Marvel not bringing in new customers

But that doesn't make any sense. I thought movie synergy and diverse diversity with diverse characters was supposed to do that.

>comicbookmovie.com/comics/marvel_comics/comics-it-sounds-like-retailers-are-beginning-to-get-a147838

I am so sick of crossovers, events, and team ups.

>Appeal to a new demographic in a way that alinates the old loyal one

I will never understand this. Expand your audience, of course, but don't push away the one you already have.

>Gimmick that will surely last for 3 issues
VS.
>Well written story with character people likes, be A, B, or C list
Is not an issue of demographicsm crossovers or the like, the thing is that at marvel nobody is comitted to their work

Which isn't even bringing in new customers reportedly.

Promotion will never help sell an useless product, marvel needs to hire better writers.

Time to meme him into being the new EiC.

Yeah because why wait on one story that could go somewhere when you can have 5 that go nowhere?

>Implying current Marvel wiill stand him

I mean, even if he got into Marvel I see him either quitting or getting fired during the first 5 months. Current Marvel is beyond Shooter salvation

It's actually funny that marvel changed so many of there a listers into legacies or replacements to appeal to new people because when I talk to people who like the movies and might be interested in the comics most often there biggest complaint is that they find all the repacements and legacy characters confusing.

I thought retailers were already sick of marvel when marvel started sending them hundreds of "free" books and made the Retailers pay for them.

>the old loyal one
Like how DC manged to win them over with Rebirth pendering to them?

Editors are important too. The current ones (Brevoort) are perfectly fine with writers pushing their political agenda and alienating people because they live in a bubble where everyone who doesn't agree with them is Hitler.
>hire better writers
Underscoring this, Marvel's newest choices are people with no experience who aren't interested in the field. They just check the box of being the non-straight white male identity of the character they're writing/drawing. (Cain, Leth, Coates, flamboyant gay Iceman writer whose name escapes me, Henderson, Walker etc.) ,And if you are a straight white male, you must be #woke (Bendis, Waid, Spencer, Hopeless etc.).

Right, there's this idea that the New Audience wants some one-to-one demographic match that requires making new legacies/characters, whereas a lot of people are drawn to the stuff that they know is classic/what they've seen on the big screen.

>I thought movie synergy and diverse diversity with diverse characters was supposed to do tha

those sell trades.

no one outside of the comics industry gives a shit about single issues.

This, this, a billion times this.

but Leth and Sina Grace (Ice Man writer, also generally good writer) have been putting out comics for years before Marvel hired them.

just because you didn't read/care for them doesn't mean they don't exist.

and seriously, I understand where you're coming from, but where do you expect new writers to come from? because in your mind if they're from in the industry but aren't straight white men, its a diversity hire, and if they're writers in other forms, they clearly have no experience with comics and shouldn't be writing them?

Let's not forget that Marvel no longer produces any books appropriate for kids to read anymore save the screenshots of the shitty animated shows. They used to have plenty of mainstream universe comics that were rated A.

Hiring people who aren't just older fanboys and aren't house writers who get a mandated topic shoved at them no matter what it is, that's actually a good idea. We need people writing comics who read more than just other comics.

Yeah, Marvel is freaking pitiful and I have lost hope in them, but I at least thought DC will bring some big sales with how old fans bragging about how comics are better off pandering to them.

Isn't Leth a webcomic artist?

yes.
she also wrote a bunch of licensed books for Boom (adventure time, bravest warriors, fraggle rock, edward scissorhands), some of which are considered good (by writers/critics who happen to be her friends).

>and if they're writers in other forms, they clearly have no experience with comics and shouldn't be writing them?
Nah. There are plenty of writers and artists who are good in their own right who happen to not be straight white males and don't push an agenda tied to their identity (Louise Simonson, Jim McCann, John Semper).And when it comes to new talent, it should be people who are really interested in comics and know/love the characters. That's how it was in the past. Half of the new hires have never read a comic in their life.

Coates is a big ol' comics nerd, and so is the new Black Bolt writer Saladin Ahmed.

Some of the people newer to comics clearly take to the mythos and do the reading and bring fresh eyes to it, and then some of them are Daniel P. Wilson, unfortunately.

>it should be people who are really interested in comics and know/love the characters.

but then you get shit like complaining about them just hiring fanboys.

there is literally no winning here.

They need MORE diversity. Replace Peter Parker with Moon Girl!!!! (Did you I is Moon Girl is literally the smartest person on Earth???!!!!!).

>then some of them are Daniel P. Wilson, unfortunately.

to be fair to Wilson, that book was doomed before he was attached to it.

I'd rather hire a fanboy than someone who doesn't know the characters. Or at least someone who knows what the people want.

user, Marvel does make new readers.
The problem is, they dont buy comics, just read them online for free.

...

I wouldn't say I've lost all hope in them, DC were in the same boat 5 years ago. Then again DC has had times when it has been truly great, I can't really think of a time like this for Marvel.

and the ones who actually buy the floppies, are the ones Marvel keeps alienating. Pottery

Before they decided that they needed to win the old fans back via Rebirth.
LMFAO

They also need to stop wasting good artists an writers on shit books.

Like putting the artist who did the Axis Hobgiblin book on Spider-Woman? Why?

Meanwhile, Champions, THEIR FLAGSHIP BOOK, has Ramos on it.

And stop putting Lemire on team books goddamn it.

>isn't exactly struggeling in terms of sales
They are literally giving their shit away for free to make their numbers look better.

I'll just post how they lost me with the example of ms marvel
>make new char
ok
>legacy
eeh
>write mildly interesting stuff with it, put some struggles in it
GOOD!
>she's a fanboy, heart of gold, dreams of making it big
I can get behi-
>EVENT
>EVERYTHING CHANGES
>NOW SHE MADE IT BIG
ok
>stories are shit now to me because they lost the glimmer of appeal of the underdog
thanks marv, i needed to drop another book, i can afford other comics anymore i guess.

Very good point, even if your taste in cartoons is shit.

Ironically the only writers who are exceptions to this and manage to write the same stuff for a few years, also happen to be ones who just keep writing shitty gimmick storylines all year long regardless (Bendis and Slott)

I don't think there's anyone in editorial or production who really knows what they're doing. Brevoort was a decent editor 20 years ago, but there's a reason the guy never got EiC. He's clearly too much of a pussy to run the ship the way it needs running and Axel seems to be completely out of touch with reality.

In the letters page of a recent
Moon Knight the senior editor on the book misnamed the writer of a run that's only ten years old, parroting a mistake in a fan letter. It was a sure sign of systemic incompetence.

Maybe it has something to do with Marvel's "Breadwinners" like Mark Waid talking about how Superman needed to be raised in a city to learn moral values instead of Racist Kansas.

I guess he was havin a senior moment,

Woah what's the gay Iceman comic?

I'm gonna be disappointed if I actually read it aren't I?

Will this effect Star Wars any?

It's not out yet

written by Sina Grace, art by Alessandro Vitti

No Star Wars, a least the main title, is still month to month one of the best selling comics coming out.

It's about Iceman's forbidden romance with an Inhuman named Romeo.

What do you think?

>Step 1: Announce relaunch.
>Step 2: Six month of relaunch titles.
>Step 3: Six months of event buildup.
>Step 4: Six months of event.
>Step 5: Go back to Step 1.
HOW COULD THIS FAIL?! - t. Alonzo and Brevoort.

You know you don't have to make stuff up to make them sound more retarded than they already were

except that it's real?

Peyer was the one shitting on Kansans, Waid was just ruminating on the idea of what Clark would be as a city slicker.

>It's about Iceman's forbidden romance with an Inhuman named Romeo.

I really can't believe they actually named him Romeo. I mean I know Marvel Comics isn't usually known for their subtlety, but that's just being way too blatant.

Waid is in agreement to it. Fly with the crows, get shot with the crows.

>Giving your paying customers what they want is pandering.
In any other industry, this is called making your customers happy. It's what every business does in order to increase sales and raise customer satisfaction. Here, it's apparently pandering.

It's amazing how badly Kamala was ruined. They had a great idea and then they fucked her over with the constant relaunches, Events (Secret Wars, CW2, IvX), and teams (First Avengers, then Champions, and now she's going to be in a Inhuman Spec Ops Team).

Her main book isn't even in the top 100 anymore.

It was nice of Nick Spencer to just come out and tell his readers how much he hates them

It would suck harder because at least "muh kansas values" has at least some root in reality.

I blame giving a series to fucking Solo.

>Terragen jizz causes M-Pox and kills Iceman
>Beast says it was all Iceman's fault and Romeo is completely innocent and nobody should have tried making him wear an Incondom and Iceman shouldn't have been so intolerant.

Carol's getting a movie. He'd sooner kill himself.

Kamala became a lamer, safer Katara who rants about not wanting to be the "mom" or a spoilsport in the worst moments as possible while at the same time, being these archetypes.

It's like Waid hates these archetypes yet it's ok if he points out how these character is now a mouthpiece before doing it.

Guilty.
I know no less than 5 sites off the top of my head, why the fuck wouldn't you?

>the new demographic doesn't even buy the comics, they just complain about every single "problematic" nitpick from them that lands in their tumblr feed
Who thought this was a good idea? Everyone knows you give these people an inch and the next thing you know 900 miles isn't even good enough.

>Step 2: Six month of relaunch titles.
>Step 3: Six months of event buildup.
These are the same step by now.

if you use the word pandering as a pejorative, you are a retard without anything worth saying.

Nah, bring back DeFalco

I'm fucking loving every laugh.

DC's Hanna Barbera reboots are awesome; my dad started reading my Future Quest comics to the point where he started buying them along with Flintstones. Marvel decides to try and sell to a bunch of netizens who scoff as physical media then wonder where they went wrong.

The dude's probably younger than I am, which may be the problem. Probably wasn't even reading comics 10 years ago.

Endless reboots are comic book cancer. I'd bet every person on this board got started in the middle of an story arc. All they do is let new writers put zero effort into continuity instead of slim to middling effort into coninuity.

IMO so much of it comes down to time crunch and lack of editing. Write something as an outline, figure out how to cut the waste and what's good, where to call back to older stuff, how to make every bit of the page do something for plot or character...that takes skill and more than one pass.

>diverse diversity with diverse characters

OP is scared of non-vanilla humans, thinks it's somehow Marvel's fault.

Meanwhile Marvel books continue to sell just fine outside of the sweat-encrusted echo chamber that is the comic book store niche.

Fucking this! Its perfectly reasonable to expand your market,but antagonize with your core audience?!

>Meanwhile Marvel books continue to sell just fine
lololol

tip top lel

It's bad bait, just ignore it

...

Jesus Waid, why are you so cancerous?

What happened to him? Was his wife's son murdered by Trump supporters or something? I knew it was bad with his constant KKK shit like with Legion and Daredevil but even then it would just be one arc.

t. non-white non-american

So much this. I want huge 5-10 year runs by worthy writers. Brubaker, Gage, Ellis. I even liked Bendis up until about 2010.

>Leth
>putting out comics for years before Marvel
Tumblr webcomics aren't comic books.

...

>there is literally no winning here.
It's not about winning. It's about producing good stories.

Instead of the New 52, DC would have been better off releasing an alternate universe. Something in the vein of Marvel Ultimates meets Stracynski's Supreme Power.

I would have read the shit out of that.

Normally I'd be annoyed with his bitching but it's got to suck as a fucking retailer to get product that won't ever fucking move. The model that a Comic book store has to deal with is awful and getting even more shit you have to pay shipping for, that everyone knows won't move is shit.

>is still month to month one of the best selling comics coming out.
Which still can't seem to make the top 10 anymore.

What are they even publishing these days? A Darth Vader series? Or is it a miniseries?

Fucking deplorable Drumpftard Nazis stopped buying our shit! Fuck white males. We NEVER needed them. Trendy Muslim POC Women and transgender tumblerinos will fill the gap.

I started with the new 52
But seeing what Marvel was doing made me very uninterested in them

>>Terragen jizz causes M-Pox and kills Iceman
>>Beast says it was all Iceman's fault and Romeo is completely innocent and nobody should have tried making him wear an Incondom and Iceman shouldn't have been so intolerant.

How sad is it, that I believe this description is entirely accurate.

If they really wanted a gay Iceman a decent writer could have just had virginal and impressionable teen Bobby be seduced by a charistmatic man.

Same here. I honestly can't bring myself to care about Marvels universe. Its so fucking boring

>DC would have been better off releasing an alternate universe. Something in the vein of Marvel Ultimates meets Stracynski's Supreme Power.
They did. It was called Earth One.

It's hard to bring in new readers when your characters are constantly changing and don't even match up to who they are in the movies.

Everything but those last two sentences is perfectly logical. People wanting to purchase nice, well constructed paperback/hardcover books is not their fault. A business that relies on monthly floppy books is straight up just a poor business model.

They did that with Earth 2 and Earth One, and the former is really worth a look. Some of Earth One is alright.

Earth One Superman was pretty forgettable, it was nowhere near as gripping as Supreme Power.

Worked for Star Wars.

They didn't push away their old audience though. They filled it with a whole bunch of nostalgia crap. New Star Wars is closer to Rebirth than what Marvel is doing

congrats on completely misunderstanding why the new Star Wars movies worked, even if I was completely underwhelmed by TFA being an almost total rehash

Star Wars fans are idiots. These last few shitshows have shown me that it's actually impossible to repel these people.

I'm inclined to believe that Marvel is using Twitter for market research into what people want.

>Marvel comics aren't for kids anymore.
Not Marvel's fault kids would rather play Minecraft then read comics.

Not all of us I fucking hate TFA and didn't even watching Rogue One

>My pull lisit is exclusively be full of women and minority focused comics,

Virtue signalling this hard...