I don't mind Batman killing people, but why would he not kill Harley Quinn, who explicitly helped kill Robin, and Joker...

I don't mind Batman killing people, but why would he not kill Harley Quinn, who explicitly helped kill Robin, and Joker, who implicitly killed Robin? Why spare those two and kill minor smugglers and flunkies working for Luthor?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ozFOtI-O7KI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Because he cares for his insane friends but hates normies

>Why spare those two
So they can be in more movies and earn WB money

because its explicitly said he goes bad AFTER Superman arrives, and Joker and Harley are already locked up by that point

BvS never said anything about Joker and Harley Quinn, but SS said that Joker and Harley Quinn were hiding before being spotted by Batman. Batman only managed to apprehend her.

Why he didn't kill her, though? Well, SS takes place after Superman's death and by then Batman has changed.

SS says Harley helped kill Robin in her little intro blurb (presumably with Joker). There's no way that happened after BvS, since Robin didn't appear in it.

It happened before, but SS left implicit that they were just that good at hiding.

Because foresight doesn't exist to Snyder and co.

Now if you don't excuse me, I'm going to TMNT2 again to dull the pain.

Because it would be too damned easy.
/thread

It's not like Batman is a serial killer. It's more like Batman kill if the criminals resist too much to arrest and there's no other option. Also, as other mentioned he got soft again after the events of BvS

>There's no way that happened after BvS, since Robin didn't appear in it.

Robin's death didn't automatically make Batman a killer, it was just one contributing factor. MoS was what pushed him off the ledge and during that one year between MoS and BvS Batman just didn't find Joker or Harley, dum-dum.

Batman only started to really lose faith in everything after the the recent destruction of Metropolis because the whole ordeal exacerbated his feelings of powerlessness and guilt.

Even then throughout the movie he's conflicted about his decision to end his life by trying to kill Superman. He doesn't even kill anyone in the beginning. He only start to kill after the Capitol bombing, when the wheelchair dude who was his ex employee is blamed for killing everyone out of revenge against Superman and Batman receives those returned checks where the wheelchair dude blames him for not taking care of him and the other employees. So that's when Batman loses his shit and decide to go with his plan for good stomping everything on his path without any care. He's desperate and angry.

He doesn't kill people, he lets them die. That's how he justifies it to himself and is the entire central part of his character arc in BvS. He was jaded and pissed off and started to feel criminals deserved to die.

Batman uses a gatling gun in his car to kill a ton of goons, and he detonates a flamethrower gas container to kill a dude threatening Mrs Kent.

>and he detonates a flamethrower gas container to kill a dude threatening Mrs Kent.

The flamethrower wouldn't explode if the guy hadn't pulled the trigger, though. The guy detonated it himself.

>Batman kill if the criminals resist too much to arrest and there's no other option

Hello r.eddit user, who only pic panels without context.

>detonates a flamethrower gas container to kill a dude threatening Mrs Kent.

That guy was KGBeast. I would bet money that he will show up alive and missing an arm in either The Batman or the next Suicide Squad.

How does Batman have any moral authority over his rogues now that he's a killer
>"Sorry Catwoman, I've got to put you away for ribbing this jewelry store"
>"But Batman, you're a killer. What punishment did you face"
He's literally a killer that will never face justice for his crimes. How can he continue to put put his rogues away? Let alone lead the fucking Justice League?

>That guy was KGBeast. I would bet money that he will show up alive and missing an arm in either The Batman or the next Suicide Squad.

And in SS2, he can lose his head! Pottery!

He's atoning for his actions.

I doubt it. They aren't afraid of killing minor characters. See Mercy Graves.

This plot point was literally in the trailer
>youtube.com/watch?v=ozFOtI-O7KI

didn't waller kill him?

>I'm real sorry I killed those people
So he's above the law and a hypocrite since he doesn't have to face justice the way he makes him villains.

He's literally saving the entire planet in the next movie though

Yes.

Nah, doesn't work that way. You can't start killing people every time you feel down and stop when you feel better.

The next time Batman has a bad period he gets to go back to killing?

Yes, you can, user. If you feel sorry enough and try hard enough to make everything okay, you can.

Look at the Avengers in the comics. Tony's always being forgiven for his craps.

>Oh damn I killed people gotta stop being Batman forever
>Is that an armed robbery happening in front of me? Not my problem no sir
>Oh haha what's that the Joker escaped again and 56 people are suspected dead? Can't do anything about it now Batman's gone
>Justice League needs some tactical advice and access to my fortune to save the world? But that guy I killed though... :(

>Robin died and Metropolis was destroyed
>ARGH I AM CONSUMED BY RAGE SLAUGHTER EVERYBODY
>okay I'm better no
>some bad shit happens later
>ARGH I AM CONSUMED BY RAGE SLAUGHTER EVERYBODY

This definitely sounds like someone we should allow to operate above the law.

>try hard enough to make everything okay

Unless you can raise the dead you can't make it okay. And there's no guarantee you won't do it again next time you have a bad day.

If you're going to be the Punisher, just be the Punisher. You can't have it both ways.

You know Batman casually killing thugs via batmobile/batwing kind of takes the piss out of the moral dilemma about killing Superman.

Bruce's rage in BvS was a one-off, not just "hurr I'm mad." When he confides to Alfred about how he's basically planning his own suicide, he mentions that his success could be the one thing he does that ever matters. He isn't just slaughtering people left and right whenever he's mad. In BvS, he was literally broken because once Superman showed up, he thought the unstoppable potential for such large scale evil nullified everything. If Superman goes rogue and just kills everyone, then there was no reason for him, everything he did, and his entire life to have existed at all.

Batman only killed those people (the thugs in the cars) because he was desperate on getting his hands on that sweet kryptonite that would allow him to kill Superman.

And there's no moral dilemma. Batman just wanted to off himself trying to kill Superman because he lost faith in what he did and thought that Superman would lose it someday too since it's all a lie.

He has ALWAYS worked outside the law

Yeah but his entire "oh god what have I become!?" shit is kind of weak regardless given the context

I disagree, user. I don't know what else to say. We can over the context, but i don't know if we will be able to agree with each other.

>Batman uses a gatling gun in his car to kill a ton of goons
Shouldn't have been in the car :^)
Not his problem!

That makes up for him needlessly killing a bunch of people out of anger how?

Yes, but that's tolerated because he's not a killer. Compare with the Punisher.

>gotta stop being Batman forever
More like he should hand himself over to the authorities to face justice.
>the Joker escaped again and 56 people are suspected dead?
yeah but he feels real bad about it now and is totally going to make up for it. therefore all is forgiven right?

The dead guys aren't complaining.

>More like he should hand himself over to the authorities to face justice.

Why would he do that when he knows that something big and dangerous is coming to Earth and there's no one else to convince and recruit these meta-humans to stand together against now that there's no Superman?

all those heroes are criminals

So he'll hand himself over once the JL is assembled and Superman is back?

it's almost like BvS is a terrible movie to start a cinematic universe but people can't admit it

Probably. Some day, for sure.

Neither are the people the Joker killed (that he's no very sorry for)

...

Let's hope nothing triggers him again in the mean time. Although if he feels bad about it again afterwords all is forgiven again right?

Meh. I kinda liked because of how odd and surprising it was. Feels like anything goes.

Of course, now that the movies were bashed and under-performed they'll play it very safe. So i'm mostly banking on some producer or director's crazyness to see if there'll be more outlandish idea.

Maybe if he compulsively saves people and his continued existence saves Gotham numerous times again

This, exactly. BvS happens in the middle of Batman's story. We were expected to go "I can't believe BATMAN is killing people! What could have happened to him?" but instead we just go "Oh. I guess Batman kills people in this universe. That's pretty out of character."

>people can't admit it

I'm pretty sure the fact that BvS was a very thinly veiled "WE WANT THE AVENGERS MARKET" franchise starter was one of the chief complaints most people had about the movie.

Batman might be addicted to murder, man. Have you thought about that? You're here judging him and the dude has an addiction.

Shouldn't he give his rogues the same chance? He took Deadshot straight to prison in SS.
>killing anyone you want is fine so long as you make up for it afterwords

Yeah but he feels bad about it afterwords right? so that makes it all ok right?

I doubt people would be up for another Batman's solo movie detailing his origin or something. Of course, now they're because they got curious about this new version.

>killing asian Mercy

Such a waste...

Deadshot didn't wanted to stop killing. Also, Deadshot's black. Totally different.

Superman should've been the killer in the film, and Bats reforms him. like, killing Zod made him realize that, for the greater good, baddies should die.

How about neither one of them is a killer but Batman fears Superman could do it anytime he likes.

Instead of Batman being a hypocrite and doing the exact fucking thing he apparently hates Superman for.
>this ALIEN just kills and causes mass destruction with no regard for the law

>Batman just wanted to off himself trying to kill Superman because he lost faith in what he did and thought that Superman would lose it someday too since it's all a lie.

The problem with that is the dream/future vision confirms exactly what he was afraid of. Superman DOES go evil and he DOES end the world. It'd be one thing if it was a dream but Flash coming back to the present is proof that this was a future timeline.

It wouldn't have to be an origin. Hell, it could even be the death of Jason Todd. But you need to set up the fall of the hero's moral code in order for it to be effective. Otherwise you just have your hero look like a lunatic. In fact, it would've been way more effective if Batman didn't kill people, but still came to the conclusion that Superman needed to die. We could've had scenes of him coming to terms with crossing that line once and for all, and that this threat is worth breaking his highest moral code. Then we would've had a reason to care, instead of nothing.

Yup. That scene is kinda of... whatever, but in the movie at least in the end Superman shows to Batman that heroism still exists.

I understand you. I like MoS and BvS, but i think that BvS tried to cram too much in a single movie.

For example i know that BvS tried to give off the idea that Superman was beloved by the people in the beginning, but that comes off as meaningless as a straight sequel to MoS because we don't get to see much Superman transitioning from a controversial figure to a beloved hero who have his reputation sullied by Lex's machinations.

So the best case scenario would be if they had done MoS 2, Batman, Wonder Woman and then BvS. The only problem with these movies is that at least for the latter two they've to end in bad ending.

About the other point, i don't mind so much Batman killing people in the movie because it had been established that he was depressed and treating his entire mission, code, life, efforts, et all as a terrible. So him offing people made sense to me.

Superman is a faggot and an hypocrite.
He didn't care about Batman killing when it was going to save his mom.

GCPD tolerated Batman in the earlier movies despite causing destruction and criminals dying. Especially the Burton ones. And it's not like Batfleck was murdering everyone he encountered as Batman, as we saw with the guy apprehended for human trafficking. The police turning a blind eye to Batman's activities when as long as it's not blatant murder is entirely believable after twenty years on the job.

It's clear as day that Batman is in denial of his own hypocrisy. That's why he repeatedly is shown defending his actions to Alfred until he basically admits that he's on suicide mission.

Alternative bad end timelines that never come to pass is a piss poor argument, broheim.

>It's clear as day that Batman is in denial of his own hypocrisy

Which would be fine if the resolution to Batman's arc wasn't predicated on a piece of Snapple Cap Trivia about his mom's name instead of putting any actual character work into the resolution of the story.

She's hot.

>But you need to set up the fall of the hero's moral code in order for it to be effective.
Batman is iconic enough that everybody already knows his thing, so you can immediately jump into subverting it. Seeing him being so sadistic and brutal while providing context for his fall by hinting that bad stuff happened in the past with Black Zero, Robin's memorial and Wayne Manor being abandoned is all you need if you have half a brain to process the provided information.
>Otherwise you just have your hero look like a lunatic
That's sort of the point. Vigilantes are lunatics from the outside. Who fucking devotes twenty years of their lives to dress up like a bat and beat the shit out of criminals every single night? Not a normal person.

Why did Superman not turn in Batman when he saw him killing people in the street but yet he wanted to get involved with what warlords were doing in Africa?

Because if you arrest your enemies, they win.

But the thing wasn't just about their mothers sharing the same name. It was actually more about Batman's father than it was about his mother.

Throughout the whole movie you've Batman feeling like he has failed his parents by not doing well as either Batman, the protector of Gotham, since Gotham hasn't changed for good one bit, or as Bruce Wayne, the CEO of Wayne Enterprises, because of what happened in Metropolis. He feels that his parents died for nothing, that the bat thing was a stupidity and that he failed their legacies. Specially he feels that he failed his father who died protecting his family. The fact that he's older than his father was only serves to make him feel more useless.

So the "Martha" scene is more about Batman seeing his own father in Superman. That's what's mostly about. Superman was lying there on the floor about the be killed while muttering his mother's name. They even repeat the scene with Thomas dying the same way. That's what gave Batman PTSD making him angry and going crazy demanding from Superman why he said that name. Then Lois show up explaining the situation and he feels like a crap.

Basically, Superman reminding him of his dad dying also reminded him that he was behaving like Joe Chill, but he didn't had enough time to deal on it because a woman named like his mother needed help. This was almost like a second chance to save his own mother.

Superman didn't get involved with warlords, he only went there to save Lois.

Because there's still a planet.

And he got involved with them, he smashed that guy through a wall

Superman stopped the warlord from killing Lois. The sole reason he was there was because of Lois. Once he punched the guy through the wall and rescued Lois he got the fuck out of there.

So why didn't he do anything to Batman who he had just seen kill a bunch of people?

He only SCARED him, remember that's fine but branding isn't.

Also only Batman should respect laws because he is a lowly human which in these movies are either compared to dogs or horses.

And they cram all of that into 45 seconds so we could have another hour of Doomdsay ripping buildings in half.

2 hours of simmering character and thematic tension resolved in seriously under two minutes. It's disgusting. You can write all the fan theories you want about "what it means" but it doesn't resolve anything, it throws half a dozen possible theories at you and lets the fans defend it instead of sticking to anything.

I doubt what i wrote is merely my headcanon. Otherwise they wouldn't repeat the scene with Thomas dying, but whatever.

Snyder's Superman is a bizarre attempt to retell the Hulk mythos, father issues, years spent wandering apart from society, boiling rage and solving every dilemma by Smashing it.

The only significant difference now is that Bruce is a scientist and Clark is a moron.

To be fair those guys were mostly taken down in self-defense. They were, after all, shooting him with a gatling gun and rocket launchers. And for context, Batman had a twenty year old record of mostly being liked in Gotham and helping people, and only in the past year going off the handle. So when Superman confronted Batman, he was willing to offer him an ultimatum to retire or the next time he'd take him down. And he did stop Batman from pursuing Lex's men when he intervened. The warlord was an infamous war criminal using Lois as a hostage and just before that he was going to murder her. Entirely different circumstances.

Casually taking out the bad guys as you prevent a crime from being committed is very different from decisively hunting a specific person down in order to murder them.
The former is cold and detached, while the latter is personal and emotional.

I'm not saying that either is necessarily better or worse, I'm just saying that they are two very different mentalities.

People only justify this Superman because he is called Superman, otherwise they would see he is a giant hypocrite

>remember that's fine but branding isn't.

Well fire branding someone is a form torture, after all. Giving someone a scare isn't.

>repeated unwarranted conflicts with the military
>gratuitous collateral damage
>becomes excessively violent when love interest is in danger
>Fights enemies with the same origin for their powers, one who becomes a monstrous abomination

What else have I missed?

You do know that pre-Nu52 Superman spent years wandering around aimlessly before deciding to help others using his powers.

Even then he got scared shitless when he saved the space-shuttle and the reporters ganged up on him. That's when he came back home and together with his parents came up with the costumes and disguises

Pre-nu52 Superman also always had a temper and was quick to punch the problems away.

>self defense

He rammed a couple of mooks sitting in a car doing nothing and then he dragged around the car they were in behind him like a tin can.

Holy shit user, this is true.

what sliver of Superman's interminable run of comics had him drifting around North America?

In 60+ years, these characters have briefly been everything.

In the real world of course it is because we know it's just another trope of spandex soap operas but to the characters it's definitely something that's eye opening.

>but ur mom's name is martha now so it's ok

That was preventive action, they were equally heavily armed bad guys. Of course he used excessive force but that's what made him a target for Superman in the first place.

>You do know that pre-Nu52 Superman
I've read Superman comics off and on since the late 70's, when was the David Banner era of Superman?

That was a big part of post-CoIE Superman origin. That he traveled the world soul-searching before deciding what to do with his life and powers.

He went to a lot of countries, worked at a lot of odd jobs, fucked a lot of foreign girls and even teamed-up once with a pre-Batman Bruce Wayne.

BvS is everything I would expect from a Superman fanboy who barely knows anything about Batman