Death Of The DCEU?

It's no secret. An awful lot of people out there are none too pleased with the way the DCEU has been shaping up. Whether they have misgivings about the tone and blander color scheme, the questionable and inconsistent ways they've been treating Superman, the rushed storyline, Lex, whatever.
So, what the hell. If DC had selected YOU to be their answer to Marvel's Kevin Feige, what would you have done differently? What villains, storylines, characters, etc, would you have utilized in the making of this film series, to obtain maximum profit and acclaim?

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Dammit Jim! Im a doctor, not a miracle worker!

>muh color
>muh quips
autistic nitpicking

I fixed the DCEU many threads ago.]
Honestly, the Universe is so well ingrained in the minds of generations, that you'd have to be a comic book hating retard to fuck it up completely.

But here we are anyway, and If I wanted to hear a bunch of hamfisted headcanon I can just wait for DCEU defense thread #4253, for the usual user who provides it.

This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

And since the guy in charge of defending Snyder's honor is currently lurking on the board, he even beat me to this shitfestival.

Follow your dreams, Bones! You can do it!

>I fixed the DCEU many threads ago.
Prove it, brother.

Let's pretend that all of the DCEU got wiped. You've got a fresh start on everything

How do you construct this franchise?

Personally, I'd start with the Justice League film and have a line of spin-off films featuring each member(s) having their own separate adventure while also connecting them all with a minor subplot involving Darksied coming down to Earth. Another running theme in these films would be their powers and their grasp over them. At first in JL, it's really only Batman who's got his shit together but even then he's still just a really talented guy with a few bat themed gadgets. Through each of the individual films, they all learn something new about their powers or in the case of Aquaman or Wonderwoman find a new tool or weapon to help them. So by the time you get to Justice League 2, which is the finale to the Darksied subplot that's been going on, has them all take on an army of Parademons showing how far they've grown as a team and as heroes when they start kicking ass and taking names, working together and using their powers together to do some really cool shit you'd only expect from a big blockbuster

Okay, Marvel did their hub and spokes, starting with several single hero movies leading into a big one.
I would answer with a linear progression in which we start with one plot thread on a low level leading into an escalation in the end that points to the next movie, leveling up the conflict.
Then by the fourth movie shit is so fucked they need the Justice League to resolve the arc.
After that each of the thus established heroes gets their own movie.
Tone varies wildly by hero.
But we avoid bleak filters and empty gesture in favor of giving people the heroes they know and love, then maybe subvert them later.
Our heroes are fucking gods.
They don't murder goons.
And we lead with someone we won't have to shoot ourselves over if we swing and miss.
Bats and Supes come in when we feel secure in our position.

Same thing except with a more controlled media narrative so that people would have been more inclined to like it. Plus bribed critics.

Disneyfy it.

>How do you construct this franchise?
Well first I'd make a well-constructed universe with cool ideas. Then I'd post the idea on Sup Forums. Finally, I'll leave the thread because nobody read my idea and it was a huge waste of time, as usual.

Actually take notes on what MCU did right and wrong, for starters. Actually build up to the payoff of a crossover, but don't slack off on the plot. We don't want another Cap 1 or Iron Man 2 that just served as preludes to the Avengers

We start with a Batman solo. He's got Tim Drake and Batgirl in his corner. The film has a heavy emphasis on family – take notes from The Incredibles –, with Bruce losing one family and gaining another through sweat and blood. The villain can be anyone but the Joker

Next is probably Superman. I'd rather focus on what it means to BE Superman, which means less focus on DBZ-esque special effects. Establish what he stands for, give him normal criminals to combat for a short while, and focus on philosophical conflicts as opposed to physical conflicts. Save that for JL. You can still top it off with Supes going toe to toe with a supervillain, but that shouldn't be the entire plot

I think Flash be the best followup, tonally. Then Wonder Woman, still taking place in WW1. Top it off with Green Lantern Corps, following Hal and John before coming back to Batman

The Joker wouldn't be introduced until Batman 2, where the Death of the Family storyline is played with a bit. We introduce Nightwing and maybe Jason if the latter fits, and Batman ends up alone and broken just in time for Justice League

I ran out of steam here, but it's just a suggestion

And just to specify, Flash take on Reverse Flash, but without resorting to time travel shenanigans. WW would take on Ares, GLC would take on the Manhunters or something

I'd stop being so concerned with competing with and "catching up to" Marvel. And just focus on doing our own thing cultivating our own properties and their potential.

And then I'd get fired for not aiming high enough or for not being ambitious enough.

The Justice League's first big villain should be Starro.

That'd be legitimately cool. But it'd never happen.
The name alone would make them deny the idea.

Deep in my heart, I know.
But I want to dream, damn it.

Any recs for a starter supervillain for Superman?

Marvel had Ultimates
Who put his characters in the 21st century
Hired good directors and actors
You want to know the secret of Iron Man be a success?
Watch Iron Man Making Of, Favreau putting bad ideas for the movie and the Marvel people JUST saying, no, no and no.
In the end?
Everybody knows what happened

Simple
Like
That

They need to bring the A game, but the DCEU's gonna be fine. The last X-Men movie made less than $550 million worldwide - nobody panics.

>Death Of The DCEU?
If it makes money, it won't end.

It's obvious clickbait my friends

>the Universe is so well ingrained in the minds of generations,

No its not, this is literally what casuals say to justify that they know better than WB. If you read comics you would know nothing about BvS or MoS fuck it up.

They should remake the animated movies in live action.

>No it's not
It literally is. Everyone and their grandmother knows about Superman and Batman.
You just have to think outside of your "modern dc is so great" casual thinking to actually realize this.

I'm talking about Superfriends, Donner Supes BtAS, StAS, the Justice League cartoons, the various live action television shows, the Burton films and yes, even the incredibly popular and edgy Nolan films.

People are enormously familiar with the origins, premise and basic character of DC's main superheroes.

I would have done mostly the same thing but change the following...

MOS
>> More clearly explained Pa Kent's concerns of the world & society getting fucked up if Aliens are revealed to exist.
>> The tornado scene - Have Pa say outloud to Clark no you protect your mom and the girl he hands to Clark to justifiy why HE has to get the dog more clearly. Have Pa get back out of the car and Clark get to the over pass at the same time, and have Pa hold out his hand and then Clark hesitates only for a split second and Pa is swept away. As the scene is, it comes off like their is WAY too much time of Clark not doing shit, just lingers.
>> Have Clark look up right before crashing into Smallville and clearly try and change course only to go into a tumble and THEN crash into the 711.
>> Removed church scene.
>> Removed the jump over the oil tanker.
>> When Clark is punching Zod over the sky have Clark take Zod further out well past the edge of down town instead of right to the edge before Zod swerved back in so the people claiming he never tried to move the fight elsewhere can fuck off more definitively.
>> After the slaying of Zod have a long montage of Clark helping people out of the ruins, assisting rescue crews, using his hearing to detect people trapped.

I am thinking outside of modern DC. Sure they know ABOUT Superman and Batman doesnt mean they know who they are. They know the popularized versions of Adam West Batman, Reeves Superman, etc.


If anything Snyder's versions were more true to their comic counterparts.

>inb4 batman never killed in the comics!

Well no shit, but the way the movies actually address Batman's crusade and the psychosis behind it, how they actually show a Superman and Pa Kent who struggle with figuring out exactly how to be good while minimizing unforeseen negative consequences, a Superman whose alien and human sides are married, complimentary, but still both present.


Even in the spirit of the comics, they actually try to explore these characters and their places in culture, what these characters (that walk around with symbols on their chests) symbolize to us.


It even follows in multiple superhero comic traditions, such as unabashedly tying itself to a much grander universe, making connections between characters history's, and re-examining and commenting on superhero works that came before them.


Its one of the most comic faithful adaptations we've gotten, its just not in accordance with the what the general population has been led to expect out of the Superman property.

I actually like this. I'd argue WW would probably happen before Flash because "muh trinity" if nothing else. I'd be a little wary about the "family" aspect of Batman, mostly because his origin has been done to death. Everyone knows his parents were murdered in front of him, though as long as a full-frontal flashback is avoided it would probably be well enough.

BVS
>> Released the full film in theaters as is.
>> Cast Lauren Cohen as Wonder Woman
>> Doomsday got much spikier as the battle progressed.
>> Batman not kill anyone during the car chase.
>> Jesse be bald all the way thru, have him be FAR less twitchy & spastic and be more cold and detached as he was in the Social Network.
>> Have a scene with Clark, Lois and Martha having a fun happy dinner together to add to the ladies interactions at the end.
>> Have Clark try to reason with Bruce when the first dose of Kryptonite wore off only to be forced to tackle him when Batman tries to reload.
>> Have Clark "Say your killing my mother" instead of what we got.
>> Have scenes of Clark as a reporter and as Superman being open and friendly with people he rescues. Have him say "No that isn't necessary, I am just a man trying to help when the Mexicans start semi worshiping him" with a smile.

>Snyder's version
It was bastardized and it comes from a guy who doesn't even respect or understand the superhero genre.
You're supporting cancer, user. Realize what you've done.

Also
>> I would have removed the notion that loosing Lois caused Clark to aid Darkseid. Just have him say nothing in the dungeon scene.

He doesn't like or understand the kiddy silly aspects of the genre, that doesn't mean he doesn't respect it.

Do a soft-reboot. It's all you can do, at this point.

Have Clark already established as a beloved Superhero - warm and friendly and stuff. But he mentions offhandedly how he screwed up the first time he put on the tights, and how hard he's worked to make things right and get it to where people trust him again.

Also...
>> Removed shot of him in the burning senate room.

>He doesn't like or understand
Thanks for proving my point user.

ONLY the kiddy silly aspects, that is a only a small stupid fucking part of Superheroes.
Fuck the hell off!

I think people would have bitched a lot less about John Kent in MoS if the dialogue was like:

>"What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?"
-John hesitates for a moment-
>"No. No of course not. You did the right thing Clark, and I'm proud of you. But you have to understand, there's more at stake blah blah blah"

Get off my thread, Snyderfag

Like right now
Snyderfag

>Death Of The DCEU?

They have yet to have a bomb. As long as nothing bombs they will keep making movies.

So I guess we just have to see how Justice league does.

You forgot
>>Mercy lives

Can't belive Justice League isn't my highest anticipated movie this year.
I hope they drop the DCEU should both upcoming movies do poorly.

>The name alone would make them deny the idea.

This right here is proof enough that WB is going about this universe the wrong way. If you're afraid of goofy names then the DC universe is not for you to adapt

Oh wait is this a real Snyderfag? Not your run of the mill shitposter? Holy hell this is hilarious. Your favorite director is an overpayed cameraman who's idea of subtle imagery is shoving a photo in your stupid face

This and if instead of Superman watching Johnathan die they both try and rescue as many people as they can and Clark finds his pa dead in the rubble later as a lesson that he can't save everybody

>only a small stupid fucking part
Seeing as how it's a genre that was created for children, I don't see how it's a small part.
The superhero genre is not avant garde art for you to try to explain to people and feel superior for it. It's an action fantasy genre created for children.
Yes, I know. An opinion like this isn't popular because it means that serious grown up individuals like yourself can't enjoy the genre without being embarrassed by it (like zack Snyder). But the truth of the matter is that nobody cares what you like. You want to enjoy kids funnybook movies, that's cool. Just don't be pretentious about it.

This is actually depressing. Even if they cut their losses, we still lose

>He doesn't like or understand the kiddy silly aspects of the genre

Then he should fuck off. The Justice league faces dark threats we all know that but they're supposed to be the light in the darkness not a bunch of depressed sad sacks that question "Is being a hero the right thing?"

The only one of them who isn't depressed is fucking Flash. How did it come to this?

be too long to get into any detail, but the goal would be to make fun superhero adventures. and by fun I don't mean quips. it'll be modeled after the JL/JLU cartoons and how they made fun, but also meaningful stories.

...

>The name alone would make them deny the idea.
Drop some alien beings called the thing "Sta-Ro" which translates to "the Conqueror" because it goes from planet to planet taking over the life forms, and then they just just call it the Conqueror the rest of the movie.

They went too big too fast. We had the death of Superman in the second film. We all know the cunt can't die now. He didn't need to be killed by Doomsday just because it happened in the comic. Imagine if Superman was killed in the final act of Part 1 in the last Justice league films. People would actually care

I never said he was my favorite Director (he isn't), I never said he isn't flawed (he is). But just because he does not want to do campy silly Adam West style shit does not mean he doesn't respect Superheroes.

how does he not understand the kiddy part? Like one can understand it and just choose to make a story that isnt that. There are lots and lots of Superman and Batman stories that arent intended for children. Just because he only got into comics through Watchmen doesnt mean he doesnt like the more fantastical parts of superhero comics, a lot of people get into via more deconstructionist or serious works. I mean this is a guy who actively fought FOR the red trunks:

craveonline.com/site/515353-exclusive-interview-deborah-snyder-talks-man-of-steel-and-easter-eggs#!

And who was inspired to make films because of Star Wars. He loves the fantastic. Hell, he gave us the most campy Luthor since Hackman, one incredibly reminiscent of Birthright and his Golden and Silver Age incarnations.


Just because he wants to infuse his story with serious tones doesnt mean he doesnt respect or like the fantastic or "kiddy" elements as you call them.

This has nothing to do with our levels of maturity or embarrassment, this is about immersion into the film and the world created within it, if it is bright and silly their is no reason to get invested in it.

>Cast Lauren Cohen as Wonder Woman
I agree with pretty much everything else you've said but why would you replace one stick with another? Sure at least this stick can act but she's still a stick.

THIS, thank you.

>just because it happened in the comic
That's barely even the fourth most important reason why Superman died in the second movie.
And no, people won't care if he's dead because all Snyder and his writers have done is define his life as endless suffering and alienation. Death for this Superman isn't a tragedy, it's a sweet release from the pain of existence. And they didn't see fit to make him likable enough to be mourned.

I'm pretty sure the Golden/Silver Age Lex wasn't a gay spastic who pissed in jars and shit.
Hackman, for all his weight and his hair, did something that Jesse didn't.
Convince the audience that he was for real menacing

>I agree with pretty much everything else you've said
Thank you.
>but why would you replace one stick with another? Sure at least this stick can act but she's still a stick.
She is actually clearly muscular regardless if she isn't bulky like say Carano.

...

>Convince the audience that he was for real menacing
No he fucking didn't lol.

Yeah, because clearly you can only do the extremes between kid/family fun and SUPER SERIOUS LOOK HOW ARTSY THIS IS you fucking idiot. Come to think of it, he only knows extremes. And I'll let you in on a little secret: People actually liked the Adam West show, and it will probably be remembered long after Snyders trainwreck. You and I both know a competent director could have had a decent balance between both. Snyder, just doesn't get it. The fucker literally skimmed through TDKR with little context as to what made that imagery significant to begin with.

See...

The idea that the ONLY options are Snyder and Adam West is a false dichotomy. It's entirely possible to treat the subject matter with gravitas without being unnecessarily dour.

If the ONLY way to make a character likable is to KILL them you're not a very good writer.

no one actually thought Hackman was menacing, and dont be obtuse. Calling him gay is just stupid and bigoted.
The only time Lex acts spastic is when Clark is in the room, and thats because he knows he is Superman and his hate for him is so fucking pure that he cant even get his speech out at his own library gala thing. The rest of the time he is the most in control/dominating presence in the room (except of course, after he is driven mad in the Kryptonian ship).


Shit, when he was throwing those photos at his feet and had Clark bow to him, it was one of the few times ive genuinely felt like Lex was a threat.

I want to be crushed between their heavenly chests.

>he thinks it was actually piss and not just there to psyche out the senator

kek

So launching two nukes and leaving Superman to drown in a pool and shitting all over his life . . . was not menacing?
As opposed to Gaylord McJollyRancher?

>The fucker literally skimmed through TDKR with little context as to what made that imagery significant to begin with.
He made his own context for it, Cold War shit wouldn't make sense in the modern world.

Superman was likable before he died man, and no one is saying those are the only options, but dont pretend like Snyder's take is somehow inherently worse because it forgoes the more light hearted elements at times.

>thinks it can't be both
Snyderfag Go Home

The opposite extreme is also true for many people. Just because you are an exception to this does not mean that isn't the case.

I don't care about any of these characters and I'm not invested because they're just going to get dragged through the mud for two hours to save a populace that doesn't deserve saving This isn't even a console war thing; X-men movies are getting to have that same problem.

>He thinks Lex would make such a low brow joke to begin with

>keeps calling him gay like its a bad thing

these are the kind of people that hate Snyder movies, gay bashers.

So you don't understand the superhero genre either and you are the absolute perfect Zack Snyder fan. Understood.

Hackmans Lex was not menacing. In the first film is Nuke plan fails and he spends the second film trying to cozy up to Zod. The fuck are you talking about? Eisenbergs Lex was also shit. The only on screen Luthor to ever appear close to menacing was Kevin Spacey

youtube.com/watch?v=UaCu2C3234c

>If the ONLY way to make a character likable is to KILL them you're not a very good writer.
Clark was plenty likable, the issue isn't weather humanity likes him, it is weather he can be trusted which a realistic humanity will never ever do without absolute cause.

Lex in the comics once propositioned a waitress to have sex with him for a ton of money, and left before she answered just to destroy her sense of self worth. So yes, it is exactly what Lex would do.

Sure it can, but in no way does it have to be piss and no where is it blatantly stated to be piss. So to get mad that it may or may not be piss is stupid.

>So launching two nukes
How he altered their data was the most cringy slap stick bullshit I have ever witnessed.

Snyder's Lex got the US government to launch a nuke at Superman, captured his mom, made him bow to him, and actually killed Superman. How is THAT not menacing?

>It's no secret. Me and a select group of nitpicky faggots high on 'memberberries are none too pleased with the way the DCEU...

FTFY, not gonna stop them from being made any time soon

>because it forgoes the more light hearted elements at times.
The vast majority of the time.

Here's a thought.
Superman has been 'killed' by Doomsday, and will end up fighting Darkseid shortly after.
And it's only been two movies of this nonsense.
Do you see the problem?
The problem here is, Superman has just suffered the worst possible physical torture he could ever hope to experience: getting stabbed through the chest, by Doomsday, while exposed to kryptonite.
This has effectively killed not Superman but ANY kind of tension for his longevity.

Just because they are realistically and rationally fearful doesn't mean they aren't worth saving, that is absurd.

>the issue isn't weather humanity likes him,
Talking about the audience, not the characters in the story. Yeah, the characters mourned him. And the audience found it trite and unearned.

Go ahead and elaborate on that sentence further. I dare you

Because he killed Mercy, damn it.

Superheroes are meant to be escapism, I get that, but if their are no stakes then everything transpiring on screen is just meaningless fluff.

B-but that's rushing it! How can I relate to these characters if everyone hasn't had their origin movie?!

Snyder defines humanity exclusively by its flaws. ergo, they're trash. Superman lacks the vocal humanism that justifies his outlook and projects that outlook for the benefit of the audience, and you keep going "no that's silly and campy and unnecessary and not serious"

EXPLAIN IT THEN FUCKER!

And thats a bad thing? Lots and lots and lots of comics do that. And compare Snyder's work to something like Kelly/Casey/Johns's Superman: Ending Battle which has exactly 1 scene of levity and its a Bizarro joke.

In Snyder's take there are whole scenes dedicated to happier moments. Like Superman flying for the first time, or the joke about him being hot from the soldier, him saving the soldiers in the Zod battle, when he saved Lois during their first encounter, him helping the waitress in the bar, Pa Kent saying "you are my son" and thats just in MoS.

How does an on the nose piss joke equate to giving a waitress false hope then pulling the rub underneath her last minute?

If anything thats more menacing.

This is what happens when you have no respect for the character or his associated mythos.
It's also what happens when you are in an absolute rush to cash in on your rival's success.

It still IS meaningless fluff.
I skipped seeing BvS in theaters the second the Doomsday ad dropped. They didn't even let his death have impact through the movie's denouement.
It's just "super serious for serious mature people". Investment is largely an emotional response and the movies are too sterile to garner that from the overwhelming majority of the audience that *isn't* autistic.