Artistic Pretension

Can we Sup Forums collectively pin down Pretentiousness? What is is and what is isn't? I've seen it in WAY too many film reviews (most recently for mother!) and am getting sick of its overuse in film criticism where no deeper explanation seems neccesary. So what does it actually mean in regards to art? I often feel that a lot of great art seems to straddle near pretension and self importance in the eyes of critics and there is often a very damning portrait made of the filmmaker at hand.

So what are the red alerts/warning signs of a pretentious piece of art and how does one distinguish between that which is ambitious or pretentious?


I'm interested mainly as I wanna avoid pretension in my own work and fear a lot of what I come up could be pretentious or too self important

Have you seen American Beauty? If not, look up the plastic bag scene. It's the perfect example.

I don't think a piece of art can really be pretentious, I think that word is reserved for the people that view it. I would use it to describe someone that watches high brow movies or eats expensive fancy food not because they like it, but because they want to impress people. But certain movies can come off as being too artsy for the sake of being artsy.

Ok what excuses full blown artfulness in one context over another?

That's hard to pin down, I think. Sure, there are movies that are artistic, but if you're trying too hard to be artistic then it may come off as being pretentious to certain people. It has to be a matter of opinion really.

I personally thing Wes Anderson films are pretentious, but other people don't. Like I said, a matter of opinion.

Is it the same as dishonest filmmaking?

Look up the definition for pretentious and dishonest

Pic related

Also, I think the fact that you are concerned about coming off as pretentious kind of shields you from it a little. If you're a dickhead hipster that talks down to people that wears a fucking scarf and acts better than everyone, you're probably going to have your work accused of being pretentious. If you want to genuinely make something, feel strongly about it, and it ends up being artsy, then you should be okay.

A hipster walks into a bar and says "God, look at all these fucking hipsters!"

Pretension is not actually a quality that applies to art or artists. There is no art without pretension. Everything other than candid, uncut raw footage of a real life event or everyday scene from a single stationary camera with no alteration to picture or sound would be pretentious. So basically anything other than a 24 hour webcam pointed at an intersection is pretentious because it attempts to present itself as more meaningful than the sum of its parts (sets, actors, scripts, visual and sound fx, makeup). Every movie requires us to accept its conceit and pretension.

Critics seem to think that they can judge just how much a film should attempt it just what it should aspire to be, and if it dares go beyond that,l and be precisely what the artist wanted then its pretension. It's a bullshit criticism because its entirely subjective and impossible to measure. Thus, it is meaningless.

Malick isn't more pretentious than Michael Bay because if his artistic choices. What could be more pretentious than wasting millions of dollars Making film about robot cars saving the earth and thinking it worth of anything other than being deleted in its entirety from existence? Its the banal and prosaic that are truly pretentious for even thinking they should exist without great effort and thought.

I'm also worried about that to. Fuck sake how do I quell my ego and enter authentic being Sup Forums?

nigga you sound pretentious as fuck

You sure seem worried alot about what other people think. This is a good sign that there 0% chance that you will produce anything remotely meaningful enough to be considered pretentious.

dead forced meme and rightfully so.

You sound like an actual nigger so here's your (U) dawg.

What's so pretentious about Wolf Creek?

I trust muh FEELINGS desu and I think it's about the author and not the work or the audience(as long as the perception of each person goes at least) And like it has been said ITT, it also depends on the honesty of the author. I can watch a malick and and see sincerity in his work, even though sometimes he can get too ambitious and lose his hand(which can be seen as pretentiousness by some) but I watch PTA and Iñárritu and feel nothing but a smug sense of self importance. Pic related is a good example of alternating between good and sincere work and all out masturbation. So I guess I dont fucking know OP, I'll watch the thread and wait for some insight too, I only know is as pretentious as they get

I'm not trained in art but to me when people say something's pretentious it's because they get this feeling that it's wasting their time. Out of curiosity I googled the definition and it says "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed". To me that means mismatching the presentation and the subject matter; if you're making Star Wars stick with what works and have fun. If you're making Lost Highway be sure you have really strong ideas behind all the bizarre shit you want to put in that just can't be told any other way. If you're worried about putting in a sincere effort only to find out you went up your own ass and made something pretentious by mistake well that probably just means you need to work on your craft.

>I don't know what pretentious is
>that guy is pretentious

Ok great, fantastic argument.

Good thread guys.
Certainly pretentiousness is percieved more than factual, but it becames more evident when you have some kind of moral compass attached to the art you're showing off.
Me, I can stand Malick and Refn cause when they tell a story they dont judge their characters and the audiences who identifies with them, but I cant stand Chazelle or Sorrentino, cause they use their technical prowess to put forward their own agenda.

Found some examples of pretentiousness for your OP:

I knew it

Bump for interest

How do you detect self importance?