Anyone else underwhelmed by Rebirth? The vibe I get is that it's highly praised, and selling like hotcakes...

Anyone else underwhelmed by Rebirth? The vibe I get is that it's highly praised, and selling like hotcakes, but at the same time, nobody seems to be terribly enthused by any of the biggest books.

A lot of the big titles like Batman, Wonder Woman, Action Comics, Detective Comics, and Justice League seem to be regarded as disappointing or straight up bad. Other books like Flash, Green Arrow and Aquaman are so bland that nobody even cares if they exist.

What's actually good in Rebirth? People seem to like Superman, but I get the feeling that's only because of "muh Superdad", because it's pretty fucking milquetoast. I've heard people say good things about Green Lanterns and Nightwing, but that's about it.

Rebirth seems to just be a lot of pandering to people who hated Nu52, without actually delivering anything substantial.

By pandering to the old fans, they got the media on their side

The biggers sales are mostly just covering up the fact that they have fewer titles

A lot of books are having a bigger drop than the New 52 in the same amount of time.

Green Arrow and Teen Titans/Titans benefited from it.
I don't think anyone else did.

The first few months weren't bad and actually quite exciting, but I have lost interest in all of their books except Red Hood in the last few month.

So yeah, It's has been really underwhelming.

Marvel shills on the thread, Rebirth has been great if you like to READ.

People that claim is ''underwelming'' probably don't like to read or to read comic books that much or expect everytyhing to be ''FUCKING HYPE!''

That's not how reading works

I think it gets overhyped just because everything else lately has been so mediocre.

*Rebirth has been great if you like MUH REAL CHARACTER

I'm actually loving the even numbered issues of Wonder Woman. I mean, I can understand a lot of people started with Azzarrello and are justifiably salty, but it wasn't my thing and I'm glad to have a more "love and peace and occasional talking to animals" version of the character going on again.

Do you even know the state the Flash and Lantern books were in right before Rebirth?

Rebirth and New 52 are of the same quality

The difference is that they tricked people into thinking Rebirth is "the real DCU that everybody loves" while crucifying the New 52, even though a lot of the books have even more different aspects than they had in the New 52.

Superdad for instance is not Superman. He's completely different in everything else that isn't his persona.

Also, all the good non A-list interesting books are now just minis.

the problem being that Wonder Woman was still a beacon of peace and love while in an engaging story, instead of a collection of panels of Wonder Woman being childish and pure and now autistic.

So when is Manhatten showing up?
Aside from The Comedian in the Batcave, I don't think they've referenced anything about Watchmen.

I found dishonest how they shitted on Moore/Watchmen for being edgy and devoid of hope. while also destroying the charm of "dc", because lol Manhattan stole the love from dc, writers are too obsessed with Watchmen these days!

I find it more dishonest the fact that Geoff McHack wrote Darkseid war and JL origin, and then he complains about how shitty was the new 52 and how he was bringing back the charm, when he was in fact one of the architects of that problem.

Finally, while Rebirth itself is a good book, the regular series quickly went back to edgy grim stuff. Frankly other than some cheap pandering like bringing back Wally West, Rebirth DC is practically the same as New 52 on its overall grim tone. The "happy hope charming" DC didnt last more than 3 issues.

Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later, when one of the main complains about Nuperman was that he was too violent. Now add I am suicide batman and other shit and you realize this is not better than New 52.

>CWII getting shit on.
>R-rebirth sucks, amiright?
Every time.

>Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later, when one of the main complains about Nuperman was that he was too violent.

And the worst part is that overall people are fine with it, because DC got them on their side by pretending this was the real Superman.

While New 52 Superman did a lot of good deeds and yet everyone still believed he was an asshole.

>company wars mongoloids

>>Sup Forums

People hating on Superbro was all Johns' fault
He rarely was an ass outside of the JL origin story that Johns' wrote, and that was the impression that stuck for the New 52

WW was in danger of droppping below 20K before Rebirth.

>Now even classic Superman is a violent brute that punches first and asks later
Only if you read Jurgens' dreck which old fags actually think is good and Hitch's shit. He's perfectly fine in Superman.

>the regular series quickly went back to edgy grim stuff
What? You're kidding right?
>Woah Batman thinks the concept of Batman is stupid
>EDGY

The superman titles have been great

>I think it gets overhyped
This and a lot of their books end up not living up to the hype.

>Rebirth DC is practically the same as New 52
Rebirth was better planned compared to N52, but the writing has been underwhelming except in few books.

The problem this time lay in their writers, not their editor staff like it was in N52.

>That's not how reading works
Comics aren't how reading works. The twice-a-month schedule has hurt the books, too. There is so much decompression going on here.

Rucka just needs to get over himself and retcon shit if he's going to do it and move the fuck on. The book has spent months doing jack fucking shit.

This. Much like Superbro, it seems like some people didn't even read Nu52 Wonder Woman and just decided she was "NOT MUH".

OP here. I will admit that CWII is, on the whole, much worse than the entirety of rebirth... I think. It's hard to weigh a whole relaunch against one event book, but yeah, while Rebirth is disappointing, CWII reminds me just how bad comics can be sometimes.

This. I still can't believe how everyone just looked the other way when Superman started a fight with Lex in a crowded public place with civilians nearby, just because he was wearing his symbol. In general Jurgens writes Superman as the simple punch-factory that normies see him as. But hey, he's pre-Flashpoint and is married to Lois, so BEST CHARACTER EVAR!!!

His run meandered a bit, but I would take Pak's quite, introspective Superbro over this any day. It may have fell a bit flat due to poor execution, but I really miss the DCYou's bold new directions. The concepts were cool as hell. It's pretty obvious that Rebirth is DC going full pandering and trying to pull a 180 from that.

So it's his fault people don't read comics?

I suppose the argument is that it's his fault for making one of Superman's most high-profile appearances paint him in a negative light. At the start of Nu52, Morrison's Action was set in the past and was kind of a cocky asshole, and the main Superman title just straight up sucked, so there wasn't a recognizable version of Superman for a while.

Superman line is good again
Tom King > > > Snyder
Nightwing's pretty good

But it's still odd it's the new 52 universe where no one remembers the legacy. Hoping a crossover/event gives everyone those memories back.

>bland without delivering anything substantial

So, it's the MCU?

Also, why the fuck does this topic always seem to come up whenever Civil War II stuff pops up?

Honestly, I don't see where this negativity is coming from. Some of the big-league titles are mediocre (Justice League; Action Comics; Detective Comics) and of course Batman is incredibly controversial (I like it, personally). But noone really disputes that Superman is awesome, and it has done wonders for smaller titles. The Green Lantern franchise is in its best state since Johns left, I haven't read Flash, but it seems at least to be better than Venditti's shit, Green Arrow is great, Deathstroke is amazing, plus the increased sales through pandering are subsidizing a lot of really, really great stuff (minis, Hanna-Barbera, Young Animal).

I'm just an oldfag who misses 'muh dc', so there is little point in me weighing in. Just like anything that isn't DCAU/Post-Crisis Batman just won't feel right to me. It all just feels like spinoffs at best and fanfiction at worst to me.

It actually lost them my dollar as a regular customer. All I buy are trades from post-crisis and pre-Flashpoint I don't have, Elseworlds, and DCEU stuff.

Some of the Rebirth stuff is entertaining, but I doubt I'll buy many trades when the old renditions of origins and iconic tales have already been told better and with a more rich history behind them.

...

In her first issue she was cutting centaur legs as if they were leafs with her sword, pal.

I think Rebirth is fine, but the way people respond to Superdad just cements in my mind that they way to fix Superbro would have just been to have him and new 52 Lois elope because that's the only real difference between them right now. He still isn't acting like pre-Flashpoint Superman besides when he was written by the shittiest of writers but people pretend it's him just because of the marriage.

New 52 was more daring and give us a lot of new stuff.

Rebirth is muh nostalgia which is why it got really boring after a while.

No you fucking idiot, no one's debating quality wise. It's just that you guys are so stupid that you don't realize that it's still the same edgy crap from the New 52
>Batman is suicidal
>Wonder Woman is literally insane now
>Superman is still a punch first, ask questions later guy
>Aquaman is still a dick
>Nightwing is still a manwhore
>Flash is still not Wally
How you sheep flock to this I don't know.

>sheep

Let's play a game of spot the fifteen-year-old.

>Tom King > > > Snyder

Honestly? I'd rather have Snyder's Batman.

King's Batman is an utterly broken man and i just don't like that interpretation.

I fucking miss Morrison's Batman, man...

>anything that isn't DCAU/Post-Crisis Batman just won't feel right to me
>he's a "there's only one true version of the character" fan
I'll let you show yourself out.

>DCAUfag
>Dixonfag

please leave

Rebirth's real problem is that it's letting people like this think that the vast majority of New 52 was anything but butt cheeks. Especially when it came to Superman.

The Superman line was almost completely a fucking mess during the New 52 save Morrison's run and the Men of Tomorrow stuff. Those books were fucking garbage and it's mind-boggling how many people are sitting here pining for that trash.

No argument there. Pak was good but he didn't have Morrison's gravitas to not have to be assed to do tie-ins to crossovers and events. Yang didn't even had a chance. Literally the first time he came he's already on a crossover.

>Batman is suicidal
Holy shit, people actually believe this? Are you retarded? Are you illiterate?
>Wonder Woman is literally insane now
I'll admit, I haven't been keeping up with this, but this isn't necessarily edgy.
>Superman
Apart from one instance with Lex Luthor, not seeing it.
>Aquaman
Haven't been keeping up I'm afraid
>Nightwing
Has always been a manwhore, that's not edgy crap.
>Flash
is both Wally and Barry. Though I will admt they're still sidelining him a bit.

But besides all of that, OP is most definitely talking about whether it's good or not, so I don't see how my post isn't relevant.

I personally never hated n52 and thought it was a good idea.

Rebirth isn't bad and there are books that I'm really loving like RHATO and books like GLs and NSM are fun. The upcoming Superman issues seems really interesting and I'm curious to see where Batman and WW are heading next.

The writers just needs to be more daring in their writing and stop pandering to the nostalgia fans.

>Honestly? I'd rather have Snyder's Batman.
Kind of agree. I only really liked him during Court of Owls. Toward the end, Snyder's run was pretty meh. I was excited for King after reading his recent stuff, but damn. He dropped the ball hard. I'm not even that opposed to seeing Batman as a broken man, but all of it just felt so bland. To the point where Batman was just blatantly asking Alfred "WOULD MUH PARENTS APPROVE" while he was going down in a blaze of glory. The book never really recovered from that point. The best thing about King's Batman is his Alfred. When I got to issue 8 or 9 or so, I realized I was just reading the book for him, and I dropped it. Alfred ongoing when?

Of course, then Snyder started writing crazy All Star Batman which I have found to be pretty fun. Not much in terms of depth, but the story moves along, it's pretty high-stakes, and the random, themed villain combos are amusing.

I think you're exaggerating. Pak/Kuder was fine outside of crossovers. Supergirl was mostly fine start to finish. I didn't like the resolution of the Johns/JRJR arc but it was mostly ok. There was basically at least one readable book in the main line the whole time outside of the couple of months between Morrison and Pak. Only difference between that and now with Rebirth is that we have New Super-Man as well.

And yet we have people like OP jerking off to it because

>the concepts were cool and HYPE, it doesn't matter that meandered and slogged and the execution didn't fully live up to it ITS NU

Rebirth made DC readable again. It didn't give us a lot of must read books, but it did stop DC from being utter shit.

Here's the thing about the Superdad/Superbro debacle:

You can change Superman if want it, but that change has to be from the moment Superman and Lois are already married by a couple years. So you can give them a kid, give Superman grey hair, give Lois cancer, whatever. But any changes has to come after they're already an established couple.

When people think of nowadays they don't see a young Superman who's just starting out in Metropolis and is inexperienced and single. And when i say this i'm talking about the casual audience. The people that normally don't read books. No. Since the 90's thanks to shows like Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series everybody see Superman as a wise hero who's happy with Lois. It's a mental image ingrained in popular culture.

I remember that when DC did that huge marketing over that Superman and Wonder Woman kiss in Geoff Johns' Justice League run and went on the Good Morning America to announce that Superman and Wonder Woman were finally a couple in the couples that the hosts were fucking confused by it. They asked about Superman and Lois' marriage and when they were told that they weren't married anymore in the comics and that the SM/WW was something that has been building in the comics since the 80's the hosts kept rambling about Wonder Woman being a homewrecker who didn't respected other women and wasn't a good feminist. It was a super odd and awkward thing to watch. DC doing this big thing on TV and the hosts giving their sympathies to Lois and shaming Wonder Woman.

So yeah. A lot of Superbro's failings with the public had to do with the fact that he was young, the Kents weren't there, he and Lois weren't dating and things like that, he wasn't working for the Daily Planet anymore and so on. Things that people have come to expect. If you keep these things you cam pretty much do anything that nobody will bat an eye.

Rebirth Superman line is hardly better than N52.

Superman and New Super-Man are decent while the rest are all mediocre.

I'll still never understand why they promoted SMWW like they did. Maybe they thought people would love it or something and changed gears once the reactions started up, but it seemed like everyone who wrote the pairing outside of the SMWW book wrote it like it was doomed purposely to show why it was a bad idea (and generally we do know that none of those creators actually ship SMWW). Or just flat out ignored it and had them flirting with other people. Whole thing was just odd.

And it does conflict with the single Superman thing because the reason you do that is so you can play around with Lana and such again. To (theoretically at least, since yeah they did still play around with things a little) sideline all that potential for a committed relationship is just weird. None of it will ever make sense to me as an outsider and I'd really like to hear the real story of what went down on the inside.

Morrison and Johns were pretty great. Not masterpieces, but certainly up there, especially considering how different they were from standard, pre-flashpoint stuff. I'd consider John's one-shot in Superman #39 to be a "must read", honestly. Lobdell's run on Superman wasn't very deep, but it was kind of fun in a "Dragonball Z" way.

I suppose we disagree on Pak. I found his run to be very good. It started strong, and faltered a bit with all the mandatory crossover shit. Unfortunately, DCyou/depowered Supes was a bust, but that one concept was more interesting than anything I've read in Rebirth so far.

This road goes both ways. I would rather have an interesting concept with failed execution than a safe, boring concept with adequate execution. The argument can easily be made that people are only "jerking off" to Rebirth Supes because of "MUH COMFY SUPERDAD" shit. Everyone pretty much admits it. Action and JL are sub-par at best, and nobody can say why Superman is good besides "MUH SUPERMAN".

And the Batman line has been really mediocre too.

N52 has offered better books, but that doesn't mean that there's no good book in rebirth.

The gossip is that the whole SM/WW thing was Jim Lee's idea. Jim Lee push for it when the idea of a reboot was still in the beginning and forced it to happen. Some even say that Geoff Johns wasn't a fan and would rather have BM/WW.

But i think that is just shippers making shit up. DC always had an itch to do the SM/WW pairing in the main canon and Nu52 finally gave them a chance.

All the people you are talking about do not read comics.

And people who read comics do not watch Good Morning America.

>MUH COMFY SUPERDAD
Pretty much. Superman is comfy, but I wouldn't dare to call it great.

Please tell me there's a video of tv people calling WW a homewrecker, that is hilarious to me.

>Things that people have come to expect. If you keep these things you cam pretty much do anything that nobody will bat an eye.
The problem is that Superman is such an iconic character that so many people have had exposure to that almost EVERY part of who he is has an expectation tied to it. Even something as mundane as Clark wearing glasses as part of his disguise. If you found a way disguise Clark without glasses, people would be pissed and normies would be confused, because CLARK KENT WEARS GLASSES.

The moral of the story is that people cannot deal with change of any type.

To me it's safe to say Johns was pretty firmly in the Clark/Lois camp based on how he has generally written them especially with his run on the books. Doesn't make him blameless on the execution of SMWW but it does suggest to me that it wasn't his idea.

I feel like they bungled Truth by turning it into a crossover like they did. The main books were actually good when they stood on their own but the setup and conclusion stuff was just bad.

Deathstroke is the only readable book, while the rest is meh.

Yeah, but my point was that it isn't just old readers being all NOT MUH in regards to Superman. That's just how people in general now perceive Superman in popular culture. They think of Superman and they picture a weird lovechild of Christopher Reeve and Dean Cain.

Take MoS for example. Nobody liked the young, angsty and inexperienced Superman from that movie.

So of course they'll love Superdad even if he smoking crack in alley around Suicide Slum. As long that when he goes home Lois is there and Supes is smiling while starring at nothing all is right in the world.

>The problem is that Superman is such an iconic character that so many people have had exposure to that almost EVERY part of who he is has an expectation tied to it.
Even his underwear.

>Deathstroke is the only readable book
Please, this book is getting really meh.

Superman line is still just as thrash as it was during new 52.

*dead horses turned mindless centaur monsters minutes earlier

did you even read the rest of the book?
it's like people whining about the God of War stuff and "that's not muh WW, muh Diana is not pro-war", when it was made exactly to create conflict because she's against war. Having to carry the burden.

>we will never have a Superman era as based as Kelly through Johns/Busiek again

truly why even live

Diana didn't knew that.

Nice. Have an upvote.

And she had to think fast to save a human life
She didn't even kill the centaurs then

Thanks for the dots.

OP. It is fucking milquetoast. You can't write good stories. Making up shit as you go along, just so they conveniently give you want you want. Nothing is worse than making Wonder Woman whole life of 5 yrs a life and now a mad bitch. Rebirth is worse than the new 52. At least that had some sort of logic and originality. This shit is all over the place. Trying hard to pander to fan boys in their forties and fifties written by the same kind of fan boy writers like Jurgens who wrote the worse Superman story and villain there ever was: Death of Superman.You ever read that story? It is shite. . He is in charge of Superman now. BAKA. DC have screwed their new 52 continuity after making a god awful mess pre new 52 where everything was a bigger mess.

>Hits centaur with her head to stun him
>Severed one centaur arm because she had too
>They ran away

too violent, not my Diana

>Nobody liked the young, angsty and inexperienced Superman from that movie.
I did. I also liked the young, brash, asshole Superman from Morrison's action. And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL. I think the fun of the character is all the different ways you can portray him while still having him hold the same essential values.

I'm just really tired of Superdad. I feel like most people used to be, or at least never clung to his image as blindly as they do now that other interpretations have crept in.

Should Diana give a shit? They're fucking monsters. Why does every hero have to be a "life is the most precious gift", PETA-loving, tree-hugging faggot? Sometimes, shit has to die. I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil, even before Nu52.

I hate how branching out with characters just makes fanboys cling ever harder to their stupid, flawed, family-safe interpretations just because "MUH FUN!".

fucking google images thumbnails

Dude, THE NEW 52 continuity WAS a mess.

Deathstroke has been good.

>And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL.

He wasn't quiet at all. He was a bigger asshole than Morrison's Superman.

Morrison's Superman was cocky for like... three or four issues, then the whole "golden age" thing was over and we had "bronze age" Superman.

>Should Diana give a shit? They're fucking monsters. Why does every hero have to be a "life is the most precious gift", PETA-loving, tree-hugging faggot? Sometimes, shit has to die. I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil, even before Nu52.

And she was against killing monsters if they were already beaten and not a threat anymore, as seen with the Minotaur

>Death of Superman.You ever read that story? It is shite
I did. I always thought it was understood that it was awful, but there are a disturbing number of people who put it on some kind of pedestal. As I've said many times before, people seem to just cling to what they remember from yesteryear, whether it was good or not, simply because they remember it, and nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

I feel like you can do anything with Superman if you converge him to the recognizable state by the end of whatever it is you're doing. That's why Morrison (and many Elseworlds) worked while other attempts did not.

>she was against killing monsters if they were already beaten and not a threat anymore
>let monster suffer and die from his wounds instead of finishing him off with mercy
Cold.

>I always thought that, with her warrior upbringing, Wonder Woman was one of the heroes who understood that death is a part of the struggle between good and evil

That's what always end up fucking Wonder Woman characterization. People see that she was trained as a warrior for being an amazon and turn her into Kratos with boobs.

I unfortunately agree with this. The last few issues have been really underwhelming and the upcoming arc doesn't seem interesting.

It really was. But that's in part because they cancelled a lot of the most interesting comics, leaving only the main trinity, and Red Hood. (I'm exxagerrating, but not by much. Remember "Agents of SHADE?" Neither does DC.)

he wasn't dying
he just wanted to live in his comfy maze

>And the quiet, overconfident, loner Superman from John's JL.

The biggest mistake was DC's attempt to turn him into Batman.

I think it's still been good but the slow burn is getting to the reader after it was initially intriguing for being different. It will probably be worth it in the end but feels like a trade waiter due to the pace.

I remember the awesome scene of Steel fighting Brainiac, risking his life for a man who he idolized.

Because Mouseketeers can't help themselves when backed up against the wall.

Yeah, bad writers do stupid shit, nothing new

Just as Rucka turned "peaceful and loving Wonder Woman" into retarded Wonder Woman

And it's funny because Marston's Wonder Woman was very harsh and typical Golden Age dickish, and yet it's the "peaceful ever loving Wonder Woman". That was just relatively, compared to all the Golden Age superheroes that were dicks.

I remember the CBR and tumblr fags whining that she killed Ares

I also remember Rucka's original run in which she killed Medusa and that giant arm monster

What's with this selective memory bullshit?

I think the problem with Rebirth is the lack of "HAPPENING!" moments that make it seem really boring and underwhelming.

It's just too safe.

the current Superman comic its freaking great, I hope the creative team stays for years, the Tomasi/Gleason combo is stronger Rugal's kicks

Johns is the most HAPPENING writer at DC and he's not writing right now so it's not really a surprise.

People love heroes that don't kill, for some reason. The sentiment has gotten exponentially stronger since Man of Steel came out. Based on how worked up people get on the subject, I imagine some legitimately masturbate over the idea of a hero choosing not to take a life in a situation where they have the opportunity to do so. It's like some kind of weird, reverse, death-cuckoldry.

I think that with Wonder Woman people are just tired of her always defaulting to the Conan personality or getting flake from the World's Finest for killing someone. It's always Wonder Woman who's placed in that position due to being an amazon. That when she's all about peace, love and reformation.

>People love heroes that don't kill, for some reason
Then why are there daily thread with hundreds if replies in which people are crying about Batman not killing the Joker.

>>Flash
>is both Wally and Barry. Though I will admt they're still sidelining him a bit.

Wally's never not gonna be sidelined. Barry's in the movies and TV show and that's all that matters. Wally could sell 200k comics today and Barry would still be "THE" Flash, the guy who gets The Flash comic and the Justice League spot.

Wally's permanently Barry's spinoff character instead of his own character. Something everyone knew would happen the second Flash Rebirth was announced 8 years ago.

Action seemed like it might be HAPPENING, from the early solicits. I mean, Doomsday showing up, Lex pretending to be Superman, and some doppelganger Clark Kent? It was very interesting, but Jurgens somehow found a way to draw it out and water it down so hard that I dropped the book a long time ago. That's our Jurgens.

I blame Johns' editorial for this. His Rebirth plot and forcing down his version of characters down other writers' throat seem to be a constraint for writers to do their own thing.

To be fair the Joker makes no sense anyway. He's not interesting and isn't highly trained. It's not really a question of whether Batman should kill him as much as why no one has managed to just snipe him one day even if the answer (because they need him for future stories) is obvious. Even the usual "other villains keep him around to distract and cause chaos" rings hollow most of the time.

I pretty much knew it was hopeless when they were announcing the books at the Rebirth panel and he didn't know Cyborg Superman was Kara's dad in the new 52. Then I tried reading the first couple of issues and he had seemingly large mistakes like Superdad apparently having fought Doomsday only once or the idea that the new 52 had never faced something called Doomsday before. Why put someone completely clueless on a book that's supposed to be important?

Most people that liked New 52 never read a comic before in their lives.

memes