Should marvel reboot? Sales are dropping...

Should marvel reboot? Sales are dropping, tons of heroes with the same names and powers are running around and overall quality is awful. Will reboot save the marvel universe?

Other urls found in this thread:

comicsbeat.com/marvel-layoffs-the-cheapskate-is-coming-from-inside-the-house-of-ideas/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I don't think a reboot would help anything. If we're that worried about characters with multiple names running around we could just have a Crisis style story where they just kill a lot of heroes and they stay dead.

But Secret War was already their chance to do that. And no matter how you reboot the universe you're still going to have the same writers with questionable writing quality.

this.

a clean state in continuity not that they even use it now isn't going to fix the quality of writing and art at Marvel

they're already printing awful teen Spider-Man and X-Men books

It would be better done as a Rebirth style relaunch with a lot of retcons and getting new talent to write the books rather than Bendis' and Slott's monopolies.

Reed and Sue coming back from recreating the Multiverse to reform the FF would be the perfect starting point for a 'back to what was good' event.

Step one

stop pushing Captain Marvel, nobody gives a shit about her.

The current MU isn't fucked, it's just not being used to it's full potential. Secret Wars should've been the event they could point to so they could ignore dumb continuity and just say "lol rebuilt universe".
But instead, you have Uncle Fester spearheading the current direction of the universe, with every other writer playing damage control to his stupid decisions. All Marvel really needs to do is to get a competent EiC and get Bendis off all the popular books, but that'll never happen so we'll just have to suffer for another 5 years of hero vs hero events before Slott, Bendis, and Waid all simultaneously die of a heart attack.

>same writers with questionable writing quality
this
not to mention editors, Quesada, old man Ike, Disney should just shut that shit down and reprint old stuff if they really wanna keep selling comics

Reboot? No.

Fire their shit writers and get new ones? Yes.

Fire their lazy ass editors and get new ones? Yes.

I think they should do another Heroes Reborn except this time the classic heroes get shunted off to a parallel universe while the legacy heroes have to fend for themselves in 616.

Reboot? No.

Fire their writers.

Like, practically all of them - clean house.

They're so damn big on diversity, let's get some actual talent in there.

Reboot the writers and editors. Nearly all of them are completely worthless now.

THIS

The problem with the original Heroes Reborn wasn't the idea it was the fact that they gave the books to folks like Liefeld.

No. I do think Marvel needs of a regime change, though. The people in charge have become complacent and it's been the same group of people more or less since I started reading cape comics 15 years ago.

In this day and age no one stays dead in comics. Everything is retconned, rebooted, and undone.

Mega events for short term, status quo for long term.

A reboot wouldn't help since it wouldn't change the core problem: the writers. Most if not all of the current stories and characters could easily be improved with the right talent behind the scenes but as it is now nothing is going to change reboot or no.

No, only better editors and writers can save Marvel, none of that cosmetic shit.

Stop making this fucking thread already

It would help if it meant getting rid of certain writers, changing company policies and simplifying the continuity to erase shit like OMD.

No. That would make it even worse.

the only acceptable split is X-Men Earth with as much of the current continuity in tact as possible, something happens again all the heroes are gone and 616 is left with the X-Men which allows them to still be feared and hated.

The other earth can be MCUish/Classic Marvel Earth with everyone else just starting out, tweek everything as needed

the legacy characters are the ones who get the shaft in this scenario

People will probably say this idea sucks but; what if they let a writer have their own story and creative control for a character for a couple years. They write their own version of that character, with a beginning, middle, and end. It is in its own separate continuity.

Then, another writer gets to take over for that character and tell their own story.

The problem with Marvel is a lack of creative and editorial talent.

The problems with new "Thunderbolts" say, don't have much to do with the state of the Marvel Universe, they have to do with things like the completely inappropriate art style, which is the fault of the editors for choosing it.

If they could get someone more exciting than Mark Waid to write the Avengers titles you can bet they'd be doing it (I like Waid, but he's not someone you put on your flagship team books if you want a massive hit).

So they need to hire more and better editors and pay more for better creative talent. I think Marvel's cheapness has gone past the point where it's having a bad effect on the quality of the work.

Didn't Marvel gut their editorial staff in 2014? Because that would explain a lot of problems, and not just on the front of writing and art front (which are always at least a little subjective), but also basic stuff such as assigning the speech bubbles to the right characters or catching spelling errors.

I also get a feeling that a lot of the younger writers are lacking proper editorial guidance so a lot of them flounder. And on the flipside, I think the more senior writers and editors are burned out either because of having too much shit on their plate or because of the tiring cycle of events/crossovers/shocking twists/relaunches.

Fuck you. I'm fan of her since the eighties.

Literally why?

Reboots are never a good idea with these comics. Please stop spouting this nonsense. When you don't like the stories being told you just should look for good writers with a clear direction and that's it.

They just need a Marvel style Rebirth. A bunch of A-List books, a few minority stuff, and some big controversal threat to lure in readers.

And lots of Fan Pandering.

>Sales are dropping

Marvel's sales have been pretty solid this last couple of years compared to the last 15 years or so as a whole. They're not going up - nobody's are - but they're not going down either.

November 2016 for example they sold $18,998,112 worth through Diamond (about 3,018,690 units) compared to 3,954,950 units and $18,079,200 in November 2015; they actually made about $500,000 more even with inflation taken into account in 2016, and only had the expenditure of printing 75% of the books. Like it or not, that's solid business.

I get that you're angry that DC keep fucking up - we all are. There's really no excuse for them to be doing so badly, but the fact is, they're just not offering what comic readers want. All they really have is Batman, and to be fair, Batman's solo is pretty much propping up DC Comics right now, sales-wise. Without even looking at the figures I'd guess his trade sales are high too - and that's a real bonus for DC, because they've really screwed the pooch on Rebirth.

Put it another way - the market in November 2016 was 6% smaller than the previous November in units and 22% larger in dollars; Marvel made more money printing fewer books and had by far the larger *overall* unit share. Their trades are selling better - well, guess what they're being bought for. It's about six days off.

DC? Shifting a lot of floppies but not so Marvel would be worried. Even isolating the top 300 titles, Marvel is actually 10% ahead of DC in dollar share, and every DC title that wasn't Batman (which had 3 spots in the top 10) or Batman-centric got caned by the Walking Dead, again. When you get right into the meat of it, DC had just one non-Batman-centric title in the top 20 (Flash, double shipping) - even though it had half the spots (and another Batman title with IDW). That's awful. They are fucked if Batman stops selling so hard, and next month - no Batman $5 annual to prop up the dollar share either.

tl;dr no not really, DC is kill

...

They lose, not gain, people with each reboot. Bad idea.

Outsource the MU to an indie publisher with good editors, writers, and artists. Dark Horse or Valiant, for instance.

>dats a paddlin'
They've got an awful lot riding on the next issue or two of KingBats, too. I'm sure I'm not the only one ready to drop it if he doesn't really knock it out of the park after how mediocre the whole run's been so far.

No. The problems are structural to the company, not to the continuity (as much as it is). If The Ultimate universe showed anything, it's not old stories holding writers back. If anything, they're holding them back from being even dumber.

>Didn't Marvel gut their editorial staff in 2014?
A bit further back than that, actually:
comicsbeat.com/marvel-layoffs-the-cheapskate-is-coming-from-inside-the-house-of-ideas/

They should do another Ultimates thing

Another continuity that acts as a test bed instead of messing around with the original

>mcu makes stack of cash
>is 100% straight white dudes
>still beloved by tumblr
>because it has solid stories and makes an effort to tell them well

how did this not show marvel how to run their fucking company.

>mcu
Stopped reading there.

Reboot doesn't work

DC had to backpedal and be like "oh it was just a ruse and now we're back to normal"

Marvel uses more of a compromise and just starts a new series every few months and hypes up the variant covers. It works for a month or two, then they drop the low sellers and start the process again

The MCU has better writing than marvel comics. That's not really up for debate at this point.

>The MCU has better writing than marvel comics.

uninspired recycled plotline of "stop the white villain from using the powerful thing and killing everyone"

get fucked idiot, that's not better writing

>LE EBIN DANCE OFF X-DDDD
>DUDE WONG LIKE ADELE LMAO
Yeah, first class literature here.

Reboots are what people are bitching about. They need to show a commitment to consistent titles telling ongoing stories with some sort of vision behind them

I thought all those monthly #1's were reboots?

There are at least 20 less deserved pushes that need nixed.

>capeshit is srs bidness
You're the reason Joker's a Juggalo, you mongoloid!

Wait rebirth got back to normal? What do you mean? I was about to start reading the new stuff. Is it good or not?

That would actually explain a lot.

I wonder how often Marvel gets new people applying for writing positions and such. I just read some of the stuff, I pay no real attention to stuff behind the scenes.

But if you were a writer with some actual talent why would you go to Marvel or DC to play with their toys and use your ideas there when you could go to Image, Dark Horse, or where ever, can't remember which company does this, where you can make your own toys, use all the ideas you have, and at the end you have full ownership of it all?

Perhaps the main reason the likes of Bendis, Quesadilla, etc have not been replaced is there is simply no new talent willing to fill the void they would leave. But like I said, I don't really know what goes on behind the scenes.

He means saleswise they're back to normal even though he's equating six months of Rebirth with six months of New 52 even though sales on a #6 would be different from a sales of a #10.

>fuck quality, I want fun!
Hyped for Sausage Party 2?

>if you were a writer with some actual talent why would you go to Marvel or DC to play with their toys and use your ideas there

>But if you were a writer with some actual talent why would you go to Marvel or DC to play with their toys and use your ideas there when you could go to Image, Dark Horse, or where ever, can't remember which company does this, where you can make your own toys, use all the ideas you have, and at the end you have full ownership of it all?

Lot of reasons. Companies may provide health insurance or other benefits. Or you may need to grow your fanbase. Not everyone can be Robert Kirkman, a lot of non-Marvel, non-DC titles have really low orders.

>Yeah, first class literature here.
Are you implying that capeshit is first-class literature?

Comic books aren't manga dude. Get over it.Shared Universe is a major part of the appeal.

The comics will always be better. Deal with it, casual.

I never said otherwise
But implying that capeshit is first class literature makes you a complete twat.

They're stories made to entertain children, teens and manchildren.
Get over yourself.

>cape comics are shit
>cape movies are le kino

Whatever.

Just an idea.

It would be a nice change of pace but the companies wouldn't go for it.

>with a lot of retcons
I think they could get away with just telling good stories and ignoring whatever bullshit has been going on the last few years.

At this point in time, if you wanted to build a name and make money you'd probably try your hand at making a webcomic instead.

People like free things which gets you an easier fanbase and Patreon can be decent money. If you're careful and smart you can drop a kickstarter or something once in a while for a print version of your books, which is just extra cash on top.

I hope this is bait. If not become an hero pls.

King, Ellis, and Remender are good.

The worst ones would probably be the only ones they'd keep, like Bendis, Slott, that shit heal who writes/draw squirell "girl"

Also the editors do fuck all but collect a paycheck. Might do some good to have some turbo autists in that area.

>DANCE OFF
this is literally the only thing I see used to bash the gaurdians besides "NOT MUH QUILL"


Get fucked retard.

They just DID a soft-reboot. The problem is they've got shit writers on so many books, and the "anger drives sales" approach has diminishing returns.

There's, literally, maybe 4-5 writers in comic books who can find any work in any medium anywhere outside of comic books. These are the -worst- writers in the world, the most pathetic losers who literally cannot get anything printed anywhere else in the world.

if they spent half the time on this instead of variant covers...

Diversity is not the problem, DC is actually quite good on that aspect and it doesn't feel as forced. The problem is the shit writers and the disney execs that want a more casual demographic that involves more black people and they think pushing badly written characters is a good idea for that.

WEW fucking lad you people

Maybe

I'm sorry, what did you say? I couldn't hear you over Simon Baz and his handgun.

that was depressing to read. Does Ike live solely thru hate or something?

Dr Light, Jessica Cruz, Damian is biracial but DC doesn't make it a big deal, Ryan Choi is coming back, Cyborg hasn't been fucked over since the New 52 started etc etc.

I am a marvel fanboy but even I recognize when DC does diversity better by not forcing shit down our throats. Get fucked.

>DC is SO not racist that they NEVER make any kind of big deal about racial identity being important to anyone in their stories!
>They're not racist like the people who admit other experiences exist and validate that notion by focusing on that fact!

Superman: Most important superhero in DC comics in universe and IRL. - WHITE MALE
Batman: Most edgelord-cool icon of plot-armored prep-time win EVER. - WHITE MALE
Hal Jordan
Barry Allen
Fucking Oliver Queen

Who's the icon of what the idealized woman is? The White Female.

Don't get me wrong, YOU HAVE A POINT, there have been all those token black characters in supporting roles ...
AND IT'S DONE "THE RIGHT WAY"
... they keep quiet and subordinate and never are placed too prominently for too long to upset "people".

that's a lot of bait there

that's just reflecting reality

Do the opposite
We could call the parallel universe... "ultimate Marvel" or something like that

I don't think he's talking about Monica, man

> ... they keep quiet and subordinate and never are placed too prominently for too long to upset "people".
Jessica, Cyborg, Jaime, Midnighter, Damian, and Kenean are all their own book.

Okay, I'm just going to remind you that NOBODY thinks Batman's bastard child is interracial.
(no matter how violent and immoral DC tries to portray him as)
That's not the identity DC has been selling with him.
Just ask the general user population of the next Batman general thread Sup Forums puts up.
The answer will come back as "white".
As for the rest of those names: I recognize two.
You're not exactly pointing at members of the Trinity.
But hey, like your fellow DC fan said to condescend; " that's just reflecting reality"

And what exactly did you want? For them to blackface their top characters? Genderbend them?

There were other diversity characters created later. Too bad they didn't become as iconic, but they're there. Besides, a ton of DC characters famous these days are aliens which don't even fit human ethnicities. Fans aren't looking for representation as much as, you know, characters they like, no matter the race or sex.

>You're not exactly pointing at members of the Trinity.
Because the Trinity is white retard.
>OMG IF YOU DONT MAKE SUPES BLACK IT DOESNT COUNT
Fuck out of here

>Okay, I'm just going to remind you that NOBODY thinks Batman's bastard child is interracial.
It doesn't matter what they think, he he is interaccial
>(no matter how violent and immoral DC tries to portray him as)
Oh, okay you haven't read anything about Damian in the last 3 years.
>Just ask the general user population of the next Batman general thread Sup Forums puts up.
The answer will come back as "white".
So people are stupid that doesn't change anything.
>You're not exactly pointing at members of the Trinity.
That doesn't mean the other heroes don't exsist.

You do understand that DC is still portraying white males as inherently superior to the racial minorities they've included in their stories as (reluctant) concessions to "political correctness".
You don't see what's racist about that?

Remender's gone, King went to DC, and is Ellis even doing anything nowadays?

Does the fact that Supes isn't actually white, but an alien from another planet mean nothing to you?
Or do you only care about appearances?

I seem to recall that the big-names never-ever-ever release work continuously.
It's all fits and starts with them.

>the only acceptable split is X-Men Earth
When will this meme die

Ellis is overseeing the Wildstorm imprint at DC.

People think that just because the X-Men really ought to be separate, it is in any way actually possible to split them off. It can't be done; they're too woven in to the fabric of the MU for decades. It would be easier to yank out Spider-Man.

"Appearances" is the problem.
Because it appears that DC has a higher echelon of superheroes and there's a certain skin color that is required to rank that high.
You know, if you're actually paying attention to appearances.

But hey, if you turn a blind eye to racial inequities and DC's messaging by ficticious example about who's superior to who, these racism issues must all seem superficial to the Kryptonians among us looking down through their glass ceilings.

It's about making the in-universe bigotry against mutants like the X-Men seem more reasonable.
Certain people can't tolerate any portrayal of bigotry that isn't perfectly reasonable and sold as a justifiable worldview.
If the X-Men are vilified for their differences, but not Spider-Man or Captain America, then there's an obvious hypocrisy to it.
Certain people think that in real life there's no hypocrisy to bigotry.
So they're calling for the forced change of the fiction so that their pro-bigotry worldview is never challenged.

never

Soooo what, you wanted a new black dude to come out of fucking nowhere and one-up them to show they're not inferior? Feel free to go read Steel or Cyborg books or whatever, if it makes you happier.

They're the originals, as far as most readers are concerned. They'll always be known as superior to fool's gold versions that show up later. Maybe with some exceptions, like Flash fans who prefer Wally West, or Tim Drake fans who don't like Dick so much.

You're right, DC just suddenly replacing Superman with ... let's say ... an Asian Superman ... or a W-W-Woman ... would be obvious half-assed unserious token effort cynical pretend-pandering.
As would picking a long-ignored background team-member from the kid's table team and retcon-aging him up to be the background team-member of your all-white all-star A-team book.

DC doesn't do anything like THAT.
NO, that's what Marvel's being accused of...

That's exactly the thing.

"uninspired recycled plotline of "stop the white villain from using the powerful thing and killing everyone"" is STILL BETETR WRITING THAN WHAT WE ARE GETTING IN THE COMCIS NOW?

It just shows how bad things have gotten when subpar movie writers outclassed your own creations with the most run-of-the-mill scripts!

This.

I will accept another generic MCU plot over Civil War II, Squirrel Girl and the Inhuman stuff any day

>tons of heroes with the same names and powers are running around

the thing people loved most about Rebirth was multiple Flashes

a reboot could help IF they had good editors and good world builders and were able to properly juggle it all.

but I agree, all the things that should be put into a reboot would be a waste (even if they did them, I suspect they would not) given they'd pretty much go back to where they were in 2015.

Marvel fucked up.....they can't quick fix it,

Thats exactly the problem marvel have now. The same writers doing the same shit.

have their writers fight to survive and cull the weak. Each survivor gets one character or cast related to that character to work on.

Superman is still here for action comics and his title series and was never replaced.

The wally west thing was BS though. So glad they brought the original back.