Senpais, is this promising or will it flop like "Vinyl"?

Senpais, is this promising or will it flop like "Vinyl"?

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It's officially been renewed for Season 2.
best show on HBO right now

Vinyl was canceled because of the cost of making it vs the amount of people watching it, the licensing of the songs was a huge cost. The Deuce has far less risk involved.

That's not saying much at the moment.

>It's officially been renewed for Season 2.
so was Vinyl. Then they cancelled it.

IMO, this show suffers from the same: all setting and no story.

I appreciate HBO putting in the effort to capture the feel of NYC in the 70s, but they need to have a compelling story in order to capture the audience. It is not enough to just have people living their 1970s lives on screen and filming it.

Simon said it's planned for three seasons so they might let them finish it.

Like they did with Rome?

So much this. Without a compelling story I can't even get into the players since there isn't that type or performance in the show.

It seems cheaper than Rome, they don't need to put together all those Roman armors, they just need to give Maggie a condom.

>Only 800k people are watching

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deuce_(TV_series)#Episodes

It's HBO though, they don't get as high of ratings as network cable.

>they just need to give Maggie a condom.

You mean give her castmates one. I mean, maybe she has a dick, but she also looks like she has every vd. No need.

I love the pimp side of it. And I can't wait for the mob to really break into it.

true, but they should still get more than that.

Their better shows (Sopranos, Rome, GoT) all in got in the millions of viewers when first released. Even Silicon Valley and Real time crush 800k.

It will flop, not really the best pitch tbqh. I can imagine the watercooler conversations
>There's this new HBO show bruh you should watch it
>Oh, what does it have going for it?
>Well, it's about whores, porn, sex, violence and crime you know
>yeah you already said it's an HBO show, now what does it have actually going for it?

It's got promise, I'm into it so far.

>All of that stuff combined into a setting where it actually makes sense for it to be included, unlike most other HBO shows

Not like there's a whole lot of original ideas these days. Yes 70's crime and sex dramas are kinda cliche but they're fun and everyone loves them.

And HBO loves David Simon so they'll give it a chance. They can't just cancel every new show they make.

Only 2 hours in, if there's still not much movement by episode 4 or 5 I'll agree. But it's still too early to call right now.

Yes. Because Sex and the City, Oz, The Sopranos, Rome, Deadwood, etc. suffered from having those foreign elements placed into their settings. So inorganic.

I mean if there's going to be a setting where you EXPECT to see sex, drugs, violence, whores, and crimes, it's the fucking streets of NYC during it's worst and most violent period in history.

It makes more sense for these things to be included over all of the shows you listed there. I'm not saying they suffered because of it, as all of the shows you just listed (Minus sex and the city and Oz) are among my favorite shows. But you can't deny these themes fit more with this show than those.

Yes I can.

They fit MUCH more into Deadwood, The Sopranos and Oz. And equally so with any other.

You act as if they put as much rape into Silicon Valley as they do in Oz.

These elements are not gratuitous in any series produced by HBO in which they were portrayed. Maybe on Dream On they were.

What the fuck are you talking about? Stop getting so defensive about a hyperbolic example I used. Explicit sexual content and heavy drug use fits in MORE with a tv show about the PORN AND PROSTITUTION INDUSTRY than it does about a quasi-western, a mob show, or a prison show. I never said it didn't fit with those. I said it fits better with THIS show. When you hear the premise of this show, you expect to see nudity and sex. It makes thematic sense. Having it be absent would undercut the entire point of the show. Therefore complaining about it is fucking retarded.

The porn industry didn't see half the drugs, violence and sex they had in Deadwood. Irl, my dude.

The Sopranos is about a mob crew operating out of a strip bar.

You're just very wrong. Its has a much a place in any show used thus far.

>IMO, this show suffers from the same: all setting and no story.
remember the wire's first 4 episodes?
david simon shows tends to always have a lot of exposition during the first episodes of his shows...
though it might be kind of tight to have as much exposition if you only have 8 episodes to work with...

I trust him. Simon.

But to claim there was no story there at the beginning of The Wire is wrong. This is different.

Reminder: HBO cancelled Deadwood and hasn't come close to reaching that level of kinovision since.

i just mean that it took everyone a few episodes to get into the wire's rhythm and its unique way o storytelling. the deuce is no different. though it's true that most of the story happens in fanco's and HELLO BEAUTIFUL's arc, the rest is just worldbuilding.
whithin two episodes vinnie is getting his own mob-bar to manage and hello beautiful is setting foot in the porn business. i wouldn't say that the show is slow... i don't expect the show to have suspenseful storytelling, i don't think that that's what Simon wanted to go for.

this:the wire set up the whole BPD vs Barksdale org conflict in the first episode. the formation of the task force with mcnulty. all that was right at the beginning. sure there was exposition, but at least there was that foundation of a story that would drive the rest of the season (and the series as a whole)

The Deuce? More like The Deuce lol

>but at least there was that foundation of a story that would drive the rest of the season

yoo have that too in the deuce. just think about it:
>vinnie moving out of his house to focus on his job managing the bar
>establishing hello beautiful as a smart street player who's destined for more than just being a street whore
>lori arriving in the city and being tangled up in the street
>establishing the police as the opposing force to all the street criminals

Ok, but where's the conflict? is there a villain?

cause to me, it just sounds like a collection of criminals going about their day to day life.

what is driving these characters? what are their motivations?

to me, it really seems like everyone is just trying to get by (which isn't great story telling).

sounds like the sopranos tbqh

> doesn't mention Deadwood

>is there a villain?
stay with capeshit if you need cartoon-villains in every media you watch, kid.

Only seen the first episode. I liked it very much.

this

I hope it wont be a flog for Maggies sake, everythings shes done for it to be canceled in a year would be terrible

Are there any cool car chases or crazy monsters?

yea but right in the beginning you had conflict:

tony sopranos mental issues. his panic attacks.

Theres the hook right there. There is the central conflict. It is an introspective look at the heart of a career criminal. it is tony's story.

the villain doesn't need to be in a cape.

>swearengen
>stringer bell
>the lannisters

the villain doesn't even need to be a person. it can be anything, but it has to provide conflict. I fail to see that in the deuce thus far

Haven't seen the 2nd episode yet but it looked like The Pimps and the Mob were going to be the villains.

>Everyone complaining literally after two episodes

Give it time. It's fucking David Simon. He likes to take his time. There's enough movement in the first two episodes to get you into the world and at least mildly invested in these characters. We'll see where it goes, but for now, it's too early to give any real complaints.

That fat porn store guy looks and sounds so much like John Goodman.

HBO cares about buzz. Game of Thrones for example, was made because people had been talking about a show being made for years and everyone was excited for it when it came out and it did deliver on a lot of things. With Vinyl and Deuce, there's no real buzz about anything other than a mild simmer about whether or not it'll even make it to a second season.

HBO has more programming than you likely realize. They rely on "Buzz" to fuel their big budget and blockbuster shows - right now, GoT and Westworld. They know people aren't going to generate buzz about a crime show about the porn industry. Leftovers had absolutely no buzz, maybe until season 3, and that made it 3 seasons.

Vinyl was cancelled because it was a trainwreck of a show and was DOA. HBO knows not every show is going to be GoT.

I would love to actually see Francos character thrive rather than something get him into shit with the Mob like his brother getting further into debt and getting him involved which is what I predict will happen.
The girls we can already see a volatile relationship with the pimps and Johns so that's bound to explode at some point.
And so far with the cops we've only seen the nice community cops who to some degree are keeping the peace and actually looking out for the prostitutes which cant last forever.
Also Gylenhalls character is probably gonna lose custody of her kid or visitation rights or whatever.
So no, I don't really see anything continuing to run smoothly with the tightrope theyve already established

loads of people joked about how a lot of Sopranos scenes were set in a strip club for no real reason when it aired.

>They know people aren't going to generate buzz about a crime show about the porn industry.

The show itself doesn't generate buzz, but that kind of content is exactly what HBO wants to be known for. if they stopped airing these kinds of shows, meaning shows about crime, sex and violence, the entire brand of HBO would change within a few years from the kind of that airs legendary shows like Oz and Sopranos to mostly being sports and comedy shows.

Vinyl was far superior but this costed less will so it will likely get subsequent seasons especially since the plan is only 3 seasons.

I'm not complaining. I just think that user in wrong is saying HBO expects buzz from every show and will cancel immediately if it's not hitting right. Especially one by David Simon

It's like others are saying, what it really comes down to is Vinyl cost $100 Million to make. This cost $12 Million. And this so far has better ratings then Vinyl did.

>Vinyl cost $100 mil to make

How is this possible? Licensing?

>Ok, but where's the conflict? is there a villain?
Did Treme have a villain? The conflict is entirely character based. Vince has to shoulder his brother's enormous mob bookie debt and wants to achieve success on his own since until now he's been the good guy just trying to grind it out. Candy struggles being an absentee mom who can't earn money in any other way but hooking, so doing porn is her way to get ahead in life. The pimp wants to settle down and have a happy family life and hates how empty and lonely being a pimp is, but it's how he makes dough so he's forced to srick with it.

>cause to me, it just sounds like a collection of criminals going about their day to day life.

Yeah, pretty much. And they're going to revolutionalize the porn business in the process.

>what is driving these characters? what are their motivations?
Money, and accomplishing something with their lives. How dumb are you that you don't see it?

Vinyl was also sort of Scorsese's follow up to Boardwalk Empire, so it had high expectations to be a giant hit. David Simon shows are always more about critical acclaim and prestige.

Yep. What did you expect, the only industry more greedy than Hollywood is the music industry.

My feeling is it's going to flop hard. Vinyl was infinitely superior, and it collapsed halfway through, it was just fucking ponderous by then. This is already ponderous.

Just stop posting. HBO doesn't care about ratings, they sell subs to HBONow, now.

Simon with Ed Burns
>The Wire
>GK
Both masterpieces

Simon without Burns
>The Corner
>Treme
>Show Me A Hero
>The Deuce
Boring

The Corner was with Burns.

>Treme
>Show me a hero
>Boring

Let me guess, not enough murders for you?

>g in the effort to capture the feel of NYC in the 70s
but why would anyone give a damn about that? what's so special about the 70s' new york? it was a hellhole filled with niggers, white trash and all kind of scum.

>what's so special about the 70s' new york?

Crime, the nightlife, the rampant corruption, comfy aesthetics...

That makes for great movies and shows. No one wants to watch stuff about millenial trustfund kids living in mansions and daddy bails them out whenever they do something wrong.

i love deadwood but season 3 was kind of a mess, the jane/that-tolliver-girl-what's-her-name relationship was w.o.a.t.

That's exactly what was so special about it. People like to watch degenerates fuck their lives up from the comfort of their homes

He's done generation kill and treme afterwards, not to mention that other The Wire seasons get the plot train running more quickly except maybe S2. He shoulda have learned by now.

fun fact: hbo has never made a dime off simon's shows and they only keep giving him chances because he's a jew. the wire is the only show that had a moderate success, and even that more in the cult zone. so, don't worry simon fags, you will get your three seasons of tits, asses and dicks.

lmao

>autistic teenager imagines human conversation

I think it's really good.
>The cast from The Wire are all really good in their new roles.
>Maggie is disgusting to look at but is a good actress.
>I hate the main pimp, he's a terrible actor.
>The guy who played Chris in The Wire is really good.
>Something about having two Franco's onscreen is genius.
>NYU girl I want to fugg, don't understand what they're gonna do with her story. Will be mad if she becomes a pornstar.