Why is Venture Bros still good while Archer basically burned out by Season 3?

Why is Venture Bros still good while Archer basically burned out by Season 3?

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Honestly I think VB's 1-2 year gaps between seasons has helped it stay fresh. If Jackson and Doc had to make the show at a yearly pace they probably would've burned out a long time ago too.

because venture has world building and a story to tell. Archer just kinda bumbled around doing shenanigans.

So the latest season of VB is good? I had no cable access when it aired and it just got added to Hulu.

I'd argue that Archer is still just as good now as when it began.

it took 12 years for VB to hit it's 6th season while it took Archer only 6-7 years to hit it's 7th season.

The long gaps hide the quality decline, VB isn't as good as it once was but it hasn't hit Archer levels yet

I think VB is just as good, but it's changed directions. It's got more of a legitimate plot and character development rather than just being an episodic genre parody. I can understand why some people don't like the change but I say it's about the same level of quality.

it had legitimate plot and character development way back in season 2

Like people, some shows age better than others

Yeah, season 6 is great

To be fair Season 4 of Venture Bros was pretty bad, and Season 5 wasn't much better. It only really recovered with 6.

Yeah, I think the show peaked with season 2, season 3 was also good but didn't top 2, and 4 and especially 5 were weak. 6 brought it back to form, but it's a shame it's still just a half season.

Hey that apple looks a lot like that orange there. Maybe we ahould compare them...
Archeris good if you go into each season expecting something different. This didn't use to be the case, but the butthurt early season fans can watch that gay retard shit from Australia if they hate it so much. It's still the same humor and it's still fucking gold.
I really want afi ale to Frisky Dingo, though.

>Want a finale*
Fuck tablet typing sometimes. Cant live with autocorrect, can't live without it.

Archer has this genuinely assholish prick of a sense of humor which is tinged with actual mean spirited shit, whereas venture bros is very darkly humorous but sympathetic to it's characters so that we really care about them. I'm glad VB moved away from shit like Brock murdering scads of minions like the early seasons. The joke works cause you feel sorry for these gormless bastards going up against the ubermensch getting absolutely destroyed. Had that gone on too long it would have gotten old. And that's the thing with VB, there's so much fucking variety and it draws from such an unprecedentedly large pool of things to satirize it has only gotten more fresh as the creators hone their comedic skills. The episode of the latest season which parodies Warhol and his pop art subculture movement as supervillains had a joke which made me audibly laugh for like a minute or two.

All the characters in Archer are borderline evil cunts and i wouldnt care if they died.

IMO

I feel exactly the same way, 2 was easily the best season. Basically the perfect mix of world building and comedy, the rest tend to lean too far in one direction or the other.

god i fucking love venture brothers

Brock still goes on minion murdering sprees
You just sound like you're butthurt about being bullied in high school with your gripes about archer. Indecently, that's why Archer is a prick, he's been bullied his entire life by either his mother or his peers, everyone else has no excuse but he's actually redeemable.

That's a bit of a stretch there mate, i was never bullied in school. And yeah i agree Archer is redeemable and is a loveable idiot. But him and most other characters are basically sociopaths. Supporting characters eyes widening in disbelief as they state some crazily debauched thing one of the main characters just did has got to be a punchline used at least once in literally every episode. I'm just saying it gets old after a while. I still enjoy the show but it doesnt still have the sheen that VB does. And while there's still ple ty of violence, Brock doesn't do sprees like he used to

Eh,sorry im tired and that's how I sound when I project. I guess I was projecting the projection? I dunno. Good night.

Easy.

The Venture Bros. is, at its heart, a show that is written to play with the insane and inane tropes of action/adventure comics and shows. It exists in a world where the stakes are high and the gadgets are incredible, and even in its grounded moments it is rooted firmly in a universe where Super Heroes are a real thing. It makes the fantastic normal.

Archer is sort of the opposite. Archer is about amazing cold war era spy shenanigans getting thrown as an overlay for silly office antics in a world that doesn't necessarily know or care about all of the comic inspired fluff. It makes the normal fantastic.

Both have their place, but when the meta narrative of Archer ran out of things that are normal to compare itself to, the quality of humor took a nosedive. The entire show lacks a straight man, and it having one was fundamental to its comedy.

Because Archer was always fucking awful.

I'm glad you would argue that. It's too bad that you didn't.

They aren't really comparable, they have stuff in common, but they are very different shows.

Venture Bros. is a Hanna-Barbera mystery show parody cranked to 11 that morphed into a drama with action and comedy elements. It's a lot less fun than it used to be, but more engaging.

Archer started off as a mix between The Office and a Get Smart parody, and now all of the characters are reduced to one fascet of their original personalities and it's just a "wacky people do wacky shit" show, featuring action scenes and crude humor. But i would argue that Archer is still entertaining, even now with worse characters and weaker writing.

Yeah, abrupt ending though. Didn't feel like a finale at all.

Hello, Enter

Both of these.

Also Venture Bros isn't afraid to let its characters develop over time. Other than maybe Cyril, all the characters in Archer are the same as when we met them.

I was surprised when I found out that autist is actually moderately popular.

That's because it was really only a half-season. Doc and Jackson didn't find out until late in Season 6's production cycle that Adult Swim budgeted the Gargantua 2 special as part of Season 6, so they only had the money to make the first 8 episodes of the season that they had planned. Thus, Season 7 is in fact going to be an extended version of the last third of Season 6, in essence.

Why is rick and morty so popular with normies while venture bros is limited to Sup Forums and adult swim stoners?

Because it is over 10 years old and a big part of VB's appeal is getting to know the characters over time, most people aren't willing to deep dive on a show that has been running for that long.

Venture Bros is over a decade old.
Jesus, where did the time go?

By the time Season 7 finally comes out it'll likely be a decade and a half.

Hopefully we'll see more of this guy in it too. I need more Dean Martin villains in my life.

I'm getting married in March. I feel like I will have a child before VB ends. I can trace my journey from adolescence to adulthood along with Hank and Dean's.

>all the characters in Archer are the same as when we met them.
No, they are not. As the story progresses, their characters get reduced to their most defining trait. Pam, for example, went from lovable, slightly overweight head of HR to
>Dude, she's gross, lmao.
To be fair, that happens in every sitcom ever.

S5 Pam was probably my least favorite one, mostly due to the cocaine stuff but THAT ONE scene just makes me fucking cringe. I'd say that her, Krieger and Carol feel the most flanderized. On the other hand, S5 has my favorite voicemail hoax with the shit he did to Ray's phone.

Though my favorite scene is probably still the bumble bee one from S2.

youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0hzsm3Vy8

VB = Sup Forums
Archer = Reddit

The cocaine jokes were kind of arcane I agree. Though I have since tried and gotten into coke so now I find I understand the humor of those scenes much better. Still Archer Vice was mostly a mistake.

Funnily enough it took me until my mid 20's to truly appreciate VB. When I was a teenager the majority of the jokes and older pop culture references flew right over my head. Maybe that's one reason why it's not that popular with the younger audience.

I'm gonna need source, otherwise that's not true.
They knew that Gargantua 2 was taken out of the season's budget, but still planned this season as is. They did say that they wanted to switch the penultimate and final episodes for a more satisfying conclusion, but couldn't get it to work.

Archer is still funny and its a concept that is easy to like
VB is only references and stupidity

Really? I'd heard that Season 6 was still unfinished, but I'll take your word on it.

Archer started relying way too heavily on callbacks. I get the impression during new episodes that long stretches have only old jokes repackaged in a sort of constant wink to the audience that at this point need to be laid to rest. I can only hear Archer ask if they're still doing phrasing so many times before I'd wish he'd just be over it.

Ray needed more screentime. The crippled jokes always got me.

No one in Venture Bros. race baits so I don't know what you're talking about.

White Noise

I think it's less that it's unfinished and more that it and season 7 will be 2 halves of the whole. So yeah, it is kinda unfinished.

Even if some characters got lamer in the later seasons I've always enjoyed Ray, he's probably one of my favorite characters in the show. More Ray in the later seasons didn't hurt.

>Gay mindgames with cyril
>pretending to be crippled
>all of vision quest

And good thing you have no arguments either.

>episode where the Italian prime minister is dead
>Cyril: I hate you all so much.
>Ray: No one cares Figgis, you were only invited to round out the numbers.

archer i feel could have still been good if they didn't try to go completely away from the spy agency setting. I feel that honestly season 4 was on par with 1-3 but 5 began the decline of quality. Archer i think could redeem itself and finsih strong, but i don't think season 8 will be that season. Seasons 9 and 10 should stick to the same idea and start closing off story lines with some people. However no matter what happens lana will always be my wafiu

>Brock still goes on minion murdering sprees
When was the last time he murdered the Monarch's boys? He murders evil assholes, not the poor mooks.

Pam was always gross. Originally, she was the clueless unattractive overweight chick in the office who would die a barren spinster.

As the series went on, they started dropping jokes about her mysterious past/double as a drift car racing, pit fighting, tattoo'd badass who fucks with the Yakuza as a play on how people perceived her as this meek and boring person. That eventually became her character.

In the first episode of the show, she was moved to tears because Archer hit her with a dolphin puppet during a therapy session and he would have never banged her. In later seasons, she would have (and has) beat the shit out of him and she's the best lay he's ever had.

Carol and Kreiger had little characterization at the beginning as well. Carol jumped onto the crazy train rather early though.

I still think shit's gone downhill since the middle of Archer Vice, but it's not BAD bad. My favorite is still the whole Pirate King arc.

I feel like archers problem is that it doesn't invest too much time in their new settings. like archer vice and the detective agency felt way too short. I think the detective agency season was only what 10 or 12 episodes. if they embraced their new setting and expanded on it I feel it would be more enjoyable

Pam is definitely better now. And Cheryl is the best character ever since they made her fly off the handle.

Never liked Pam. I could buy a lot of shit, but a 300 pound fatass being a cage fighter took me out of it.

bump

>arcane

The word you're looking for is archaic.

archer's art style is bad, and its attempted 'sexiness' is teenage at best

No, she is still misunderstood fat slut.

Venture Bros has kids who grow and change and do stuff. Really the only person who's stayed the same has been Dr. Venture. Brock is somewhat back to normal, but he's had some character arcs here and there. Monarch is pretty good.

Archer's general focus is on Archer, who is still the big fucking asshat he was on day 1

I really liked Season 7 of Archer but I know I'm in the minority

>while Archer basically burned out by Season 3

The premise of the show is a suave, cocky superspy who's a little stupider and a lot luckier than he ought to be. About a season in, you realize Adam Reed has never watched any spy movies and doesn't really know what he's satirizing.

That guy who was schooling Figgis in the beginning about how to be a spy? You never see him again, just his Homer Simpson flanderization.

The other thing the show really, really needed to drop was catchphrases as the highest form of bantz, but it's retardedly easy to write so it stayed.

Ray went from being a competent field agent who's gay with a dry wit to a squealing slapstick sight gag. Lana can't do much right and seems unaware that spies do wetwork.

Don't get me wrong, they play off each other well enough and I laugh. But the show got a lot stupider after the third season and FX shaved their seasons down because of it

No, he murders the shit out of those mooks. Don't forget Venture-Stein.

Things change AROUND Archer, which isn't anywhere near the same thing as character development.

Oh no. They aren't spies any more, they're _________

I really wanted a "Slater. Just Slater" spinoff or mini.

>Everyone's fucked up in Bojack
>AOTYAY
>Everyone's fucked up in Archer
>"Why is everyone mean spirited?"

Neither of them are funny. It's reddit and memey tier humor for children and stoners.

The long break between seasons of the venture brothers gives the 2-3 writers a lot of time to think of new ideas, write good episodes, and develop characters.

While archer returns every year, with every episode being written by just Adam Reed (and occasionally someone else), and there's a limit to how much you can really write before you get burned out, which is probably why the show is having different themes each season and reusing the same jokes from the first 4 seasons.

From Reed's Reddit AMA
>"I write all the episodes myself – except for a very few, where I wrote with another writer. I don't really have rules, but the characters' traits usually dictate how they're going to act/react. Yes on the secluded room, but it's usually just my office at home"

t. Someone whose never seen the Venture Bros.

>Things change AROUND Archer, which isn't anywhere near the same thing as character development.

Which makes it funny when Archer gives that speech in season six about how he's changed and can't do the things he used to.

Brock definitely stopped with the mindless murders. Monarch has no henchmen anymore, and before that he hadn't killed one since the Season 3 finale. Beat the shit out of some of Wide Wale's men but I don't remember him killing anyone last season.

Bump

The Venture Bros. started off as an amusing parody and the characters got more developed with each passing season, especially the background ones. Archer also started as a parody but even as the characters grew, most of them became increasingly flanderized in each successive season. Also, when Venture Bros. pulls a callback to something from an older episode it's usually much later down the line and a real treat for the viewer, especially when something that initially seems really minor becomes a rather significant plot point. Archer mostly just has a bunch of running jokes that eventually get stale no matter how differently they're used.

Dude
Every season is God tier

In VB, there's some character growth, and it sticks. It may be slow, but it sticks. That and the season's events tend to play around each other, and you KNOW they're going to intersect, but they tease you for so long. Bad things happen to everyone, but there's a reason for it.

Archer has funny gags, but characters seem to reset every few episodes. S7 especially had Archer swearing that he would be a good parent every other episode he'd be off without Lana and the kid. That, and most of the characters come across as petty dicks, which is funny, but you can only milk it so often before that cow runs dry.

I'm not saying people in VB aren't petty, but the characters move on.
>what do you mean there's no OH MY GOOOOD THERE'S NO SIIIIIIIIIIINK
kekking hard.


This.

because archer is just reusing jokes at this point

I agree that Archer has always been mediocre.

when is venture season 7

venture bros isn't even funny though. The humor relies on stupidity rather than wits

this post relies on stupidity rather than wits

>stahp maken fun uf muh fav sho
cry more, faggot.

you weren't making fun of it you were just saying it was bad. making fun is what i did of you right afterwards

you're right. I was stating Logical facts about the show whereas you couldn't handle it, so you had to go full autist on me.

I think the long gaps with VB give them time to go over and over and over the scripts and have a much tighter, cleaner plan because they have nothing but time.

Please do everyone a favor and fucking kill yourself.

You can't show someone snorting coke on FX, so when Pam was using cocaine, she kept eating it. That joke got old very fast

Brock has been hanging out with 24 so his attitude towards minions have changed. Don't you remember his vision quest with the shaman?

Krieger is one character i'm glad they use sparingly because that way he isn't flanderized.

to be fair, carol was crazy from the get go

A U T I S M
U
T
I
S
M

Don't feed the trolls. That guy is too fucking ridiculous to be real and even if he was he's too pathetic to acknowledge. Autism.
I think that's the main issue actually. Fuck storytelling or world building or characterization so long as it's funny. But the reason it "was funny" isn't because the new jokes are worse. It's that the same "phrasing"/voicemail/Seinfeldian arguments/mildy obscure tangents by Archer/Lana Lana LANA/cyborgs!!!/shooting a coworker/Kreiger likes weird or extreme shit/Malory is racist/Pam is fat and x-treme/Malory is homophobic/Cheryl has a choking fetish or name change/Malory is old/Archer has casual argument with his enemy over something incredibly petty like his decor or something/Malory is sex-starved/Cyril is Mike Matei/Malory is a whore/Archer has mommy issues/Archer has daddy issues/Archer has father issues/Archer has father issues... again/abrupt flashback set-ups can only be funny a few times. And I know I listed a bunch of set-ups for jokes there but when those are the only jokes at this point it certainly wears thin very, very quickly.

R&M as a whole doesn't ask for the audience to care about the characters, making the show easily-digestible. VB is the total opposite.

Fuck R&M's S2 ending.

well bojack's characters tries to fix their shit while archer's fall to no major consequences. s'pose it counts as world building

Care to give some examples? I'm curious.

A lot of the Jonny Quest references flew over my head, particularly because I never watched that 90s reboot since I didn't have cable when I was younger.