I'm not really used to "Kid Cass" yet...

I'm not really used to "Kid Cass" yet. She's been in the comics again for a year now and it's pretty clear that she comes at a very different skill level than Pre52 Cassandra Cain. It's true that she hasn't gotten to star in too many comics, outside of a couple issues of Batman and Robin Eternal, she doesn't get to be the lead ass kicker.

Being on the bottom rung of characters in Detective Comics gives her different responsibilities to the story. She can be bad ass on occasion. But other times she'll have to job pretty hard. And with the thin page counts, her kicking ass is usually done off panel. She doesn't explicitly have the "body language" fighting ability, but she's written as supposedly an exceptional fighter. But other than that she doesn't offer too much to the Bat team except that she's another kid with nothing else to do that's good at punching.

That said there's some neat things they get to do with this new version of her. They're clearly playing up the Cassandra/Stephanie friendship whenever they can pair them up for a scene. It's different here though, like Cassandra's position is of the Kid Sister character now. Her history and feelings aren't written loudly, they're taking her "speaking little" idea to heart and it's going to be interesting to see how they stretch that into a full story in February.

TL;DR, Kid Cass is cool but I miss "mostly Competent" Cassandra. But they're probably gonna make Kid Cass gay for her friends.

I also miss sexy Cassandra, she's a lot of fun to draw.

Also crap, I posted a thumbnail. I GUESS I'll remake this thread later.

Or I could just post the correct image here. It's 5 am and I just felt like typing stuff somewhere it'll disappear on its own.

Cass/Steph/Tim OT3.

Tim has to get back to the regular universe for that to happen. I have no idea where that story is going though.

Tim is supposed to be pure.

>But other times she'll have to job pretty hard.
Dammit Cass, you're turning into your mother!

Detective Comics really shat on Cass and Kate for me. Other people seem to really like it tho.

Is Stephanie fucking Brown going to counter her way through the whole fucking team?

>how they stretch that into a full story in February.

What happens in February?

I want to see a picture of Shiva holding up a comic saying "Dammit Cass, what is all this jobbing?" to Cass crying and holding up a picture of Shivasaurus Rex, saying "I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!"

Fuck, now I want it too...
>Cassandra, this is a whole new universe! A brand new continuity! And what are you doing with it? Getting your ass handed to you by random ballerinas, that's what! Where did you even learn to do that?

She already did in the preceding preview pages. After the linked page, Batman is the only one left.

>Other people seem to really like it tho.
Those people are wrong.

IDK man. It gets a ton of good press from critics and fans. For me personally almost instantaneously I got the not muh reaction on Kate, and subsequently on Cass too. I'm not reading it at the moment but I'll probably have to once it finishes just to see where it took + left these characters.

I only like it for Clayface desu. It's dead to me the moment he goes back to being bad.

What the hell happened? it's like his quality just fizzled away.

Clayface and Cass are the only good things about the series with Tim gone.

pretty much this, although interest did pick up with the victims syndicate thanks to their designs, it flat-lined when their motivations were so shitty bar maybe the clayface girl

The problem with the arc is it's short. This should have focused on Clayface more for his own past fuckups. The focus shouldn't have been on Steph this early. It should have stayed in the back boiling like a volcano till it erupted in a future arc.

Is Shiva Cass's mother in New 52?

Her mother hasn't been identified yet. Cass' arc starts in February, and it looks like from solicits her mother will be revealed in March.

> Shiva/Cass team-up at long last
> Takara back for more for more feels.

How do Cassfags manage to be worse than Jasonfags and Dickfags?

I don't see how you'd be getting that from this thread. Unless you came in here just to start shitflinging?

There's always one.

Because their wooby waifu has been out of print longer. For good reason, Cass sucks.

Sadly yes.

>Cassfags thinking they have it bad.

Your problem is you were co-created by Quesada. It's a miracle DC yielded finally.

>Cass/Steph/Tim
>not Cass/Steph/Tim/Jubilee

NOPE! NOPE! nope nope nope!

>Jasonfags
I never understood why some of you hate them so much. Jason threads here are always the most fun compared to other robins.

I haven't been keeping up but whatever happened to Harper Row

...

I once read a fapfic about that.

Jubilee turned them into vampire brides or something.

Was basically the chosen one in Batman and Robin Eternal, then went to college. She appeared in Tec in the most recent arc, and Tynion hinted that she will eventually become Bluebird again on Twitter.

>Tynion hinted that she will eventually become Bluebird again on Twitter.
The word I would use is "threatened."

Of course she will. Cass in danger with the next arc? Stephanie going nuts? Harper is going to have to save her waifu.

I should hope that the revelation that Cass killed Harper's mother has killed that ship forever in-universe.

All of current DC product is just shitty fanfic as far as I'm concerned. The quality is certainly at that level.

I can't even muster anger at them mishandling Cass anymore, since anger would require expecting something better from them, and they're clearly not capable of that. I just watch them write Cass losing to fucking Spoiler and Harper Row and Kite Man the way I watch a retarded child eat its own shit.

> I should hope that the revelation that Cass killed Harper's mother has killed that ship forever in-universe.

You know the answer given the hand holding in the recent issue of Tec they had. When Tynion around the ship is still set to sail.

Tynion is Beechen 2.0.

> implying anyone can be as bad as Beechen.

That's a level Tynion can never achieve because the damage done by Beechen was too much.

He really is. I can't think of a single thing that Beechen did wrong that Tynion didn't also do, and he's also done shit that Beechen DIDN'T do (mainly using Cass as a damsel in distress). His rendition of her is just abominable, and DC lets it happen.

I chalk up the difference to Tynion not operating under editorial directives that are openly hostile to Cass.

Cass had better designs during Beechen's era, however.

I kind of like the ninja look they went with her, but would it kill them to give her some bat ears or something? Her mask sucks ass.

Why? You enjoy the constant arguments about how they fucked him up and totally mishandled him once he came back that always just repeat themselves?

The thing that bothers me about that costume is that Cass has had that costume since she was a kid, but it still fits her. Also, the mask sucks.

Say what you will about rebirth Cass
At least she didn't lose to Harley Quinn after Harley messed up a line as simple as "You know Karate, but I know Crazy".
Being Shiva is suffering and jobbing.

I honestly don't see any fucking way Tynion is better than Beechen. It's like comparing Hitler and Stalin.

Fuck, I think Beechen's Cass came across as way more competent. She only lost to Tim and Slade. Current shit-tier moron Cass has everybody with a cape and a name running circles around her. I don't think she's won a single fight.

>She doesn't explicitly have the "body language" fighting ability
Which I always thought was pretty retarded

>But other than that she doesn't offer too much to the Bat team except that she's another kid with nothing else to do that's good at punching.
Isn't that the only thing she ever offered?

I don't mind Cass being bi/gay but I really hate the Harper pairing. I hate the Harper character.

She's simply Tim but with a '10s haircut and uses a tasergun

I actually agree with you there because RHATO storytime are pretty fun and we had some really good RH threads like that one about his days as Robin and that thread we had in his birthday.

If you don't like the correct version of the character and her character-defining trait, kindly fuck off. I'm not going to lower myself to argue why Spider-Man should have his spider-sense.

Ha, yeah. That's a perfect way to phrase it. I was on the verge of saying "She feels like a Tim for a later decade"

> Dick
> her dad twice.
> Ballerina Fighter
> robot drones.
> Mother, after beating every Robin save Dick.

Plus gay brother, the only thing Tim didn't have. Because he himself was gay.

Oh God. Harper literally is Tim reborn!!!

Harper's treatment in BRE was one of the most baffling parts of the story. She was set up as this jesuslike "chosen one" character when she has literally nothing special going for her. Only explanation I can come up with is writer blatantly playing favorites.

My favourite part was when she had like "electrical engineering vision" that let her manipulate the electrics in the room.

Sorry, I meant a fight that matters in some fucking way.

Her character intro was literally her talking to Batman who was acting all emo after his Robin had died.

They weren't hiding the fact that she was FemTim at all.

Because they get rekt by them many times.

I also don't understand what they were thinking when they made the story. Like seriously, who thought it was a good idea to push her in the book that supposed to be a celebration for the robins?

>who thought it was a good idea to push her in the book that supposed to be a celebration for the robins?
The same people who didn't have Damian in the book until the last 5-10 issues.

They made such a big mess out of her that even Snyder declared that she is a failure and only Tynion care about her now.

That was actually Shado, not Shiva.
Shiva is the one who got shot in the ass by Harley Quinn.

Okay that's slightly better, since nobody cares about Shado.

I do, but holy shit, Lemire's GA run did her no favors at all.

Oh my god, I just read that whole preview for the first time and it was even more retarded than I thought. Stephanie fucking Brown doesn't just Ko Cass (which is retarded enough by itself), she KOs EVERYONE in the team with one move each like she's Prometheus or some shit. What the fuck is up with Tynion? Is he literally unaware of the supposed power levels of these characters? Did he miss the detail that Steph is the weakest of all of them?

I kind of like the idea of Steph being competent. I mean, if you're going to redo her character, why not do something a little bit different?

Oh shit when did Steph go back to the old mask?
That looks way better than the half face thing she had.

That the one about the WW2 vet with the Yakuza sword and Shado bangs some PTSD Vietnam vet?

Luke made her a mask to counter Mr. Noxious in #945.

Yup, the mini. Good stuff. Although a part of me is terribly jealous that Shado has a four issue prestige miniseries while Shiva doesn't even have a solo one-shot to her name.

If you're not going to stay true to the characters, you shouldn't write those characters.

Besides, soloing teams goes WAY beyond "competent" in rankings. It's the sort of thing that's typically used to show a huge difference in power in favor of the solo. I don't think even the biggest stephfag would seriously think she is or should be the strongest Bat character.

What's the source on your picture?

The characters you know and loved have been gone for more than a decade now. DC deigned to bring back characters that LOOK like them, but this is a new universe and an altered continuity. They're not the same.

Interior art from issue 2 of that mini.

That looks gorgeous man. I'll have to look it out.

Do it. It's called Song of the Dragon, and it's by Mike Grell, Michael Davis Lawrence and Gray Morrow. Great stuff and a more than worthy companion to Grell's awesome GA run.

>Mike Grell
Had no idea this existed, ta.

the next story arc is gonna be more Cass centric if I'm remembering right.

are you both daft? beechen!cass literally fucked up her entire character for YEARS, and they were only back on track to fixing it before new52 happened.

tynion's only real sin is not utilizing cass better, because he's way more into tim, stephanie and his pet character harper in comparison.

"Super competent" sure as fuck isn't nu52 Stephanie Brown any more than it was the old version.

Wait, did the damn Tim AI give Steph ready-made counters for the whole team?

There's a two part Batwoman arc in January to set up her solo, then Cass's arc starts in February.

Oh boy, do we have something to look forward to. A Cass arc written by the worst Cass writer since the one that originally ruined her. I wonder what shit tier weakling she'll job to this time? Maybe Cullen beats her. Maybe Leslie.

Except it's not even the next arc, because there's going to be a Kate arc before then, co-written by some feminist hag. But wasn't there like two Kate arcs already? Apparently she's just so fascinating.

Current Cass is fucked just as hard as Beechen's version, and mostly in the same ways: radically retconned backstory and relationships, constant misuse/lack of use of body reading, jobbing to people who literally should be 100% unable to fight her.

Also writer's unwillingness to let the girl have a meaningful contribution to the story. At this rate Cass is going to mostly sit out her own arc.

If I could make it illegal for two people to write Cass, I'd pick Beechen and Tynion.

Seriously, NuCass is the character in the cast most in need of fleshing out, but instead her arc has been pushed back a dozen issues. I would say it was for the best except Tynion is going to get to it eventually.

It just hurts the comic since there is this mute cypher running around and apparently doing badass shit off-screen.

She was popular once. Always unfortunate to see a character build so much steam only to have it ruined by some hack writer who thinks they know better.

She was literally the only western comic character my sister liked. She reads a ton of manga, and Cass, good Cass, was basically a manga character. I would never show this version to her. It's better for her to think that she was only ever written by Puckett and the issue where she beats Shiva and gets over her desth wish is the last one.

I get that Sup Forums hates Tynion, but you're absolutely fucking insane if you think Tynion is anywhere near as bad on Cass as Beechen was. Beechen's primary sin was completely eradicating core parts of Cass's character to the point where she was unrecognizable. For all of Tynion's faults, his Cass is at least recognizably Cass and not going on long-winded speeches or having her issues with language resolved off-panel.

I would love to see Cass do more ass-kicking on panel, but she is at least written as the most competent fighter on the team.

>She was popular once.

She still is. The grand problem is she just isn't Barbara Gordon.

Hey, we have two spidermen, so why not two batgirls as well?

Don't we have two Flashes now? What are they calling White Wally?

I agree with tall of this. Beechen even when he was "trying" to write the character in Volume 2 still failed on every level.

Tynion for the lack of ass-kicking still manages to write a competent Cassandra. I'd rank him with Fabian or Kyle Higgins. Not on the Puckett or Dixon tier, but Tynion sure as hell ain't Beechen level.

I'm more worried about Shiva in the next arc than Cassandra. I just hope she doesn't job, Tynion learned from his RHaTO arc with her, and at the very least teams up with Cassandra with it not being Shiva vs. Cass redeux. We've seen them fight. It's gorgeous. It's Jet Li vs. Donnie Yen of comic fights. Anytime they fight it's glorious.

If Shiva/Cass team-up against the League with Bruce or Clayface just standing there witnessing it all, with a "Dayum." look at these two women kicking unholy ass.

All we know so far is Tynion promises more feels given he's reuniting with the best artist from B&RE in Takara. If we get something even better than that issue those two did then fuck yes.

Bullshit. How is this shitpile Cass? She kind of mopes and doesn't talk a lot, but that's it. That's not even surface level understanding of her. Her backstory is completely different. There's no trace of her abilities or philosophy or central motivation or important relationships. She has no agency, even in her own story. She comes across as a pathetic fighter to the point that I could probably beat her, and there's no trace of her non-combat skills. Even the fetishy appeal of her old costume is gone, replaced with nothing. This Cass is Beechen tier terrible, in fact she's worse in some ways. At least the Beechen version DID things and had successes.