Is Selina/Catwoman the best Batman love interest Sup Forums?

is Selina/Catwoman the best Batman love interest Sup Forums?

Not only that, but the best female Bat-character period.

I gave up on capeshit for a while, she ever got a decent run since the new 52?

Easily.

The Valentine run in the DCYou period was unique and entertaiming.

Damn right. Best endgame

Not even close

talia sucks nigga

one dimensional cultbitch

>bitch
she is way purer than catwoman

you can't be pure if you do a rape, it's the law

One of her absolute best.

Zatanna is

not by a long shot

>Fell in love with his rapist

>rape
that's not what happened

Valentine had a good run
New 52 vol 6 and 7

Shame she didn't get another dc book

I actually always preferred WonderBats, being a DCAU babby, but I have to admit that Batman: Telltale and Gotham are selling me on the eternal dance that is the Bat and Cat.

Nah, she's a serial killer and traitorous bitch.

No, that would be the Joker

>cover making you anticipate the hand-holding

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Sounds exactly like a cat to me m8.

Sounds exactly like a woman to me m8

WonderBats has the problem that the power mismatch invalidates one of them. If Diana is linked to Batman then there is no reason for her not to curbstomp his physical villains and Lasso of Truth his cerebral ones. At the same time Batman's MO and low power level make him all but useless at worst, and Steve Trevor at best, against Diana's villains. And if Batman is linked with Diana, Diana will be sidelined and made incompetent because that's what happens when you pair another hero with Batman.

Plus everyone knows the superior Bat/WW franchise ship is Damian and Devastation.

I see the argument, but raise you the idea that it can be handwaved by her respecting his crusade and not wanting to destroy the legend he had built (thus staying out of his shit unless it's something that involves them both) and him keeping out of her business because he usually stays in Gotham. It's not hard for her to fly/be teleported out of Wayne Manor on a morning, or them have a generally long distance relationship. Ideally, their team up battles would occur in a Batman/Wonder Woman side comic.

It's looking like the DCEU may be going this way, but they have cleverly side stepped the problems you raise by Batman basically having cleaned up his usual rogues and dealing with stuff beneath a vaguely apathetic Diana.

If you were to avoid sidestepping the issues altogether, you could take Batman back to the days where his detective work was what it was all about.

>Plus everyone knows the superior Bat/WW franchise ship is Damian and Devastation.

You mean Jason and Artemis.

True, but you've still got the issue of the "big" storylines that she'd have no logical reason not to intervene in. The usual explanations for why other heroes don't show up like "they're busy with their own villains" or "they trust Batman to take care of it" fall apart once Batman becomes Diana's boyfriend.

And making Batman be a pure detective doesn't really help as Diana can just brute force investigations with the lasso of truth.

Jason/Artemis is the perfect ship, user.

I suppose as the N52 utterly demolished any feelings they had, it's all irrelevant guesswork anyway. The DCEU is the only place it might, and I stress the might, happen, and cinematic entries sidestep that by not being in-depth of daily lives/quests.

The lettering is horrible, it's badly cropped, and doesn't use the actual translation despite it still working.
D-, only because it's from a good doujin.

I'm just not a fan of shipping characters that don't share a book.

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>and thus began the fucking weirdest night in some waiters life.

She really is. I don't know why there have been so many attempts to give Bruce his own Lois Lane like Vicki Vale or any random girl of the week.

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>WonderBats has the problem that the power mismatch invalidates one of them. If Diana is linked to Batman then there is no reason for her not to curbstomp his physical villains and Lasso of Truth his cerebral ones.
Except that doesn't work because it's a comic book. You can say the same thing about BM/SM team ups.

You do know you can the same for the Superman/Batman friendship and team-ups, right?

Explain to me why Superman never goes to Gotham then despite Superman and Batman being close to the point of considering each other as brothers?

Talia wins by virtue of reproduction.

Well Golden-Age Selina actually birthed his child, while Damian was gestated in an artificial womb.

My main problem with the Batman/Catwoman ship is that once you pair them up the whole cat-and-mouse dance have no point anymore and the pairing loses all the reason to exist.

What makes Catwoman interesting is that she's the mirror side of Batman.
She's an independent woman that break the rules to do things that will benefit herself because she grew up poor and never had any help.
Batman, meanwhile, is an independent man that break the rules to do things that will benefit the people of Gotham because he grew up rich and always had help.
They like each other, but don't understand each other much, because one will never stop doing what they do for each other despite constantly trying to chance one another.

Once you've Catwoman changing herself to better suit Batman's morale and wishes, Catwoman, at least in my opinion, loses all her appeal and agency. She just because the boring and good wife that change her life for a man.

I seriously don't understand why BatCat shippers want to see Catwoman tamed. This reminds me of the recent Batman 66' animated movie were they poked fun of the The Dark Knight Rises ending with Bruce and Selina living a boring couple life in France. What a underwhelming end.

Catwoman pretty much raped Batman at the beginning of the Nu52.

She was also a slut pre-Nu52 who slep with Wildcat, an old geezer that trained. Fuck, she was literally a prostitute.

Rape ?

None of this is really true, you don't seem to understand the dichotomy and why people enjoy the pairing so much. And they do understand each other, better than just about anyone else.

Catwoman doesn't have to stop being Catwoman for the pairing to work, I'm not sure why people who are against the ship seem to keep saying that. Catwoman's a criminal, but she walks a fine line between good and bad, she wouldn't have to completely change herself in order for it to work. Hell look at how she was in Brubaker's run, a legit anti-hero and she was considered the best she'd ever been, characterization-wise.

Julie Madison, Vicki Vale and Silver St. Cloud all served their function as doomed romances, which are Batman best romances. Madson as the perfect marriage that he had to give up to become Batman, Vale as his Lois Lane and Cloud as the normal gal that left him after not being able to deal with him being Batman.

I also liked the Chase Meridian from Batman Forever. The idea of Bruce Wayne dating a shrink is pretty interesting. They should explore that one in the comics. Shondra was a poor fit.

I also see Catwoman as another great doomed romance, but i refrain to mention that because i know it upsets BatCat shippers. In my mind Batman OTP is with Lady Justice.

I like both CatBat and Wonderbat.
What do?

Talia gets me rock hard. So.

She's my favorite.

See, people always go back to the Brubaker's run. Catwoman as a anti-hero protecting the East End is something almost insulting to me. It's an attempt to change the character's roots because writers can't write a cape character being a criminal. So of course she must protect the downtrodden It's also an attempt to also push the BM/CW ship by changing her.

Batman would never be with a criminal, even if the only thing she does is steal things from obnoxious rich people that have too much and pay very little attention to what they own. Batman looking the other eye is OCC. Their relationship should be a cat-and-mouse game where one's trying to push the other to their side without ever winning.

I'd like to see Chris Bunn writing her. At least i feel he'd keep her as a legit criminal.

Lol fuck off with the whole "roots" nonsense. As if characters aren't allowed to develop. Hell even in the 70s she tried to renege, but life just had a way of fucking her over.

And in the late 80's they retconned her helping Batman now and again and knowing his identity, by having Joker frying her brain, mostly because the publisher is aware that once you change her too much there's nowhere more to go. You don't fuck with what works.

>I seriously don't understand why BatCat shippers want to see Catwoman tamed. This reminds me of the recent Batman 66' animated movie were they poked fun of the The Dark Knight Rises ending with Bruce and Selina living a boring couple life in France. What a underwhelming end.
You know people say that, but I think it works. It plays out the only way the Bat/Cat relationship can play out: They both retire.

Bat/Cat flirting and back and forth is their default status. Bat/Cat actual relationship is the endgame, something that can only happen when they hang up their capes and let go of their demons. And I like to think that Bruce will, eventually, at some point in the future, learn to let go of his darkness and help people in other ways.

Basically Golden Age Batman has the perfect ending as far I'm concerned.

no

More like they know pathetic comic fans are terrified of the status quo being changed, which is hilarious considering Brubaker's and Valentine's runs, which both flipped the status quo on its head and made Selina a more empathetic, insightful and well-intentioned character, were both met with near-unanimous acclaim from fans, critics, and authors alike.

I agree with you that the only possible endgame for them is if both hang-up the capes for each other like how it happened in the original Earth-2.

I hate when writers try to change only Catwoman by turning her into Batman with titties in an attempt to have Batman better accept her. Why should she be the one to compromise who she is?

But i like the default status well enough with them flirting and fighting one another, the whole struggle of it, and also them fucking on rooftops.

It makes for good writing, simply because they are on two completely opposite ends of the 'taking personal responsibility' spectrum

I'm not sure that they could ever work in the real world, Batman is just too cold and rational, Selina has demonstrated many times that she gives up on anything but herself

A better match is Harley, simply because she would slowly adapt herself to his craziness, and he would feel the need to protect her from herself

Catwoman in Valentine's run was a mob-boss that did a lot of awful shit. There's a difference between giving Catwoman a new status that fits her and making her Batman's sidekick while also moving to the Wayne manor or whatever the fuck shippers wish for.

Everythinf ahe did was for the greater good. The entire story is about her trying to stop innocents from getting caught in gangwar crossfire and getting them under control.

Shame she's never really in the limelight outside of "my evil son's mother"

Batman is interested in females lwt alone in sex? Since fucking when? The guy never fucks anything, hell he doesnt even look at tits or ass.

Hes beyond asexual.

Gotham just feels icky to Superman. He doesn't wanna spend time there if he doesn't absolutely, world-will-end-if-he-doesn't have to.

Morrison's balls out evil Talia was the most interesting Talia has ever been.

She still had people killed and still tried to turn a profit for her family and other mobs.

You can do the same with Wondy.

Yeah because if she didn't her mob would have mutinied, then everyone would be fucked what with Black Mask and Penguin both vying for Gotham.

And don't try to make it sound like I'm saying she's a saint. She's not. Never has been and never will be. She operates in shades of grey as opposed to Batman's black-and-white world. Just another reason the dichotomy between Bruce and Selina works so well, it forces them each to confront themselves in ways they never would otherwise. It's great for both characters.

I just feel like you're trying to make her an altruistic character and i hate that. I want her as a thief and thinks about herself first and foremost because the world never handled her anything. I find that Catwoman more compelling.

Sure, i hate the new murderous Catwoman, but from going not wanting people to die to thinking of the greater good is bullshit.

You say she was thinking of the greater good, i say she was trying to not have a bloodshed.

Not to mention she strung poor old Slam Bradley on for years, then had a kid with his son after One Year Later

Sure, she's not altruistic, but she's a good person deep down. That's what being around Batman has caused her to confront in herself, because he believes in her when nobody else would. She is just as damaged as him, just from a wildly different walk of life.

Before, she never had a reason to be good. People generally treated her like garbage or just used her, or just expected the worst from her. She didn't have loving parents, or a supportive butler, or the comfort of riches and a home like Bruce did. She had nothing so in order to escape her god-awful life she decided to take from a world that gave her nothing.

I think making her into just a thief with no capability for good or the will to do the right thing is a mistake and leads to stagnation. She can still be a criminal with the capability to do things Batman never would, but denying her the capability for growth and development beyond her criminal past is an insult to the character.

Batman? Love interest? Why? If he must have then it will be her, pic related.

Yah, but you don't need to also place her in the other extreme and have her completely reformed and having a stable relationship with Batman. They should always be in conflict with Catwoman not wanting give up her independence and profession of choice, even for Batman, and with him trying to "save" her and constantly begging her to reform.

You keep drawing these imaginary lines with your hilariously narrow view of the characters. This is the kind of outlook that stifles creativity and character progression.

If the cat-and-mouse game is all the potential Batman and Catwoman had together then there would be literally no reason to write them together in the first place.

>If the cat-and-mouse game is all the potential Batman and Catwoman had together then there would be literally no reason to write them together in the first place.

That sentence makes no sense.

>If dressing up as flying rodent and fighting crime is all the potential Batman have then there would be literally no reason to write about Batman in the first place

Cape comics is all about the set-up since the stories never end. The main attraction of BatCat is their game of cat-and-mouse. It's where the conflict and drama lies. That's why the publisher always revert them back to that. Once you're past that the relationship pretty much dies.

And in the case of Batman, specially, his romances are supposed to be bittersweet.

It only makes no sense because you're an idiot who can't even manage to draw a proper analogue, let alone wrap your head around the idea that character progression and inter-character interactions should't be ultimately cyclical in nature.

"being a villain is what works"
>Selina's solo runs were always considered kind of mediocre until Brubaker

Where is this sudden opinion coming from all of a sudden? If anything, you can do very little with full terrible person Selina, because it's unbelievable that Batman would have anything to do with a 2D "mm I love being bad watch me slit this guy's throat" character like that.

If anything, changing her back to being a villainess is "changing what works"

Brubaker isn't that great either. The fact that he had to change her into a hero because he couldn't write her otherwise sucks. That's why Priest's run on Deathstroke has been so refreshing.

>"mm I love being bad watch me slit this guy's throat"

Nobody is asking for that.

Not to be rude, but I'm with this guy straight up.

Having Selina be 100% "fuck errybody else" makes her both unbelievable as an extended love interest and leads to utter stagnation of the character as "she chases batman, and then she probably goes to jail eventually because they can't be together like in Chase Me (which is admittedly a good short, but it was the only really great catwoman moment in BTAS where she was like 100% selfish.)

For the record, I don't want her to be a saint. I think Catwoman, ideally, should be
>Good person who tries to think of others at heart
>But also adores the criminal lifestyle and literally can't give up the thrills it entails even when it ends up harming her friends

Catwoman should be something like a foil to Batman, rather than a Poison Ivy. They both represent pursuing an ideal that they can never really grasp. To Bats, it's a life of freedom and pleasure where he hangs up trying to help EVERYONE, to Selina, it's a life of stability where she finally hangs up her criminal lifestyle. I think it's a very interesting character dynamic, moreso than "she tries to tempt bats into not being a boyscout"

I know that some people genuinely want her to become a villain because they find psycho villainesses hot, so sorry for the assumption.

Having Catwoman as a 100% good person is equally as bad. She should be 50/50.

Sure, she can care for friends and others, thus never stealing for needy people and sometimes using her skills just for the pleasure to help others, but she should also be somewhat selfish and sometimes do things that might hurt others because she thought of herself first or didn't think things through at all. It should be a constant internal battle for her.

Having her as this altruist thief that's constantly thinking about others or the greater good sucks, specially when the character began as a gang boss and thief that did things for her benefit.

That's something that the FOX's TV show Gotham understand. Their loli Selina is constantly torn between helping others and looking out for herself, and that creates a compelling narrative, specially when it comes to her interactions with shota Bruce since she feels super conflicted about him.

To be honest, I don't really like Valentine's run that much either because it's mostly "selina tries to do good" rather than having any of the character conflict. It was interesting as an experiment and I think Valentine did it because the plot was thrown at her before she could even get on the book and she had to do it, but it wouldn't be a good extended run.

I don't really know where you get the idea that brubaker selina is full antihero, considering big score is straight up her pulling a heist that gets almost all of her friends introduced killed.

This is not even in question, OP. She is, was, and always will be Batman's one true love. All others are less suited and way less interesting than her.

>She is, was, and always will be Batman's one true love.

That's bullshit and you know it. She's a love interest, not his "tru luv".

Batman's only true love is JUSTICE. The women in his life are just side hoes tempting him to leave his true love for them.

Fucking shippers, man.

>Batman
>justice
>when Joker, Ras, Zasz, etc etc etc are still alive
No. At most you could say that Batman is interested in Order. But never Justice.

>I don't really know where you get the idea that brubaker selina is full antihero, considering big score is straight up her pulling a heist that gets almost all of her friends introduced killed.

I see Selina's Big Score as something separate. More like a prologue.

It's basically the pilot episode to the run, I think it still counts.

see regarding Batman and Justice.

Not even close.

Not wanting the childhood friend to win? It's like you don't even know the rules Sup Forums

Yeah, but it's like... the first step in her change. That's why i don't count it. It's the "before" of the new status quo.

Zatanna and Catwoman get in a fight

Catwoman starts in stealth. Who wins?

to be fair, "getting into a heist where all of your friends die" is a good reason to be less of a villain.

Also she does some more crime in other parts of the run, IIRC she robs from Flash's hometown in one of my favorite parts. Been a long time since I read it.

>implying the childhood friend ever gets anything but cucked

jesus christ amateur hour up in here

!namowtac eborp

No it wasn't. He traded one stock archetype for another.

Zatanna goes "raeppasid sehtolc s'namowtaC"
Then they kiss

>lesbians
absolute shit tier

Talia as an international terrorist ex battling for the custody of the child was pretty entertaining.

yttik ytterp a si namowtaC

and saved!

Selina's bi.

You know what i would like to see? Wonder Woman and Catwoman as friends/lovers. Just to see how Batman would deal with the oddness of it.

>Wanting to see Batman get cucked
Faggot.

Selina slits Zatanna's fucking throat

Batman can deal with it. He's man enough.

Also, Catwoman cucks him all the time if you look it that way.