Just finished this. Thought it was pretty good but I had a few gripes.
Carrie Coon and Justin Theroux were phenomenal throughout the whole show and Kevin and Nora's stories were clearly the strength of the show but all the other characters outside of Matt seemed fucking pointless.
What was the point of Tom's arc, Meg's arc, Jill's arc etc.? Seems like Lindelof just completely ran out of ideas and never really had a purpose for them.
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Lindelof isn't capable of writing a complete story.
Yeah not a fan of how Tom, Jill, Lily were all written out of the show for no real reason. Obviously they wanted to focus on the other characters but it felt a bit sudden.
Lily is the strangest, how exactly did Christina, a teenage girl, who abandoned her baby in a public bathroom, get custody of her again? Especially since she was legally adopted by Kevin/Nora.
Their arcs were wrapped up. Much of their issues stemmed from their parents and adolescence, which they'd grown out of from their parents reconciliation and time skip
This is a pleb
See I didn't get that vibe at all. Tom ends the 2nd season with Meg and then ends up helping Nora and Lily.
I don't know what the fuck they were trying to do with Jill or Meg. They were good characters in the 1st season and they were all over the place in the 2nd.
John was executed well and I guess Michael was ok but Erika completely disappeared.
>This is a pleb
Not really. For Leftovers the "let the mystery be" worked. For something else (like Prometheus for example) it's a horrid way of storytelling.
The man writes mysteries with no solution. Sure even in real life not every mystery is answered but there IS an answer. Someone out there did kill Jonbenet and though no one has it is possible that her murder could still be figured out.
There is absolutely no reason to discuss the mysteries and holes in anything Lindelof writes because there is literally no answer. He just didn't write one.
just let the mystery be
There not being a solution is literally the entire point of the show. I don't see how someone could sit through 3 seasons of The Leftovers and not realise that
I mean the entire central theme of the show is faith. That's why the mystery not being solved works. The point of faith is that you really don't get an answer.
reminder lindelof's career is over and hes been chased off all social media.
all he has to fill his days are these attempts to defend his work.
Not writing a solution is just lazy writing.
Isn't he making Watchmen series for HBO?
It'd be one thing if this was the only thing he did this with but it's not.
Remember when instead of answering peoples questions after Lost was done he just linked to a fan theory blog and told people to just read that.
The guy is great at throwing out cool ideas but not seating those ideas into the world.
>the entire central theme of the show is faith
the central theme of the first season (and book) was the stages of grief. The central theme of the second and third season was kevin being jesus.
I would love to see how you would have ended the show, explaining the Departure would ruin the entire show
I haven't seen Lost, it also has no relevance to other shows. Especially a show that is based on book, so he wasn't even the one who made the idea in the first place
still just "announced." Hopefully they come to their senses considering reaction has been resoundingly negative.
Ok. Ill give you the first season about being more about grief then faith but in no way were the second and third seasons strictly just about Kevin being Jesus. Matt, John, Kevin Sr. and Kevin Jr. were all about faith.
I'm not really sure what the point of Laurie's was desu.
I would've saved myself from needing to write an explanation of the departure by not constantly mining it for cheap plot devices to force drama, and, instead, developed a series of characters organically reacting to such an occurrence. Also would've kept it less than two years later.
The main flaw in the show (and lindelof's work in general) is was never actually character driven. He just drops random plot on characters and writes them to react the most melodramatic way possible.
no, that whole story was bullshit and was old news when they published it, like years old. it's not happening, lindehack is DONE
Kevin being jesus is the biggest plot element of the second and third season. Though they were more about lindelof's standard "man of science" and "man of faith" bullshit. It's pretty silly to even think of the reoccuring characters from season 1 as being the same characters in season 2 and 3, as none of them act in accordance to their season 1 behavior.
>Seems like Lindelof just completely ran out of ideas and never really had a purpose for them.
You do know the show was cancelled and was only given 8 episodes for the last season. They had bigger plans for Jill and Tom but had to drop it.
We all know the real reason the last season only got eight episodes is because lindelof submitted a script for an episode centered around how kevin got his tattoos.
>it's a tattoo episode
BRAVO LINDELOF
I don't get where your coming from at all. I don't see how the departure was mined for cheap plot devices.
No. I actually didn't. I just thought they had planned it this way. Wish it would have gotten more then.
the big magic happening was used as an excuse to have more similar magical/random events happen whenever things started dragging.
What? How?
kevin not being able to die, the afterlife, every second of matt episodes, etc.
Yea, Tom and Jill didn't get a lot of development outside of being confused kids.
If we take the final season, we realize who the main characters were due to their "bottle" episodes:
Kevin, Nora, Matt, Laurie, and Kevin Garvey Sr.
Ep1: Kevin
Ep2: Nora
Ep3: Kevin Garvey Sr.
Ep4: Kevin & Nora
Ep5: Matt
Ep6: Laurie
Ep7: Kevin
Ep8: Nora
I really liked how they did this with Season 3 where most episodes mostly concentrated on a single character, but it just didn't allow a lot of room for the others.
Then again Jill and Tom didn't get much love in S2 either, since John was once of the most developed characters that season, second only to Kevin probably.
Still one of my favorite shows and easily one of the best of the last decade, surpassing both Mad Men and Breaking Bad IMO.
>more similar magical/random events
What?
>falling for the LindeLOST meme again
Really, Sup Forums?
>I don't get where your coming from at all. I don't see how the departure was mined for cheap plot devices.
maybe not the departure, but every 5 minutes in the show there is some random mysterious event that is never explained and is only used to get a reaction out of his characters. it's fucking stupid and so forced
story was not about jill or meg or tom or whatever, they show those chars as long as they are needed for kev and nora story was about them. when they no longer affect this two specially kevin they aren't needed.
Afterlife was entirely in Kevins head. How can somebody not realise that?
the show wasn't about anything. None of that crap was planned out ahead of time. They adapted the book word for word then they just kinda wing-it for the rest, and goddamn does it show.
So not being able to die was entirely in his head too?
Which is exploring the idea of faith and religion. I don't see how those are cheap plot devices.
Don't think it's better than either of those shows imo but I did really like it despite my personal gripes.
There's no way Nora is telling the truth right? she shouted something in the chamber and bailed, maybe she reasoned that the 2% split into another reality but if its really that easy to jump between then someone who definitely departed (caught leaving in cctv or something) would have came accross.
lindelof is known to just go where the road takes him but i think he at least had an idea, sort of skeleton and the backbone was kevin and nora it was all going in that direction you can't deny
faith and religion are cheap plot elements because they're centered around not making sense, but expecting the audience to accept them anyway.
This might be beyond your mental capacity.
>Which is exploring the idea of faith and religion. I don't see how those are cheap plot devices.
yea kevin not being able to die and then going into limbo and being an assassin is all about faith and religion
>faith and religion are cheap plot elements because they're centered around not making sense
>This might be beyond your mental capacity.
We have reached levels of fedora tipping previously thought impossible
lindelof never had a plan. the entire story is basically lindelof going "what if THIS mysterious event happened, wow the audience will love that, oh wait then lets do THIS mysterious event after it, holy crap! and oh wait wait wait, i have ANOTHER mysterious event."
fucking kino mannnnnn
going where the road takes you is organic storytelling, its respecting the characters you've developed enough to allow them to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with who you've written them to be.
This does not apply to anything damon lindelof has written.
Damon lindelof just drops plot on characters that is specifically constructed to generate a specific reaction then has the characters overeact as dramatically as possible
I don't think she did but I think the point is that were not supposed to care, just believe.
I mean all religions are founded on bizarre stories that people decided to believe. I think that was to point. It doesn't matter if it's true or not as long as it brings you some sort of joy. Maybe i'm grasping at straws but that was my interpretation.
Your lack of counter argument and gracious concession has been noted.
nora's storyline was intentionally vague and any conclusion you come to says more about you than the show. As it was constructed to be discussed as a "did she or didn't she" in order to keep people talking about the show for longer than it was airing.
it's so annoying trying to argue with leftover fantards, the show tells you to let the mystery be, but they then defend this show by using their own stupid head canon
that's not what the show is saying
its deeper than that!
I wasn't even the guy you were arguing with, but you didn't make an argument either. Saying you don't understand something isn't a criticism, neither is insulting people.
Also I can't read the words 'gracious concession' without assuming I'm being b8ed. Nobody can upvote you here theres no need to try so hard
How is exploring ideas that have been key societal elements since literally the beginning of time a "cheap plot device"?
Entire countries are founded on religion.
I wasnt the fedora tipping comment
Yes. He takes a literal leap of faith to discover more about himself.
>Saying you don't understand something
>ctrl+f
>I don't understand
... Like I said, I figured it was beyond your mental capacity. Faith takes a lot of juice as doubt is the natural state of man.
>TV Writers Were Also Watching ‘Sopranos’
>Damon Lindelof, one of the creators of the ABC hit show “Lost,” another series whose viewers have high expectations about quality, said: “I’ve seen every episode of the series. I thought the ending was letter-perfect.”
This is all you need to know about Lindelof. He HATES answers.
Yeah I can agree with that.
There is always a God in a fictional work, the author, so exploring faith in fiction is nothing but a wank session.
there also isn't much about faith to really explore, its just the act of pairing reality down to a manageable model in order to function in life.
>centered around not making sense
Sounds like it's above your mental capacity t b h friendo. Game of Thrones might be more to your taste
his entire writing career is basically
>introduce mysterious element
>forget about it
>introduce another mysterious element so the audience forgets about the first one
>forgets about it
>write a tattoo episode
>lol let the mystery b
Answers are dumb. It doesn't let you find out more about yourself if you get answers.
>get a (you) from something you didn't post
scared.jpg
I don't get the "tattoo episode" thing. Please enlighten me.
holy shit, since the first episode in interviews, the departed was a question which was never supposed to be answered
It's based on a book you fucktard. It is not as if he came up with the characters. kys pleb
that's fine, too bad he just stacks more mysterious crap on top of it and never explains any of that either
Your lack of counter arguments and gracious concession were already noted, friendo.
Season 1 episode 3 fucked me up, I barely ever get emotional at tv shows or films but seeing him take care of his wife reduced me to a bubbling fool.
Seeing Kevin in season 2 just sitting by himself in the house at night, knowing he was loosing his mind was pretty rough as well.
Fuck I love this show.
Your lack of counter arguments and gracious concession were already noted, pal
have you read the book you fucking idiot? the first season is basically a tv adaption of the book. season 2 and 3 are pure lindelof retardation
and, what a surprise, the first season is the only good season of the show
The book was nothing but a strained metaphor for the stages of grief, and the show ran through the book's material in a single season. Everything after that is lindelof doing his standard bullshit.
I compared faith to doublethink. Feel free to try to counter this or just bow out.
That explains the huge tonal shift between season 1 and 2+3. I love the whole show but S1 was so much better than the rest
Have you ever read a philosophy book before?
When you read another person's views on things, even faith, it can change your perspective.
Exploring other perspectives helps you grow as a person.
Imo, the shows central characters did a really good job with that.
there's an episode in lost fully dedicated to explaining jack's tattoo. it's one of the worst episodes of the series. kevin has a full back tattoo in the show and if the show went on for a little longer we were definitely going to get an episode explaining how and why he got it.
Yep, she was lying. That was the central theme of this episode. Kevin was lying about their past to start over again without all the burden. Nun was lying about her secret lover. Nora also realized that it would be easier for them both if she tell that fake story. Kevin knew it not truth but he accepted it.
I'm not euphoric enough to argue with someone on your level of enlightenment. Keep fighting the good fight against le christian menace brother!
Yeah, Nora episodes were the best. Followed by Matt episodes.
Jill was trash tho
The teenagers parts of the first season are the most cringeworthy tv I've seen in a long time.
She did a good job portraying herself as a happy go lucky kid in the flashback episode tho, was pretty taken a back by that scene.
Are you ready?
>It's another Kevin crying scene
>Random acts of violence
>Random sex
Trash.
Why are people so desperate for answers? its the whole premise of the show, how people deal with unexplained shit.
What mystery has ever had a satisfying explanation on tv anyway?
Holy shit you're retarded
"No!"
how about just stop stacking unexplained shit on top of unexplained shit? season 1 worked because it explored how people dealt with the departure, one big unexplained event. lindelof then decided to make the next two seasons about unexplained events happening over and over again every goddamn episode. it's just obvious he had no clue what to do and just wrote things he thought people would find intriguing
I'm watching the FINALE later tonight. Please don't let this thread die.
The only element introduced after season one that cant be reasonably explained is Kevins inability to die, thats hardly "stacking unexplained", its just the reaction to an all bets are off event like a departure, something like that would fuck everyone up, the "world has ended" is exactly how a lot of people would feel.
It's more of an epilogue than a finale, Most Powerful Man in the World (And his Identical Twin Brother) is the real finale
I know its not the point and it could have looked shit but did anyone else want to see what it looked like when someone dissapeared? youd think it would have croped up in an episode, someone studying cctv footage of someone dissappearing.
and its a great one
That sounds awfully close to an explanation....
It would look fake-ass no matter how hard they try
The music in this scene gives me chills everytime
i really can't decide if i like season 1 or 2&3 more. Season 1 was amazing and had much more feels but it feels weird watching it after watching 2&3 considering how much weird shit happens in them.
They felt like two different shows. S1 felt much tighter and told a more coherent story, Kevins arc in 2+3 was great but I didn't care as much about the other characters.
I would like to think that Lindelof learned from that mistake, since that was the episode that literally made the writers realize "Holy shit, we can't possibly keep on dragging this out, we have to work towards an ending"
ha
nah, he didn't learn, we were definitely going to get a tattoo episode
This was the second worst series ending I saw live, behind Lost.
That being said, I loved the scene of Kevin and Nora at the wedding. Kevin sticking with the story of him seeing her past by on a bike and Nora knowing he lying. Then when they get up to dance, don't say anything, are so emotional that they both want to start crying was fucking great.
What was the point of them making another chapter of the bible about Kevin? That storyline went absolutely nowhere
You know what, I thought about this. But what is the point of making up a story about going to the other world then?