Anyone else started out as loving Harley/Ivy and then growing weary of it?
It's doubly weird to me as I'm a lesbian and I'm supposed to like it by default, but lately I've been rethinking about my life choices and Harley worked way better opposite The Joker compared to the unfunny Deadpoolette she is now.
Other urls found in this thread:
twitter.com
twitter.com
so what your saying is like all dykes you took a dick and are straight now and think harley should be too?
Are you literally retarded?
>Anyone else started out as loving Harley/Ivy and then growing weary of it?
Fuck No.
It's been 20+ years of slow building and subtext for them to finally be where they are now, also Harley/Ivy is canon in Elseworlds only and are barely a thing in Main DCU, so don't worry Joker will always be part of Harley's life
Someone failed as a parent.
Careful you'll
and here he is folks, thirsty as fuck for plant on clown fucking. Take a shower or something.
Anyway, even more than Harley, I think Harley/Ivy is destructive towards Poison Ivy, one of Batman's few really great female villains. He's got Catwoman, Talia, and Ivy. More than most superheroes but only one of them was relatively immune to waifuizing because the whole point of Poison Ivy is that she was a crazy control freak who used, manipulated, and brainwashed anyone who tried to have anything resembling a relationship with her. Even her plants had to be under her control. New52 made her much more of an accessory to Ivy, having her flirt with being so autistic she could only stand to be around Harley because other people were too...i don't even fucking know it was weird, and even before her lethal edge was softened except when Dini was writing her as being torn between murderous contempt and fondness for the little punk.
Poison Ivy shouldn't be in a relationship with ANYONE she has not drugged into slavery because that's all part of her defining psychosis. Maybe someday we'll even be back to bronze age standards and that'll be allowed to bite her in the ass once in a while, like when she underestimated Count Vertigo and he slowly broke control, eventually coming after her so hard she bailed from the Suicide Squad completely to go into hiding.
tldr; Harley and Ivy make great buddies but once they start fucking and making lovey dovey eyes at each other it fucks with both of their villain motivations.
>finally be where they are now,
They're nowhere now. I was rooting for it to be canon when I was a teen reading Harley & Ivy which are still my favorite comics, and even when I was watching those flash cartoons about them with Selina, but it lost all its appeal to me.
Because Harley x Ivy used to be silly and fun , then they injected the "lol true luv, I'll die for u" bullshit and turned Ivy from a seductress into a man hating dyke that acts like a love sick pup with no other personality traits
the main thing I dislike about Harley/Joker is that if you have Harley successfully break away from Joker and become a mostly harmless anti-hero who looks after other misfits, then that shows that Batman's no-kill policy can pay off.
but if you have Harley just keep crawling back to Joker forever and ever, never learning, you not only lose that, you also refuse to ever let her have any character development.
Harley/Ivy I can take or leave, but since Harley generally takes the edge off of Ivy's hateboner for the human half of her world, it works as a convenient two-for-one special re: rehabilitation of supervillains.
>they injected the "lol true luv, I'll die for u" bullshit and turned Ivy from a seductress into a man hating dyke that acts like a love sick pup with no other personality traits
sounds like my last relationship
The issue is that Harley is a supremely boring character defined only by her relationships with the Joker and Ivy.
She's the Apollo to Ivy's Midnighter.
Still, here's hoping that she hooks up with Ivy in her movie so I have a reason to care about it.
it's still as cute as ever
I loved this.
Current Harley x Ivy sucks.
The whole basis of the Harley/Ivy relationship was Ivy trying to control Harley, but she couldn't and that what makes it interesting, seeing Ivy being with someone she can't control and eventually starting something with that someone
Ivy always was a man-hating seductress that acted like a love sick pup, only thing that changed was the focus of her attention instead of Batman now it's Harley
>They're nowhere now
That's bullshit, they advanced maybe not so much but they have. Before Ivy couldn't even say something cute to Harley or Harley say something cute to Ivy but now Ivy can finally say "I love you" or things like that in comics
Ivy/Harley was basically a Timm & Dinni idea that no one else really knew what to do with but tried anyways.
Timm and Dini played with it though and it was way more enjoyable. Timm draws Joker/Harley porn, Dini appeases to everyone, they didn't want to make what Conner and Palmiotti are doing now.
...
Dini certainly wanted to make it endgame if we go by all the times people ask about Harley to him in interviews
I've always thought that the relationship (not even talking about romance here) between Harley and Joker was what made her interesting in the first place.
Harley/Ivy is okay in small doses, even though frankly Poison Ivy as a character has become a void of nothingness.
Dini tells people what they want to hear desu.
>Dini tells people what they want to hear desu.
I dunno about that, there's has to be a true to it if most of his work is Harley/Ivy than Joker/Harley
Timm is in charge of the porn, Dini replies to the fans according to what they ask him. He's good at playing shippers and not making enemies out of both factions. It's honestly a smart move, like during the Suicide Squad promo he was all gung ho about how The Joker loves Harley and shit, but he still does his (albeit tame) Harley/Ivy little things.
I looked at some pics and forgot how faggy Nightwing looked in the DCAU
I guess you're right, still I think he's playing more the Joker side than the Ivy side, mostly because of this little bit that I've read today, but he could be playing both sides like you said
>I'm a lesbian so I should like lesbian pairings by default.
Damn, that's some shitty fucking logic.
Friends literally dumped me because of this user. I know it's dumb as fuck.
What did that user do to you?
I know you meant because of the shitty logic, but the missing coma reads otherwise
It's highly idiotic. You shouldn't just go through life saying "I like this because I'm this". That's dumb as fuck.
Because there's no future in Harley/Ivy. They will just be a "cute" couple that does fuck all.
Who makes for a better female Deadpool-knockoff, Harley or Gwenpool?
Now that I think about it, one has hype, mainstream recognition, and money behind her. The other has a talented writer/artist team but legally can never leave the comic page.
Whaddaya mean by future?
...because of a pairing?
Man what shit friends. My friends all have shit tastes in shipping but that doesn't make them bad people.
It's retarded but it happens.
>muh diversity
>muh queerness
>why do you condone abuse!!111
Dude I literally just prefer a dynamic over another.
Well you simply have to fight your friends to the death then.
>Gee, Red, what're we gonna do on the bed?
When Paul Dini was writing them Poison Ivy was still a confident, collected and manipulative seductress that constantly got mad at Harley Quinn's antics and Harley Quinn was the sweet, oblivious and scared comedy relief that constantly put the pair into trouble.
But in the modern comics Harley Quinn's now the hyper-confident, hyper-sexual clown girl that does whatever she wants while Poison Ivy is the insecure, lovesick puppy lesbian that follows Quinn around and does whatever Quinn asks of her.
So the dynamic that was fun and cute is all fucked. I don't even care much about both characters and even i get mad by how Poison Ivy has been portrayed. She's so pitiful and pathetic now.
Harley Quinn became the Joker and Poison Ivy became her Harley Quinn.
Funny how life works, huh
Kinda, but the original wasn't this boring.
Well they're assholes. Its fucking fiction.
I'm a queer liberal myself but fuck those kinds of people. I bet their favorite pairing is some palefaced anime pretty boy and the guy who beats the shit out of him every three episodes
>legally can never leave the comic page.
How so?.
NO
I NEVER LIKED THIS TRASH!
There's a lot of peoplel like that.
Nah.
really?
Yes.
Ivy x Harley for me is not a bad route as much as it is the most boring route. Because sure, we could argue that after all these years of build up it only makes sense for the two to get "serious" about their relationship, but that way you'd just cut their wings and remove all the drama that stems from their fucked up lives
Who the heck roots for characters like Talia or Selina to settle down and finally become a good wife for Bruce? What's interesting in taming these animals? Because that's how the idea of Harley and Ivy turning 100% healthy lesbians feels like to me.
And that's not to mention all the out-of-narrative implications their lesbianism would bring. Both characters would never be allowed to get back to their old selves because that would be the evil decision to make, DC would be accused of ruining things for the LGBT community etc.
Just think of all the slack people get for wishing that Harley and Joker could keep their love/hate relationship right now that Ivy x Harley is just a fan-canon, if it turns canon it'd be impossible to talk about the subject unless you're on "the right side of history"
>Who the heck roots for characters like Talia or Selina to settle down and finally become a good wife for Bruce?
What is Earth 2?. Who is Helena Wayne?
>right now that Ivy x Harley is just a fan-canon
What is Bombshells?
No, HarleyxIvy a a romantic couple is bottom of the barrel trash, and Harleypool has been absolute dog shit since day 1.
I like Harley and Ivy as friends with one have unreciprocated feelings for the other, and Harley can work apart from the Joker if done well but ultimately works best with him.
If Elseworlds mattered then Superman should be considered a dirty commie and Spiderman a psychopathic murderer. Come on dude
>What is Earth 2?. Who is Helena Wayne?
The Earth-2 universe was a retcon and something that appeared briefly in specials and a few titles. It was like the Ultimate Universe/Ultimate Comics line Marvel Comics had. You know, something for fans they could enjoy on the side.
Even then 90% of the stories dealing with Earth-2 Batman and Catwoman was all about how Selina was dead after being blackmailed by a former minion into stealing again and Bruce was a grieving widow who had no idea what to do about his vigilante daughter that was bent on finding her mother's killer.
So the stories were less about Catwoman being a good wife and Batman finally being happy and more about Catwoman being dead and Batman suffering while also dealing with the drama of his daughter following his footsteps.
Heck, one of Helena's greatest personal crisis was the fact that she abhor her mother's past as a criminal and that she feared she might one day follow her mother's footsteps instead of remaining a good hero as her father was.
So you know, shit was full of drama.
And it matter in some cases which is how we got JSA, thing is people root for Selina to be a good wife to Bruce which it's how we got Earth 2 and Helena Wayne, thing is people root for Harley & Ivy to be a couple after years of teasing.
Making Harley & Ivy canon won't affect much if handled the proper way, problem is that most of the criticism come from the fact that it's mainly N52 stories that gets the focus on when Elseworlds have shown that a Harley & Ivy can happen and not doing so much damage, people think that Harley solo is a representative of the pairing as a whole when that isn't the case
Any example, if i may ask? Because Bombshells is absolute shit
>thing is people root for Selina to be a good wife to Bruce which it's how we got Earth 2
Bitch died after stealing shit again, which served as drama for Helena, her daughter.
>Making Harley & Ivy canon won't affect much if handled the proper way
You'll end with a couple of two boring lesbians that are content with each other and their lives. There's not drama in that.
Why do you think that Palmiotti and Conner have the whole "non-monogamous" thing in their Harley Quinn book where Harley is free to slut it up and fool around with whoever she wants? Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to write stories about Harley Quinn being sexy and getting into troubles, and having oddball romances.
That's why Poison Ivy role in it amounts to nothing but "the helpful side-kick" or "the understanding girlfriend", since Ivy isn't important, she's merely there for lesbian-bait and placate shippers.
You'll always need drama. Before with the Joker in the picture, there was drama, but now? When they're together it's just boring.
Bombshells is terrible, you can feel the sjw-ness ooze from it.
Well.. Bombshells is the only place where they are canon and Injustice if you count this page, either way Harley & Ivy can happen and it won't do more damage to the characters as many people fear
Not only is Bombshells bad, but the Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy romance is like... the least important aspect of it. They showed up in just a few issues.
So of course you can have a smiling and cute couple in something for small doses, but try to do that when one of the characters in that couple is the titular character in a book. How the fuck can you write stories about a happy and cute couple without not having the book go stale fast?
The damage is that the character become boring.
It's one thing to do it in out-of-continuity stories, which are limited. It's another entirely to make it something permanent in the main canon, because then that becomes a huge weight for whatever writer who might use the characters.
So the solution is either to do the whole "non-monogamous" crap, thus giving writers the freedom to ignore the established romance, or have one character cheating another, which makes the characters look bad, or breaking them up, which might also make the characters look bad.
>You'll end with a couple of two boring lesbians that are content with each other and their lives. There's not drama in that.
And why is being content and happy about their lives a bad thing? "because drama is needed" is not an argument, people sometimes likes to read about characters being happy instead of being moopey 24/7 about their lives, Hell if you need drama for them just write it don't invent excuses of why that shouldn't happen, there's many options for a canon Harley & Ivy story to have drama, it's like you people forget that Harley is full-fleshed character instead of the character she is today same with Ivy
>Why do you think that Palmiotti and Conner have the whole "non-monogamous" thing in their Harley Quinn book where Harley is free to slut it up and fool around with whoever she wants? Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to write stories about Harley Quinn being sexy and getting into troubles, and having oddball romances.
Nah, that just because they needed an excuse when they were bombarded with questions in the Twitter Q&A and they come up with that since the non-monogamous thing fits their lifestyle. Harley & Ivy didn't need that excuse before the reboot, before them
>That's why Poison Ivy role in it amounts to nothing but "the helpful side-kick" or "the understanding girlfriend", since Ivy isn't important, she's merely there for lesbian-bait and placate shippers.
I can give you that since it's the truth, but even shippers and people in general are getting tired of Palmiottis and Conner bullshit
>You'll always need drama. Before with the Joker in the picture, there was drama, but now? When they're together it's just boring.
Joker/Harley was always boring, sure you got stories like Mad Love, but at the end of the day every Joker/Harley story was predictable
>Harley & Ivy didn't need that excuse before the reboot, before them
Because you had the Joker.
>Joker/Harley was always boring, sure you got stories like Mad Love, but at the end of the day every Joker/Harley story was predictable
Joker/Harley had a fun dynamic full of slapstick and Joker in the Harley/Ivy thing was a much needed source of conflict. Without the Joker there's no conflict, without conflict there's no story.
>The damage is that the character become boring.
Why the fuck should the character get boring, it's not like you can't implement a new dynamic to them, be creative
>It's one thing to do it in out-of-continuity stories, which are limited. It's another entirely to make it something permanent in the main canon, because then that becomes a huge weight for whatever writer who might use the characters.
Is Jon a huge weight for Tomasi or Jurgens? How about Damian, is he a huge weight for every Bat book writer? Harper? Duke?. Making one thing canon that's have been in development for years won't suddenly become a huge weight for writers
>So the solution is either to do the whole "non-monogamous" crap, thus giving writers the freedom to ignore the established romance, or have one character cheating another, which makes the characters look bad, or breaking them up, which might also make the characters look bad.
The solution is coming up with stories and stop the excuses, Damian was an out-of-continuity character but now everyone loves him, sure he was hated at first but writers come out with stories for him and now he's everyone's favorite Robin
>Because you had the Joker
And now you still have the Joker, he never went away, he never died, he never stopped existing
>Joker/Harley had a fun dynamic full of slapstick and Joker in the Harley/Ivy thing was a much needed source of conflict. Without the Joker there's no conflict, without conflict there's no story.
Then create conflict, relaying in one character to create conflict in a relationship is seriously a bad move creative-wise, there's a ton a way for Harley & Ivy to have conflict, from Ivy's detachment from humanity and her hated for them to Harley's fear of being alone, to Ivy's seductive nature to Harley's free-spirit.
>Is Jon a huge weight for Tomasi or Jurgens? How about Damian, is he a huge weight for every Bat book writer? Harper? Duke?. Making one thing canon that's have been in development for years won't suddenly become a huge weight for writers
Yes, they're a weight.
In Jon's case he's now the only thing that adds something new to the Superman/Lois Lane pairing. So the editors and writers have been exploring him. Superman as a dad is pretty much 90% of the appeal of the current Superman.
Damian is a huge weight for Batman, as well. You can see in how a lot of his fans constantly complain about him not appearing in books like Batman, as if HE SHOULD appear in them constantly.
Harper and Duke are also weight and are the reason why the Bat-Family is so bloated currently. Lots of readers dislike them and their presence in the stories.
So yeah, they're weights. Future writers are going to be forced to use them or deal with fans constantly asking where they are.
>Damian was an out-of-continuity character but now everyone loves him, sure he was hated at first but writers come out with stories for him and now he's everyone's favorite Robin
>now he's everyone's favorite Robin
>now he's everyone's favorite Robin
>now he's everyone's favorite Robin
Uhh...
> he's now the only thing that adds something new to the Superman/Lois Lane pairing
That's what I've been searching, if Jon adds something new to an old and classic pairing then why shouldn't Harley and Ivy get the same treatment?, and before you sperg no I'm not referring to give them a child but rather give them a new spin, a new dynamic to them, something new like how Jon adds something new to Clark and Lois
>Damian is a huge weight for Batman, as well
Then how come Robin SoB mini came out to be? And every other Damian story? And the Super-Sons book?. Clearly he isn't a weight at all if writers came out with a ton of stories for him
This is a good post and I agree wholeheartedly.
Joker needs to die forever with his fandom.
The relationship between Harley and Ivy is actually kind of charming, though.
I'm sick of all of the forced acceptance of queer and alternative stuff in comics lately (The day Wonder Woman used the term "mansplaining" unironically was the death of modern DC for me) however, Harley and Ivy are established characterswith a very established couple dynamic, and it would be nice it they just got it over with and shacked up together at last. The demanding leftie bitches get a high value lesbian couple like they've always wanted and the uninteresting coupling of Joker and Harley is laid to rest at last.
Palmiotti in full damage control after posting the cover of the Joker/Harley comic.
Jimmy Palmiotti @jpalmiotti
A lot of people judging a book by its cover will feel pretty silly once the story is in their hands and done with. Nothing is as it seems.
Jimmy Palmiotti @jpalmiotti
People complaining make up most of the internet. People that enjoy things don't always have time to comment. Understanding this is important
See what i mean when i say people aren't even allowed to imply anything that doesn't include vaginas schlicking to one another? Jesus Christ
People complaining about Palmiotti have less to do with Harley&Ivy and more to do with their writing in general
Palmiotti is a fucking hack. If you read his feed, he does nothing but say "it's not like it seems!!!111" because he's scared shitless.
Ultimate cuck.
He could take some lessons from King and not engage ever.
Uh, my bad, I'm checking the tweets and yeah, people are complaining about how he might ruin the Joker alongside Harley
I feel stupid now
To be fair we are in a Harley&Ivy bashing thread and I'm the one defending them, and if it is of any use even the Harley&Ivy nude beach issue is getting its fair share of criticism
>I really REALLY don't like in the direction that DC has pushed Harley in, she's no longer the bubbly villain she once was.
>Now she's a feminist and a hardcore hero and lesbian. That doesn't fit who Harley was and really is.
>Her new comic after this involves the Joker, LETS HOPE that they get together again and STAY together.
>This comic has run dry and way too long, it's gotten boring. Bring Harley and Joker back together again like how everyone wants.
>If DC can turn Harley from a bubbly villain to a feminist hero then they can turn Joker from abusing her to loving her.
RIP this guy. I don't think they're ever going to drop the abuse angle from the Harley/Joker formula. Hell, it was present in Bruce Timm's "Mad Love"; it's almost an inherent part of their relationship. It's the abusive husband/battered housewife combo ramped up to 11 with a dash of psychosocial tendencies.
What the heck is this
Personally, I don't trust DC's Twitter followers after everything they said about The Flintstones.
>the Harley&Ivy nude beach issue is getting its fair share of criticism
They're not wrong in criticizing it. Palmiotti and Conner are literally DUDE LESBIANS LMAO.
He'll probably use The Joker to prop stronk independent womyn Harley. Again.
And then she'll get another retarded haircut, the next volume is her flirting with Red Tool and Ivy probably giving them her blessing.
Pure shit.
Why do they keep cucking Ivy. I don't like the pairing, but if there's anything more silly than that is this half-way shit they're trying to pull off, constantly
>Well, Ivy loves Harley... but not THAT kind love, they're just dear friends, except when they're not... but she's really happy that Harley goes around fucking everything that walks, i swear
a victory for purple-haired, problematic-glasses-wearing bloggers everywhere....
Better Ivy than Joker. They spread this to the Arkhamverse too, it's awful.
It's not just you. I'm bi and I find that the more DC tries to push Ivy/Harley the less appealing it becomes.
This is literally best friends talk, which is all they should be.
BECAUSE THEY ARE SUPER VILLAINS.
THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE CONTENT AND HAPPY, THAT MEANS THEY STOP BEING SUPER VILLAINS YOU DUMB FUCK.
Joker wouldn't care. Ivy... either apparently. There's that one panel I hate is the one where Harley makes out with Mason and Ivy's like, "if she's happy I'm happy".
Jesus Christ why.
Joker's very possessive (even depicted as such in Harley and Ivy), he wouldn't just not care about being cucked.
When The Joker is more possessive and Poison Ivy is a happy cuck you know you're doing something wrong.
Yeah.
In the Nu52 Harley only tried to fuck with Deadshot because she actually believed that the Joker had died and she was all alone. Then the Joker came back, felt that she had been with another man because she was grieving for Deadshot (who also died but came back) and because of that decided to torture and kill her.
So he wasn't a cool in the comics like he was in Batman: Assault at Arkham animated movie.
Supervillains are defined by the evil they do, that doesn't mean that between all the evil there's isn't a moment where they are happy, nobody ever said that to be a villain a character have to be sad or angry all the time. Villains cam have moments of happiness, you know
In Assault of Arkham it was more of a "eh whatever" fuck.
Palmiotti is actually decent. Harley is one of the few books that hasn't gone full SJW and he always posts in favor of Cho etc. He is writing a book with plenty of tits and ass, plenty of hot lesbian shit and now we will get a whole issue of good Harley and Ivy naked lesbian goodness.
>Palmiotti is actually decent
AntiSJW =/= Good
>three consecutive comics with The Joker
>has to apologize all over twitter
>the one after has Harley all over Red Tool and an Ivy appearance
How is Palmiotti good?