Why are Claremont's Uncanny X-men so fucking good

Why are Claremont's Uncanny X-men so fucking good.

From the first issue to the last. (Not including his return later, that was crap.)

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Given the choice between Whedon and Claremont, who would you choose?

I think the main reason (and also the reason why his last few issues and his various returns have been meh) is that Claremont belongs to the generation of comics creators who found out that they could not dictate the course of story in a superhero universe they didn't own. Claremont's X-saga was one of consecutive and constant change, where characters and situations changed permanently to give new status quos and personalities. But as Claremont began to discover, Marvel editorial had different ideas about what should happen in the titles and was not above overriding him and backsliding his changes.

One good example is Wolverine. When introduced, he was a frothing, antisocial berserker, a poor team player and disruptive towards his teammates. Over Claremont's stories he slowly evolved into a calm, collected, deadly warrior and a reliable teammate.But editorial knew that readers liked the frothing berserker asshole Wolverine, so they began farming out Wolverine stories to other writers, which rankled Claremont because those stories went with Wolverine as he had been when Claremont started writing him, not as he was then.

Other examples are editorial nixing Jean's survival of Phoenix saga and editorial bringing Jean back for X-Factor without Claremont's approval.

The final straw came in the late 80s when editorial told Claremont that he would now be getting story ideas and concepts from his artists, especially Jim Lee, and he would have to follow those because Lee was a superstar artist who was making a splash. There was literally no consideration that it was Claremont's writing which had turned X-men from an obscure canceled title into marvel's flagship, no faith that he could continue to chart the course of the franchise, no acknowledgement that HE was a superstar. So Claremont tended his resignation and left with an almost self-mocking story arc where Magneto reverts to being a generic villain (in X-Men #1-3)

The characters in that story even comment on how out of character this is, and a hamfisted plot device is needed to resolve it. Ironically, X-Men #1 became the best selling US comic of all time. Even more ironically, Jim Lee left Marvel to found Image only a few issues after Claremont, leaving the X-Men franchise run fully by editorial and their stooge writers like Scott Lobdell. Not that Claremont has any resentment towards Lee, they have worked together since, it was more editorial that Claremont hated.

Whenever he's returned since he's had the outlook that nothing he does matters, so he may as well just do whatever random thing tickles his fancy at the time. It's a sad fall from grace for him, but totally understandable.

Claremont.

Whedon was good, but it was essentially a love letter to Claremont.

And it was too slow and decompressed.

Late era Claremont is worse than Whedon though.

Is he still alive by the way?

And is he still writing comics?

I'm going to google that.

Basically this: To expand on what that user wrote, I love the shifting tones and long term character development. The sense of dread that hangs over the title after the Mutant Massacre is incredible, and it really feels like you're going somewhere. The aforementioned editorial meddling may have prevented the planned conclusion of those arcs but the tone remains picture perfect. That mastery of tone may be Claremont's greatest skill.

Character development! Storm starts out as distant, viewing herself as a goddess, slowly reveals her caring side, becomes aware of her own mortality during the original brood saga, has a crisis and starts dressing punk, revels in danger, loses powers after being zapped by Forge's gun, realizes she had to get it together and becomes a more cunning leader, and finally when the Mutant Massacre happens, decides with a heavy heart that in this dark world they may have to kill some enemies. She goes from thinking Wolverine is uncouth, to respecting him after they've been through tough times, to ultimately using him as her right hand when she's leader. I love her outrage at the massacre and her telling Wolverine to bring a Marauder to her for questioning then noting he can "do what he wants to the rest of them."

How was the Nightcrawler book?

Yeah, there was an interview with him recently talking about the current state of X-Men and how Marvel is sidelinning them because of the movie rights.

Are you talking about current CLaremont or old Claremont?

Meh, who am I kidding. Not even current Clarmeont is as shit as Whedon was.

It really is, I've been reading his run for the first time the past few months having already read most the modern stuff (Whedon, Morrison, Bendis) and the 80's X-Men has a charm to it that no modern comic i've read can match, I really love the characters and how they progress over the years, he always kept them fresh and interesting.

He sold his soul to Mephisto/Satan/Morpheus.

Also the ongoing slow-boil plot of the New Mutants becoming the next X-Men, which eventually was derailed and now they're just random kids forever. Magneto reforming and becoming a teacher. Cyclops retiring PERMANENTLY (not a fake-out).

>Not that Claremont has any resentment towards Lee
That's fine, I'll resent Lee for him. Fucking Psylocke

>and it really feels like you're going somewhere
As someone who read these when they came out, MM was just another event series where the characters got shat all over, and I considered it a sign of burnout. I *really* disliked the idea that the MU's attitude towards mutants was a status quo, whether that was Claremont's thing or editorial's.

>Magneto reforming and becoming a teacher.
Ironically for a guy who absolutely HATED backstory (Rogue, Arcade, Wolverine), he was dedicated to character development. Mags as a teacher humanized him.

>Not even current Clarmeont is as shit as Whedon was
Whedon was great

Not perfect, and I can't imagine reading it back when that came out (since basically nothing happens in one issue and it supposedly was late all the time), but it's great to read now when you don't have to wait months for an issue.

I actually like Whedon X-Men better than Morrison X-Men

Whedon reverted all characters to the 80s and almost destroyed every single development they all had had since. The only ones who didn't suffer from this were Cyclops and Emma (which is literally the only good thing he did)

Also his plots were nonsensical at best and retarded at worst.

Considering the 90's was the worst decade for X-Men and the 80's was the best, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Also. It’s something Bleeding Cool has reported before, but thanks to Hugh Sheridan‘s interview with Chris Claremont, published earlier today, it’s being picked up by a few folk and might be worth repeating.

Both Marvel and DC Comics hire come creators on exclusive contracts. There’s the attraction of guaranteed work and possible health benefits. As well as access to the bigger gigs, a juicer choice of projects and working with other major creators in collaboration. There is however the risk of missing out work elsewhere. It’s a tricky balance to keep, but it’s common for the bigger creators to sign up, at least for a time, with Marvel and DC. And those publisher do like to get their money’s worth.

Most of the time.

Because Chris Claremont is an interesting case. Famed for his run on X-Men, from the seventies to the nineties, that pretty much set in place everything we expect from a modern X-Men comic book – and films – he has had a long running exclusive contract with Marvel. This forbids him from working for any rival US comic book publisher.

But he’s not getting any work from Marvel either. Still they pay him a retainer, enough that he won’t go to DC Comics, or anyone else. That would have to be a considerable sum, and it’s one that they’ve re-upped a number of times. He did write the What If X-Men Forever series, but that was in 2009 and 2010. And there was a short-lived Nightcrawler series in 2014. It’s just there’s been nothing since. But the Marvel cheques just keep coming.

It’s not that he doesn’t want to write, he does. But Marvel don’t seem to want him to write anything.

>Not including his return later, that was crap.
:(

>90s the worst
>X-Cutioner Song
>Age of Apocalypse
how about fuck you, asshole?

I really loved that little moments and hints.
During the Cyclops vs Storm fight (when Storm was depowered), Madelyne is sitting with her baby, and suddenly there is rain, suggesting that Storm was slowly getting back her powers.

Another thing is that even when editorial was giving him a hard time, he was capable of playing along and turning it into gold.
Examples? Dark Phoenix Saga, that little X-factor arc he wrote, Inferno to name only the few.

Also, he didn't dismiss other creations, but instead tried to build up on them. Keep in mind that he embraced Cassandra Nova, and tried to add her depth in X-Men: The End. He liked the ideas of other writers, and he loved the collaboration process

Very good. Claremont toned down his wordiness, and actually tried to be light-hearted fun, with his trademark cliffhangers, albeit the readership nowadays is too cynical to enjoy stuff like this, because we all know that nothing can ever happen in comics, because "muh IPs to farm"

Claremont.
Really dislike Whedon, his X-men isn't bad, just dislike the guy.

He definitely tried his best, but you can tell he really didn't like the Scott-Maddie-Jean thing they were building up in X-Factor, especially from how he ends up using it in X-Men himself. Some things just didn't sit right.

Man, I don't care if they're opposed to him actually writing the X-books, the least they should do is make use of his talents in some form. They could use him as a editor or consultant.

What a great thread. I'm aware this is entirely because of the handful of anons posting good shit but keep it up.

I'm currently reading through Claremont's run for this first time. I'm really enjoying it and can see why people hold up as one of the best cape runs in history (not convinced it tops Kirby's F4 personally).

The thing that's getting really tough is the fucking reading order. I'm in the #180s and it's getting difficult to know how X-Men, New Mutants and all the minis and events are balanced. Plus there's just the typical editorial shit that sandbags the series. Secret Wars was a fine enough event but it's clear Shooter doesn't closely follow Claremont's run because none of the X-Men act in-character but huge changes happen so it can't be skipped.

I'm worried about the future when it seems like all of this gets even worse. Is there a good chronological Claremont reading guide?

>Ironically for a guy who absolutely HATED backstory
Now, this is a fascinating mention, because a lot of characters had only nicknames, but we didn't know the real names. I mean, what is Forge's real name? Gambit was called Remy Lebeau only after Claremont left.

It also shows a massive difference between X-Men and Avengers, as they are really clandestine team, operating out of the law.

In the end, Claremont planned to slowly desensitize the team, making the X-Men not a team, but rather a movement and idea, concept. But he still wanted to give a fresh new mission after Uncanny X-Men #300 with a massive Shadow King vs X-Men. Shadow King was supposed to be the new archvillain, as Magneto was supposed to go full Shakespearean in terms of character's dynamic

Frankly, that's one of the cases when the corporation did something noble for the creator.
Had Kirby lived, he would probably get the same treatment.

It seems fair that Claremont gets money for his achievements for the company

it's kinda funny, because after Claremont left (due to Harass) he did return year later, and Harass amended his mistake by giving Claremont some editor and overseer job. Claremont was ghostwriting X-Men during Alan Davis era, until he officially returned. All in all, Claremont himself regretted leaving, because had he waited few months, he would have everything back to him to decide

So is editorial why Gen X was his best work? Also what kind of retarded person puts an artist on plot and story? That reminds me of what happened on nu52.

Of course, but he was a PRO. Just because he didn't like some decision, it didn't mean that he was hacking it off. Even if he hated the thing, he still tried to give his best. Personally, people say that Claremont hated Cyclops, but it seems untrue, just look at the pic related. It's one of the best Cyclops' speeches, and it's written by Claremont.

It's really one of the most powerful moments in X-Men history, and it was in X-Factor

also, keep in mind that the story was editorially dictated. Claremont was a fill-in writer for Simonson, and was supposed to end the Twelve storyline, as well as get rid off Nathan Summers, and he did it in a stellar, heart-breaking way

Yeah, I know. That's the only reason he could make Jim Lee's retarded Psylocke story work. Sort of. Still a major derail for the character but at least Claremont made a traumatizing event which would affect her character.

Kirby's F4 is for connoisseurs.

Claremont is a universal book that you can give to anyone, and they will enjoy it, as it touches universal values, and the core of heroism.

Kirby, on the other hand, offers us some of his imagination and originality. F4 is a little dated, and it's hard sometimes to read without knowing the era in which the stories were created, but they are a great treat for people, who love comics, and they are a good reminder why comics are a great medium. In other words, Kirby's comics are more artistic and they fulfill different needs that people want out of reading comics.

In what way is Whedon's run even remotely as good as Claremont's?

>As someone who read these when they came out, MM was just another event series where the characters got shat all over, and I considered it a sign of burnout

Did you really read Mutant Massacre when it came out? I did and event comics weren't really a thing yet like they are now. Yeah, you had the Secret Wars 2 tie ins before, but this was a cross over that didn't have a flagship narrative book and crossed over outside of the X titles into Power Pack and Thor(!). Also, and I may be mis-remembering, but like you said - this was a crossover where characters did get shit on majorly - I don't recall earlier crossovers having major dire consequences that lasted for years.

>he was dedicated to character development. Mags as a teacher humanized him.

I actually loved that he went this route with Magneto. I felt it worked really well having him in New Mutants.

It becomes a bit of a mess during the Secret Wars and even more so during Secret Wars II. Some good came from the changes though like Magneto joining the X-Men. Just keep reading though, it continues to be great after that.

Yes, exactly. The thing is, notice how differently went Claremont's path, and Byrne's. Byrne nowadays, is more or less isolated from the comics. Despite his achievements, he is in much worse situation, but then again, it's his own fault, and his ego.

Dude, the best is still before you. Genosha, Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse, Reavers, it didn't even start.

Also, Jungle Adventure with Mignola's art, Meltdown mini, Weapon X and Life-Death trilogy by Barry Windsor-Smith. After SWII, the X-men will get into a fully indie / artistic era. It's only going to get better

Byrne was always an egomaniac, even when he got his first writing assignment. Jim Shooter had to tell Byrne and Claremont to knock off their idiotic feud which started because Byrne COULD NOT ACCEPT THAT DR DOOM WOULD BE BEATEN BY THE X-MEN (and show interest in Storm). The man only became worse later, such as when he returned to She-Hulk and declared every issue since he left to be a dream, including Gerber's awesome issues.

Byrne has an ego the size of a planet.

Yes, which is sad, because his Superman and FF runs are one of the best, and I really liked X-Men Hidden Years. He was a very hardworking person, writing, scripting, pencilling, inking, and even coloring by himself, and being very prolific. In terms of work ethics, he was flawless. But probably, when you have such talent, you tend to believe to be a god's gift to humankind. I guess that this is what happened with Byrne.

To each their own, I personally despise his Superman revamp.

Why? He added the new backstory to Krypton, and I loved the motivation behind the costume and the symbol. Sure, he made Lex Luthor into DC's Kingpin, but it caught on

Lex Luthor being a corporate businessman instead of a generic mad scientist was Marv Wolfman's idea. Wolfman was doing Adventurs of Superman concurrent with Byrne's (adjectiveless) Superman and Byrne liked that idea for Luthor so he decided to use it.

I dislike Byrne's issues because like pretty much everything he did after FF it feels hollow and uninteresting. Most issues are constructed around only a single idea (the Joker issue is about showing how Superman's x-ray vision works versus lead) and very few of them build up the mythos or contribute anything really interesting. Byrne doesn't really introduce any ongoing villains or situations that you want to see more of, it's mostly a bunch of short one-and-dones like Bloodsport, Skyhook or Host (though of course later writers bring them back). I agree that his idea for Krypton was intriguing, but he never did anything interesting with it.

All in all it's a very trivial run. It's not iconic, it doesn't introduce an interesting new status quo, or feature any cool character development, and the only big moment happens at the very end when Superman executes the three Phantom Zone criminals.

It's a run that's mostly just gimmicky ideas that Byrne came up with that end up feeling way too thinly spread to even fill out an issue.

Anyone who picks Whedon deserved to be gassed with Inhuman shit. A better question would be Morrison vs Claremont.

Fair enough. I might have higher regard, because it was one of the first Superman stories that I've read. I didn't have a chance to learn more about the classics until I later got some "best of" collections.

A lot of the criticism feels to be due to Byrne mastering the "illusion of change" skill, which he was very fond of, unless he hated something really hard.

In my opinion, his Spider-Man and Doom Patrol revamp was probably his only disastrous era.

But I do agree that there is a lot of gimmick with Byrne's Superman, even if I feel that he understood the character really well and gave some heart to the characterization, as his Metropolis really felt huge and wondrous, almost like a futuristic city, but then again, it might be a DC's thing, which is in opposition to Marvel's more down to earth setting.

Morrisson tried to outdo Claremont, t b h
-Cassandra Nova? The Entity, and Xavier is a jerk trope

-Magneto is a Kirby/Lee terrorist again

-Morrison also completely ruined Genosha to the FUBAR point, as no one after Morrison was capable to make Genosha work again as a concept

-Morrison's last arc feels like an echo to DOFP

-Also, Morrison made Jean Grey Phoenix again.

-Also, Morrison developed further the Weapon X concept, which was a mixed bag. Some people love it, others hate it.

What Morrison did well, that Claremont didn't, was:
-Scemma
-X-Men as a School (albeit it's polarizing as well)
-U-Men and Sublime
-X-Men as an actual minority (albeit the editorials were too afraid of this idea, as they considered it limiting)
Morrison also was good to attract younger readers, due to his slick and clever writing.

However, as I say, not even Morrison was free of Claremontisms, even if he did try to challenge the concept, and move it into different directions and possibilities.

So one could say that Morrison was the last writer that was capable of making X-Men fresh. Gillen and Spurrier almost had it, but they were cut short. I still believe that Spurrier would amaze us with something great, but he would need to have a great, high-profile artist to make his book sell

However, I am butthurt over Morrison's final fuck you trolling the X-Men fans with his Magneto's portrayal.

These are really silly questions. Claremont is the guy that set the table, nothing any other X writer has done is really comparable. Even in breaking away from the Claremont stuff Morrison is still defined by it.

You can't compare DW Griffith and Martin Scorsese or a Ford Model-T and a Ford Taurus.

>However, I am butthurt over Morrison's final fuck you trolling the X-Men fans with his Magneto's portrayal.

I think it was more of a fuck you to editors than fans

playboy.com/playground/view/the-super-psyche
MAGNETO
First appearance: X-Men #1 (Marvel, 1963).
Created by: Stan Lee, art by Jack Kirby.
Grant Morrison version: Morrison’s run on X-Men lasted from 2001 to 2004.
Morrison: “Magneto’s an old terrorist bastard. I got into trouble—the X-Men fans hated me because I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. He had started out as this sneering, grim terrorist character, so I thought, Well, that’s who he really is. [Writer] Chris Claremont had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character: He made him a survivor of the death camps and this noble antihero. And I went in and shat on all of it. It was right after 9/11, and I said there’s nothing fucking noble about this at all.”

---

I waited for an opportunity to post it.

also, there is this other quote in wizard mag, when he elaborates on the trouble he had into X-Men fans, saying more or less that he enjoyed pissing off X-fans, but I don't have the scan currently

This.
Also, holy tits, how'd you leave out X-Tinction Agenda?

you guys are cool

Heh, I wanted to include that as well, actually.
I don't know why I didn't.

End of Greys was really good though.

Whata cunt.

I actually stop at 175. Shit seems diluted to me after that.
Storm's mohawk is the source of my only real fanboy rage. God, I fucking hate it.

>hating the greatest character development arc of the series

Her changing her look was the start of an incredible change for her character, especially when she eventually loses her powers.

Everyone is making really good points in this thread and I hope Im not contradicting any of them as I expand upon the nature of business, franchises and corporate control in the 80's and 90's

In the 70's marvel was a comic company, and that's pretty much it. In the 80's we saw a shift in Marvels goals with Secret Wars. They wanted in on the toys in a strong way, like star wars, he-man, G.I. Joe they started to push for those sales and made comics to push that. We started getting big event crossovers like Secret Wars. The business side of Marvel wanted this the focus as they started making even more toys in the early 90's and started gearing up with more brand awareness and tie-ins, products, TV shows and movie deals.

This meant all the content needed to be watched more closely and have synergy and the quality of writing wasn't as important. This is what kept the comics selling, but that wasn't the only way to make money. They needed flashy characters and diverse teams and status quos maintained. Things needed to be episodic. Under this new business plan writers were expendable.

This is one reason marvel suffered so greatly when the bubbled burst in the 90's. They pushed so hard to become more than just a comic book brand, when that hit a crash it almost went away completely.

I'm with Taskmaster on it, it's hot as fuck.

Doom being beaten and then developing a thing for Storm? That's kinda neat actually.

>Storm's mohawk is the source of my only real fanboy rage
Nigga, you gay.

I dislike his FF run. It lacks optimism. I didn't get past the point where Reed and Sue move to the suburbs. I also think he should not ink his own work. Austin or Sinott looked way better.
I love him on X-men, though, but I have to admit that I vastly prefer Cockrum.

I really, really, really like the original design.
It is one of my favorite designs ever.
I lean more towards Brood saga type stuff than Life Death or whatever it was, anyway. Which is also why I lose interest in the 180's.

>gay
Let's not get silly, user.

>comparing morrison's run to Claremont's
You're cruisin' for an Inhuman gassin' too, you know

Dude, it was Claremont's run. EVERYONE wanted some Stormin'.
Dracula also had the hots for her, and ended up liking her personality as well.

Not sure, but maybe even Emma wanted some in the first Hellfire Club arc.

Based Morrison

I didn't like it at first but it grew on me after a while. I mean they weren't just changing her look to be edgy or anything, there was good reason for it.

Why is he based for shitting on another's work and creating something bad in the process? That's what that hack Bendis does, and no one likes him either other than sjw cucks.

It's exactly what the X-Men needed at the time and ignoring Morrison's contributions is why the X universe went straight back to the shitter again after he left

I'm not too precious about these things so I suggest just reading through uncanny, periodically binging what you've missed in NM and X-Factor.

I also recommend you don't neglect annuals, minis, and solo spin offs. Specifically,

the Asgardian War stuff from New Mutants Special Edition and Uncanny Annual 9
The Wolverine stuff by Claremont and John Buscema
Weapon X
X-Men vs Fantastic Four
The Alan Davis annuals
The X-Cutioner mini during Inferno (written by Simonson but if you're reading the whole event it's not too be missed)

Also, if you find yourself dissatisfied with the era after Claremont's departure then check it out the chunk of Excalibur when Alan Davis is writing and drawing it. It's basically the perfect "ending" to Claremont's run, even if he didn't write it.

There a torrent for claremont's runs with tie ins? I only found a deadpool chache.

It took bendis to fix some of the shit he pulled off. BENDIS.

Not on purpose, but it then led to good runs, like Peter David's X-Factor. And then Yost's run.

It took Whedon, who wasn't all that good, to finish and explain some of the crap morrison pulled, like the sentinel who went nowhere.

None of his crap was needed or even warranted. Just a bit before, there were Dream's End and Colossus' death, which were pretty good.

How would have Claremont handled goog guy gambit? I know he wanted to make him a traitor, but I thiink fans/editorial wanted him to not be the traitor.

Check XTreme X-Men v1 for the answer.

I'd call Morrison's run more of a mixed bag than outright good or bad

The good:
>Frank Quitely art
>The school
>Xavier coming out as a mutant
>Xorn

The bad:
>inconsistent art
>Xorn being Magneto in disguise
>the future arc

X-Force/X-Statix was the better book but both at least pushed the franchise away from their 90s status quo

>Doom being beaten and then developing a thing for Storm? That's kinda neat actually.

As the other user said, a running thread in X-men under Claremont was that various people developed a crush on Storm because she was regal and majestic and strong-willed. Thor is probably the most famous one, you still see people on Sup Forums who ship Thor/storm because of it. Doom, Dracula, Arkon and others also crushed on her.

After mentioning Xtreme X-Men, I just recalled some bad guy also has a crush on her during that run.

>pushed the franchise away from their 90s status quo
I see you consider that a good thing. I just don't see why "change for the sake of change" makes some people so happy.

>the school
I'll admit it works alright... in X-Men '92.
I personally don't see what's so good about any of the other points, at all.

Claremont had Gambit and Sinister connected from the jump, differently than what happened in canon. He also had a different origin for Sinister.

Some of this showed up when did "X-Men The End", where Gambit was created by Sinister using some of his own DNA with Cyclops or some shit.

But Claremont wrote good guy Gambit well in the late 90s/early 2000s

Honestly the school fucked up the X-Men in my opinion.

The great thing about Claremont's original run is the way things kept changing, moving forward.

Krypton was much more fleshed out a long time before Byrne, including its culture, cities and superstitions. If anything Byrne destroyed most of it to turn it into a dry society. Superman also had closer ties to Kryptonian culture before the reboot. Byrne turned him into a complete American, because keeping any ties with your birthparents is being a leech according to Byrne.(which came from his mouth)

Mostly, they progressed, not just "changed" just because.

>That reminds me of what happened on nu52.
Hmm, I wonder what they could have in common...

I used to prefer Byrne when I was a rookie pleb.
Nowadays I love Cockrum. You should certainly read Futurians. It's very creative, maybe too creative, and the characters consisted of some unused X-Men, but it shows Cockrum at his most passionate and detailed

let's not forget about President Magneto.
Magneto being the president of the mutant state is more interesting than Magneto the Mutant Bin Laden on drugs

Ironically, Gambit was later revealed to be a former member of marauders (not under Claremont of course), so in the end, he was a traitor, albeit of different way, and he did redeem himself

I wish Claremont was my dad

Thr honestly is the ebst one, jsut because it works thematically, she's supposedly a godess of nature, with thunder being her thing, guess who also does that.

It's difficult to defend Byrne, and I'm not really good at it.

It's just that people like him were responsible for bringing the new readers into comics.
Beside FF, I certainly loved his Alpha Flight, She-Hulk (despite the retcon), Namor, Next Men.

He also collaborated with Mignola and helped him fleshed out Hellboy. Of course, the two later got soured and nowadays Mignola denies that Byrne did anything of value, but Seed of Destruction will probably remain my favorite volume

Well, if you're into BDSM, he can be your daddy in no time :)

>some of the crap morrison pulled, like the sentinel who went nowhere.
I thought the statue of Magneto that Quicksilver, Polaris and Toad finished was supposed to be the remains of the Sentinel, it had two heads that *weren't* turned into Mags.

Seed is the weakest of the lot, imo.

Agreed

Lobdell, for whatever faults he has as a big ideas writer, is fairly effective at doing character driven stuff. Look at all of his good X-Men issues: stories like Illyana's death, Colossus' death or Jubilee and Xavier spending time together. They're all character-driven, not action-driven, stories. Generation X, while having them fight villains, wasn't a purely action-driven book and focused much more on the character personalities and such. It says a lot that the worst story of his run is the one where Synch becomes an Emplate which is mostly standard superheroics whereas one of the best ones is the Christmas story early on with Nanny, Orphan Maker and the grotesque mutant kid.

> Claremont belongs to the generation of comics creators who found out that they could not dictate the course of story in a superhero universe they didn't own. Claremont's X-saga was one of consecutive and constant change, where characters and situations changed permanently to give new status quos and personalities. But as Claremont began to discover, Marvel editorial had different ideas about what should happen in the titles and was not above overriding him and backsliding his changes.

Yeah he basically controlled all the mutant books until like 88.

>Claremont had Gambit and Sinister connected from the jump

>he won’t go to DC Comics
I think he has a pretty low opinion of DC editorial. In an interview he talked about how at a party a DC editor tried to get him to jump ship at the peak of his X-Men run by offering him Teen Titans. He didn't take the job and he warned Marv Woflman that they tired to give away his

I can totally see that level of fickleness coloring his view on the company

Secret Wars 2 is total garbage but those New Mutants tie ins/aftermath issues are some of my favorite Marvel books ever