Has Civil War 2 actually surpassed Ultimatum and "won" the title of Worst Marvel Event?

Has Civil War 2 actually surpassed Ultimatum and "won" the title of Worst Marvel Event?

Nah, Ultimatum is literally moldy shit
But CWII is probably the worst in the main continuity lately

Civil War 2 had really good art at least

No. Absolutely not. I don't think you quite understand how bad Ultimatum is. If you judge purely on quality and not its effect on the universe at large, I'd say Age of Ultron was worse than CWII so CWII isn't even Bendis' worst event.

Civil War II is comparable to Secret Wars II. Which still means it's among the worst events of all time, but not "the" worst.

Not worst

But considering Iron Man's side is meant to be the technically correct, but in reality flawed, side, it fucking falls apart as both sides are terrible, with Marvel's being worse somehow (at least in my opinion).

How do you end up with a civil war scenario when Tony is 'right', especially the way he is written? You usually have to bring in some insane version of Reed Richards to make him look reasonable.

What about Fear Itself?

People exaggerate Fear Itself. Fear Itself was mainly hated because it was 7 months long and the plot moved so slowly. The premise wasn't that bad, but it took forever for things to happen because they create the Mighty and beat the Worthy in the last issue

Not nearly that bad. I was personally more insulted by half the final issue being literally nothing but advertisements for more events but I never cared much for the Ultimate universe and as a whole it's not nearly as bad as Ultimatum. That event is practically on a level of it's own in terms of shit.

CWII didn't anhhilate 616's hopes of ever being good again.

Hulk & Rhodey will at least come back.

>Worst Marvel Event
Ahh, young'ins these days...

Fear Itself was great, I recall people liking it alot as it came out and only started hating it after the fact.
Fantastic art.
Focus on Steve & Thor's mythos which is rare and a nice change of pace after the past several Steve/Tony focused events.
Some really great fight scenes and the Invincible Iron Man tie in was good.

Its only flaws was a rushed conclusion/Absurd number of tie ins/Big meaningful death with Bucky that was undone in the epilogue.,

Ultimatum wasn't that bad...
>Killed off fuck tons of people
>Changed the shape of the universe
>Brought about major consequences especially for Mutants.
THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT, to do things you fucking can't in the 616.

Ultimatum took everything in the Ultimate Universe and ruined it.

Civil War 2 was just mediocre as hell. It wasn't really BAD per se, because nothing really happened enough to be bad.

Everyone was expecting those things to happen, user. That's not why it was shit. It was shit because of the completely retarded way people were killed off and the way everyone suddenly acted completely out of character.

Mutants with flying and teleportation powers were the ones who died in the flood for god's sake, and we didn't even get to see them try to escape or anything they just showed up dead with no explanation. The blob was just randomly there for no good reason(especially since he'd know the town was going to get hit and being there would be a suicide attempt) just to be able to shock the reader with random cannibalism.

Tony wasn't right. Carol was wrong, but Civil War II is almost entirely Tony's fault.

Atlantis Attacks wasn't THAT bad.

>>Killed off fuck tons of people
>THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT, to do things you fucking can't in the 616.

Yeah, but who was left after that? They got rid of all the characters that people actually cared about. Who really wanted to see Kitty Pryde's adventures in leading the X-men? Or the Ultimates with Bombshell and Cloak & Dagger?

>Fear Itself was great
No it wasn't

>I recall people liking it alot as it came out and only started hating it after the fact.
You're either remember incorrectly, or the "people" you're referring to aren't Sup Forumsmrades because we sure as fuck didn't like it while it was coming out. A lot of the tie-ins were well liked but the main mini definitely wasn't outside of the #0 issue.

The whole event seemed like a really retarded thing to trigger a war. I mean it's not this is the first character to even know what happens in the future and wanting to change it.

Trust me, it was

The only good thing that happened in Ultimatum was J Jonah Jameson coming around on Spider-man

Not only that, but the Blob wasn't even fucking evil at this point. He had a daughter, and wanted to reconnect with her.

All of those ideas were actually pretty good, they were all just written like shit

I didn't read Atlantis Attacks but damn that page is fucking stupid. Even the copy pasted art is shit.

You're all smalltime.

It's up there but Ultimatum is still a train wreck of train wrecks
I mean for fucksakes the amount of needless killing almost every issue and the senseless of the plot to top it off.

It's sin was it was a pretty generic straightforward event. It would have been fine as a core Thor book with a few crossover specails. As the big crossover event of the year it just didn't have the legs for it.
Mislabeled event but hardly the worse. Inferno was more a mess then that event.
Just because you can doesn't mean you always should.

What was this about and why was it considered bad?

Bad art was it's only sin. People actually like it, it was selling well and it's plot elements were very stable.
What ended it was behind the door deals that were not thought out before the events were agreed too.

Ahahahahahaha!

Inferno was great. The only people who didn't understand it were ones who didn't actually read any of the comics leading up to it and just read the event itself.

It's a major plot point. The followers of an evil snake god kidnapped and hypnotized 7 superheroines, preparing them to be the "wives" (breeding sex slaves) of said snake god. Yes, really.

TIME AND TIME AGAIN

Marvel Comics is run by retards, I'm now convinced that good comics are either a fluke or good writers that once in a while tell editorial to fuck off and manages to write their own shit.

Marvel is the house of shit ideas and I regret the time I wasted reading their shit comics.

You weren't even around to understand just how bad Ultimatum actually is in the timeline of the Ultimate universe.

Another thing that gives non release readers of the Ultimate Universe away is their hate for Miles. Peter's story was slow and slogging in the decompression aspect when read month to month. Many don't know the hell of reading Ultimate spiderman back in the day.

As for Ultimatum, it is the ultimate shit smear on the wall of defecation that is major events. You literally cannot appreciate how much of a disjointed, vapid, insult this piece of work was unless you were there for the event.

Fuck you Inferno was awesome

>The only good thing that happened in Ultimatum was J Jonah Jameson coming around on Spider-man

Wholeheartedly agree. That was a fucking great change. If Ultimatum had been more like that it would have been a fantastic event.

Another thing that was shit was the whole Reed/Namor thing. Just a waste of time.

The event was misnamed for starters, Atlantis is hardly used in the event and is not a driving force. The plot was a lot of open ended questions as to how thing happen like they did, also very desu ex but in reverse.

at least stuff happened in Ultimatum.

A bunch of stuff that killed the Ultimate universe and was awfully written, but stuff.

Civil War 2 literally nothing happens

Heroes Reborn wasn't really an event, unless you count The New 52 as an event.

This was the worst event.

>tfw grew up with Ultimate Universe and watched it ressurect Marvel from the ashes and then be thrown to the wolves

fuck you marvel

>he only people who didn't understand it
Wasn't going that direction at all but the fact the event isn't self contained enough to be understood with out the other info shows the mess it was. Why things unfolded like they did were stupid, not hard to understand but rather felt like the writers were just pulling names and ideas from hat boxes into what they do. Hell it ended with humans just thinking it was just a dream while standing in ruble of New York with dead bodies everywhere.
It was a pretty dumb event.

Inferno was just sweeping shit under the carpet but trying to make it look like that wasn't the case.

I remember reading a cross-over thing about the Octessence as a kid when I had a subscription to the local Spider-Man comic. Like, I remember Iron Man, Xavier and Reed showing up. Was that a proper event, with shit happening outside the Spider-Man comic as well? They never mentioned it since Spider-Man was pretty much the only comic being sold here at that point. If so, was it any good? I remember liking the story, but that might just have been me being amazed at all the heroes actually showing up in my Spider-Man comics.

shameless cash grab absolutely but it doesn't get the title for the worse.

The eighth day was the event and it was just a small blurp that was in 5 books (if they had any creativity it should have been 8 books) Started in Iron man and ended with a one shot Juggernaut book.

>Who really wanted to see Kitty Pryde's adventures in leading the X-men?

Don't you mean a completely different plot thread every issue for about a year before dropping most of them when a new writer came in?

Seriously, Ultimate Comics etc was just limping towards a reboot. It was all phoned in.

But user, now you get your favorite black Spider-Man in the main 616! He's on a #WOKE teenage superhero team too! Aren't you happy?

Civil War II isn't even the worst event Brian Michael Bendis has written.

After Ultimatum how could it do anything else? When you kill all the interesting characters and leave it with mostly b/c listers a brand isn't just going to walk that off.

There were a lot of retarded moments though, like becoming president of the USA, trying to hook up with Dazzler, killing the New Mutants and he just reverses everything he does afterwords like it never happened.

What other big crossover events has he done? I haven't really followed Marvel since the first civil war.
I know he did House of M which in irony has started this demand for big earth shattering events to keep happening every year but I can't think what else.

It was supposed to be "Oh shit, time for the B-teams of the world to step up." Only they fucking sucked too.

Remember America's weird second Civil War in Ultimates? After Sentinels went nuts and Texas became pure evil? How the fuck do you just gloss over that shit?

no

and fuck bendis in the ass for bringing peter back and LITERALLY SAYING he was going to do something with him and LITERALLY SAYING he would appear in Ultimate End.

bendis is a fucking liar and a hack.

Googling that makes it seem like there was actually only five issues with the story moving through the different comics? If so they must have actually put all of the stories into the Spider-Man comic over here. Which, now that I think of it, explains why it suddenly showed Iron Man on an archaeological dig in a spider-man comic to start it off.

For once they seem to have actually made things better when editing the comics for release here. They were usually confusing as fuck, having three different Spider-Man stories, from across his timeline, in one comic.

I feel you user, ultimate Pete was my Spider-Man

But as an established God being that is basically trying to understand humanity it can be seen as justified, poorly written but justified.
>he just reverses everything he does afterwords like it never happened.
Yes but it wasn't like OMD or others where established lore is just torn apart for said reset.
Again it's a bad event but at the end all the heroes were left unscathed and the plot had reason to happen. (not that it should happen just that it wasn't as forced as say CW2)

What about this bullshit?

Ultimatum killed off an entire universe and made it non-functional and started its steep downfall. CWII's biggest sin is that it will be forgotten and discarded yesterday and no one gives a shit about it.

So Ultimatum is still the king of SHIT. Also Bendis at his worst is still >>>> Loeb.

>killing the New Mutants and he just reverses everything he does afterwords like it never happened.
Not really, this heavily affected their storylines. It's what made them leave Xavier's (Magneto's?) to join the Massachusetts Academy.

Bendis is such a cunt. I love that image.

It did tho, but that may actually make Civil War 2 even worse due to the wasted talent.

not an event.

It was bad but more a sign of things to come. Only two died in that event and the outcome was more resolved. It wasn't like Ultimatum where you had no clear understanding why all the events went as they did nor like CWll where the very conflict fixes itself by deus ex at the end thus making the whole story pointless.

Had cross over into other books. FF and Spidey as well. If it doesn't count we need to take half of the lists off.

That start was pure garbage. It was basically a retelling of of issue we saw in other stories told better or about the same but had such a force hardon why things happen like they did.

Had more books tied to it then Atlantis Attacks or Inferno.

>Or the Ultimates with Bombshell and Cloak & Dagger?
That was WAY later tho, inbetween we got The Death of Spider-Man which was great.
The Ultimate Avengers series which except for 3 were fun as fuck.
And above all else we got Hickman's Ultimates which was among the best things every produced by the Ultimate Universe.

>Ultimatum killed off an entire universe and made it non-functional and started its steep downfall
I don't know why people fucking say this, The Ultimates side of the universe went on perfectly fine. And the X-Men did also basically.

Tony was 100% correct. The problem was he acted like a retard about it because MUH RHODEY.

You mean the Hickman run that had it's end ruined when he got replaced as writer mid-story?

Ultimate universe was the hotness back at the turn of the millennium and overshadowed 616. But after Ultimatum, it was just another elseworlds story that most ignored where the only thing of significance ended up being Ultimate Spiderman. Ultimatum destroyed all the momentum of that universe.

The base line argument is that profiling isn't a good thing. Logic should lead to these superpower physics being used to prevent crimes by preparation and planning as well as understanding why they happen. Carol side cannot be seen as right because they are running on basically flashes of info rather than any real breakdown as to why. Tony is right but can't say why because he is crazy over a dead Rhodey and Carol is wrong but has Inhumans on her side which is an autowin at Marvel right now.

Nah, Ultimatum did something impressive, it literally killed an entire comic line, it had such a high kill count of characters that the ultimate universe never recovered. CWII only ruined 2016 and maybe a piece of 2017.

No.
Why would you think that?
Are you stupid?

ultimatum is utter shit paper. As an event, as a comic, as printed work. Somebody got paid for that fucking pig slop.


I mean Countdown, as garbage as that was, didn't take down a universe.

Even if it didn't stick the landing, it was still fucking magnificent for 99% of it.

I agree with those saying Ultimatum was better because it actually had major consequences. It was a true EVENT that everyone remembers clearly and is passionate about. But Civil War 2 will be forgotten in a few months.

forgettable isn't worse than being so bad that it will mark everyone involved for the rest of the mediums history. Actually you want a bad forgettable event over one that still gets brought up ten years later.

Go to bed, Bendis.

Bendis was involved with Ultimatum as well user.

Didn't they retcon Doom's death in the end? I remember it not really making sense with there being blood to begin with, but I gave up reading Ultimate comics after Ultimatum.

Honestly Civil War II was just fucking boring. More or less nothing happened. Most of the tie-ins were super bland. A choice few were terrible, sure, but for the most part they were just filler. That's not good, but it's not Ultimatum-tier by far.

That Age of Ultron bullshit. He had a hand in Avengers vs X-Men also

But the ending soured the whole thing.

Reed doing what he did because of Sue ruins his whole arc.

Battle of the Atom is probably the worst event I can think of in recent years. I didn't mind Bendis' X-Men run overall but this event was just plain retarded as fuck.

Those things wrecked the Ultimate universe to the point where it was effectively dead. Killing characters is one thing, but they seriously killed HALF of the fucking people within the Ultimate Universe with NO plans on bringing them back. Ultimatum was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for that universe.

I mean, I get it, they had a universe wherein death could be the end all be all and if written correctly, could've been superb, but when you kill off most of your cast before you can even bring in legacy characters or don't properly finish a character's arc, you effectively just screwed it over, because now these characters can't even come back and you're left with a dry ass roster of characters to write with.

Ultimatum is worse than CWII for that alone. In CWII only Bruce Banner died, but you at least know he's eventually coming back anyway so it's whatever. CWII was bad because it's actually the extreme opposite of Ultimatum. No major shit happens and it carried on for far too long and really wasn't even that entertaining to read.

Ultimatum was so bad it literally killed the whole line. CW2 just ended with Stark giving himself a comma.

So, CW is so shit it couldn't even win the "shittiest of all time" award.

>Ultimatum wasn't that bad...
Okay, I'm done with this board. This is a new low for you faggots. How about you reread that inept in every single way garbage before saying shit like that?
>HURR MUH CONSEQUENCES ITZ NOT THAT BAD
If you still hold the same shitty opinion after rereading it, there's no helping you.

I've read these. They were terrible and yet I'd rather read them over Civil War II again.

>MUH CHANGE IS GOOD

You fucking idiot, diverting from 616 is not the reason why that was a godawful comic. Can you explain why Magneto randomly forgets that he has magnetic powers? Like the scene with Valkyrie, he fucking lost an arm because he went full retard and tried to clobber her with Mjolnir, then remembered to use his powers on her sword.

I don't even fucking care about most of the Ultimate X-Men getting killed off. It was an incompetently written comic. Nightcrawler being unable to remember he can teleport to safety? Cyclops somehow forgetting to close his eyes when Magneto controls his visor? Multiple Men convieniently exploding when Hank moved himself and them far away from their intended target? How the fuck do people like you even defend this?

Avengers vs X-Men is still my most hated.

IIRC he and Millar were the ones who convinced Loeb to not reboot and show the consequences of a catastrophic superhero event.

He did the following
House of M
Secret Invasion
Dark Reign
Siege
Age of Ultron

He was also one of the writers on Avengers vs X-Men. and if you count them as events, he also wrote Avengers Disassembled and Ultimate End.

Of all those I would say the worst of all those would be Avengers Disassembled, Age of Ultron, Ultimate End, Civil War II, and Avengers vs X-Men. I haven't decided which is the worst one of them, though.

I'd say the one part that CW2 outshines Ultimatum in complete retardedness is how they resolve having Ulysses around; he literally just gets picked up by the embodiment of the cosmos, who i think should be in complete disarray at this time considering it's tied with Happy Galactus, and pulls a poochy and flies off into eternity

Noghing outshines ultimatum in terms of retardness,at least Ulysses was a noghing character,ultimatum was a stupid poorly written blood bath

What they all have in common is they make very little sense.

Civil War II was pointless and nothing happened but Ultimatum was the true pinnacle of edgeshit. You have to be attempting satire and failing to make something as bad as Ultimatum.

that doesnt sound too bad as a plot, whats wrong with it?

Eh...the thing with most of the older crossovers like Atlantis Attacks is that they barely impacted other books. You could ignore them. Current Marvel has made all their crossovers dictate the regular book's stories. You can't read an Avengers book without reading Civil War II. That alone makes CW II worse.

IvX is allready worse