What's the point in creating OP characters for the sake of being OP...

What's the point in creating OP characters for the sake of being OP? The type of characters that have absolutely no limit when it comes to power.

>hurr look how strong I am who can possibly stop me i'm just strong for the sake of being strong

What ever happened to characters that have to go through absolute pain and endurance in fights, and have to actually train to get stronger?

Ask every shonen author ever.

I like OP characters because then you have to create an even more OP character to combat them and you get really cool awe-inspiring fight (potentially).
Of course it gets stale after a while like in DBZ. Don't get caught in that rut I guess.

because not every character is the same? what kind of retarded question is that

should writers just completely ignore the concepts of absolute power?

Like most things in comics it all comes down to pandering via power fantasy.

Well, Bob is a unique set of circumstances there, since he was created to be his own worst enemy. The Sentry is also the Void, via disassociated identities/subconscious mindfuckery. The character is simultaneously the most OP hero and the most OP villain, and those opposing forces keep the character in check.

So, pic related wasn't created for the sake of being OP, instead being OP was inherent in the creation and exploration of the character.

How is DBZ an example? Goku actually has limits. He isn't strong for the sake of being strong, he's strong because he actually went through trial and error. He's met his limits multiple times and eventually overcomes them, maybe Beerus and Omni-King will be his limit.

I'm talking about characters specifically made to be dominant and have little to no equal in combat.

Idk, I find it that comic book authors do this more than manga authors.

>What ever happened to characters that have to go through absolute pain
Sentry's a hilariously ironic choice of OP, OP.

Yeah fighting himself.

Sentry had a hard life playa, let the dead rest easy

Was Sentry actually meant to be a mainstay character though? As I remember it, his original story was pretty self contained (in a pretty clever way imo)

He's basically Marvel's version of Superman, so it's kinda difficult keeping characters with that kind of power for so long. Of course they had to have him die at some point.

...

Nah, you're right.
Bendis brought him back as a slow-burn plot device. Which kinda made sense in character because the original story characterized him as the sort of weak-willed sad sack that WOULD try to worm his way back into the game sooner or later.

>What's the point in creating OP characters for the sake of being OP?
So that when they are taken out, the reader is aware of just how fucking dire things are.

Another reason why Sentry's a poor example.

Well OP could go both ways, for protagonists and antagonists. I guess you could make that argument for protagonists.

Sentry is special though. If anything it's a good thing he's dead otherwise he could just let Void control him and fuck everything up.

Yeah, I know OP used Sentry as an example, but I didn't specifically mean him. I just meant that when you have your crazy overpowered character get one shotted by the new villain of the week, and all the "lesser" heroes freak out because their big gun was useless.

Bob wuddnt do that hes a good boy

Didn't say you did, no worries. Was just ring cheeky @ OP.

Bob/Sentry is an example of Marvel's commentary on OverPowered characters, in Marvel-land power always corrupts or comes at a horrible price, Hulk can't control himself, half the X-Men go nuts, Spider-Man learns a valuable lesson about responsibility.
Even the villains learn these lessons.
Power is inherently destructive, that's why superpowers always lead to superbattles and chaotic lives.
DC doesn't have the same philosophy, in DC-land Superman is morally superior BECAUSE of his power, Batman was just born better than everyone else in Gotham and that childhood trauma only motivated how he would go about proving it, Green Lantern rings seek out those with the greatest willpower, The Flash is The Fastest. Period.
It's all OP worship over there. And those stories suffer for it.

Wow

That's only half of what Sentry is about though.

>Marvel is liberal propaganda
>DC is fascist propagand where some people are just born better than others

Seems about right

user means that the shonen authors can tell you where those characters are because they write them.

>What ever happened to characters that have to go through absolute pain and endurance in fights, and have to actually train to get stronger?
The continue to be vastly more common and popular all over the world.

ask superman and other dc character fanboys

yeah but saiyans have to be beaten within an inch of their life before they become more powerful, right? that's KINDA like training?

One of the greatest works of western canon was the Metamorpheses about all the ways omnipotent gods interact with humans. Some of the greatest works of philosophy have been about constructing and deconstructing the idea of god.

Omnipotence is not a bad or shallow theme by any stretch.

>Marvel commentary on over powered characters.

You're half right. The original Marvel Knights mini was a dirge about why Superman can't exist in the Marvel Universe and why its a very sad thing. Their universe is all about flawed characters, so Superman would be super-flawed.

Bob had a wonderful effect on those around him before the Void started taking over. He was the Hulk's best friend. He accepted the X-men when people feared them. He was someone Reed could share his techno babble with that would understand. He was everyone's best friend. He was Superman.

There was more character development for Marvel Characters with him than without him. And he had to go away and be forgotten. And everyone missed him.

It was a wistful story for a golden kind of optimism that the Marvel U can't have because of its cynical bent, not a "fuck you overpowered Super-Dude".

>Morally superior BECAUSE of his power

If wisdom and empathy can be considered powers then yes.

>Its all OP worship over there

You don't read a lot of DC books, do you?

>train
Usain Bolt is the way he is because of his DNA, you could run up mountains all you fucking want but HE IS STILL BETTER THAN YOU in running and probably womanizing as well.

Training is for plebs who have shit tier genes.

Superman was raised to be a decent guy from birth and since he isnt human it makes sense how he is Jesus tier in personality.

I guess in The Sentry's case he has to be balanced out by The Void, i.e. The Sentry does something good in one part of the globe and The Void does something equally bad in another. Or The Void constantly tries to spook The Sentry to prevent him from using his power, making him almost clinically insane. Pretty cool dualism if you ask me. The all powerful Sentry is of course boring, if he has no equally powerful adversary to face, but you could also write a story with him being outwitted by a weaker although more cunning opponent or something like "daily life of Bob".

>Pretty cool dualism

It's really not. He was good for the original mini and after that he was shit, basically male phoenix. "Oh not the Void I CAN'T CONTROL IT NORMAN HALP!"

You do know Superman suffers and gets his ass beat quite a lot right?

I mean just looking at fairly recent Nu52 stuff:

1. Has to work up to his power level in Morrison's Action Comics. Starts at Golden Age power levels and advances from there. Gets his ass kicked by an evil 5D imp, has to overcome a super-existential crisis to win.

2. Gets his ass kicked by Wraith, literally him but more. Only wins by outsmarting him.

3. Gets his ass kicked by Ulysses. Only wins by going all out and having a touching issue where he's depowered for a day.

4. Fucking dies. New-Old Superman then gets his ass kicked by Doomsday, has to lure him to the Phantom Zone projector to win. Then he gets his ass kicked by New-Eradicator, has to appeal to the ghosts of Krypton to win.

That's just Nu52. Even Silver Age Superman would get his ass kicked from time to time.

We hear you, we hear you...

"Superman is superior in EVERY way, even in being an underdog."

We get it!

>I mean just looking at fairly recent Nu52 stuff:

That wasn't Superman

>It's really not. He was good for the original mini and after that he was shit, basically male phoenix. "Oh not the Void I CAN'T CONTROL IT NORMAN HALP!"
I don't know man, it was pretty cool how Norman couldn't guess at times if he was talking to Bob or The Void.

To go even further beyond.

C-list fodder to show that the threat is super for reals serious this time guiz.

These guys tend to be so empty because their lack of characterization stemming from the difficulty in writing stories for them regales them to being C-listers, or worse.

Except I didn't say that. I just said he does struggle and he does get his ass kicked. His stories aren't just about him showing up, punching bank robbers, and flying away again.

"Real Superman" is a meme. John Byrne Superman was not Grant Morrison Superman was not Joe Casey Superman. You might as well argue over which version of Hamlet is "real" or which version of King Arthur.

Generally the OP character isn't the focus of the story, the other characters having to share a world with them are. Consider One Punch Man, one of the best cape comics around with a hilariously OP protagonist; OPM is usually not even drawn to the same standard as the other characters.
Insert JRJR rant here.

OPM and Dr. M worked as OP characters. They were satire and deconstruction of OP characters though...

When you have an OP character the story stops being about "fights" and "fisticuffs" and should be focused on something else.

You must be a child if the purpose of every OP character is to fight to achieve their goals.

I don't read Superman, but I'm curious, are all the people he fights nowadays Kryptonian-strong?

Because if not, the fights would always be instantly over, wouldn't they? Either they don't have kryptonite and he beats them to a pulp effortlessly, or they do have kryptonite and he's rendered powerless. Not a whole lot of room for a drawn-out fight sequence.

>What ever happened to characters that have to go through absolute pain and endurance in fights, and have to actually train to get stronger?

They're there too. Why are you arguing against variation? You're basically saying "I don't like X so it should be eliminated. I only like Y so that's what EVERYTHING should be."

To explore their characterization with a backdrop of grandeur and spectacle.

>Spider-Man learns a valuable lesson about responsibility.
How is that a price?

>Power is inherently destructive
Good thing that's not true. Marvel is retarded.

>It's all OP worship over there. And those stories suffer for it.
No they don't. Marvel stories are trash. DC has the better stories. Getting rid of overpoweredness is what made the stories worse. Silver Age had the best stories.

>Superman is morally superior BECAUSE of his power
False.
>Batman was just born better than everyone else in Gotham
Also false.
>Green Lantern rings seek out those with the greatest willpower
Doesn't this ruin your argument? Anyone can gain more willpower so how is this not earned?
>The Flash is The Fastest.
He didn't start out that way and he got it by luck (if you're talking about Barry).

Face it, you're just mad that DC has better characters and stories. Marvel characters are filled with hatred and deception while DC is filled with hope and trust.

The how do you explain Flash, Billy Batson, various incarnations of Batman, etc.? You can't use the "but he's an alien!" excuse forever.

>How is that a price?
never read spider-man or watched the movies?
he was irresponsible and his uncle died, that's the price.

That user means that shonen authors are the ones who write characters who have to train to become stronger.

Now that I think about it, has there ever been a Marvel/DC comic that actually showed someone training to improve their powers? I mean, I would've said that X-Men fit the bill but most of them are already super powerful and already have a firm handle on what their powers can do.

I mean like, a series where the protagonist has a bit of power, meets a dude he can't beat, and spends a few issues learning how to properly utilize his powers to overcome the threat.

sentry is a retard

Those that are not kryptonian tier strong usually have some gimmick or something that makes them a threat to him or those around him.

Like there was a guy, think he was a US soldier, who could turn intangible so Superman couldn't hurt him and he used blades that also could phase so they could bypass Supes invulnerability.

It's only a problem if you think Cape comics are exactly like DBZ and all characters do is literally punch each other every page.

Aaaaand into the file it goes.

...

>Those stories suffer for it
All Star Superman is seen as the peak of the genre. Why don't Spider-Man or Hulk have anything as good?

These.
Making your protagonist too strong to beat just means that you can explore other avenues of storytelling than "let's go beat up the bad guy". The driving conflict can come from somewhere more introspective and make the story more meaningful.
All-Star Superman, Miracleman, Sentry's minis, they stick out to me as good superhero comics because in lieu of Power Rangers villain-of-the-week stuff they delve into the meat & bone of what is is to be a hero (from wildly different perspectives, at that). Ble Marvel comes to mind too, albeit for how explicit it made its messafe than how good it was.

The Question had a lot of focus on self improvement.

lmao whut

That's the thing though

Goku gets stronger so they have to think up more enemies to fight him

Past frieza saga they stopped creating enemies that were op because of their weird powers

And just created more generic super strong guys
And there isn't really a good practical measure of strength since most of the antagonists could destroy a moon or planet with general ease
Even beerus isn't really given any special abilities other than god level strength and endurance

>I never read DC
>Superman being superior because of power and not because he was raised by the Kents
Nigga i know it's bait but try a little harder

Dude, DBZ has always been power level wankery ever since Raditz.

Fuck, I'd even argue that Dragon Ball suffered the same thing since the Demon King Piccolo arc.

Taking Sentry as an example, he's indeed much more OP in his stories than Superman in DC, and that's his function. Sentry is the end-all powerhouse in Marvel, higher are Cosmic entities.

That's why he works best as a recurring character - not a regular part of any roster, or as an anti-villain. I honestly think that besides his 2000's mini, best Bob we've got so far was the Death Horseman version. Remender wasn't willing to go all the way, but Sentry was honest-to-god scary and unreachable by even Thor.

It doesn't serve any purpose besides the standard tropes like "Cardboard boxes world" or "I'm god what should I do", but sure can be cool as hell. In Marvel particularly, as we don't often see a character break reality with punches or push planets under their own power. But when people like Bob, Surfer, or - I hope it's coming - Anti-Man would cut loose it would be extremely entertaining if handled right.

Sentry and Superman are NOT overpowered. Pic related is. Batman has become so powerful that DC in real life need him to stay afloat and draw in people.

He must be stopped, no matter the cost!

Superman needed to train to develop his powers during new 52.

BEcause Grant Morrison has never written anything for those characters.

>saving copypasta trash

Unless you're saving it to bait later, fuck off.