Villains who became heroes

Villains who became heroes

>That guy's destroyed our homes and livelihoods hundreds of times!
>Yeah, but he's a good guy now
>Okay. What about the black guy?
Thanks, Marvel citizens.

Has there ever been a villain who permanently switched sides?

Is Captain America citing Nixon as an example of someone who is not a villain? How old is this thing?

Hawkeye and Black Widow

Beat me to it. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch too I guess. Did Kaine used to be a villain? Eddie Brock counts too I guess. Flash Thompson used to be a bully, now he's a hero with the Symbiote. Does General Ross as Red Hulk count?

I really liked good Sandman.

Songbird
Mach VI

Is Magneto still a good guy at the moment?

But Hawkeye was from start never really depict as evil.

I guess Catwoman and Lex Luthor sort of count. Same with Damian Wayne.

While I wouldn't exactly call Punisher a hero or villain, I think it's worth noting that in his first appearance he tried to kill Spider-man.


And since I'm still reading the Buffy comics, I guess Angel, Spike, Illyria, Anya, Connor, Harmony (sort of), Eldre Koh, Faith and Andrew count too.

He was a bad guy all the same. Bad guys don't necessarily have to be psychopaths.

Nixon received a presidential pardon.

Too bad it won't last, just like wuth Sandman in the op

So if Nixon says Sandman is a good now he has to oblige?

Yeah Kaine was a villain in the 90s.

The problem with comics is that Permanent is just based on where we are right now. Sandman was a good guy for a while and then he switched back, black cat was a hero for a while and now has switched back. It all depends which writer gets a hold on these characters.

Could some altruistic soul tell me in which issues Sandman was a good guy? I´d really like to read those.

Am I the only one who was bothered by Sandman being an avenger? I preferred he was just an average joe kinda on a look out for helping people if need be.

He never seemed to be an avenger level hero to me. Hell his heroic path to hanging with Silver Sable's merc group made more sense with me.

It all started in Marvel Two-in-One 86, from 1982.
Every story made between then and 1999, when John Byrne made him a villain again, has him as a good guy.

Wasn't there a moment when Spidey backed out of helping the Avengers and someone started to five him a hard time and Sandman stood up and was like Fuck you buddy, Spider-Man is the best.

Why is Byrne such a cunt?

Remember when Flint and Ben became friends, I miss that.

What do you mean 'Avenger level'? He has impressive superpowers.

Compare him to Hawkeye, just a carnie with a bow and no powers at all, who even started off as a crook as well.

If he can turn it around and be a hero then why not Sandman?

Was going to say Emma Frost but she's gonna be IvX villain, isn't she?

What about Rogue then?

Even as a 'hero' she was still pretty evil, fuckin telepaths don't have no morals in Marvel

>Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch
i'll give you quicksilver, but sw can't go 5 years without going nuts

>I guess Catwoman and Lex Luthor sort of count. Same with Damian Wayne.
i wouldn't lump damian in there. his storyline always had him going hero

Well, more about faith in the American system.
This was the era where a What If? comic had a Cap that got unfrozen in the modern day basically saying that America is full of shit and that the American people wasted their freedom if they believe the "popular opinion" during the Nixon days.

No, he was a villain.
A sympathetic one because he has a girlfriend, but he didn't feel bad for trying to murder Iron Man just because his girlfriend told him too.

His ego and pedo-lust overwhelmingly impacts his ability to write and regardless of whatever idea he has and it's quality his cuntiness shines through.

Damian was evil for like 2 issues and more of just a trolly cunt than a villain

Emma as a hero had a SHITLOAD of villain traits, it's true.
She just used them somewhat more constructively and didn't get wrapped up in petty revenge fixations and power-dominance games like most villains do.

Man, it'd be pretty lame if he goes back to being bad, he's one of the better things about that book.

Well yeah Hawkeye is an avenger but look at Spidey. He has potential to be the greatest hero ever but works best as a street level dude.

Same with Sandman. I guess i just prefer my spidey characters more grounded than the average marvel hero.

For example, while Flash Venom is cool, I loathe the fact he went off to space and also became an avenger. Only for the fact it was obvious he won't have the symbiote for long and will be forced to return to the main spidey titles as a side character. So then the fucking writer will have sort the baggage of a longtime supporting character who was an avenger/Guardians of the Galaxy interacting in spidey's world with the rest of his more grounded normal supporting cast. Shit absolutely sucks. But hey, I guess tons of Flashfags and Venomfags think its cool despite the fact Spidey will forever have to either accomodate that crap or pretend it never happened.

You are one of the cancer killing comics, the kind the higher ups are referring to when they justify lack of development or endless retcons by squealing
>We have to keep the universe 'relateable'!

Wolverine.

Black Adam was in the JSA for a while until he got sick of them not trusting him, so he split off into his own group.

Spiderman has been an Avenger or reserve-Avenger multiple times over the years you casual.

Its more like instead of fucking with people over the course of a whole issue she just uses her powers to do incredibly evil and twisted stuff to them right away simply because its convenient to her, and teaches her disciples towards the same sort of fucked up behavior.

And people wonder why anyone would hate and fear mutants, christ.

Yeah, a hulk villain, which is kind of hilarious
.
Wasn't he originally meant to just be a guy with claws built into his gloves?
Well, he was also meant to be a literal wolverine that was mutated into a man at one point in his design concept.

I guess he's okay then, but what about that Obama guy?

>Wasn't he originally meant to just be a guy with claws built into his gloves?
Yes

The ideas for his healing factor and the adamantium skeleton don't get used for a while in Claremont's Uncanny

He was essentially an editorial mandate to be on the team by his cocreator Len Wein

>teaches her disciples towards the same sort of fucked up behavior.

And she was still the best headmaster the Xavier school ever had

He was also supposed to be killed instead of Thunderbird or what ever the Native American mutants name was.

Oh yeah, kill the redskin instead of the canuck, thats just great

Imagine an alternate timeline where Thunderbird became the most popular mutant instead of Wolverine.

>Frank Miller's Thunderbird
>Thunderbird and the X-Men
>Old Man Proudstar

Honestly, I'd say the opposite. Other than Bendis and Byrne's uses of her, both of which have been retconned to be the result of forces outside her control, she never really became a villain.

Quicksilver on the other hand has had multiple stints at going back to villainy. I mean shit, Quicksilver helped start a war between the Inhumans and the United States, got a bunch of mutants killed in the process, and then blamed it all on a skrull.

The Skrulls dindu nuffin.

But, but MUH FBI MOST WANTED

On purpose? Or was that when he had a mental breakdown after being the Attilan black sheep for a while and having his wife Crystal cheat on him?

And did he blame it on Skrulls and lie, or was it retconned into being a Skrull?

It was after House of M and he became desperate for a way to return mutant powers, so he stole the inhumans' terrigen crystals and started having depowered mutants go through terrigenesis to return their powers. Turns out, that shit was lethal and killed the mutants who took it by super-charging their powers to the point of death. It gave Quicksilver time powers though which he kept until getting his speed powers back. The fact that the terrigen worked completely differently for Pietro and the rest of the depowered mutants is one of the few unexplained plot holes that gets fixed by the recent reveal that he wasn't actually a mutant to begin with.

And yeah, he lied about it. He didn't want the inhumans pissed at him so he said it was a skrull replacement of his. The "Secret Invasion" excuse. Years later, he held a press conference where he came clean though but at the time, he was just being a little shit.

pied piper?

...

Man, I wish Juggernaut stayed with the good guys. If ever there was a villain who I could buy getting tired of being jerked around... it'd be Shocker or Spiral, but Juggs is a close third.