This movie is too smart for me?

Batman: "If there's a one percent chance you are evil we must take it as an absolutely certainty."

Superman: "Gotham's civil liberties are being trampled on, that city lives in fear of you."

Both: "Wait-MARTHA?!?!?!"

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>Spends over 2 years prepping for Superman
>has the chance to learn everything about him
>Oh, Luthor Jr figured out how to kill him
>learned nothing about superman in the two years of prep time
>world's greatest detective

How many times have to be said that Batman thought he knew Superman well because he projected his own failings and wrongdoings unto Superman?

He was narrow-minded and misguided.

> if they're is even 1% chance
> see an alternate future caused by the death of one person, a person who constantly finds herself in danger
> much larger then 1%
> still keeps him alive, despite the evidence

BRAVOOOOOO

Point is, in 2 years, he learned NOTHING, not even how to kill him, he had to wait for Lex to come up with that.

the only thing to learn was of the kryptonite, which he did. which is why at the start of the film he's trying to find the kryptonite.

Only after it was discovered by Lex that it was lethal to K dna, at this point Lois and Lex are far better detective than Bruce, who just sits around and waits for someone to do his work for him.

Sorry Bruce couldn't fucking spend 2 years hanging out by the crashed world engine looking for strange xenominerals.

And in what world is Lex ever not smarter than Batman?

I still don't really get the animosity between Batman and Superman. Was it an ideological disagreement or just "ALIENS BAD"?

Hell, when the fight actually went down Superman was just trying to talk to him. Not much of a showdown really.

you just don't get it op, it's meant to be retarded

No, but you'd think that Batman, as a detective would have done more than just wait for a weapon to fall into his lap, year one Kryptonite isn't avalable, did Bruce just say "Well, can't find a way to hurt him physically, guess I better give up."?

Also, Lex is always smarter than Bruce, but Bruce almost always has better detective skills than almost everyone else in the universe. Did you think that just because Lex is smart he'd be able to track down someone elusive without hiring a detective to look for said person?

This entire reboot would have been done better as an Injustice storyline. That's clearly what Snyder wanted to do.

Although, really, it seems like the main issue is that Snyder wrote up this big overarching multi-film concept and ended up only being able to make one movie at a time. Like if the entire MCU was planned out from the get-go and then studio execs said "by the way, you only get more movies if this first one does well".

Bruce knew about Zod's threat, right? It was advertised everywhere on Earth.

You can blame Snyderman for a lot of things but "bringing the war to us" isn't one.

But muh Martha

Surely not, I can blame Snyder for having Bruce just sit on his hands for two years waiting for Lex to figure out a way to kill Superman after it was reviled to by Zod that Kal has been hiding on earth and living amount humans for years. What kinds of people did he live with? What was his false home life like? Does he have people he cares about that can be used as leverage against him? These are all questions that Bruce should have asked while waiting for a weapon that could cause physical harm to Supes. Instead we have to assume that two years worth of prep time was tossed out the window in lue for Lex smuggling Kryptonite unto Metropolis and found out its lethal to Kal.

If this blows up in Warner Bros' face next year I wonder what they're going to do. It's too late to start over.

>Batman is more yolked than Superman

If this was actually leading up to Injustice, I probably would consider this a masterpiece but I'm supposed to be seeing this as our actual heroes so meh

It might still if Justice League bombs

Someone's had too much egg nog

I don't understand this line of thinking. Superman gives his life at the end to save the planet and Batman even says that men are good at the end and wants to do better because of Superman's sacrifice. The execution of these movies were shit, but suddenly creating an injustice world would be even more nonsensical

Kek, that could actually work.

Reveal that the Snyderverse was the Injustice universe all along, then have a portal open up and the REAL Justice League comes through to save the day.

Yes. Comicbook nerds are by and large stupid and childish. Unable to cope with nuance, depth or complexity in storytelling. It's why you read comics instead of real literature. And why you prefer the Marvel garbage over actual good flms.

Stay mad DCuck
>MUH MARTHA

No, its to smart for itself.

The message behind "MARTHA" is actually a fairly good one: its the moment where Batman realises that Superman, despite being an alien, has incredibly human feelings and his last act before dying is to beg for his mothers life, something that "evil alien murderer" would not do. It snaps Batman out of the simmering rage that has been driving him since the battle of Metropolis and for the first time he thinks clearly again.

Trouble is, while that's pretty smart, its done in the most atrociously hamfisted manner.

>It snaps Batman out of the simmering rage that has been driving him since the battle of Metropolis and for the first time he thinks clearly again.
And why is he simmering with rage again?
The Batman movie mythos so far has had Batman causing blatant property destruction plenty of times.
We've had Gotham on the verge of annihilation multiple times from Waynecorp inventions stolen by guys targeting Gotham because Batman burnt their headquarters to the ground first.

Fuck, in BvS, Batman is flying around in his Superjet chaingunning the fuck out of everything with little discretion. And this is when he's fighting normal human beings, not a ship full of advanced superhumans who have publicly threatened to lay waste to the entire planet, and in fact are in the process of doing just that.

Why does Batman get to cut loose on some mooks transporting some rocks, but Superman can't cut loose on superaliens flattening an entire city?

Dude, did you miss the fact that he couldn't even find that the white portuguese was a ship's name?

That shit was amateur tier.

He was building a super suit and created that sonic blaster shit

ey it's like people become prone to irrationality when they're trapped by obsession

Yeah, but Batman has been obsessed with many things and still managed to stay level-headed.

Why would this be any different?

Not obssessive enough to notice that the Clark right in front of him looks exactly like Superman, and might be something worth to investigate.

>Superman can't cut loose on superaliens flattening an entire city?

He did, on just one alien but they still fucked up the city.

Having two dubstep machines was retarded since nobody was around to see his big hero moment in the ocean. Instead hundreds of people were dying every second on the other side of the world.

But if there was only one machine to stop, Metropolis would be even more destroyed since everyone would be fighting there at the same time. Hoo boy.

i don't know what was wb thinking to put the death of superman into this movie? it makes as much sense as having the blackest night movie but having a flashpoint side story

obviously too smart for us, calling from the basement

I really can't take DC fanboys seriously if they're focusing more on the faux symbolism rather than the actual film.

They're in the same league to me as "gamers" who prefer to play walking simulators like "Gone Home" or "Dear Esther"

>its an "OP pretends to have just read/watched/noticed something that has been discussed 1000x already to just start shit on the internet" post

leave

Batman is never actually confronting Superman with the possibility that Superman will become a threat or that he’s too powerful to be trusted. Instead, Batman is talking about his parents and about how he’s struggled to make sense of the world. Batman’s primary issue is his psychological feeling of powerlessness and his inability to handle his failures as both Bruce and Batman.

Bruce still having nightmares about his parents’ death, and now here he is trying to do the only thing that he thinks will matter, trying to redeem himself and his parents through vengeance, which of course is a path toward doom. Bruce is mourning his parents’ death, sees picture of Archangel Michael with spear. And the man-bat breaking out of the bloody tomb was the warning that if Batman spills blood with the spear (that is, he kills Superman), that he will actually be unleashing a demon (that is, himself, for having gone completely over the edge and becoming a murderer).

Chris Terrio himself, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, said that he was digging in to revenge tragedy structure for his work on BvS. A typical revenge tragedy takes the character all the way to the moment where they are going to carry out the vengeance, and of course if they do they are actually harming themself, not just the person they’re targeting. It’s really their own soul that is on the line. And in the revenge tragedy structure, that all leads up to the moment called Anagnorisis — the recognition or moment of clarity when the main character gains the understanding that was missing.

Batman is forcing the world to make sense, and so at some level Batman himself is acknowledging that he has a skewed perspective and that he imposes his interpretations on reality rather than taking reality as it is, perhaps because reality is too painful or maybe he just thinks it’s non-sensical in general

>This entire reboot would have been done better as an Injustice storyline. That's clearly what Snyder wanted to do.
what they should've done was pull a Godzilla 2000 and rebooted after MoS.

Although you're not really wrong either.

The Batman dream sequence points in the Injustice direction

Snyder's flicks are specifically made for idiots who believe that they are smart.

These type of people are very easy to spot, because of how evident they make their struggle to seem superior to other, even though it always comes out as awkward and cringy.

It was the guy who spent his highschool days in the last row, ballbusting everyone on how his deathcore triple black swedish folk opera metal is superior to anything that has ever reached your ears.

It is the same guy who "refused to hang out with the because they were assholes", while in truth he was just too creepy and unsocial for people to let him hang around their girlfriends

It is the same guy who did not play any sports because he hated how successful chads were.

It is the same guy who kept trying to sell you left wing bullshit tickets at uni, and kept rumbling on how everyone not sharing his views is an idiot and a slave of the system.

It is the type of person that is so stupid, that reason falls on deaf ears, the type of person that will label irrefutable facts as inconsequential and incidental.
These people need to be addressed with caution, as they as extremely self-satisfied and they are irritated easily.

When will you people realize Desaad was manipulating Batman and Lex?

This. If you are too casual to understand it that is your fault.

I hate this movie but why would he assume a weird stress dream he had means anything at all?

See kids, this what happens when an idiot can't understand a film that's too deep for them, they lash out at the people who were smart enough to understand.

Oops, this one got irritated way too easily.

Another BvS bashing thread. Typical.

Another crying DCEU fag.

>surprised that people bash a bad movie

it's more weird that you defend it

All these words and you really say nothing.

When did Desaad manipulate Batman to stop trying to kill Superman over his mommy's name.

Because The Flash was able to effect Bruce's surroundings, making it look like it's not a dream but a warning ala Crisis.

this

Begone, Snyder. Don't you have another movie to ruin

It must really suck for you to watch movies since you apparently need your hand held while someone gives expository dialogue about various aspects of a characters entire life regardless of whether or not it's a bunch of mundane bullshit that doesn't affect the story in anynway. Bvs was by no means a perfect film but your criticisms are nothing more than ignorant whining.

...

Where's the new Justice League trailer already?

HAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

He doesn't care about any of that.

Do you really think that assassins try to uncover everything about their target's life?

WB would be retarded not to release it today

Not him, but that was pretty substantial.

A big part of me hopes that you realize how fucking stupid you sound saying all this pretentious shit over a comic book movie. This is high school film """""critic""""" levels of analysis, all that shit is spelled out for you in the movie and elongating the explanation of these events into several paragraphs does not aid your argument.

Because Batman realized heroism is a lie. At least his and Superman's brand of heroism. That's what the opening sequence with the dream and the bats are about.

Batman realized after Metropolis that he can't really save people. That in actuality he's only increasing and prolonging the damage, the pain, the tragedy. 20 years in Gotham and we can see what good intentions lead to.

So when he sees Superman fucking up throughout the world constantly in the news, making more and more people suffer because he insists on playing the hero, Batman decide that enough is enough. Superman has to go. Maybe Batman too.

That's Batman whole hubris in the movie. He lost faith in heroism and in himself, and he's projecting all his cynicism, paranoia and self-loathing unto Superman. He has become blind... as a bat.

I really don't get this whole Injustice thing that people keep pushing on the DCEU. I'm not even sure Snyder or Terrio ever even played/read that story, and it sure as hell isn't the endgame for the DCEU.
Johns would literally murder Snyder in his sleep before letting him do that kind of story.

See, this is why people don't like to respond to these threads.

Bullshit, that was a perfectly reasonable commentary on what happened in the movie. Not only that, but it seems like retards can't actually get those themes as obvious as they are, as evidenced by this thread.

It was pointing out the obvious in a needlessly pretentious manner. Batman feels bad about his parents? Yeah, no shit, that's the entire basis of his character, thanks for pointing that one out Sherlock.

so you are angry because they got Batman right? got it, you are a retard

>they got batman right.

citation needed.

The realization that Superman was just as human as him broke Desaad's spell over Batman.

How dumb are you that this wasn't obvious to you?

google.com/amp/movieweb.com/amp/batman-ben-affleck-praise-frank-miller/
dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3506835/Critics-slam-Batman-v-Superman-Dawn-Justice-Ben-Affleck-wins-praise-Caped-Crusader-Gal-Gadot-hit-Wonder-Woman.html

Would you like me to find some more citations for you?

Yes, specifically comics.

Read the Dark Knight Returns, Batfleck is basically that version of Batman but improved

>Comics Batman is the world's greatest detective
>BvS Batman is the world's shittiest detective

>Comics Batman is unwilling to kill
>BvS Batman kills without hesitation here and there

>Comics Batman is resilient and meticulous
>BvS Batman is an idiot who acts on visions and gets easily manilupated by gay Lex


Gee, they fucking nailed him.

Millerverse, Earth One, probably a little bit of the Arkham series in there as well.

I'm angry because Snyderfags latch onto things like make Batman upset about his fucking parents, something even Batman and Robin got, and pretend that's enough to make the movie "deep" or "layered."

>bashing a good movie
Gee I wonder why. Defending a good movie (like BvS) makes sense, bashing a good one doesn't.

>gay

well memed, I bet that you get girls wet just by talking to them

Are you randomly naming comics?

It helps that I'm not a fat loser that busts everyone's balls about capekino and the snyderverse.

>pretend that's enough to make the movie "deep" or "layered."

When you use a theme to motive the actions and emotions of a character and use visual techniques to show that theme on a visual level, that makes the movie layered like it or not.

Just because Batman and Robin had a scene about his parents being killed it doesn't mean that is the exact same thing

...

>that I'm not a fat loser that busts everyone's balls about capekino and the snydervaterse

but you did just that

They got Batman right.

A very specific Batman.

Batman hated Superman because he blamed him for Zod's invasion and thought he would ultimately be dangerous to the world (basically Batman projected his own shortfalls onto Superman).


Superman didn't like Batman because he had become judge, jury, and executioner.

not the same user but the nightmare was clearly influenced by Darkside, omega energy and all that shit.

That' why he saw the omega symbol and the Parademons

I'm sure Lee Harvey Oswald spent his time finding out everything about JFK's life before killing him too....


you're an idiot mang

Not at all, can you honestly not see some of those influences?

Thats such a stupid argument, people who try to talk about just the film are always attacked with people being like "BUT THESE PLOTHOLES" that arent actually plotholes. No matter what you like about the movies people attack you.

What was wrong with how it was done? Terrio specifically said he was drawing from classic revenge tragedy structure, and having that big moment of realization like that is perfectly in line with that.

because this is the first alien he has encountered, and probably the first meta (or at the very least the first meta that isn't plain evil).

most killers dont research their victims' personal lives before killing them, other wise they might start to identify with them and not kill them. You know the very fact that Batman has a realization that Superman has a human side, just goes to show that he in no way thought Superman could be Clark Kent.

good post, ignore the idiot responders

that scene is so good, even better with the sound:

youtube.com/watch?v=Oufremzw7d8


Ben's delivery is fantastic

I can see them, I can't see how mashing up a few elements of different versions of a character into a terrible one, makes him any justice.

I guess I'll never know because I don't suck Snyder's cock. Enjoy Batman getting raped in prison in the next movie or so.

you guys are absolute idiots if you actually think the dream was meant to be the definitive future, and not the possible future that Batman tries to avoid by saving Martha.

So what would you say is a good live action interpretation of Batman?

You should post the webm when after Ben says "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something" it cuts to Man of Steel where Jonathon says "I have to believe you're here for a reason"

Batman had fallen in this movie, they finally told a story about Batman crossing the line and whether or not its possible for him to come back from that. The answer is yes, but only because Superman is willing to believe in him.


Batman is allowed to be flawed, he is allowed to have stories where he has fallen or has turned bad, and he is also allowed to come back from that.

The movie could use more dialogue to digest that difference. Both scenes where they confront each other are kind of weak.