Was it ethical?

Was it ethical?

Yes.

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Dunno why don't you ask Zod's snapped neck?

Tell that to Zod's snapped neck

obviously yes, but the real question is why did he need to throw him through a bunch of skyscrapers for an hour first

Where'd you learn ethics?

It was mostly Zod throwing him around. In fact Zod was dominating that fight all the way from start to finish, until Clark gets lucky and lands behind Zod after the satellite crash. There's even a scene where Clark attempts to punch Zod outside the city but Zod keeps bring him back to the center.

Have a look at the headlock here.

>I am Nelson Casper VAN ALDEN! And I am a sworn agent of the United States Treasury! And I swear by our LORD Jesus Christ, justice will reign down upon you, if it’s the last— *snaps neck*
Superman killed a prohibition agent with no mercy

ok but why, crashing through metal is like tissue paper to them

Zod was shocked when Superman came up behind him and Zod could feel his erection on his backside giving Superman the opportunity he has been waiting for to snap Zod's neck.

>that retarded family that couldn't move out of the way

>crashing through metal is like tissue paper to them
same reason it hurts more if I hit you with a rolled up newspaper tan if I hit you with a tree branch of the same size.

Killing one to save the earth

Utilitarianism at its finest fuck zynder

>be Zod
>discover a planet that gives your race superpowers
>also discover that someone of your race lived on said planet for decades with no adverse effects on him
>he also holds the secret of reviving your race
>"Alright, what is the best way of doing this? Oh I know"
>threaten the dude
>try to terraform the planet so it doesn't give you superpowers anymore
I guess Zod was just retarded and Superman, being the hero he is, killed him so he doesn't father any retarded children.
I mean what stopped Zod from terraforming Mars except the race of superstrong mindreading martians whose only weakness is fire? But keep in mind, they didn't establish any of the DCEU yet and Martian Manhunter is probably never going to appear

do you not know what a switch is ?

they're all dead anyway.

I think extracting the codec from Clark will kill him? Also he chooses Earth because it's already a fertile and healthy planet. "The foundation for Krypton must be built on something". The implication being that Earth was fertile enough for Krypton.

Not my point, you fucking retard.

To be fair Zod could've just tilted his head a little if they tried to run

absolutley fucking retarded

everything has to be so grimdark to these hollywood chuds these days because making a compelling story without ruining the character with edgy darkness is impossible to them. even making superman a murderer didnt make this a good movie

No, its necessary

I don't think it would kill him. I am not sure about this but his father said something about the Codex being in his blood.
Also, i think the terraforming machine turned earth athmosphere into something else. So have fun with having a fertile planet. Might as well go to mars and try it there. Or even better, stay on Earth.

>have laser vision eyes
>can see bystanders you want to laser
>somehow I can't actually look at them by just moving my eyes because someone is holding my neck

never understood this

Why couldn't Zod decide to terraform Venus or Mars?

And then what? What happens if Superman allows more people to die? To what end is he supposed to play the altruist? How many more lives?

Snyder's Superman isn't fucking edgy. He's actually reasonable and far more prudent than the comic iterations where superheroes allow millions to die because "if I kill him I'll be just as bad!1!" It's just an excuse to sell more comics you nigger. Stop pretend it's some sort of holy morals you've been exposed to. They have to make Superman act like a retarded nanny every time so they can push the same villains over and over again.

you actually think paper hurts more than solid wood and I'm the retard? Have you never been hit in your life?

whoa

To everyone bitching about him killing him: what alternative was there? Zod clearly said that he wouldn't stop. There are no prisons on Earth that could hold him.

What could Clark do other than kill him? He killed him to save billions of lives. It is a choice that makes perfect sense in the context of the story and everything else would be a cop-out.

Just emotionally but I still suffer from PTSD. Stepdaddy never could accept my "lifestyle" i.e. gargling wholesale cock

Honestly that may be the only thing wrong with the movie. Man of Steel was fucking great.

Every time they laser vision someone, they follow it with their heads. Superman does it too when he melts steel beam being flung at him. Maybe the heat vision locks the eyes or something. But from what I can remember they're atleast consistent with the head moving being a necessary part of it.

This. At no point did Zod ever come off as anything but 100% sincere. My guess is this is just another "Martha," albeit less retarded. Just a convenient go-to excuse to validate the groupthink that it's somehow a bad movie

Zod was a geniune extremist. He was fucking bred to defend Krypton. He was genetically unable to do otherwise but keep fight. And when Clark destroys his ship, he completely snaps and makes it his life goal to destroy Earth with Krypton. The guy was simply not capable of stopping. The argument of "inner redemption" simply cannot be applied to someone who was genetically engineered as a fixed role in society.

Superman who was a fucking farm boy with avg human training vs a military general who lived and trained longer. Clark took years to learn his power and zod did that in a fucking day. If your old superman faced this zod then he would have his ass kicked. This zod would stop at nothing and wouldn’t even surrender. Watch the movie and accept this new mythology.

>"There's only one way this ends, Kal... Either you die, or I do."
>"I'm going to make them suffer, Kal. These humans you've adopted, I will take them all from you one by one."
>"If you love these people so much, you can mourn for them!"
>"And not a day goes by that it does not haunt me. But if I had to do it again I would. I have a duty to my people, and I will not allow anyone to prevent me from carrying it out!"
>"Look at this. We could have built a new Krypton in this squalor, but you chose the humans over us. I exist only to protect Krypton. That is the sole purpose for which I was born. And every action I take, no matter how violent or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people. And now... I have no people. My soul, that is what you have taken from me!"

Goddamit. This movie has such great dialogue. Zod is legitimately my favorite villain out of any of these movies

...

Maybe, but Shannon's performance is what really sold it.

That's what I mean. Shannon's Zod. Such a fleshed out, 3 dimensional character who's struggle can be understood and almost sympathized with. We just don't get these types of "villains" anymore.
>"Look at this. We could have built a new Krypton in this squalor, but you chose the humans over us. I exist only to protect Krypton. That is the sole purpose for which I was born. And every action I take, no matter how violent or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people. And now... I have no people. My soul, that is what you have taken from me!"
This line alone is almost heart-wrenching and explains Zod to his core. Trim a few aspects of this movie (less Lois, less product placement, a bit more Smallville content) and it's damn near a perfect film.

calle

>tweak the Pa Kent dynamic and make him less of an ignorant idiot
Adding this but I agree
MOS didn't deserve the hate it got

Because Zod isn't trying to kill Superman as much as punish him. The entire reason to fuck with the humans is to punish him for being a traitor

>left: i don't want to do that so i won't because i am omnipotent
>right: i don't want to do that but i might be forced to do so because i am not powerful enough to stop everything

>it's grimdark for the good guy to kill a mass murderer or despot

What the fuck is wrong with comicnerds?

this
why didn't he just use his breath to rebuild the great wall of china or fly around the earth 100000 times and make zod go away.

It was obviously ethical. The issue people have is that Superman is supposed to be above it. Superman can't be made "gritty" because he fundamentally represents something completely different. You can make his character more complex but the second you try to show him as someone having to make hard choices like this it ruins what exactly makes Superman Superman. This is more like a situation youd put someone like Batman in

The problem with this rhetoric is that it's somehow impossible for Superman to end up in a scenario like this. As if reality itself would suddenly start to bend itself to the Superman character. I think the film is making a point that Superman can exist in a world where tough decisions actually exist. Nobody can say he did wrong here. Superman becomes more meaningful when he shows an ability to actually deal with these issues. And what people have issues with this? A tiny irrelevant minority of comic-book puritans who suddenly forgot that cinema as rule takes liberties with its adaptions?

>A tiny irrelevant minority of comic-book puritans

yes, this is exactly why everyone hails man of steel as a masterpiece and gives a fuck about it like nolans film- oh wait

1, When did I say MoS was hailed by everyone? I said whatever issue people had with the film was not Superman killing Zod. Most people agreed with it.

2, Nolan's Batman killed more people than Snyder's Superman.

>Was it ethical to kill the alien invader who planned to genocide the entire human race and whom no prison on earth could ever hold?

Of fucking course! What else was he supposed to do with him?

Break the fourth wall and tell the animator to draw a different ending like he's in an episode of Loony Tunes!

>2, Nolan's Batman killed more people than Snyder's Superman.

yes, because it doesnt fundamentally fuck his character. Also nolans batman only "kills" Harvey Dent and that was the definition of a hard choice that fit the character, causing him to give up being batman. Man of Steel was shit and then it had an uncharacteristic superman on top that didnt do justice to the character

You must be new to comic book film discussions. Welcome. You won't enjoy your stay.

Nolan's Batman also killed Ra's Al Ghul. And he was seemingly indifferent to Catwoman blasting Bane to hell. It's funny you'd expect a person who values the no kill rule so hard he'd be a little more upset that Catwoman just breaks the wall with his bike, fires his guns and then makes a snide comment about it.

Just fucking accept that Nolan's Batman was good for other reasons than "muh kill rule". Most people don't give a shit about that virgin comic book crap.

more importantly: was it rape?

>people still comparing the Snyderverse Superman to his comic counterpart
>they have no complaints with the washed up Marvel versions
why do people still do that and why can't the finally accept that this is a revamped more modern version of the movie Superman ? His powers are toned down massively and the world he is brought up in is more realistic than anything the comic offer. Marvel did it too and made all their characters walking quips with no resemblance or weight of their comic counterparts and they just blatantly accept it.
also
>banishing someone in the Phantom Zone to forever watch the world in a state of incorporeal ageless beings
>better

>Nolan's Batman also killed Ra's Al Ghul.

maybe if youre a brainlet plebeian. Ra's al ghul was going to kill himself and take the wayne towers with him. Batman only saved the towers and then himself

>It's funny you'd expect a person who values the no kill rule

Except that its well established at that point that Batman is willing to overlook it in situations where its the only choice. In reality Batman would probably be legally able to kill most of his adversaries in self defense

>Just fucking accept that Nolan's Batman was good for other reasons than "muh kill rule"

Where did I claim otherwise you fucking retard? Most if not all incarnations of Batman avoid killing themselves but its not taken to the extreme that people have deluded themselves into thinking just because killing is an absolute no in his cartoons. Practically every single one of his more high profile graphic novels involves him either killing or fatally injuring his enemies. I dont want to bring up the obvious the dark knight returns examples so just read A serious house on serious earth, a piece where he kicks clayfaces leg off, throws doom down the stairs face first and tells a doctor to kill a guy who is about to kill batman himself

>Except that its well established at that point that Batman is willing to overlook it in situations where its the only choice.
But this is not ok when Superman is presented with situations where death is the only choice? Ok! Nice cognitive dissonance buddy.

Are you really this retarded? Batmans no kill rule is only a huge part of his character in CARTOONS

Meanwhile supermans entire character is built on being the ultimate paragon of goodness and justice who is infallible to the failings of normal men

Trying to force Superman into your retarded "durr he is for adults now" box simply doesnt work without ruining the one thing his character actually had. Now he is just an indescribably boringly overpowered stonefaced man that has nothing over the actually interesting heroes. Superman is a relic and trying to "modernize" him by making his stories gritty only ruins him

>breaking up established concepts is BAD
>waaaah why won't they give me what I want
there is enough of that stuff and better done than any movie ever could like All Star Superman. Don't be so to something new especially in another media.

What the fuck are you even on about you mongrel? A no kill rule is definitely more important to Batman than Superman. Nobody is as upset about this as you are. A total fuckwad who ignores all context given to Superman's decision so he can sperg about it like the fucking nerd virgin he is.

>Superman should remain muh irrelevant cartoon character because I say so
Go suck a fat one.

>A no kill rule is definitely more important to Batman than Superman.

in media aimed exclusively at children, aka batmans own and crossover cartoons

> Nobody is as upset about this as you are.

about what you fucking retard? this is the whole threads point, the movie was shit and the scene didnt improve it in any way, only served to make people hate this incarnation of superman. making him kill zod doesnt make him more interesting

except that he is irrelevant. the majority thinks exactly what I think which is that he is more irrelevant than ever, nobody gives a fuck about snyders superman because he has all of the flaws that superman has like his overly bullshit powerset but then he also ruins the actually interesting aspect of superman in a misguided attempt to pander to the neckbeards like you who are still too young to realize that making something grittier doesnt actually make it more adult by default

I honestly don't think you can comprehend more than Marvel quipbots. Stick to your kids capeshit. Real men know what a hard choice Clark made and why it makes perfect sense and he was more than morally justified in doing so. The most embarrassing part is you pretending to care about a superhero character that has changed from decade to decade in every way possible.

>Clark made and why it makes perfect sense and he was more than morally justified in doing so.

where did I claim otherwise you fucking retarded autist? I said that it doesnt contribute to the character in a positive way and certainly doesnt fix his shitty movie

>waaah why is muh supahman not quipping and doing time reversal tricks waah why does he have to make actual choices in this film waah waah

>it makes complete sense and it also makes Superman more realistic and relatable as a human being BUT WHY DID SNYDER DO THIS WHYYYYY
A though mystery this one

>it makes complete sense and it also makes Superman more realistic and relatable as a human being BUT WHY DID SNYDER DO THIS WHYYYYY

It doesnt make him relatable in the slightest, the only thing that has ever been relatable about superman is his life as clark kent. I see now that Im talking to some 20 something neckbeard who is desperately trying to justify actually liking Superman as an adult by using the excuse that he is now "relatable and for adults since he has to make hard choices". Go fuck yourself autist. Snyder did it because he is unironically a hack who thought that if Superman killed one of his enemies it would make people think that superman is cool again

>virgin neckbeard doing the old no u switcheroo
Let me explain this to you, and I will only explain this to you once.

Superman is the ideal superhero. He's the shining beacon for other superheroes. Why is Zod's death so important for this? It means that Superman has been to the worst of it. He's dealt with the most difficult choices with being a superhero and came out the better man from it. This is what makes him an ideal to strive towards in. He is not above the moral decisions a superhero would naturally come to struggle with. He's been there. He's gone down that road aswell and he has provided a path for other heroes to follow. That path isn't "morality is binary". No. That path is "morality is various shades of grey that you must carefully wage against one each other".

This is the final part of the birth of Superman - his sacrifice of boyhood and initializing of proper manhood. He ascends above childish assumptions of what it means to be a superhero. It's hard, it's tough but Superman proves that once you've proven yourself, a superhero can change the world for the better. Only a child would argue that a superhero character being loved in a cartoon fake world is somehow powerful or inspiring.

i loved his performance too and really can't wrap my head around why there was such a backlash to this and bvs... bvs is a perfectly fine movie and mos is very good

don't believe the media hate campaign people

>Only a child would argue that a superhero character being loved in a cartoon fake world is somehow powerful or inspiring.

enjoy your alternative of him being both irrelevant and hated at the same time. snyders superman was a failure and only the most heinous autists actually defend the character. the one thing these people have in common is that they think they are "to smart" for the actual superman when in reality they are the fedoralord atheists of the superhero fandom

Literally no argument but extreme butthurt: the post.

Been nice wasting my time with you. Have the final reply.

>i want no conflict whatsoever!
edgy is not criticism. good writing is when characters go through conflicts and then adapt. that's called character development.
bad writing is when there are no stakes, no consequences whatsoever like the mcu. just generic flicks.

Life Giving Sword.

but yeah kinda meh for the blue boyscout to do.

What a terrible movie

>good writing is when characters go through conflicts and then adapt. that's called character development.

And superman is the one exception to this, he is literally "mary sue" personified and you cannot subvert that by trying to change him. You have the choice of either writing a good superman story or not writing a superman story. There is no "superman but darker". This is as if Batman suddenly used an assault rifle

>he is literally "mary sue" personified
This is so fucking wrong. Read more comics before claiming dominion over the character you phoney. You are a fake.

Ethical? Yes. Established well in the script? Debatable

Even in Kingdom Come, Superman was far from a Mary Sue. A jaded bitter old man who had given up on everything to be on his fake farm. He's reluctantly pulled into a war where he gets his ass fucking beat by Marvel who then also saves the day, not Superman. Superman has and can most definitely be portrayed as an actual living person.

>Ra's al ghul was going to kill himself and take the wayne towers with him.
What?
Th train only crashed because Batman damaged the brakes and Gordon destroyed the track.

This comic is so fucking retarded. "The only way for Superman to help is to carry a shipload of supplies because any other course of action is denied by contrived bullshit. So let's have him carry this tanker full of crap and then have it destroyed by another retarded contrivance, and then have him give up and quit after this one single failed attempt. THAT OUGHT TO EXPLAIN WHY SUPERMAN NEVER DOES ANYTHING USEFUL EVER." Fuck off.

no, he should had let zod kill that inocent family in front of their children, after zod said he will not stop at nothing until he can bath in the blood of the last human

he should stay like that holding zod forever. because superman never gets tired, specialy after a 3 hours battle

and since he was losing that battle until he managed to get the headlock, he should just let him go so zod could kill him too

Fuck off it's good

There's no water on Mars you fucking retard. The World Engine was ineffective if the planet didn't already have a liveable atmosphere.

>no i wont do that
>kills family of 5
>will you do it now?
>no
>kills another family of 5
>now?
>no
>kills entire city
>now?
>no

Superman is not batman, superman will do what he must do if it means saving lives

ITT: Stuckmanized Plebs

Funny how people are so easily brainwashed by Youtuber nu-male celebrities. Their arguments fall apart in an actual conversation where their cognitive dissonance is called out.

>Superman killed Zod in the 79 movie and in the comics while smiling, even though he had the resources to inprison him in both situations
>it's only in MOS that he kills Zod because any other choice would allow more innocent people to die

Mars has water on its poles. Also i have no fucking clue why you would make a "World Engine" terraformer if it relied on ALREADY liveable atmospheres to work.

The heat vision locks their eyeballs in place. Also Zod was aiming toward the family but not directly at them because he was trying to coax Superman into killing him. He could've killed the family a lot more quickly, but he was really wanting to commit suicide. He was an indestructible man and the only thing in the galaxy that could end his suffering was Kal-El.

youtube.com/watch?v=Hj1-paS7vGE
well kriptonians only shot fire from their eyes when they are horny

so no

If you watch again, Zod has the upper hand nearly the whole fight. Clark actually tries to punch him away from the city at one point, and only gets control when Zod is smashed through the satellite.

What's beautifully tragic too is that Zod is essentially the Superman of Krypton. Someone who devotes his entire life to the safety and wellbeing of the population.
But Zod is programmed to do that. Clark chooses to be a protector. Is that what makes Zod a villain, and Superman the hero? That element of free will?

youtu.be/7p5-14rjWUM?t=1417

Skip to 23:30 for the answer. He understands the film better than the collective force of smug passive-aggressive critics.

>Appealing to group think to validate my own opinions
He's right. That's why you can't take his points head on, you have to joke about how half the people who watch the movie hate it - without acknowledging the shallow reasons why.
In the comics (and this isn't even true if you've read the good post-Crisis stuff), the world bends to Superman, everything is meant to be easy for him. His adventures are a pleasurable power fantasy for weak people. Snyder's Man of Steel takes what is considered a cartoon character, indestructible and idealized, and makes him something real by placing him within our reality. He is physically indestructible, but emotionally vulnerable. He is not idealized, but idealistic. Instead of perfect man in perfect world that we can never have, we get a good man in our world today, and that inspires more hope for those who know escapism is futile but still wish to believe the modern society can be saved.

tiny nitpick, you could explain it away with the eyes being locked in place or zod having little to no experience using it

the part where zod discovers he can use the laser vision is brilliant because it establishes not only that he has achieved similar power to clark but still has very little control over it

He knows Superman cares about the welfare of the people. He'd be more focused on keeping the citizens safe than on fighting Zod.

Someone who gets it. Chad Snyder's vision is amazing. The era of manchild has been predictably rough on a man mocking their delusions as pathological.

>for an hour first
you mean six minutes?
>why did he need to throw him through a bunch of skyscrapers
you mean how zod threw clark through buildings?


as always, blatant misinformation at work

...

>he can pinpoint his laser visio-
Y'know something... We never DID find out how the Man of Steel shaves.

Yes. While I, personally, would've prefered Superman flew up while carrying Zod, so we can have an extended fight; I think anything other than ending it right there would've been torture. Not just for earth but for Zod.
And I think we can all agree torture is unethical.