Multicultural borderless world - Utopia or Dystopia?

What do you guys think about open borders?

For the second time in my life, today I had someone tell me that they don't believe in borders. The first being a Frenchman, the second being an American lady.

My immediate instinct is that it would be the end of independent cultures. That the most prolific breeding cultures, religions and in time genetic groups would dominate and the less prolific cultures would essentially be conquered and bred out.

I look to what happened to the NZ Maori, the Australian Aborigine and the Tibetans, and I see that their cultures have all been worn down and replaced with the more dominant cultures. Granted there was also physical conflict that greatly helped to contribute to this erosion.

I see that NZ would become ridden with Chinese and Indonesian people, travelling here to experience our nature and good standard of living. But I see this new surplus of people destroying both of these as well as eroding our cultural identity and our value systems.

I see Europe would be flooded with economic migrants, many of them not only culturally different but also carrying the word of Islam.

This scares me. Is it reasonable for me to be afraid of this? Why? Why not?

Is this what is at the heart of globalization? I understand potential benefits it could offer in cutting red tape, increased efficiency, more trade, and a more streamlined decision making process, but is that worth the cost that I perceive we will pay?

1/2 or three.

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How on earth could a country like Norway maintain their living standards if they had to support a surplus population that doesn't have the skills to contribute? Surely automation will make this a more and more glaring problem?

Our culture will not be diverse, it will all be the same. A mono-culture where the most prolific rule the roost. There will be no reason to visit Germany or China or New Zealand, because you will find that only the dominant cultures (prolific breeders) remain there. I look at The way Chinese value their environment, and I am terrified.

Genetic diversity in a twist of irony will be at an all time low. A mono-gene-pool if you will. No longer will there be the distinct racial groups we have today. Instead everyone will be a similar shade of tan/brown. Blue eyes will become more and more rare. Now correct me if I am retarded because my understanding of genetics is appallingly lacking.

Is this multicultural idea of a border-less world a utopia or a dystopia?

To me it sounds completely devoid of diversity, and the West will certainly take an economic hit, which will manifest in lowering their standard of living.

Now that I think about it, the greatest strength of a single governing body globally is also its greatest weakness. Having the single decision making tree will no doubt make decisions and actions more efficient, but it will also create an opportunity for the ruling class to exploit the poor and implement anti-consumer, anti-human rights and civil liberty policies with nothing really stopping them. For instance, if today France decides to significantly reduce the rights of workers and essentially reduce them to slaves, the rest of Europe will not necessarily follow suit. If this is a mistake, only France will bear the immediate consequences. Having sovereign nation states that can test different systems has the same strength as genetic variation! If one decision ends up being a disaster or major success, the impact is isolated.

I was sort of hoping to find some dissenting opinions on this one guys.

bumping with pro borderless world stuff

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Never made sense to me
>Humans are tribal
>Tend to group with others who are physically, mentally and spiritually similar

I have nothing in common with an Ethiopian. Not skin color, not life experience, not socially, not economically, not language, not environment, not really anything. Why should we be governed under the same set of laws? Why should we live next door to each other?

Same awnser as to communism. You can't shoot or legislate your way into this type of utopia, it needs to be engineered the hard way without shortcuts or failure is guaranteed.

I don't know, I was hoping that there was a rational argument behind it.

The ones that I am aware of are;

We all have a right to see the earth and it is inherently unfair and luck based that we are born in the countries we are born in.

It will be more efficient - less red tape, less governments going in different directions, and less barring free trade.

The most intelligent argument that I can see is that it will make the government vs corporation battle that is looming less of a problem. Global tax rates on monster corporations would help the world a lot I must admit.

Theres nothing to ponder, not much analysis and hard thinking is required. Multiculturalism is the death of nations, who are we if not citizens of a nation, who belong to our unique and individual cultures and societies.

There must be more to it than that.

Do any of these points hold any water?

I don't think countries like Russia and China are buying into the whole 'borderless world' thing.

In fact, I'm pretty sure a world without borders is being pushed by Western countries like usa, Germany, france, uk, etc.

In fact, I believe this to be a huge point of contention between all the aforementioned countries.

In fact, this is all no doubt why the world is hurdling head-long into WW3.

I believe in a world without borders, but we cannot live in a fantasy land where smashing cultures and groups together willy nilly will do anything more than cause a divide and conflict.
Multiculturalism leads to tribalism which leads to conflict.
I'd rather it be where everyone respected each other as men living in their own communities in a unified land. That way if there is to be one culture on Earth (which especially if we go to space there won't be) then it can occur naturally and without shilling or Jewry.

The rational argument lies in the answer to this: who stands to benefit from a global currency, a global society? Answer? Those who currently own ours.

How hard it must be to juggle hundreds of countries, ten or so big currency denominations, etc.? Why not consolidate power?

China has the numbers to conquer a significant amount of territory and expand into a real empire of cultural and genetic dominance were this a reality.

What about the natural state of man leads you to believe that could work? What historical trends, societies or events lead you to believe that's possible? Surely it would have happened in antiquity, when there were less people and nations, if it were to ever happen.

As you say, it will make the ruling classes job easier. More access to markets will certainly result in an increase of economic activity, the majority of which will end up in the pockets of the ruling class.

The people I talked to about this had the opinion that they and travelers like them would benefit from it. They took issue with the idea that where someone is born - pure luck - could determine where on mother earth they could go, and what opportunities they could access.

I can empathize with this, but what I struggle with is understanding how this can be the motive for such a monumental change with such a huge potential for collateral damage of the one thing they treasure - diversity.

Okay. But that wouldn't be a multicultural utopia/dystopia that you have in mind.

It would be a world dominated by China, who would do things a lot differently than the united states.

based off of pure demographics and geography, if we mixed up all the people in the world, the amount of third world shitskins would essentially dilute any traces of other cultures like europe and likely asia as well. The entire world would turn into a shitty underdeveloped and undercivilized africa

They have so much more people. People don't realize how quickly we would be deluded if the floodgates were opened.

Only dominated by China in the sense that their culture and genes would dominate. Their government would be non existent.

I'm guessing that would remain the case until one culture was sufficiently dominant that they could change tacks and control the global government. As I write that I realize you are right. Scary shit.

>Whoever comes up with this poetic garbage is a naive simpleton. There are many examples of human development that could lead to a boardless world and many of them could be just as bad as they would be good. Whoever comes up with a conclusive opinion that it would be good under any set of hypothetical circumstances is just a liberal bafoon.

Do you even speak Esperanto?

Is there anything more dangerous than someone who believes in their heart they have the moral high ground and that everyone else is without conscience?

IMO the problem is, as you said, the cultures which encourage breeding will eventually dominate cultures that don't breed as much.

In the modern world, it seems that the more advanced cultures are not breeding. They look at the world around them and think "shit, do I want to raise kids? They are expensive, time consuming, and also I'm not sure I can guarantee them a nice life."
Less advanced cultures just fuck and pump out babies without a second thought.

Oh I see what you're saying.

You assume this 'world' without borders is inevitably going to come about, and come about very soon.

May I ask, in your own opinion, how this will happen?

swinging 60's? Yes please.

I'm not actually going to read your post because it's way too long and probably gay, but i think automation will slowly take over and phase out more and more jobs, and if AI is ever created, governments should be run using AI (no corruption, real democracy would be achievable). For obvious reasons, a lot of powerful people would not like it, as it would decrease the size of the lower classes and I forgot where i was going with this.

>multicultural
>borderless
>world

The Middle-East? ISIS?

Most violent culture wins!

Que?

Requesting the quote about the man that fears the dictator acting out of kindness because they will have no guilty feelings barking at them.

>literally created ideals of equality, freedom of speech, right to fair trial
>doesn't want to be turned into a shitskin caliphate

this is what it looks like when you open the floodgates friend. the world is not as nice as you are. youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

I also believe that the world will eventually become one nation. However, I despise what the globalists are doing at the moment. They are so desperate to speed up the process, that they are forcing the more successful nations to accommodate the less advanced people (change yourself to accommodate your guests) as opposed to forcing those who wish to migrate to change to suit the West.

I believe they do this for the sole purpose of wanting to earn more money. They elites own all the factories, if they can merge the entire world, then rather than paying an American $15 per hour, they can pay Pajeet $1 per hour. If they replace 20,000 Americans, that's an extra $14*20000 they earn per hour. Pretty tempting.

Not so.

I'm merely entertaining the possibility of it happening tomorrow because I lack imagination on what lies ahead and how the effects might differ in a world 50 years more advanced than our own.

I don't really have a good understanding of who is driving us in this direction, or why they think it is a good idea. I mean we can meme and blame the Jews, or even generally point in the direction of the wealthy owning class etc.

But in reality my lack of knowledge means I don't know how far away we are from such a monumental shift. Hopefully a long way.

this user understands

we think its normal having 2 maybe 3 kids, sandniggers are having 4 wives with 4 or 5 kids per wife

>sandniggers are having 4 wives with 4 or 5 kids per wife
Vagina Jihad

Exactly, that's the struggle: what do 1st and 2nd world citizens have to gain? It sounds to me like my life would get much worse with a bunch of third worlders flooding my country who don't speak my language and don't value the same things that I do.

And given that, where is this notion coming from that a person born in, say, Asia has some innate right to live in any country he pleases? Privilege maybe, but there is no right to live anywhere on Earth you want.

Third Worlders' birthrates are collapsing just like the developed world's did a few decades ago. it literally has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with economics and education

You won't find disagreement from me. The dark side of egalitarianism is that it treats human beings like light bulbs - entirely interchangeable.

To which they respond - borders are a social construct, and so is your idea that we don't have the right to travel where we want!

Its sort of backwards logic but it makes a conversation about it very tricky to navigate.

Interesting user. The ai might get sick of us and replace us.

Yes it is an interesting situation in Europe. They chose this, I will see how it unfolds, there have already been a few attacks etc, but I am more interested in the longer term effects on their culture, crime stats, social stats. Especially in countries that will attempt to integrate them more extensively than the UK and France historically did. I find that it is hard to guarantee that we can use these two countries as an accurate predictor of the future in say Germany, simply because the French and UK did essentially drop their migrants in ghettos.

My personal opinion however, is that this will be bad for Europe in the long term. Islam is fucking trouble.

You should look into the foreign policy of non-western countries like Russia, china, iran, north korea, etc, etc. Watch interviews and speeches by putin and assad and read other quotes from various politicians from middle eastern and eastern European countries.

You will start to get a picture of how this globalist bullshit will never work without the world plunging into massive war and unrest.

I mean look around you. It's already happening.

I'm guessing religion is a factor

Right. Which, of course, is not reality.

>third worlders' birth rates are collapsing
where?

>Sick of us

AI would just do as programmed within certain constraints. Their prime drives would be to ensure humans are taken care of.

they would not be programmed to feel disgust.

Open Borders:
>civilized world getting rushed with unskilled illiterate peasant hordes. distopia

>it's buffoon user
And it's going to happen, like it or not. I personally believe the cons outweigh the pros by a wide margin right now, but technology is always the root of change. It will most likely be the catalyst of transforming the world from hosting many countries, to a single nation/federation. It has already happened many times before, I don't see why it wouldn't work in the future.

>What do you guys think about open borders?

You must be new here

Well we seem to have a nice slow circle-jerk going here. I wonder which part of the internet I should venture to the ask this question of people who look more favorably upon the idea.

I refuse to believe it is simply made out of emotion and optimism.

I think you understand my only point on thi and the impasse we have come: there is no singular, capital T Truth. There is only the duality of the universe, here nationalism vs. globalism. Both will always exist and have their place. One will wax while the other wanes. History is a river that ebbs and flows, it's only a matter of perception.

No, I've lurked for 3-4 years.

I was sort of hoping that given the environment of free speech there would be a wider variety of opinions aired. Huh. Maybe I am new.

Do you have any idea how backward most countries are?

I believe a world state is a unavoidable in the long run, but building it around people moving freely would be a bad idea.

Building one around goods and money flowing freely would be a better alternative. Rule by money has it's problems but at least it's better than rule by breeding.

Not to mention while economics can shift in and out of regions fairly swiftly it takes massive effort to do so with people. In a free migration scheme the world would have to put up with richer areas becoming massively congested, perhaps for generations before people and natural resources found a balance. People tend stick to where they are rather than move when it would be logical to do so.

Don't be discouraged. Honest, open discussion is the only thing that will set you and your opposition free, and an anonymous board will always be the best place for that.

>Multicultural borderless world
Without borders between ethnic groups you get walls around neighbourhoods.

open borders = globalism = imperialism
It's a delusional fantasy... There are always going to be factions... different people have different ideas, and want to do their own things...
Globalists claim they know best and impose THEIR singular agenda on everyone...
Not all cultures are the same. Cultures evolve to develop different strategies for success based on their own environment and available resources...
In the long run some cultures outperform others. There's nothing wrong with that... Different cultures can learn from each other and adopt best solutions AS THEY SEE FIT...
Changing circumstances always produce new challenges. There are no "one size fit all" solutions. Pluralism and diversity mean different people are heading toward different destinations following different paths...
This notion that we all need to decide, together, where we are all going, together, is just idiotic...
First it undermines the principle of freedom. Freedom to go your own way, and for a nation to go its own way.
Second, it's dangerous, because if the leadership, or the "globe" are going in the wrong direction, we are all fucked.
Third, globalism kills diversity. Diversity offers greater adaptability to varying circumstances, flexibility, and higher level of ecological specialization.
cultures MUST have some measure of independence and isolation to preserve their identity, and remain different from the rest of the globe, to be able to continue generating "something different" for global diversity. If everyone is the same, there is no diversity.
Progressive used to believe in "live and let live." What ever happened to that concept?

Yeah but as that may be, we only live to see one or two cycles of that ebb and flow if we are lucky. This is our life, and our life and way of life are built upon the historical efforts of our forefathers. Our children's lives will be determined by our actions. Surely in the face of that reality the yin and yang shit goes out the window.

In what regard?

Well, tell them that rights are a social construct. Because they fucking are user.

Here's South Africa post-apartheid.
youtube.com/watch?v=KI3eGU_wmHg

If you don't defend your national borders you will eventually have to defend your house with barbed wire.

Pick one. Economic, social, political etc.

You don't need borders to have borders you know...

Say muslims came into a region populated by white supremacist who hate muslims. How long would they stay... or live for that matter...

Borders are just a formality.

>In what regard?
1. Cousin marriage.
2. Defecating on streets.
3. Low iqs.
4. Magical thinking circa 7th century Arabia.
5. Subsistence farming.

Anyone who believes in open borders, ironically, usually live in gated communities or far from different people, cushioned from their alien cultures.

why do people come to this board to make threads asking questions about the world's biggest issues?

This place is for shitposting about Trump and happenings.

Yeah, user to other users at least. I still use chrome like a retard so I guess I can't worry about being spied upon. I wonder if they have a digital profile of everyone on the internet. I know they collect all keystrokes, now imagine if they worked with a few of the other big online networks. They would have fucking everything, how your opinions shifted as you matured, what porn you wanked to, all of your dirty laundry. Fuck.

I'd like the combo if its not too much trouble. I'd like to think I'm fairly up to date with the corruption within the US system, tell me about Canada? I know you have weedman but is he really worse than the guy before who wanted to get rid of the mandatory census? Keep in mind I know fucking nothing about Canada.

Okay. I suspect the next reply is

>'that doesn't mean its bad, we should be allowed to travel! why do you think you deserve to live in the paradise of NZ just because you were born here? literally check your privilege'

and that sends me on fucking tilt user.

>western values
Western values are liberal

This. We are already seeing the first hints of the world's economy slowly leaning towards a globalized market. Most businesses have access to participating on international levels of selling, promoting, and contracting. I can make money off selling a product to people in China, the United States, or Finland while hosting my business from a country with a third world economy like Guatemala.

Banks are also expanding towards expanding internationally, and are already planning on dominating spaces where they normally couldn't move through years before. I can get in contact with venture capitalists on the other side of the world to invest in my product. I can ask a graphic designer from the Philippines to make a logo for me, and credit the transaction through PayPal.

And as of right now, anonymous people from across the world are arguing on a board on the internet about the impending takeover of globalization. We really are living on a time of change; and while we are culturally, politically, and socially not ready to fully to take the next step, the world's economy is just waiting for all the bureaucratic obstacles of borders and regulations to fade away.

Multicutural debate going for years in France.

We end up with two shootings and one decapitated priest.

Some takeaways:
- Some culture don't want to mix. They get there and grow if can
- Culture is important to get people together, if you are "multicultural" you're not fully into a culture. It's just superficial. Just check with anyone "multicultural" they re thing they don't do, don't adhere to such as religion. Being in 1 culture it's a lot of thing in common. People are closer and feel closer. And the thing is they don't need to fill a spiritual hole with consumption as they do when they are more isolated. Multiculturalism is good because people are such social bums that they throw everything in concert, cafes, social opium, consumption, holidays etc. Multiculturalism may be a tool of politicians to break bonds, isolate people, extinct a common spirit that could magnify in radical new political solutions, and push people to the market
- Multiculturalism is itself a culture. It's the global culture of people who pick here and there. It's the culture of the one without a real culture. There common ground are the international songs, clips, artists, shows which btw are mostly americans. Multiculturalism is somewhat the newage of culture.

pretty much everwhere except mali and afghanistan

look at birthrate maps now and compare them to the 70's

There's a way to create a borderless world, OP. You won't like it though, pic related.

Fuck all that, for all I know you're both behind a proxy and behind me with handcuffs ready to arrest me. I don't care. What really matters is that I feel more free to discuss my opinions here than with just about any person I actually know. Because that can't be taken from me, I can only be taken from it.

>I still use chrome like a retard so I guess I can't worry about being spied upon.
I hope this is a joke.

Stop being spineless. Yes, you deserve to live where you were born, are you kidding? What's their reasoning for migration being ok? Literally nothing?

I must say that this is some if the most calm and rational posting I've seen here since election season started.

Globalization is a mixed bag, and both sides have good points and outlandishly dumb points.

Things like "but muh white purity" are fucking dumb. That doesnt just go for white, but all skin color. Anyone who is concerned with such matter in the day we live in is an idiot, plain and simple. However, the matter of just throwing a bunch of ethnicities into a room together and telling them to play nice is idiotic too.

It's something that will inevitably happen. With growing populations, faster transportation and easily accessible information and communication, it really is only a matter of time. We just need to take it slow and steady though. Too many far lefties seem to think we can all just play nice, when we really arent anywhere near that point yet. Too many far rights... well... just look at the moronic Trump Wall.

There's a much bigger picture to be looking at than whats going on over the other side of the fence, if you ask me.

Yeah. The honesty is refreshing, when you give people a reputation to defend, or internet points for having a popular opinion, or the fear of banishment it really sets things back.

I'm installing firefox as we speak.

Its a period of transition and lawlessness. There is no global system to regulate globalised business, and only the upper class of society can take part in it. Its like the wild west except only a few people have guns. Or the robber baron era of american industrialisation.

I won't get anywhere by calling them retards, that is the problem. Their reasoning for migration being okay is that no one person owns the earth, we are all born on it and we have to share it bla bla bla

They aren't wrong in the sense that it is inherently unfair to be born in a poor part of china or africa and it makes sense to want to get out of those hellholes.

The hard part is getting them to take into account the consequences of such free travel - in particular the consequences upon our way of life.

I hear you mr leaf, but I must ask, why is this the case?

>Things like "but muh white purity" are fucking dumb. That doesnt just go for white, but all skin color. Anyone who is concerned with such matter in the day we live in is an idiot, plain and simple.

I guess the traits associated with the different groups won't go extinct as we enter the age of genetic science. I don't consider myself to be far right or far left, but is it really debatable that certain dominant genes will dominate with their sets of strengths and weaknesses and that less dominant traits will disappear naturally?

Literally everyone had an ancestor who was a migrant at some point.
Migration is a natural social activity. The problem of course is displacement of cultures and people. In this way it is similar to conquest if done on a large scale.
Migration should be allowed, but certainly not at the cost of stability. It should also be very selective.

I agree that we're on a period of transition, and actually hope regulation on globalized economy doesn't happen any time soon so we can take advantage of pioneering something. Making business over the internet is like taking the highway, the path is straight, clear of obstacles, and you can go as fast and far as you decide to go.

On the other hand, I think anyone can participate on globalized business. As long as you have an internet connection, you're all set. The people who come out on top can be from any social class, all you need is effort and research. I, for example, come from a middle class setting, and managed to learn english, make a startup, and start making money. All over the internet.

We already have access to the tools, it's what we make of them that marks the difference. Right now, I firmly believe that I'm on the same grounds opportunity wise as another businessman starting on a higher class and on a first world country.

>anyone
Well anyone here.
There are plenty of people who dont have good internet and so on. They are probably the majority of people in the world

Yeah, I was checking some stats and I think you are right, only about 30% of the world uses the internet, and the usage on third world countries is usually lingering between 20-30% and in Africa well below 5% So yeah, I retract my statement

Anyhow, once there's a homogeneous access to world wide communications, we should be able to balance the access to equal opportunities. Sadly, by the time that happens, everything will probably be regulated, or worse: banned altogether.

Going to sleep Sup Forums glad to see we actually had a relatively calm discussion for once

Of course not, that gives them ancient ass itchiness
Gross

I've seen Planet Of The Apes, i don't need to experience it on my own.

Mother Nature deplores such things it will be sharply corrected at a most inopportune time. Somewhat ironic that nature loves both homogeneity and diversity at the same time.

does your home have a front door with a lock? why op? wouldn't you like to not have a front door? or not have a lock on your front door? why have any doors on your house at all OP? also consider why do you want a fence around your home at all? why not just not have walls for your house either while your at it and just have a over head canopy instead and just have anyone who wants to come inside for a true open society!

>thats not the same thing user

close enough to the same thing