Who am I, Gamling?

>Who am I, Gamling?

Why did King Theoden forget who he was?

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kings usually collect taxes

Dracula and Doc Cochran had him heavily sedated, don't you remember?

Theoden unironically got all the best lines.

temporary insanity from a high stress situation, also saruman possession gave him brain damage

Remembering names is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Token can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Talkin doesn’t ask the question: How did Eragon remember his name? Did he wear a name tag? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragon pursue a policy of systematic naming and tag them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy
That's entirely the fucking point. That's what Tolkien was deliberately trying to emulate
Is GRRM really this much of a brainlet?

GRRM wanted to glorify his own work by criticising Tolkien's, as if to show how much more mature and sophisticated his own work was. I like the series, but he's kind of arrogant and delusional.

Why did Gandalf want theoden to attack 10,000 Uruk-Hai pikemen head on?

Was Gandalf retarded?

>lord of the rings had a very medieval philosphy

you mean him just straight up ripping out huge chunks of the bible and giving it a high fantasy packaging?

Where now are the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the deadwood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

I post this in every LotR thread I see. It's my favourite poem in the novel. I wish they did the whole thing in the film.

I like how everyone always seems to completely miss the point of that line.

The worst part is that the dude wasn't even called Gamling, but Hamling. A nickname he earned from the Rohan people because he was known to have sex with pigs, was a bit fat, and spent his evenings writing SarumanXGandalf gay fanfiction. It was a good nickname as nicknames go.
The point of Theoden calling him Gamling instead of Hamling was to show Theoden's increasing dementia (also seen in the "who am I?" line) and self-proclaimed unworthiness to lead his people. It made Theoden look weak and vulnerable, that was the point.

Why is Sup Forums so autistic about artists being influenced by other artists? Literally 99% of art is about reinterpreting, recreating, and subverting pre-existing works of art. It doesn't make you a hack. Fucking Shakespeare, Mozart, and Chaucer '''''ripped off''''' other artists

Deepest lore

:I

It's always a shame when people take things at face value instead of reading between the lines and close-reading these things. It's so annoying
>haha who am i gambling
Those memes need to die. Let LotR be interpreted by actual scholars, not 15-year-old children who make rage comics at night while trying not to wake up their parents.

> It's an every fantasy story with a martyr figure is a bible ripoff episode

>the Bible
You what now?

>rage comics
Did you just wake up from mind control from 2010?

It owes far to Malory than to the Bible, retard

You should read the Bible some time. The story is a very common one used throughout literature since the dawn of time. Bible wasn't the first one, but the archetypes are found in so many novels.

Is this a taxposting or lore thread make your mind up guys!

What do you mean? What archetype/story from the Bible are you referring to and how does it relate to LOTR?

Just google it, it's so obvious. But I'll type up a few
>Frodo is Jesus, he bears the burden of the ring/the cross, is helped by Sam when he can't carry it, like Jesus was helped with carrying the cross
>Gandalf resurrecting from certain death and becoming more angelical/holy then before
>The entire good vs evil trope, forgiving those who have done wrong (sparing Gollum ended up being crucial to destroying the ring)

There's entire books about Tolkien's works and Christianity published by renowned scholars. Educate yourself.

>I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

>this entire post

Tolkien's always famously denied any allegories and metaphors, but it's not up to him to decide whether they're in there. Literature 101 will show you that the author has very, very little to say about his texts.

>There's entire books about Tolkien's works and Christianity
Recommend me one. Preferably one that you've read

Meanwhile...
>She was sopping wet when he entered her. “Damn you,” she said. “Damn you damn you damn you.” He sucked her nipples till she cried out half in pain and half in pleasure. Her cunt became the world.

>And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast.

>The ship groaned and growled beneath him like a constipated fat man straining to shit.

>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

>The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing

>Frodo is Jesus
Top kek. This theory begins and ends with him bearing a burden and carrying it up a hill. The book goes out of its way to make the point that he's a completely ordinary Hobbit with a penchant for adventure. How the actual fuck could you possibly think he's meant to be Jesus?

That seems to be a really big stretch. Particularly because Tolkien wanted to create his own pre-Christian mythology and based most of it on old Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon lore.

I could sort of see the connection to the Silmarillion but definitely not to Lord of the Rings

>>Gandalf resurrecting from certain death and becoming more angelical/holy then before
This is so lazy and vague that I doubt you thought about it for more than 30 seconds

embarassing post

Google.

There's scholars who devoted their life to interpreting Tolkien's work. It's nearing 5am and I don't feel like opening my library when it could just take ten seconds of your time to google this and find out there's credited people out there and the discussion is still ongoing. It's like I'm teaching a bunch of 10-year-old children. Fucking go out there and educate yourself.

Here's another mindscrew, Harry Potter did the exact same thing. Go figure. Go google. Go investigate. Go educate yourself. Christ.

There's a lot of Christian symbolism in it, and everyone saying there is none is wrong, but those are not it.

Its not bible, its just a very common and popular mythological trope. the "Torch carrier" if you will. And LotR is no different, very inspired by myths. In fact I would equate Frodos part more like David and the Goliath in terms of impact.

>Google
L M A O
>There's scholars who devoted their life to interpreting Tolkien's work
Yes, and most of them acknowledge the strong Christian themes in his work. Absolutely none of them claim LOTR is an allegory of the Bible as you do, or that Frodo is Jesus.

AMERICAN TOLKIEN

I worry sometimes that in a very distant future people will believe that there's a core of truth in Lotr, that some of the events actually happened.

Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

>the sight of their arousal was arousing

>very distant future
How about right now?
blog.world-mysteries.com/ancient-writings/tolkiens-middle-earth-true-history/
You didn't know that Sauron is based on a real life ancient alien that wiped out the dwarves and Hobbits?

I have read the Bible. I went to bible school. Still don't see how LotR ripped it off.

I'm unsure if this is bait but god damn does it piss me off because it seems like what every shitty literary critic unimaginative lit teacher would actually believe

>Everyone who said you're wrong is wrong, but you're wrong too
Literally kill yourself

Anyone else here seriously reading the Silmarillion?

>loreposting in a meme thread

I meant google as in, "look it up". Any educational source will do.

>Yes, and most of them acknowledge the strong Christian themes in his work.
Obviously. Tolkien famously denied putting in these and many other themes for reasons of his own, but they're still there. I never claimed that LotR is an allegory of the Bible, merely that it uses tropes that were in the Bible, much like how the Bible uses tropes from literary texts before it.

Frodo as Jesus is a disputed point I grant you, but the bare essentials are there. Carrying the burden of all living beings of the world on instruction by Gandalf who is a God-like figure sending Frodo on this quest to save humanity. I'm not saying Tolkien wrote Frodo as Jesus, just that there are multiple similarities in their lives. Carrying the burden, selfless torture to save others, others he never even met. Unable to carry the burden near the end, which is where a personification of a "good" person comes in to help him share the load. Tolkien didn't intend of Frodo being Jesus, but there's a lot of stuff that coincides, much like every great adventure story.
They're tropes is all I'm saying.

You're fucking retarded. Tolkien isn't GURRM, he's not going to beat you over the head with shit like
>DANY REPRESENT DUBYA BECAUSE SHE MESS UP MIDDLE EAST
You have to actually put thought into what he wrote. The Ring was destroyed on March 25. You know what else happened on March 25? The Annunciation. So what was destroyed on March 25 then? Whqt could Tolkien possibly be implying the Ring represents? What does that say about people completely under the Ring's control like Gollum and the Ringwraiths?

JFC use your brain.

It's not a rip-off. I am merely stating that certain tropes in literature are reoccurring, throughout the centuries. I'm not bashing Tolkien, I respect the man a lot.
What you need to understand is that there are certain archetypes in literature, certain characters and roles, certain elements.
It's like how a play has five acts. Most literature use the basic concept, but obviously in different ways. There's a hero, a villain, an adviser to the hero, a goal to strive for, a conclusion.

The author is dead, in a sense. Whatever an author might imply or allude to can be different to how readers interpret it. There's a freedom there that's healthy. If everyone took religious texts as gospel we'd be in terrible trouble. Which we are.
The freedom to interpret texts and give your own opinion is a good thing, as long as it's backed up in some credible way.

>annunciation
>25th of March
Educate me

The Annunciation is when Christ was conceived

So the Ring was destroyed on the same day and month that Jesus was conceived? I'm all for Christianity stuff in LotR but what did Tolkien mean by this?
Evil was unmade at the same time that good was being created?

One interpretation is that the Ring represents sin. Christ becoming Man allowed us to defeat sin. Men would desire to use sinful, evil methods to achieve good, but in the process lose their soul, become a shell of their true selves, like Gollum or the Ringwraiths, completely controlled by sin, etc.

Again, Tolkien despised allegory, but not applicability. He didn't want to slap you in the face with a message. It's up to you to read his work and draw what lessons YOU can from it, apply what experiences you've had to the challenges characters must overcome in the story.

>Token
>Talkin
>Eragon
>Aragon

good bait, I give it a perfect 5/7

>DANY REPRESENT DUBYA BECAUSE SHE MESS UP MIDDLE EAST
I'm pretty sure the third book was released before dubya was even sworn in.

Worst post I've EVER read.

...

>Oh, and before this council disperses, have I ever told you about the time Sauron and his forces were nearly destroyed by some no name Gondorian warrior who managed to enslave most of his Orc armies? He was possessed by the ghost of Celebrimbor and together they made a new, super strong ring of power a couple years ago. They then defeated the Witch King in 1v1 combat and dominated his mind. He also killed Isildur, who wasn't actually killed by orcs but became a ring wraith instead, and took his place. Also, the elf ghost also beat Sauron in a fight and dominated his mind and now there's no real Sauron but two ghosts dueling for control. He was a good friend.

...

...

You realize this is the joke in a post about having trouble remembering names, right?

Or are you just completely oblivious to what the word "bait" means?

LOL wat epsode of GoT is dis and also you GoT (heh get it) any MEEMS for it??? xD

DEEEEEEATH

What a shitty post.

This nigga rhymed nigga with nigga.

My pastor is a huge LOTR nut, and we have spent a considerable amount of time discussing the various biblical and Christian themes within the LOTR series. However, you'd have to be full fucking retard to just say LOTR is a biblical knockoff. There are a few parallels sure, but only in variously vague concepts. The vast majority of the series was written to stand on it's own within it's own context, the various parallels are simply afterthoughts that we as the readers can glean from it.

>Whatever an author might imply or allude to can be different to how readers interpret it
You can argue that a writer may have used themes in his writing he picked up subconsciously without his knowledge, or with enough evidence make some kind of case that for some weird reason he's lying, but individual interpretation does not override an author's implications or allusions. If they did all texts would effectively mean nothing altogether because of the more arbitrary nature of the average reader compared to the author.

>If everyone took religious texts as gospel we'd be in terrible trouble
What does that have to do with death of the author? You're argument would mean we'd be "in trouble" if people took the writers of the Bible at their word, not the text.

You forgot that fucking Shelob was really a female human. She was a good friend.