1. Orthodox reject inheritability of sin. Death and suffering are human nature, we only don't suffer them when partaking in perfect synergism with God's energies, which we haven't since the fall.
2. The Orthodox reject the "satisfaction theory of atonement". The Orthodox subscribe to "Christus Victor" (the idea of atonement illustrated in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe).
3. Hell in Orthodoxy is not separation from God. Hell, like heaven, is experiencing the full radiance of God's light and presence, but with a negative relationship so that it is like fire.
4. The Orthodox reject the idea that our understanding of dogma develops. The idea is to keep the exact same understanding the Apostles have, invented terminology is not meant to develop the understanding, but to PROTECT it from being "developed".
5. Catholics define usury as excessive interest, Orthodox define usury as any interest.
6. The Orthodox reject the Catholic idea of supererogation.
7. The Orthodox reject Purgatory. The Orthodox do, however, distinguish Sheol (called "Hades" in Greek) from Gehenna.
8. Orthodoxy places enormous emphasis on fasting, in fact more than half the days of the year involve some sort of fast. And there are even some days which are total fasts, no intake, period. Two consistent fast days (almost every Wednesday and Friday, no meat, dairy, eggs, fish, oils or wine) trace back at least to the Didache.
9. Orthodox draw most of their priests from the married laity, but most of their bishops from monks.
That's because I was trying to list differences many people are unaware of. Most people are aware of the Pope thing
Dominic Howard
>[fasting] makes your heart much more tender to contrition >it is much more difficult to feel deep contrition >Muh Feels
I'm starting to suspect that religious conversion to any religion is one big game of psychology. I took up the challenge of praying to God and praying the rosary by Christians yet I have been giving the same response when an atheist actually does. It seems they expected me to refuse, as most atheists probably would have. [Fedora Tipping Intensifies] They all said that even if I completed these works, it won't change anything of my understanding of God. Apparently your mind has to already be in a state to accept God, i.e., be psychologically primed for conversion. Does anyone see the Catch-22 here? Prayer won't work for you as an atheist yet you will never know God unless you go down your knees and pray and, in the case of Christianity, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior into your heart. What is an atheist to do to know God?
Grayson Parker
I was born Orthodox and my retarded mother decided to move to North America when I was a child. Are there any Churches in Canada you would recommend for getting involved?
Nicholas Fisher
Similarities: They're both a crock of shit
Carson Bennett
the hats
Adam Rogers
Orthodox Christianity is, ultimately, concerned with being more like God. God doesn't feel passions, since he's not a human (except through the Word's incarnation). Contrition is balm though, in relation to our other passions.
Anyway, what is an atheist to do? Read The Way of a Pilgrim. The Jesus Prayer,, if you say it enough, will help you to know God, regardless of whether or not you have faith yet.
Antiochian has the most converts and do their liturgy entirely in English. You might try them. Any church will do though, but some people are put off by the "ethnic" feel of a mostly Greek or Russian parish.
Jaxon Phillips
Welcome to the faith!
Kayden Wood
>What is an atheist to do to know God? speaking as a former atheist, i will venture that you already do know God but are just in denial about it
have you ever made a moral decision (i.e. done the "right" thing) when nobody else was watching and there was no chance of getting caught? it's a rhetorical question. of course you have. anyway, that voice in your head that told you to do it was God. you probably think of Him as your own "conscience" or something
Juan Smith
And the passions he felt through Christ were the "blameless" passions (sorrow, joy, etc.), not the other sorts (greed, envy.)
Andrew King
>1.
Even if you were isolated your whole life, hormones would take over once you hit puberty and you'd be filled with lust i.e. sin.
>2.
We are saved by God's grace alone via the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
>3.
Yes, God is everywhere even when you are making your bed in hell. Experiencing God's wrath will not be pleasant.
>4.
Mindless chanting is not right. We only learn through the Word and faith, prayer, and of course, grace.
>5.
A bit of interest is fair. See the parable of the talents.
>6.
We should be constantly working for God once we belong to Him through Jesus Christ.
>7.
There will be hell as ruled by satan until final judgment when satan, along with all others, are cast into the lake of fire.
>8.
Fasting is a good thing.
>9.
This makes perfect sense in an organized church; married priests can reach out to the common man that is also married whereas monks further up the chain guiding the church wouldn't have the marriage distraction.
>10.
Nope. Baptism and communion are via faith and grace alone including choice once old enough to decide for themselves. There were no infants receiving communion or being baptized in the Bible. This is heresy.
Juan Hill
I choose not to identify with denominations, but much prefer Orthodoxy to the cathocucks. I knew about most of these, but what's the distinction between Sheol and Gehenna?
Jaxson Morales
Also, fasting always seemed like a meme to me, anyone care to explain why you guys do it? It just seems pointless to me.
Michael Morris
>A bit of interest is fair. See the parable of the talents. the parable of talents does not justify usury - the lesson of that parable is that you have to do the most you can with what God gives you. how could you interpret this parable to justify usury and charging of interest?
Jaxon Torres
>Even if you were isolated your whole life, hormones would take over once you hit puberty and you'd be filled with lust i.e. sin. Nope, lust is mental dwelling. Not having the biological impulse
>We are saved by God's grace alone via the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Not sure how that's relevant to what you're replying to, which is the concept of how Christ's sacrifice saves us.
>Yes, God is everywhere even when you are making your bed in hell. Experiencing God's wrath will not be pleasant. God's energies are only wrath from our perspective, based on our experience. God himself has no emotions. His energies are wrath, love, and so on, depending on our relationship with them. Sort of like how the sea is "angry" to us. These describe how we experience God, not how God experiences God.
>Mindless chanting is not right. We only learn through the Word and faith, prayer, and of course, grace. Chanting is prayer.
>A bit of interest is fair It's forbidden in the Old Testament, and Christ goes further: he says you shouldn't even ask for the principle back. So taking interest now is even worse.
>See the parable of the talents. It's a parable. By your logic, Luke 19:27 is Christ saying it is okay to kill people for not being Christians.
>We should be constantly working for God once we belong to Him through Jesus Christ. Not sure how that is relevant to what I said.
> There were no infants receiving communion or being baptized in the Bible. This is heresy. You do realize that the "new" covenant is just a continuation, a realization of the old covenant? If God did not want infants in his covenant, why did he expressly demand they be in it?
"Faith" is "trust" (as opposed to the more secular conception of it being "belief"). Infants trust God, just not in a complex and rational way.
Sacred Trips wasted on a pointless question. fasting is just like a prayer rope or rosary beads - it's a spiritual tool that only works if you use it correctly
William Hughes
Orthodoxy is not a denomination. A "denomination" means a piece of the Church Christ founded, a "sect" of it. The Orthodox Church is the entirety of the Church Christ founded.
The thing is, God intended the spiritual and physical to be harmonious, but the fall set them at odds. We have to restore them. But to do that, we have to tune out the physical a bit so we can "hear" the spiritual. We've become so caught up in the physical, the carnal without the spiritual, we have to "turn down the music", so to speak, in order grasp the spiritual once again. Fasting is "turning down the music" of the flesh for a while.
Samuel Ross
There are psychological benefits to self-denial. Knowing you're doing it for God strengthens your faith. There are also health benefits to fasting that some people swear by.
Taleb talks about fasting in terms of "hormesis" and the benefits of calorie restriction.
Fasting feels rewarding. It's good to put yourself through trials like that regularly. Occasional fasting is the best middle ground between complete asceticism and haphazard gluttony.
Kayden Johnson
there are coptic orthodox churches but idk where exactly,i know that since my father's friends go to it,there are coptic orthodox churches in the us too and ofc alot of other orthodox churches
Hudson Parker
There are also Ethiopian Orthodox in Canada.
Blake Ortiz
one of my good friends and colleagues is an Egyptian Coptic Christian. he's based af
Wyatt Robinson
but i recommend you search for a canadian one since as i think there will be prayers in coptic language in the copts churches and in ehtipoian in the ethiopian ones so its better search for a canadian one desu
where are you from?
Easton Cook
I'm a convert.
Brody Gomez
egyptian copts are the best,specially those who think not just a christian by name.
from what?
Wyatt Bell
this desu. I want us to be one
David Bennett
Anglican
You'd all have to be individually received into the Orthodox Church for that to happen, unfortunately, since we don't recognize your sacraments
Zachary Richardson
Why is there so much infighting and bickering amidst us? I've had my holy sacrament from the Roman Catholic Church but I still love and respect our Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Coptic, Calvinist, Protestant brothers.
The fight between us has ended. However, the defense against the invaders that batter at our door is in full effect. God is with us gentlemen, God is with Christendom.
DEUS VULT
Owen Nelson
Orthodox Christianity is based
Leo Jenkins
How do people of different faiths have any meaningful discussion on religious truths?
It seems like unless you already accept Jesus and the Bible there isnt much room for discussion
Jace Cooper
Shills and cheap thrills You speak truth though
Jonathan Collins
There's bickering because you split from us over bickering. C'mon, bro, it's pretty obvious.
There really isn't a lot of bickering though, except in the internet. It's not like irl Orthodox and Catholics are picking fights with each other
It's like a dialogue with a secular philosophy, but there's obviously not any chance the two faiths will be "reconciled" if that's what you mean, no
Jose Allen
Why arent you an Orthodox Christian user?
Austin Reyes
>It's like a dialogue with a secular philosophy, but there's obviously not any chance the two faiths will be "reconciled" if that's what you mean, no
I wasnt talking about reconciliation but simple determining what is true and what is not.
Jaxson Perry
what is the image of christianity in canada? i'm curious about that desu
Nathan Bennett
Is it true that Copts are hostile to non egyptian converts?
Evan Morris
I'm Lebanese.
My mom is Maronite Catholic, and my dad is Orthodox, but I don't know which church I like better.
Hudson Davis
What methodology would you propose?
I doubt it. I'm Eastern Orthodox, not Oriental Orthodox, though.
Aaron Anderson
i don't think so, we actually become very happy when someone converts,at least that's here in Egypt don't know about copts in other countries
Jaxon Reyes
Well now you have some differences to consider.
Carter Stewart
>What methodology would you propose? That's what Im asking you because I don't think there can really by much of one unless you do something like abandon fidism but even that seems like it would require rejecting religion.
I was asking because we had a knowledgeable copt on /his/ discussing this and how whilst they want people to find Christ they dont want to have their culture diluted by foreigners.
Jason Gutierrez
"Faith" in Orthodoxy means "trust". Finding belief in God is more of spiritual, mystical thing. Trusting in God is the more difficult struggle.
Jose Nelson
Yeah but what do you base that trust on? Mysticism still uses reason like Scholasticism does even if it is in a more constrained way
William Nguyen
this is probably because we copts or egyptians in general see the west is morally degenerate and don't want western culture ruin/corrupts ours,maybe he was thinking like this,but someone who will find Christ will never be morally degenerate.
Christopher Phillips
He seemed to be more worried about it meaning litergy in a foreign langauge and less emphasis on cultural traditions and events
Jason Edwards
we copts value liturgy a lot and value it being in coptic language so the more foreigners come in the need for it to be in english only will rise which might not be liked by the copts.the,coptic language sounds deep a lot more than arabic or english if you know what is being sayed
Alexander Rodriguez
Being hungry makes me want to kill something and eat it.
Hunter Torres
Another interesting question (and one which had precdent in history) say you, a muslim, a Hindu, a jew, a deist, taoist, pagan and an atheist were to come across a person/group of people with zero knowledge of religious knowledge. How would that person figure out which is true?
Kevin Cruz
Mysticism is about finding God through meditation, prayer and fasting, as well as religious aesthetics
The Holy Spirit guides them to Christ. We can offer various arguments, sure, but at the end of the day, it's the Holy Spirit which does it.
Lucas Johnson
>Mysticism is about finding God through meditation, prayer and fasting, as well as religious aesthetics Also through the Mysteries (translated to Latin as "Sacraments")
Brody Edwards
>Mysticism is about finding God through meditation, prayer and fasting, as well as religious aesthetics
Thats how it manifests but in practice it means placing emphasis on empirical experience rather than rational/abstract experience
>The Holy Spirit guides them to Christ. We can offer various arguments, sure, but at the end of the day, it's the Holy Spirit which does it.
I was asking what a person in that position -who has no idea or clue of what the HS is - should do to figure which figure is correct. Your answer is more an explanation to other Christians on how they could come into the faith
Jace Harris
No, it's the same thing. The person can have an explanation of each faith. If they come to Christ, it is through the Holy Spirit.
Austin Baker
>No, it's the same thing. How so?
additionally were they to come to another faith what mechanism would that be?
Camden Jackson
There is no specific mechanism, there could be any number of factors.
Jeremiah Sullivan
Can you make it clear how those two questions were the same? Would it clarify the issue if I said I was asking that question from ignorant parties position and not the missionaries one.
>There is no specific mechanism, there could be any number of factors.
Well people come to other faiths and preform and witness miracles so you are correct in other factors being there, what would you call such factors?
Blake Thomas
If you are interested, know that if you come to the faith of Christ, it is through the Holy Spirit, not by my convincing.
>what would you call such factors? Pathological, moral, cultural, rational, any number of factors. Christianity says, though, that you *cannot* become a Christian unless it is through the Holy Spirit. That is, even if these factors make you interested in Christianity, you will never actually join unless it is through the Spirit, because God ensures that.
William Richardson
So seeing as there are offshoots of said church with different beliefs, it is indeed a denomination.
Logan Young
>If you are interested, know that if you come to the faith of Christ, it is through the Holy Spirit, not by my convincing.
Please I dont want to be rude but that doesnt answer the question I posed or if it does it needs some further clarficiation.
>Pathological, moral, cultural, rational, any number of factors. Christianity says, though, that you *cannot* become a Christian unless it is through the Holy Spirit. That is, even if these factors make you interested in Christianity, you will never actually join unless it is through the Spirit, because God ensures that.
Does that mean God prevents some people from joining?
Also can you clarify your position on the miracles and miracle workers of other faiths
Daniel Morales
Thank you Farter
Samuel Carter
>you will never actually join unless it is through the Spirit, because God ensures that. Do Eastern Orthodox Christians have a Calvinist/Reformed understanding of Grace? That God has predestined Humans on earth to save from Hell since before earth even existed?
>The Orthodox Church is the entierty of the Church Christ founded.
The Church are all Christians. Orthodoxy is the Roman State Church version of the Church that Paul founded. And it also had significant liturgical and dogmatic changes right till 1204. After that it basically stayed the same.
Nathaniel Parker
Arent Orthodox unchanging in Dogma though?
Julian Rodriguez
I might be wrong but as I understand it it's sort of both: it is NOT the case that there is a set list of The Elect and if you aren't on the list you're screwed. But you don't really have a soul. A soul is like musical skill or a well-entrenched habit, cultivayed over time. You build your soul up by living right (not the same thing as works, although good works are an inevitable byproduct if you are living right). So there's that awful severity but without the stupid new aristocracy.
Lucas Ross
Offshoots from the Church Christ founded doesn't make the Church Christ founded a denomination. Because those offshoots are not a part of it. The Orthodox Church is the *total* Church
>Please I dont want to be rude but that doesnt answer the question I posed or if it does it needs some further clarficiation. I mean that I can present all sorts of evidence and reason, but ultimately, your conversion is based on synergism with the Holy Spirit. It wouldn't come through some sort of checklist and saying, "Yep, the Orthodox Church checks out." No one will ever convert that way.
>Does that mean God prevents some people from joining? God doesn't prevent anyone from joining, it's just they can only join his way.
>Also can you clarify your position on the miracles and miracle workers of other faiths Not really, since the most I could offer is speculation, outside of a case-by-case analysis of miracles, and even then there's a good chance I wouldn't have enough information to provide an answer beyond conjecture
Matthew Clark
No, our understanding is called "synergism"
Yeah
Blake Adams
>I mean that I can present all sorts of evidence and reason.
What would that reason and evidence, I really want to see how you deal with the question of other religions.
>"Yep, the Orthodox Church checks out." No one will ever convert that way.
Is that a statement of faith from the Church fathers or a deduction?
>God doesn't prevent anyone from joining, it's just they can only join his way.
So what happens to people who try and seek Christ in Orthodoxy but fail to be convinced or who find it in other faiths and demoninations?
>Not really, since the most I could offer is speculation, outside of a case-by-case analysis of miracles, and even then there's a good chance I wouldn't have enough information to provide an answer beyond conjecture
But you can ie "no other faiths have miracles" "other miracles are illusory/satanic" "other faiths have miracles as valid as our own" ect these dont require you to make an exhaustive investigation of every single miracle report,
The abandonment of Rome's primacy alone was already a change of what had been agreed in the ecumenical councils.
Jason Kelly
>What would that reason and evidence, I really want to see how you deal with the question of other religions. I mean an argument for Christ's Resurrection
>Is that a statement of faith from the Church fathers or a deduction? Neither. I mean that there is no basis for a checklist. What basis would you use?
>So what happens to people who try and seek Christ in Orthodoxy but fail to be convinced or who find it in other faiths and demoninations? We don't know.
>But you can ie "no other faiths have miracles" "other miracles are illusory/satanic" "other faiths have miracles as valid as our own" ect these dont require you to make an exhaustive investigation of every single miracle report, God can work miracles in many ways. Other faiths don't have them, but that doesn't mean the Christian God doesn't work them in other places and times and so on.
No Ecumenical Council said that the Pope had Universal Jurisdiction, or that his teachings are infallible. These are the major issues, and they stem from the Donation of Constantine
Easton Gray
>Issue of primacy >Dogma
pick one, uninitiated pleb.
Wyatt Peterson
>I mean an argument for Christ's Resurrection And what would that be?
>Neither. I mean that there is no basis for a checklist. What basis would you use?
How can it be neither unless by divine revelation?
>We don't know Well if we know that the Holy Spirit doesn't turn anyone away cant you deduce the cause? Havent any of the Church Fathers discussed the issue of other religions?
>God can work miracles in many ways. Other faiths don't have them, but that doesn't mean the Christian God doesn't work them in other places and times and so on.
Is this argument based on faith or is it deduced?
Jayden Williams
wow thats gay
Benjamin Sanders
wew lads we got an aussie fedora tipper in here watch out!!
>How can it be neither unless by divine revelation? There is no divinely revealed checklist except for "true". You can make others, like Vladimir did: he didn't convert to Islam because no alcohol, and liked Orthodoxy because it was the most beautiful. But there are all arbitrary.
>Havent any of the Church Fathers discussed the issue of other religions? Heathen religions? Sure, but not in any theological depth except where they are refuting them or defending Christianity against them.
>Is this argument based on faith or is it deduced? It's based on the definition of God as omnipotent, which he'd logically have to be, since he is unlimited by space, time, energy or matter. He can perform miracles wherever and whenever he wants.
Christopher Rogers
>believing in millenia old desert scrolls written by goat farmers
Isaac Foster
I doubt the herders were literate
William Thomas
it was written by customs officers and other people who could read and write, straya.
Brandon Nelson
Ill give it a look over although your second point in the conclusion at the end ignores cognitive dissonance which has lead to non Christian groups having similar results despite their religion failing
Note dont take this as me shitting on you or your faith but as wrestling with the truth
>There is no divinely revealed checklist except for "true". You can make others, like Vladimir did: he didn't convert to Islam because no alcohol, and liked Orthodoxy because it was the most beautiful. But there are all arbitrary.
What I meant was the whole there is no checklist point being one you deduced or take as a matter of faith.
>It's based on the definition of God as omnipotent, which he'd logically have to be, since he is unlimited by space, time, energy or matter. He can perform miracles wherever and whenever he wants.
I was referring to the belief that other religions dont/cant have miracles or similar events.
Joseph Barnes
It's an induction. There is no checklist, because the checklist for each person might be different. Someone might just need one thing, the religion that says God is love. No other faith says that. For others, it might be other things.
>I was referring to the belief that other religions dont/cant have miracles or similar events. God doesn't perform miracles *through* other faiths, but there's no reason he can't do miraculous things for non-Christians, Whether or not he does, we are ignorant of, because he never told us.
Logan Murphy
>It's an induction. There is no checklist, because the checklist for each person might be different. Someone might just need one thing, the religion that says God is love. No other faith says that. For others, it might be other things.
So you agree that there is a checklist but that its possibly different between people?
>God doesn't perform miracles *through* other faiths, but there's no reason he can't do miraculous things for non-Christians, Whether or not he does, we are ignorant of, because he never told us.
Is that God doesnt preform miracles through other faiths also an induction or does he state that?
Jackson Anderson
>So you agree that there is a checklist but that its possibly different between people? Yes. If, for instance, your checklist is polygamy as permissible and the death sentence for apostates, obviously Christianity is not going to be the faith you want.
>Is that God doesnt preform miracles through other faiths also an induction or does he state that? That's an article of faith, mainly illustrated by several episodes of the Old Testament when other religions face-off against the faith God teaches. And they are unable to perform miracles, contrasted with God's faith, which does.
Jace Russell
>Yes. If, for instance, your checklist is polygamy as permissible and the death sentence for apostates, obviously Christianity is not going to be the faith you want.
Isnt it more a checklist when it comes to what is true and not than things which are desirable?
>That's an article of faith, mainly illustrated by several episodes of the Old Testament when other religions face-off against the faith God teaches. And they are unable to perform miracles, contrasted with God's faith, which does.
Are only the Church fathers and clergy allowed to draw such deductions
Also I would appreciate your view on the concerns I had with that point in your essay.
Cameron Ramirez
>flag Disregarded
Jackson Sullivan
>Isnt it more a checklist when it comes to what is true and not than things which are desirable? It should be, but that's not how a lot of people think. Observe, for instance >Are only the Church fathers and clergy allowed to draw such deductions Clergy can't draw any deductions, they can only reiterate the teachings of Christ. Same goes for the Church Fathers. Someone is a Church Father based on being both a saint, and being an exemplary teaching of Christ's teachings. Christ
>Also I would appreciate your view on the concerns I had with that point in your essay.
All three witnesses eventually broke from the Church
Prophecy hasn't really failed in Christianity, so I am unsure of what you mean.
Cooper Bennett
These are my gods. How do you feel about that, Christfags? Look upon the pantheon of reason and science and leave your silly faith behind. The only way to enlightenment is through your own intelligence.
Landon Morgan
>It should be, but that's not how a lot of people think. Observe, for instance
That just seems to be a person unsure of their checklist.
>Clergy can't draw any deductions, they can only reiterate the teachings of Christ
But that relies on deduction when it comes to issues he didnt directly discuss for instance things like IVF.
>All three witnesses eventually broke from the Church
There were 12 witnesses and 2 of those three returned to the Church and none of them denied witnessing the plates even when they werent part of the church.
>Prophecy hasn't really failed in Christianity, so I am unsure of what you mean.
Point 2 of your essay - that people could only fabricate for financial and social gain. This fails to account for
Which demonstrate that people can fabricate things for other reasons.
Aaron Taylor
Go shit up another thread
Jonathan Scott
Your gods are the jews? good goy
Aaron Torres
Are you 12?
Catholic church have way worse Pope. Francis is not even in the top 10.
And how do you think Catholic are "cucked" by a Pope? Because we don't believe in killing others? Well not shit genius, that's one of the most important teaching of Jesus, if you wanna be a edgy crusade boy and kill muslims then you can't call yourself Catholic... So no, Catholic are not cucked by the Pope since this Pope is not doing anything that goes against the teaching of the Lord
Asher Reyes
Can some one help me out here , i used to be king james only , but i discovered that king james is probably cancer.
So what do , what is the best word of god in english, i am not going to learn greek
