So, what was the fucking point of this death?

So, what was the fucking point of this death?

Nothing.
Like all of CWII.

What was the point of Superman's Death?
Of Batman's?
Or Captain America's?

To generate a little bit of drama, bump sales, maybe fug aroud with some weird legacy characters. That's what Big Two character death means.

To give Clint some forced drama for his new ongoing which will probably last less than 10 issues. Ditto for She-Hulk err I mean "Hulk".

>What was the point of Superman's Death?
>Of Batman's?
>Or Captain America's?
Technically, none of them died...

So you think Banner will be dead 12 months down the road?
Please.
He'll be up and dicking around in comics before Thor: Ragnarok, if not sooner. He's a Hulk, they don't die.

>To generate a little bit of drama,

Which got undercut by the unexplained reappearance of Doc Samson. And even more so later on with the future vision of the Old Man Logan timeline.

>bump sales,

That did get accomplished. On the other hand there was absolutely no demand for that issue on the back issue market like with Superman's death or Captain America's death. It was like people only talked about it for a few days and moved on.

>maybe fug aroud with some weird legacy characters.

But they already had Cho as Hulk before Civil War II even started.

Idk dude. They way Marvel has been lateley, they'll probably just have a Thor CHulk team up.

Why is Banner strongest there is, borderline literally invincible, and all the other hulk's are just generic bruisers?

>And even more so later on with the future vision of the Old Man Logan timeline.


>He takes future vision stories seriously
>He takes X-MEN future vision stories seriously.

Is this a thread full of 10 yr olds?

Hulk was expendable since Marvel doesn't have absolute control over his movie license. It's also the reason Namor isn't mentioned to be added to the MCU. His movies don't sell, so they just need him for the big events. Once Infinity War starts, they'll bring him back.

Why does Batman get to beat up Darkseid but none of his legacy wards?

Isn't it because the others still retain their higher brain functions? Like Savage Hulk is just pure power.

Hulk co-stars in the next Thor movie, this very year.

Because he's the goddamn Batman.

What would happen after this if Batman and some other DC (not kill no matter what) characters were in Marvel?

You mong, the point is that its inclusion negated any drama Banner's "death" would have and vice versa. Either the vision comes true (which it won't, but Bendis deliberately wrote it to make it sound like it was coming true) and it means Hulk isn't dead, negating the drama from Banner's death....... Or Banner stays dead (which won't happen) and it negates any point of including Old Man Logan as a future timeline.

>And even more so later on with the future vision of the Old Man Logan timeline.
And then the last issue also had a future vision of Age of Ultron with both Wolverine and Hulk in it.

If anyone clever was involved they would say that Clint and Bruce's plan was to fake his death and the Anti-Hulk arrow was meant to sent him to the Microverse where he keeps his normal mind when he turns into The Hulk.

Shitting on Clint character, setting him as a pariah between his mates for a while.

Letting HydraCap be seem as scheming for his event.

And giving Cho something for what grief.

Hey, I liked the first two issues of OA: classic short cape story, easy to read. I hope it lasts at least 12# issues.

Well at this point, it seem to be to give Jen ANGST.

Why does every think Bruce will comeback this year?

Are you referring to BnR where he used a suit forged by the rest of the Justice League and he managed to almost tickle him? It also nearly killed Batman.

I certainly hope that's not what you're talking about.

A FUCKING HULK ARROW

To prove Bendis is a hack, but didn't work, they still hire him

I thought Banner hadn't been Hulk for a fucking while, why kill him? It's like you go and kill Isaiah because Captain America is going to do something bad in the future

To demonstrate that Carol makes terrible decisions and Clint has terrible arrow discipline.

The characters in CW2 are so unlikable that it's impossible to generate drama and bump sales. Kamala is actually tanking in the sales because she was dragged into this mess.

Why did they even make a Civil War 2?

Because there was a Captain America: Civil War film out.

Because he's Hulk aka the strongest there is.

They'll dig up his grave because Jen is having visions or some shit linked to her increased hulk aggro and it'll be empty. They'll trial Bruce back to one of his old underground labs and it'll turn out it was all planned so he could escape the world or some shit.

there was mention of a mummy or bandage hulk

>Cho gets his own ongoing, Champions, and now he's busy ruining GR too
Did Doc Green depower Lyra? Why isn't she getting any play? Especially since Jen is currently going by just Hulk so we don't have a She Hulk right now.

He ain't totally awesome enough.

wasn't she still in that hell dimension? the one she conquered and turned into her own females in power queendom.

and with lyra her hulk form was her normal form, the only reason she had a human form later was because of banner making a device that allowed her to assume a human form.

An illustration of how preventive justce can go too far and lead to death of an innocent.

Uneccisary drama to artificially heighten the stakes.

>epic super event! Hulk dead! Buy now so you can say you saw it happen here!

You know, if I was a superhero in the Marvel universe...I think I would just quit. Look at this moment. Look at it right here. This is, what, the eightieth hero vs. hero event since Civil War? The civilians cheered on the woman whose incompetence led to two other heroes dying and one of the oldest and longest standing heroes on the planet getting put into a coma. And for what? A program that, if used incorrectly, would have people arrested for crimes they didn't even do yet based on the word of a man who was proven to be capable of being wrong. Hell, we might already have one supervillain in training right now who came about only because of Carol's actions. And yet the people cheer her on. Yay dead Hulk, yay predicative justice, YAAS QUEEN SLAY!

If I were a hero there, I would quit. What is the point in this universe anymore? Who are you protecting? Who is even a hero anymore? These aren't flawed characters doing the right thing. They're assholes. They're all assholes. This is all Marvel is now. The company of incompetents or assholes.

Does Marvel even use their villains anymore?

She's a woman though. That makes her more rational and right than those dumb, brute WHITE men.

Yes, the vast majority of stories are still about heroes fighting villains. It's just that hero vs hero stories tend to be events and thus attract more attention.
At least the next event will be heroes vs giant monsters.

If I ever get into writing for comics, at this point even if Marvel gave me a writing job with no strings attached, I'd refuse it out of personal principle.

I refuse to work in a company that has no creative integrity anymore, unless it involves niche books given to writers so they'll be out of the way of Bendis' mentally-disabled shit-scribblings whenever the bimonthly event comes around.

I think if there had been a single storyline throughout Civil War 2 headed by a single villain it might have helped out a great deal. Not to say I wanted it to be like this story, but remember DC's Armageddon 2001? Some hero was going to turn into a universal tyrant and the other heroes had to figure out who it was going to be in order to change the future. If they had established that there was one big thing everything was building towards, headed by an actual villain and possibly involving some other hero that they had to figure out who it would be from the visions, that would have been a better story. Instead we just had eight issues of people bitch about whether arresting someone for a crime they didn't commit yet based on the predictions of a guy who was shown to be wrong sometimes was a good idea or not.

No. Turns out, no. Simple answer. What the fuck was the point of the rest of the story? Like, even Civil War I had a point to both arguments and no simple yes or no. You could argue how both sides were implementing their ideas, but each side did have a valid point. And I think this might be the worst thing about Civil War II. It leaves me saying that Civil War I wasn't that bad. That is some fuck right there.

No offense, but you sound like those whiny liberals that said they would leave the country if Trump was elected and ave lost faither in the American people because of it.

Give me one hero worth standing next to in Marvel right now. One. Just one. Spider-Man? Sold his wife to the devil. Cap? Hydra-Nazi, and he way overstepped his boundaries in both Civil War I and AVX. Cyclops? Lets just completely throw out all the mutant and Inhuman teams as the Inhumans won't let the world deal with their giant poison gas cloud and the X-Men have been acting like such whiny bitches for the past few years that they kinda deserve whatever happens to them now.

I'm really, honestly trying to think of someone who could actually be called a hero in the Marvel universe right now. All they have are amoral psychopaths or poorly written whiny SJW bullcrap characters. Even Kamala, my last bastion of thinking Marvel could actually come up with new and decent and fun characters has been ruined by this Civil War bullshit. So if there is anything worth saving from Marvel right now, please, tell me what it is. I would love to hear about it.

That's now what that user was saying anyway but you just had to sperg out.

>poorly written whiny SJW bullcrap characters
So just because they hold progressive views that means they can't be heroes?

Spidey is pretty much the only pure bearted hero left. I just pretend OMD never happened since he wasn't even acting in character anyway

I haven't been keeping up with this, She-Hulk hasn't assumed Hulk's name, has she?

No, you generalizing fuck, it's because they're characters not written as characters with problems or personalities, they're written as soapboxes for the writers to prop themselves up on, for their shitty beliefs.

Imagine how you'd feel if Green Arrow, as a character with an established canon of being a pro-Socialist superhero, suddenly began to dress in KKK robes and spouted racist rhetoric.

>Imagine how you'd feel if Green Arrow, as a character with an established canon of being a pro-Socialist superhero, suddenly began to dress in KKK robes and spouted racist rhetoric.
Sam Wilson has always been a lefty, I can't think of any "liberal" character in Marvel that wasn't always like that or a new character.

She hasn't in universe. But her ongoing is simply titled Hulk because currently the trauma she's going through is causing her to have classic Hulk anger induced uncontrollable transformations, rather than her totally voluntary and in control she hulk transformations.

No, Marvel Villains are busy trying to run semi-legit businesses to fund their plans for world domination. Many of them are just standing back and watch the Marvel Heroes kill themselves in petty squabbles.

>Spider-Man? Sold his wife to the devil.
She was literally more involved in the deal than he was

Same user as . Sam Wilson's alright with me, and I like him as a liberal-leaning character, I just wish that his Cap book wasn't derailed by Bendis events every two months. Same with the other Marvel legacies. I don't dislike the characters, nor do I dislike most of the executions, but it feels like we really only have the solo series as breaks between events.

I really can't think of anything remarkable about his run because he hasn't done much to stand out. Then again... Same with Bucky when he was Cap. Good character, it makes sense that he and Sam became Cap at different points, but there never are any good moments to cement their characters.

Fuck no. Ollie Queen is great as Green Arrow. Cap, when written right, is old school Roosevelt Democrat. Hell, the X-Men are basically a stand in for minorities fighting to get the basic human respect they deserve.

But let us look at current Marvel. Carol Danvers is proclaimed to be the greatest hero in the Marvel Universe, despite the fact that most of the hero community hates her, her entire tactic during Civil War II was wrong and her own book's sales are consistently terrible. Jane Foster Thor...literally, tell me what this character is without using the words "female" or "cancer." What differentiates her from actual Thor? And we still don't even know why the real Thor is unworthy! What makes Jane worthy other than "Is woman, has cancer?" Its weird that, other than the main character, the rest of the current Thor book is pretty good. While on the subject of Thor stuff, look at what they did with Angela. It was a pretty interesting idea, however *UNSOLICITED OPINIONS ABOUT ISRAEL.*

Mockingbird? Terribly written, and apparently I'm supposed to talk about tampons? Also, Phantom Rider wasn't a rapist but it was still okay for him to be murdered? Squirrel Girl? Have you seen that art? Hellcat? Again, have you seen that art? Iceman's gay, but he didn't want to tell anyone, but hey, reading minds and forcing secrets out is okay if you mean well! Nevermind that it goes against decades worth of internal monologues from the character himself, we're being progressive here! And we have two completely flawless young teen black female geniuses taking over the roles of straight white male characters. TWO! At once! And don't even get me started on Miles Morales, or as I like to call him, NoCharacter McVenomBlast.

You want good diversity characters? Good liberal characters? Not to turn this into a company war thing, but look at DC. Batwoman. Apollo and Midnighter. Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz. Jaime Reyes. The entirety of the Milestone lineup. Those are good.

>tfw the Red Skull looks more and more right every week

And then Spider Man got his wife back in Renew Your Vows because he remember all the mind blowing sex he had with Mary Jane

>tfw tie in team up bullshit is ruining Marvel's only good remaining ethnic teen hero

am I the only one who thinks this iteration of ghost Rider would look good with some really minor horns growing from the skull?

>I'm really, honestly trying to think of someone who could actually be called a hero in the Marvel universe right now.
Deadpool?

My headcanon's that Jean Grey just really wants a gay friend so she can faghag it up. Like -really- wants a gay bestie no matter what.

If they wanted Bobby to be LGBT, making him a bisexual who really just wants a good romantic relationship would be a good move, but that'd make gays and lesbians shriek about him being "fake gay" and straight people would be just as weirded out.

Miles would be SO great, if Bendis had the brains to actually make Miles stand out instead of just getting the leftovers of Ult Peter's supporting cast.

And, yeah. I really don't get why SJWtards shriek about DC being racist. Steel. Amazing Man. El Diablo. Fire from Fire/Ice. Bloodwynd. Mr. Terrific. DC has had tons of fantastic minority heroes, they just don't treat minority characters as check marks on a list, or -FORCE- people to like them, like Marvel's been doing.

The heroes of the Marvel Universe can be progressive, it's just that very few of them fit in with SJW. Captain America is supposed to be Theodore Roosevelt imagined as a superhero, the X Men fit better with the Civil Rights Era.

I like to think that DC has an awesome super science department which allows minorities to enroll and improve themselves along with their community.

If you've read the Hulk comics over the past few years there's like 3 different ways for Banner to get out of that and it's already printed and ready to point to, like the time they used Stark's Extremis to fix Banner.

And yes, everything's screwed up. Characters are replaced by brand new characters. They could have at least declared that they were on vacation. But I guess that you have to really convincingly fake your death if you want to hit the beach, when you're a Marvel property (or employee.) They're probably relaxing at an Xavier-owned beach house.

>Batwoman

So you just want more minority rip-offs of established characters, whose defining character trait is either their gender, color, or sexuality?

>I'm really, honestly trying to think of someone who could actually be called a hero in the Marvel universe right now.
I vote Moon Kight! He's the only rational choice! You know things have gotten out of control when it's down to Dr Strange, Namor, or Moon Knight for "most heroic current character".
Select all images with sushi.

Here's one big difference between Marvel and DC. When Kamala was first being brought out I remember the fanfare. Everyone was talking about her. Oh, here was a teen hero GIRL character! And a MUSLIM character! A teen GIRL MUSLIM! She's the most MUSLIMY MUSLIM to ever MUSLIM! Isn't she progressive and cool and hip?! She writes fanfic and is quirky and MUSLIM! Please love me daddy! I swear to God, I almost never gave her a chance just because of how obnoxious their marketing was. Shockingly, she was a good character, but most of that I think comes from her writer actually being a Muslim and just writing her like a normal person because to her being Muslim was just a part of life and not a huge deal.

Now look at Simon Baz. A Muslim Green Lantern whose family was directly affected by 9/11. I think I read, maybe, one article about him. DC didn't go out honking like seals trying to do tricks like Marvel did. They just let the guy and his story speak for itself. They let the character sell the character. And it worked. In fact, I don't think I've read a single article about how Earth's two official Green Lanterns right now are a Muslim man and a Hispanic woman, but I bet I could find articles in the double digits talking about how progressive the Champions lineup is.

And that's the point. Marvel doesn't write stories. They make progressive characters because they want PC Good Boy Points. And when they do actually try to tell stories, like with Civil War II where they seem utterly and truly confused as to why nobody likes their main character, you can see that they are truly crap at it.

How long did it take to get a new Watcher up and running?

I didn't read the arc. This picture just reeked of thoughtless tryharding.

If you read Batwoman and only come away with the fact that she is a lesbian, then I don't think you read her book correctly.

But let's say it is a bad book. Let's say I agree with your evaluation of the character. Still, compare it with Mockinbird or Thor or Angela or Hellcat or Squirrel Girl and tell me it still isn't lightyears ahead of any one of them.

They got Original Nick Fury chained up on the moon being the watcher. They also got The Orb wandering around in a magic taxi cab watching all the bad things that happen. It sounds like one of those horror comics like the EC comic's Cryptkeeper or Elvira or something. If they ever do that I think it'd be pretty good. A comic with 4 or 5 short stories with a bloody ending. Throw in a Marvel Zombies story for good measure.

This.

The only heroes worth fighting with in Marvel right now are either those battling crime on a small scale like Kamala, or those that have been kicked out of the official Avengers-approved superfriends club, like Cyclops.

Shit, I would legitimately rather be on the same team as Magneto than Carol or Cap or whoever.

I would be absolutely livid at the notion that Carol can just get away with throwing one of Earth's mightiest heroes into a coma in the pursuit of some Orwellian nightmare she really liked the sound of. Hell, I'd probably end up sparking another stupid hero vs hero event in my attempt to murder her on my way out of the circus. CAROL WAR! Coming soon, the next big event that will strain tensions and break friendships but not really because we don't actually want any real consequences for anything!

In a few years something completely unrelated will occur, sparking CAROL WARS 2. It won't even have Carol in it, it'll just be called that because the first event sold well to retards.

Fuck man. Now I want Robbie to fight The Orb while the two stand on top of their cars neck in neck.

What villains? All of Marvel's villains are right: Magneto, Doom, even guys like Galactus are forces of nature beyond morality.

For the really bad dudes like Ultron and shit, it looks like the best way to beat them is more Hero v hero shit, like the time Wolvering killed Pym to stop Ultron or whatever

Here's something that always bothered me about this story. Why did the Watcher's eyes have all that information? Wouldn't it be in his brain? Yeah, the eyes saw it, but still, they're just eyes. Its like saying you need the information that a camera saw, so you steal the lens.

Daredevil
Moon Knight
Ghost Rider
Miles Spider-Man
Doctor Strange

And Marvel has always been about fucked up people trying to be heroic.

These aren't just fucked up people trying to be heroic anymore. Spider-Man, when he first started, was an angry teen who lashed out at every chance he got because of all the abuse he had suffered combined with the new power he had. He was flawed, but you could see he was still trying to do the right thing.

This year? That same character literally was on the side of someone who wanted to lock people up because of someone saying that they might do something awful in the future. They stayed on that side after watching the ill effects of such a philosophy caused a longstanding hero to murder another one in cold blood. That isn't just being a flawed hero. That is stupidity at best, callous ignorance of the consequences of your actions at worst.

Also, I like how all the comics you listed have super small fan bases. So basically, your only hope as a Marvel hero is being so small time that Marvel doesn't even care about you and, through their ignorance, allows you to be good. So. Good. Great. What's the fucking point then?

To show Mark Ruffalo he's replaceable

>Batwoman
>Apollo
>Simon Baz
Batwoman's rarely been good, Apollo is the blandest Not-Superman in existence, and Baz was generally considered the worst Green Lantern until Rebirth.
The best diverse/legacy characters are the ones that actually offer something new. Kamala, Robbie Reyes, Chulk; they're infinitely better than Jane or Miles because they stand on their own as characters.

>Steel. Amazing Man. El Diablo. Fire from Fire/Ice. Bloodwynd. Mr. Terrific.
When were any of them last actually relevant, though?

>actually offer something new. Kamala, Robbie Reyes, Chulk

>implying all those Marvel minorities are relevant at all

Aside from the name Robbie has nothing in common with Danny or Johnny, and he's been refreshingly responsible and independent for a teen hero.

They're in comics. Maybe not good or interesting comics, but you don't get to say how great and diverse DC is by naming a bunch of characters that haven't been seen since Rebirth.

I never said her book was bad, vastly overrated by lezfags yes, but the art was incredible and made it worth reading. If it weren't for her homosexuality and the Bat-symbol on her chest nobody would give two shits about the character.

Oh no, they killed Chuck!

Pity that the writing and the art suck so much.

>if they're in comics, they're relevant
Starting 2017 with a dumb argument, huh?

I've noticed less and less fanfare/outrage from the fan communities regarding character deaths over the last 2+ decades.

When a character died in the 60's, 70's or even 80's fans were shocked, outraged, saddened but most importantly (from an industry perspective) they were reacting! Good or bad they were buying comics to see where things were going.

After the gimmick Superman death, the (literal) bus load of young mutants and flagrant Titan murders...I just don't care anymore.

Remember when Marvel killed off their oldest comic character in a pointless attention grab for Squadron Supreme #1? I don't remember any significant outrage over Namor's unceremonious death. Then the book failed and Namor showed up again anyway...again without any significant fanfare.

If the creators don't care then why should I? Hulk will be back, Thor will be worthy, Cap will defeat Hydra, Iron Man will wake up, etc. Hopefully these stupid pleas for attention will continue to return lesser and lesser rewards...maybe then they'll try to write captivating stories, rather than gimmicky deaths/pallet swaps/genital roulette

Will deaths in the big two ever be more meaningful than Uncle Ben, or Captain Marvel? Can they not resist the urge to use them as cheap tricks to boost sales for an issue or two, and bring them back almost immediately?

How long before they bring back Mettle? They haven't yet, have they? Don't get me wrong, not saying his death was meaningful at all. Just curious.

Bendis wanted to make a #BlackLivesMatter analogy. Banner would be the unarmed black person who is shot by a cop (Hawkeye) without doing anything really wrong. Bendis and his fans think he's being socially aware or something and in their minds you're probably a racist if you think that's stupid. That's pretty much it, I think.

Unfortunately, it seems the older the character the quicker they're brought back. Since Mettle was created when these writers were already adults they simply don't care about him.

Eventually, some new writer will come along, consolidate power, and then resurrect all of their favorite dead characters...while killing a new generation of characters introduced between 2020 - 2030.

There're still heroic individuals out there in the Marvel Universe that do their best to not fuck up things more. It's just they're B to D listers. Say, for example, Iron FIst and Power Man, the people in Champions, the people in New Avengers, the people even in Uncanny Avengers, the New Warriors, wherever they are, and FalconCap, I think (I don't read that book).

In any case, it's interesting to see how a neutral or law good characters fuck ups stuff of goes neutral or even evil for a given reason, for a long time of period with lasting consequences. I'm a hawkeye fan and I'm starting to like the opportunities for good stories that his current status could bring in the right hands, with an actual editorial plan for him. A pity it probably isn't going to go anywhere.

1: post previous page

2: 4th panel shows lower chest shot from behind. wtf? Thought it was a head shot.

Is there any way Marvel can get better in 2017?

Clearly, the events over the last 5 years were the worst we've ever had.

It makes me sad that this is a thing that happens. To be fair, I don't think Mettle should have been killed, or at least not in the way he was, and in the book it happened in. Why can't they just write good stories with real stakes? I don't know, I guess I really just want most cape books to be more like Astro City.

A man that, when angered, turns into a viscous monster (and has been responsible for a slew of criminal acts) is executed by an authority figure. Said execution is based on a very valid concern that they were about to commit a crime yet again and the authority figure is found not guilty...

Is Bendis a secret Trump supporter or just an incompetent hack?

Not sure why you had such a hard time finding it OP.

> What was the point in Wanda going cray cray?
> What was the point in Hawkeye becoming a ninja?
> What was the point in She-Hulk dying but not dying?
> What was the point in Tony dying but not dying?

Because Bendis.

>Is Bendis a secret Trump supporter

Considering that Bendis tweeted something like; 'What am I going to tell my black daughter why the people of this country voted in a racist" I don't think he's a fan.

> Bendis is a leftist ruining Marvel.
> Ike is a rightist ruining Marvel.

There's a lesson in there somewhere...

>She Hulk is hurt. Doctors aren't experts on gamma radiation and we can't find Banner.
>Ulysses Has a Vision
>Everyone appears outside of Banner's lab to witness him die.