Justice League

Judging by the trailer; Batman is the most social member of the DCEU Justice League.

How does this make you feel Sup Forums?

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Like they've RAPED MY ENTIRE CHILDHOOD, OHMYGOD SNYDER HOW CAN YOU DO THAT TO MEEE!!!!!!

He is used to playing others as both Wayne and a detective. In a lot of stories, including the opening to Batman Rebirth for a recent example, he isn't opposed to disguises.

In the case of the DCEU, saving the earth means he has to play recruiter and backer of the Justice League. As it should be. I like it better when he eventually gets kicked out of his own team for having kill-files. It's fun.

I'm more interested in why Diana is sticking so close to him. She doesn't have to be sat in the Batcave for him to build the JL. That is an incredible amount of trust from Bruce.

Snyder is probably going with the mandatory romance subplot.

I sort of hope so. I grew up with the DCAU, so it feels natural, and there were vibes in BvS. Clark has Lois, Trevor is long dead, and Selina will be middle aged, so it's unlikely we'll get the usual couples.

>forcing yourself to hate good movies

Like it's accurate to the comics.
He acts like a brooding loner, but Batman has a massive number of colleagues he works with regularly.

Sounds about right.
Batman is the social, personable leader, Wonder Woman is jaded and has abandoned humanity, Deadshot is a charming hero, and Superman is a sad reluctant loner.

Just like muh comics.

this

>not muh

>muh movies
>muh kino
>muh memes

Superman hasn't been reluctant in anyway. He actively wanted to help people his entire life he only restatsined himself out of fear of doing more harm then good.
And being a sadish loner Is indeed faithful to varying degrees to multiple versions of his origins.

>can't keep secret identity in BvS
>reveal hislef infront of literally everyone in JL
This Bruce is retarded. How did he survived all these years?

>Batman is the social, personable leader
Bruce has always been social & personal, Batman isn't but Batman is a solid leader, they just let the separation be more vague so he can gain his new allies trust.

>Wonder Woman is jaded and has abandoned humanity
She has given up and returned to Paradise Island in several different incarnations.
The Dark Knight Returns universe being one of them.

Bruce is not even real person.
Also
>they just let the separation be more vague so he can gain his new allies trust
Well, that's the only choice they have in this shitty universe where Batman is insane mass murderer.

personable are personal are two different words but I expect that from dceuufags.

Killing like 2-5 people indirectly or unientionally isn't mass murder.

Auto correct is a thing we can't always notice.

much like if a movie is good or not.

WB board: "MAKE HIM LIKE TONY STARK. IT MAKES MONEY"

>in several different incarnations.
Not in the single good one, tho

>literally shoots missle in the car full of people
>indirectly
Also, he killed at least 10-15 people. I'd call this slaughter. And he probably murdered few people in Lex's lab for kryptonite.

Yes and that origin wouldn't work in a realistic paranoid shit hole world with the DC characters portrayed as believable flawed relatable people instead of perfect Mary Sues.
Even a goddess can't maintain hope of acomplishing jack shit in the face of billions of people determined to destroy themselves.

Didn't kill anyone in the warehouse.
The guy grabbing after his own grenade doesn't count.
Only ran over 1 guy in the car chase when he broke through a wall and couldn't have seen the guy before hand.
No evidence the shooting of the back of one of the cars hurt anyone.
Only killed a handful indirectly in prison.

>DC characters
>perfect Mary Sues
That's the most casual thing I've ever heard on Sup Forums

I don't see the problem, the crazy loner Batman is pretty much a meme.
The only times he act that way in the comics is when a Robin dies so other people can tell him to calm down.

Don't you know? DC heroes are gods among men while Marvel has men with problems and godlike power.

Superman in the Reeves films pulled time travel out of ass to avoid failing or letting the story have any meaningful consequences, that is very fucking much Mary Sueism.

I don't even know are you serious or not, because Sup Forums is filled by casuals nowdays
>Superman in the Reeves films....
So?

>So?
That is what we have to stand in the shadow of so it's better to not try and do the same shit over again. It's better to give us a Superman who actually has to struggle and endure hardship so the viewer has something to actually fucking invest himself in.

>implying whiny and angry edgelord is the only way to show not Mary Sue Supes
You don't know shit abou Superman, right?

Did you miss the people shooting at him when he was in the batwing and he just got to the warehouse?
He shot them up and they all exploded.

I'm guessing JL will have more Batman than the rest of the team.

Why Snyderfags hate comic books so much? Go back to Sup Forums.

Why not make it like the comics, instead of the shit that everybody hates them?

Superman died and audiences didn't fucking cared.

maybe if he was less social he could keep his fucking marriage together

Well, Batman in the comics has the biggest family.

>I sort of hope so. I grew up with the DCAU, so it feels natural

>>>/thrash/

Their guns exploded, disarming them. They continued to fight afterward.

Have you ever played the Arkham series? It was basically that.

I dont see a problem with Batman being social per se

But the most thrilling versions of Batman is him as a loner

Also loved Batman in that JL/JLU (?) episode where they are supposed to surrender to the government or something, the entire JL team kinda decides its right thing to do as a team to surrender and asks Batman to come with them. But Batman practically tells them to fuck off and says he was never part of the team and only just obliged their requests to help them

>nd Selina will be middle aged

Diana is centuries old you tard.

I've wondered that if the deaths were more indirect, like the rockets bouncing off the Batmobile in dark knight returns, would people have complained as much? This would've been the perfect time to copy scenes from the comic.

And Bruce is middle aged
Why couldn't Bruce and Selina be a middle aged couple?

Batman's a gloomy asshole. Nobody ever said he's not social.

>billionaire playboy
>half a dozen sidekicks
>multiple super friends from etrigan to green arrow
>founded Batman Inc and the Outsiders and the League

>muh realism
/r9k/ isn't the real world.

>Superman in the Reeves films
This may shock you to learn but there's more Superman than the Reeves films that isn't Snyder. It's possible to have a Superman that's imperfect and yet isn't a constant failure that can only succeed by dying.

You casual.

youtube.com/watch?v=GgkQS7q6sT0

Selina would by comic standards be retired or nnot pulling grand schemes anything anymore.
Plus i doubt she'll put up with his shit .
olus shes not even in the batman movies and im kind of tired of Catwoman. Shes only there to wet his dick. And after 20 years im pretty sure its wet enough

He saved 7-8 billion people twice in Mos, he didn't fail at jack shit.

>Also loved Batman in that JL/JLU (?) episode where they are supposed to surrender to the government or something, the entire JL team kinda decides its right thing to do as a team to surrender and asks Batman to come with them. But Batman practically tells them to fuck off and says he was never part of the team and only just obliged their requests to help them

Found it

youtube.com/watch?v=Owu1d_73CDA

That Batfags need to die.

Contrasted with Batman convincing Superman that teamwork is good in The Batman by showing him how much better he is with Robin. I thought that was interesting and just as legitimate.

>muh seven billion
Yeah from the threat he drew to earth in the first place.
>inb4 muh murderer following me home.

He saved billions apart from that as well, as we can see from the articles in Wally's apartment.

Stopping an earthquake for one, and a life-ending supervirus as well. They could have made it more apparent but apparently having it in the background is extremely blatant if the "Jesus symbolism" was. It was up for the same amount of time (perhaps longer) as the Jesus painting in the background of the church scene in Man of Steel.

I can't really call this Bruce a detective when he literally conned Waller into giving all the info she had on the JL. Also it's kind of jarring seeing Bruce first meet these people out of costume. Why? Because he's supposed to be a paranoid fucker.

>muh blink and you miss it background crap
>jesus stuff was totally subtle gaiz!
Do the sun god one next. I like that one.

show dont tell, man.

Isn't part of being a detective getting information from other people? I mean, just asking around with "have you seen this person" is a typical way of investigating. It's not all forensics and abductive reasoning.

Bruce recruiting people as Bruce has a different effect than as Batman. He revealed himself to Flash to show that he is trustworthy but has yet to reveal himself to Aquaman because there were lots of people present. I'd like to see how this ends up.

So which is it? You can't hold both thoughts at once. Either the Jesus symbolism was subtle "blink and you miss it" background stuff or Wally's apartment newspapers were just as apparent. Choose one.

...

I suppose but there are dozen other ways you could write it in which Bruce learns about these metas, identities, and how he should meet them that are far more interesting. He literally just grabbed folders about everyone from someone who did far more work than he did. Which while we're on the subject, I'm a bit annoyed Waller just has the dirt on EVERYONE. Knowing Bruce's identity is in character, but her having extensive knowledge on Barry and co is a bit much. It's about as lazy as the hard drive in BvS

right, and they had a whole montage also showing his good deeds, on top of having articles show us he did things in the past

>personable are persona
kek u fucking retard

>Yeah from the threat he drew to earth in the first place.
But that is just as true in the comics. In the comics Lex probably wouldnt have been a bad guy if Superman never landed. Zod would never attack earth in the comics if Superman never existed. Same with Brainiac, Lobo, Parasite, Metallo, and many more.


Same argument could be made for Batman and a lot of his rogues.
So blame Siegel and Shuster

First off, depends on the version. Plenty of versions of Parasite and Brianiac exist irrespective of Clark.
Second, when the DCEU actually introduces a threat that isn't a result of Superman, then that argument will hold water.
Third, they literally did an episode of TAS that discussed how bullshit that defense was as applied to Batman. One of the most underrated ones, actually.
Fourth, as is pointed out all the time, this is an elseworlds, so decide if you want to go "it's just like the comics" or not. Having it both ways? Not gonna fly.

>Lex
>not being a corrupt evil cunt
>Lobo
>Superman vilain

You are fucking patethic, go read comics Snyderfag.

How about I choose the jesus stuff being all over the place across two movies and the "Superman actually doing good and not just causing problems" stuff being background that didn't get given its due diligence because "muh realism".

Y'know. Like we actually got.

Because there was more jesus crap than just the scene in the church, even if you don't want to accept that there was..

>Isn't part of being a detective getting information from other people?
Unless you don't want it because then your shitty conflict will end before it begins, yes.

>Second, when the DCEU actually introduces a threat that isn't a result of Superman, then that argument will hold water.

Why? Thats retarded and moving goal posts. It still holds water.


>Third, they literally did an episode of TAS that discussed how bullshit that defense was as applied to Batman. One of the most underrated ones, actually.

Oh, so you dont read comics, you just watch the animated stuff, okay.


>Fourth, as is pointed out all the time, this is an elseworlds, so decide if you want to go "it's just like the comics" or not. Having it both ways? Not gonna fly.

Its an adaptation you moron, which means parts of it will echo the comics, and parts will be different. You are autistic if you think it has to be one or the other. Also by the very definition of an Elseworld, parts will be similar to the core material, and parts will be different. You absolute moron.
>Lex
People can be assholes and not supervillians. If you go through comic alt universes, like Red Son or good Lex in CoIE, versions of Lex that don't exist alongside a good Superman dont turn out super-villains. Assholes, sure, but not villains.


>Lobo
All I said was that he wouldnt come to earth because of Superman, not that he was one of his main villains you mong.

>How about I choose the jesus stuff being all over the place across two movies

MoS had literally one jesus analogy, and Superman has been compared to various biblical figures since his fucking creation (pic related, that old comic over). I mean he is literally based on Moses and the golem of prague.

>Superman actually doing good and not just causing problems

There was a whole montage illustrating that, ON TOP of pic related, AND all the news pundits that said it again. How many more times do you need it thrown in your face?

Judging by the brave and the bold, the outsiders, and the bat family batman is the most social character in the league. Read comics faggot

>MoS had literally one jesus analogy,
it had three.

Are you implying iron man makes more money than Fucking batman?

where? All I count is the one with him standing in front of the church stained glass window. And that was a specific reference to that particular jesus story.

Before that is the "Wandering in the wilderness segment". Yes, I know Birthright also did it, but the fact that Clark was 33 when he puts on the cape (same age as Christ) indicates that this was the parallel they were trying to draw.
There's also the t-posing after he gets sucked out of Zod's ship.
Arguably you can also say the "Maybe" scene is another parallel to the single bit in the bible where we get a child Jesus doing his thing in the temple and his adoptive father questioning it.

And that's before you get to the metatextual fact that WB literally told churches to see the movie because Superman was like Jesus.

You might not *count* stuff but that doesn't mean it stops existing.

If you have to pause the playback of the movie to prove something happened, it didn't get enough focus.

The part where he stretches out his hands to feel the sun's energy (but apparently Iron Man stretching out his hands in a similar fashion after his missiles are tested is just a coincidence). And when he dies parallels a Jesus image.

Superman saving people takes up at least 1000x more screentime than Superman with Jesus symbolism, yet people meme that Jesus symbolism was all over the place and yet Superman didn't save anyone. It's retarded.

I didn't have to pause it catch it, and like I said, there was a whole montage of him saving people, AND pundits talking about it.

It got enough focus, you're just retarded and turned off your brain instead of paying attention to important scenes. This leads to idiots thinking that there are plot holes when there weren't.

Iron Man didn't die on Good Friday.

Those are really stretching it, especially since you say one of them is obviously a Birthright reference. I didnt event notice those desu, which means they werent too in the audience face.

>muh important scenes
Literally yesterday you fags were saying every scene is important because kino.

Yeah every scene was important. Sorry they don't give you time to turn off your brain. That's a great movie. Who needs filler?

I don't think it's obviously a birthright reference because the conclusions they drew were completely different.

>I didn't notice so it doesn't count
>But if you don't agree with me it's because you didn't watch the movie.
You clowns are more amusing than the movie could ever have been.

>boo hoo, how dare they try release their movie in such a fashion as to make a popular parallel that has existed in comics since forever

>But if you don't agree with me it's because you didn't watch the movie.

Where did I ever say that? And I didnt say they dont count, but you are the first one to bring them up. All I said is they werent too in your face, compared to the references in BvS. And regardless, its not even bad they make such parallels. Part of the point is that Superman parallels jesus but strictly isn't a messiah figure.

Neither did Superman in Man of Steel. What would your excuse back then be?

Then there's Iron Man's arc reactor being a parallel to Jesus's Sacred Heart. See how easy it is to meme?

What about how Captain America "died" for our sins but then came back and saved us. And Captain America was betrayed by Iron Man (Judas). And Captain America protects supposed sinners (Bucky) just like Jesus.


Or how Vision is a virgin birth, and is partially jarvis and partially the infinity jem (literally the father, son and holy ghost).
Man those Russos sure are hacks.

>What would your excuse back then be?
That Man of Steel was a mediocre movie but if they didn't double down it might've been a continuity worth salvaging.


>Then there's Iron Man's arc reactor being a parallel to Jesus's Sacred Heart. See how easy it is to meme?
Oh no, I absolutely agree with that. That's why I think Snyder is ridiculously overrated and his movies aren't really deep at all. Just moderately pretty. And his fans are constantly grasping at straws to prove how patrician they are.
If you bitter children could just let these be the dumb blockbusters they are instead of constantly defending them as high art we wouldn't be having this conversation.

First off I really enjoy seeing Superman grow. Him growing into the ultimate hero is rarely explored, and is some of the best parts of Birthright and Secret Identity. I like that through MoS and BvS, Superman's arc has followed the heroes journey almost to a t. To the point where the metaphorical death and rebirth becomes literal. One of the key elements of the heroes journey is that at the end the hero brings back the "boon" or "elixir" making the world a better place. I believe that exactly this will happen, that the plan from the beginning, at least once they started conceptualizing or entertaining the idea of a larger shared universe, was to have Superman bring the world, one that intentionally tries to reflect our own, to a better place, one that more reflects a more classic heroic setting.

1/6

For example, Superman is put in a no win situation by Zod in MoS. Zod tells Superman he is going to have to kill him or else people die. Flat out forcing Superman to choose between humans and kryptonians. Superman killed Zod of course, mirroring a moment from Byrne's Man of Steel run, but not without it coming back to haunt him in the form of Doomsday. In BvS Superman is presented with yet another ultimatum, kill Batman or Martha dies. This time Superman chooses the third way, learning from the first time with Zod, and instead decides to be honest with Batman and ask him for help. They even illustrate this arc within Superman further by having him first just trounce Batman's Batmobile and order him to stop (since with Zod all that worked was overpowering him). That doesn't work, so next time he sees Batman he tries to talk to him, but suffers for making the mistake of once again just using force. But he again makes the mistake of fighting back, and again pays for it. But once he finally stops trying to fight and just asks for help "to save Martha" he starts winning Batman over. And its not until Lois, Superman's loving anchor, is even more honest, revealing Martha to be his mother, does Batman finally help him. Superman, then, ultimately has to sacrifice himself because of the mistake he made in MoS. This does another thing I really adore about the movies, it takes iconic parts from the comics and synthesizes them into one narrative without making them just empty shoutouts, it instead uses these moments to add to the narrative and themes. And its not just moments like what I mentioned above from Byrne.

2/6

One of the best examples of such integration of the comics is how it uses key scenes from Dark Knight Returns (even doing a 1:1 remake of the death scene) as way to deconstruct it. I know for a lot of people deconstruction is a trigger word, so if you want you can instead say an inversion. While DKR had Batman very much in the right, BVS puts Batman on the wrong side. BvS turns Batman into the reactionary stooge that upholds the status quo, which was Superman's role in the comic. They also have the same dead Robin plot point, but this Batman never gets a new one. Batman fights Superman, but this time he goes in with the purpose of killing Superman instead of faking his own death. When Superman is nuked, it is from America instead of the commies, and he willing takes a blast to defeat a monster instead of trying to defend the earth. He also rejuvenates from the sun in space instead of sucking solar energy from Earth (as he does in the comic). And last but not least, in BvS Superman dies with a hint of him coming back instead of Batman. This kind of engagement with the past and with the stories that came before, the homages and commentaries on past comics, that is one of the aspects that makes the long 75+ years of Batman and Superman so fantastic to me, and BvS carries on in that tradition.

3/6

I'm sure you're all sick of reading this, but now that I've typed so much I figure I'll continue with a few other bits I enjoy. To go back to Superman redeeming Batman, there is an intended meta element to it too I feel. Batman is an old character in BvS, and he is an old character in the movies. He has had many more movies than Superman has, and it all these movies (except for the Adam West one and the black and white serials) has has killed people. And we have been fine with this. In the movies, we the public and our inherent jadedness have turned Batman into a killer, much in the same way the universe Superman enters in BvS has turned Batman into a killer. Its not until he shares a screen with Superman does the public question why he kills and start asking for the no kill code back. And at the end of the movie he gets it back, after Superman sacrifices himself and proves to Batman, and the world, that he is indeed just a force of a good, or as Batman says it "men can still be good". Its illustrated when Batman corners Lex in his prison cell and does't brand him (instead opting for more classic Batman scare tactics). Even in the comics Batman started out killing, but once he became more integrated into the larger superhero universe they started telling stories where had a no kill rule. And this brings me to, you guessed it (sorry if my pattern is getting predictable) another thing I loved about these movies. They find ways to look at the big picture of a character, like Batman, see how the character has changed over its entire history, and make it part of the story.

4/6

>posting shitty debunked pasta again.

Kill yourself, autist.

In fact they do the same thing with Lex Luthor. Lex always started off having a full head of hair and being a crazy mad scientist. like he was in BvS There are examples of this throughout the golden age, and a few times in the silver age. Its also re-tread by Birthright and Gene Hackman in the Reeves movies. We see the beginning of Lex's passionate hate for Superman, to the point where he lets it derail his speech at the library fund raiser. We also get to the classic Lex move of him dominating and controlling every conversation he is in. And those he can't control he gets rid of. By the end of the movie we see Lex much more stone faced and cold (sans the scene chewing bell speech, though I don't mean that in a bad way) and finally with a shaved head. A transition into the modern age Lex who keeps a more precise and calculated public persona.

I don't have much to say about this last point, other than I thought it was neat that Wonder Woman regains faith in humanity parallel to Batman, and humanity, (re)gaining faith in Superman, and by extension the superhero.

5/6

>That's why I think Snyder is ridiculously overrated and his movies aren't really deep at all.
What gives a movie depth for you?

I guess really I love that the movie gives me so much to chew on, and that every time I watch it I see a new little thing. Like last time I saw it, I noticed that after Batman's nightmare about dictator Superman, his worst fear about what Superman can become, its followed by Superman looking at the photos of Batman's dead victims in jail. Which is Superman's worst fear about how bad Batman can become. Or how the movie gets progressively more saturated with color as it goes on, the world literally becoming a more colorful and bright place. Or how the bat-creature in Bruce's dream is a homage/twist to a deleted scene from Val Kilmer Batman. I love all these layers it intertwines almost effortlessly.

6/6

Yes, this was what I was talking about.
And the best thing is this is the SHORT version. The full one goes on for like 12 posts.