening? Or did they intervene in ways we weren't aware?

Hell, it's curious that Hydra knows about Stephen Strange. Does this mean he's meddled in the past or just that they're afraid he might? When he gets name dropped with Bruce Banner I assume this is because they know he's magic and not a rogue doctor with gimpy hands.

youtube.com/watch?v=qGpz8Q4Jq6A

Poor Sitwell. He's Hailing Hydra in Hel right now.

>
Hell, it's curious that Hydra knows about Stephen Strange. Does this mean he's meddled in the past or just that they're afraid he might? When he gets name dropped with Bruce Banner I assume this is because they know he's magic and not a rogue doctor with gimpy hands.

He's an enormously talented person capable of acquiring new skills at an insane pace. Going from world class surgeon to average sorcerer in the span of just a year is mind boggling if you think about it and, natural talent for the mystic arts aside, he's always had it in him.

I think it was more the implication that Hydra being aware of him as a mystic, that there were mystics at all, is incredibly interesting.

Did any member of Kamar-Taj ever start to Hail Hydra? Did Mordo?

It looks like Strange is the most powerful guy in both MCU and DCEU. It's just pathetic how DCEU lose even in terms of power-levels while DC is winning literally everywhere.

He's no match for Widow massive tits

Natasha beats his cock.

Unless the Tme Gem can be used in a sexual way to give him the edge?

You mean like shorten his refractory period or eliminate it entirely

I meant more like restore her hymen

not even Stan Lee could do that user

They didn't know he was a mystic at the time. He was only on their list for his natural talents. In the blink of an eye, this guy went from being a brilliant surgeon to being capable of standing shoulder to shoulder with the avengers, with access to knowledge that may only rival Thor's(and the other sorcerers of earth). The worry may have been that if he'd decided to become nova-hot hacker, an international assassin, learn ninjutsu in some temple at the ass-end of nowhere or become some kind of a detective, he'd be a torn in their side.

If you're going to namedrop a dude as a huge threat AFTER you mention Bruce Banner, I'd assume it wasn't because he's a super duper learning guy with a huge ego and a "fuck helping anyone who won't increase my profile" attitude. I mean come on, user. That's practically a poster boy for Hydra prior to the movie teaching him humility.

If you'd said that the Insight Algorithm had determined his jokes alone made him worthy of being Helicarriered you'd have at least had a leg to stand on.

>prior to the movie teaching him humility.
Well, at least something approaching it. Not quite as bad as Thor learning humility and regaining worthiness at barely a weekend on Earth.

the last 'super duper learning guy with a huge ego and a "fuck helping anyone who won't increase my profile" attitude' built a wearable flying tank and helped to kick off the modern age of superheroes. I'd have shot the surgeon just to be on the safe side.

Unless they were worried Doctor Strange was going to build himself a Frankensuit in a cave with a box of assorted medical waste then no, not really.

Besides, you're seriously overplaying his 'super learning". He has a photographic memory that allows him to recall magic rituals and duplicate the spells from memory, HOWEVER they flat out state that it takes more than a good memory. He was born for the mystic arts.

Hell, good recall isn't even something unique to Strange. Steve demonstrated his own when he could recall the locations of multiple Hydra bases on a map he only saw for a few seconds and this was precise recall given we saw the montage of destroyed Hydra installations.

Meanwhile Tony didn't copy the Iron Man suit, he created it. His genius is his super power. If Stephen saw a detailed blue print and has as much an inclination into wacko physics as he does for the mystic arts then maybe, MAYBE, he could create his own Iron Strange suit with working Arc Reactor.

I'm not saying that it's a fair comparison, I'm saying that they'd have shot him just to be on the safe side. No need to risk seeing what this one might do when they know what Banner and Stark got up to.

>He has a photographic memory that allows him to recall magic rituals and duplicate the spells from memory, HOWEVER they flat out state that it takes more than a good memory. He was born for the mystic arts
I'm almost certain magic is much more than just memorizing a few lines and simply regurgitating them. His training montage even highlights this. He devoured how many books on some pretty high concept shit that he was ridiculing less than a year prior. More than just recalling it, he's wrapped his head around the material enough to be an average enough sorcerer in months(I seriously thought it had been years). He wasn't born to be a surgeon and look how far he got on ego alone. Not saying he could just up and learn anything, just what he really, really put his mind to. Hydra would be foolish to let him live knowing that.

He was a threat to their intentions by raw talent alone.

Look at his ego, do you think he'd bow down to Hydra once they start blasting everyone? Hell no. After half his friends get fried, he'd probably go John Conner and be a medical aid to the resistance.

The name drops to me at least was less about supers only and more that will wipe out the "invulnerable" down to those who would dare give people an option to not be cattle.

They could have just as easily switched out names for the President of the US and Russia, but nobody would give a fuck or care then.

Is Strange confirmed for Infinity War (either part)?

I mean it seems obvious he'll be involved somehow, I'm just curious if they officially announced it or not.

Wong and Mordo flat out told Strange, and the audience, it was more than memory and a natural talent for the mystic arts. They weren't trying to be subtle here.

Besides, the timeline for the movie is a bit interesting. We know, thanks to the mid-credits scene, that we're caught up with Ragnarok. Enough time to piss off Hydra? Sadly they've stopped doing shorts so we'll never get one that shows us Stephen secretly fucking around with key events throughout the MCU.

This is Hydra. If they're going to target dangerous people with egos they'd sadly all be on their own list and the first to die.

Again this is about being namedropped after The Hulk. It doesn't make sense to stop on just some random doctor in New York. There's a shit ton of names on the Insight target list, too many for anyone to name them all by memory, and yet some random surgeon winds up so well known Sitwell remembers him by sheer coincidence? It only makes sense if it was suspiciously specific like, "That pizza guy who fucked my sister!"

Which is actually a lovely idea if we think maybe it was personal. So what was it, Sitwell? What medical treatment did Doctor Strange deny you that made you hate him so much? That radical prehensile penile enhancement surgery so you could become a hero yourself named The Incredible Bulk? Shit, no wonder he joined Hydra.

Feige and Cabbagepatch have both confirmed it. I think Feige implied he's gonna have a pretty big role because he holds an Infinity Stone and has a personal connection to it now.

>Except Wanda doesn't have the kind of abilities Strange has. She's just Telepathic and telekinetic.
Yeah, but why? All that means is she has access to the minds of others, and can move things with her mind. Her magic isn't matching in color with the Mind Stone that unlocked her power, it's some kind of red material and the eyes of her victims go red as well, so does her power really flow from it, or did it open her mind to something else? Possibly something else she already had a weak connection to before (miraculously non-exploding missile potentially being a clue). I wouldn' rule out the idea that there's some extra-dimensional shenanigans going on.

Because he would have fucking killed them.

Pretty sure Vision doesn't have to go full blast all the time. What fucked up Rhodey was that the shot from Vision, meant to take out Sam's thrusters, hit the arc reactor in the War Machine armor. After that it was the landing that fucked him up.