Wallace quotes Genesis 30:22 >Then God remembered Rachel, and God heeded her and opened her womb. referring to Rachel giving birth despite being a replicant. We're informed this was Tyrell's experiment, Tyrell is called the "God of biomechanics" and referred to as "Father" by Roy in the original. In Genesis, Rachel is the wife of Jacob who is later named Israel, and becomes the father of that nation. Rachel's child will become the ancestor of a new independent nation or people (the replicants) because of her ability to reproduce.
The passage immediately following is Genesis 30:23-24a >She conceived and bore a son, and said, ‘God has taken away my reproach’; and she named him Joseph This is a reference to the misdirect that K ("Joe") is the miraculous birth.
The existence of Ana, the real miraculous birth, is covered up by her record saying she died of Galatian syndrome. Galatians is a book in the New Testament in which Paul (the author) discusses another miraculous pregnancy: Sarah's, the wife of Abraham (grandfather of Jacob/Israel). He goes on to mention the expulsion of Hagar, another wife of Abraham, who's (non-miraculously born) son is disinherited. This is a reference to the replicants' view that they can only inherit humanity through a miraculous pregnancy: Rachel's daughter Ana.
Additionally, in Galatians, Paul describes how he used to persecute Christians before converting. This refers to Deckard, who used to persecute replicants, but "converted" to understanding them, which allowed him to become the father of the miraculous child, Ana.
Wallace is trying to succeed Tyrell as the "God of biomechanics", he calls his inner sanctum heaven and Luv an angel. Paley's watchmaker analogy is about how nature appears designed by a creator, and this has been satirised by the term "blind watchmaker" for an unguided natural process which doesn't involve a creator. Wallace has aspirations for godhood but he's the (literally) blind watchmaker, his godhood is false.
James Edwards
This kino has so much fucking layers to it.
Jack Rogers
bump
Juan Reyes
fuck off, Rick
David Russell
Miscellaneous details:
K finds the wooden horse by playing one note on Sapper's piano that doesn't work. In the original, Deckard plays one note repeatedly when he has the daydream about the unicorn, drawing a connection about possibly implanted memories. A further connection is Rachel playing the piano in the original and saying she doesn't know if her memories of learning to play are her own or implanted, just as K doesn't know if his memory of the horse is implanted.
Galatian syndrome is also a nod to Sebastian in the original who has Methuselah syndrome, another biblical name, in that case ironic because he's short-lived.
The fragments of Deckard and rachel's conversation K and Luv listen to is from their first meeting scene. Before the Voight-Kamp test Rachel asks Deckard a "personal question" about retiring a human by mistake. Luv does the same by asking K if he enjoys his job. But in the latter case the outcome is the total opposite, while Deckard and Rachel fall in love, K and Luv become enemies and instead of one creating life with the other, one removes life from the other. Deckard lives at the end, K dies at the end.
Cameron Rogers
K also plays the same note in the piano before meeting Deckard and his dog.
Luis Ortiz
Retire yourself brainlet
Brandon Price
You guys have gone full BvS retard on this movie
Isaac Reyes
It's all ironic, though
Dylan Morgan
Outstanding. >directors puts a reference >dude finds out and write about it >you: REEEEEEEEE this is exactly how pathetic you sound now
James Nelson
This
Ayden Flores
is that an actual Struzan?
Mason Edwards
>You guys have gone full BvS retard on this movie BvS was surface level philosophy like The Problem of Evil quoted by Luthor which everyone lost their shit over.
This genuinely has layers, fuck it's even kafkaesque: >In Franz Kafka's novel Der Prozess, the main character is named Josef K. >In Blade Runner 2049, the main character is named K, but later takes the name Joe. Thus, Joe K. >Josef K. is killed by a knife wound, which gut him "like a dog" >Joe K. dies from knife wounds to his stomach and chest >Josef K. is killed on his 30th birthday >Joe K. is killed 30 years after the events of the original Blade Runner
Nathan Murphy
whoa so deep
Joseph Wilson
>calls BvS surface level, then recites surface level information from 2049
Also references don't make something layered otherwise family guy would be the most layered show in history. It's not hard throwing shit from other shit into your shit, it's actually what you do when you don't have substance.
Jose Stewart
Just how many levels of pottery is Villeneuve at?
Liam King
>Just how many levels of pottery is Villeneuve at?
>BvS The virgin nu-male atheist flick with muh god quotes
>2049 BTFO atheism and muh fake gods, finds his humanity nonetheless
Oliver Hughes
>Also references don't make something layered This is, generally speaking, very true but think that there is more in 2049. Explore the role of the man in Kafka, and see the situation K is in at the beginning of the movie. My point is: the reference is there not only for the sake of it.
Mason Gonzalez
A main theme in Kafka is the lose of control in regard of what you expect from the world, Your reality begins to fall to pieces, even in a surreal way, a and you find yourself against powers and wills that do not let you have the world built around you. 2049 has this in K revelation, and a bit too in his role at the beginning of the movie. 2049 IS genuinely 'Kafkaesque', regardless what the pseudointellectuals and the drooling retards on this board state to look respectively cool or smart.
Andrew Taylor
That's broad enough to be applied to a lot of movies, who fucking cares if something is Kafka-esque. references don't make the movie more enjoyable just lets you pat yourself on the back for making the connection, if anything that takes you out of the experience if you actively think about that during the movie
Robert Howard
>if anything that takes you out of the experience if you actively think Look man, maybe we just have different thought process but this did not take me out of the experience. During watching it was just a subconscious way suggest me the kind of story I was watching, and the rest was elaboration after i watched the movie, and a further motivation to re-watch it. You put it in a way as if thinking about something is a chore.
Michael Reed
>people point out kafka reference >REEE those are shallow references >people point out the reference make sense >REEE who cares about Kafka wew lad
Mason Sanchez
So the movie relies on something else for you to understand what kind of story you are watching? Shouldn't the story itself tell you what you are watching?
Right the reference is subconscious, this sort of thing happens in a lot of movies I watch, but it isn't something worth mentioning. It also doesn't weigh in on my opinion of the movie either.
Asher Jones
Theme of Kafka is only applied to the plot of K, still looks pretty shallow to me
Joshua Roberts
Oh is this thread Villanueve's studio? Also a chair that references other chairs...
Jose Diaz
>Joe K. >Joseph Kafka Wh-whoa...
Elijah Torres
>art should have no frame of reference whatsoever, all its meaning should be obvious to someone with no knowledge of other art at all
Owen Murphy
Never said Art can't make references, just that it doesn't add depth to it.
Nicholas Gomez
This is fucking pathetic. >Theme of Kafka is only applied to the plot of K, still looks pretty shallow to me This is a pretty weak argument. The movie is not required to be dedicated as a whole to Kafka. There is a parallelism in the themes and this is where the reference was drawn. You decided arbitrarily that the reference must be on the whole movie, because reasons. >So the movie relies on something else for you to understand what kind of story you are watching? Shouldn't the story itself tell you what you are watching? This is one of the most ignorant statements I ever read in this board. You can follow the movie just fine. When a well executed reference is present, it enhances your enjoyment for a number of reasons. It drives better home the message of the authors, it can subconsciously help the viewer, if aware, with themes, tone and whatnot, and finally, as an afterthought, has a "meta" value of recognizing the research and knowledge of the author and of the viewer (but this can devolve in wanking pretty fast if unsubtle or if the reference is from the usual pool - I guess this is what people mean sometimes when they define something "reddit"). >Right the reference is subconscious, this sort of thing happens in a lot of movies I watch, but it isn't something worth mentioning. This is when the reference is well made. The reference "in your face" are from tryhard wannabesmart hacks. >It also doesn't weigh in on my opinion of the movie either. Because you have decided that the movie is bad and you are going to ignore or dismiss any evidence of the opposite. Your post is a huge giveaway of this.
Grayson Young
>Theme of Kafka is only applied to the plot of K, still looks pretty shallow to me YOU
William Cruz
>just that it doesn't add depth to it. "I am no understand what dis about"
Isaiah Myers
>dude, the movie has references about Kafka to bring home the point of where the conflict lies >d-hurr
Tyler Young
BvS was actually a good film
Ryan Baker
Don't forget Rachel means Sheep. Well, ewe, but still.
Cameron Morris
Why does giant JOI has black eyes with no iris, pupil, etc.?
PLS RESPOND
Evan Young
Good one, too This is a way to create POTTERY without rubbing it in your face. This is what Lucas meant but he is a good-willed but clumsy guy, so he could not pull it alone
Landon Campbell
How many times have you seen it, lads?
About to see it in the kinoplex for the fourth time
Noah Ward
Twice. Had to go back to see it in IMAX.
Isaiah Ward
he played the note to find the baby sock
Robert Collins
eyes are the windows to the soul pleb
Nicholas Butler
The writers said it was a scene made to underline the difference between the two JOIs and how K's onw was unique.
Ian James
There's still a few things I don't get.
I didn't catch how they got the DNA of the child that K uses the machine that detects matching sets of DNA. Why exactly was K given the memories of Deckard's daughter? Was it just a coincidence or was he meant to be a diversion somehow? How did Wallace know that Deckard would be in Vegas? The goons sure seemed to know who they were coming for.
Cooper Foster
Blade Runner is actually good though
Jaxon Hernandez
>lying on an anonymous image board
Ian Young
The kid was registered at birth as a human kid. Dna sample.
Both.
Luv traced him at the cop's office.
It's true though.
Gavin Anderson
>her eyes were green
Nathan Gonzalez
probably the sock
Sebastian Jackson
I don't think so Tim.
Luis Cox
Fuck off leddit
Caleb White
Hello, imdb!
Anthony Rodriguez
>Pay $20 for IMAX >It's not any different than my local AMC, except the seats are more uncomfortable
Matthew Collins
BvS was shit. 2049 is god-tier
Nicholas White
But even if she traced him, how would they know about Deckard? K wasn't even sure what he'd find.
Luis James
>4d pottery
Jose Powell
>dude I'm God and my minions are angels literally anime tier retarded
John Martinez
They knew he was either after the child or Deckard. I mean, that why they were following hin in the first place.
Oliver Adams
Go with him You would have NEVER posted on Sup Forums if it wasn't for that scum changing the boards ways to fit theirs
Owen Rivera
Three times, twice in IMAX disappointed I'll probably never get to experience this kino in such conditions again
The scene where he's walking through Vegas and it starts with those huge drums that vibrate through your entire body is something I'll miss
Lucas Hughes
You are really blowing this out of proportion. All I'm saying is that outer references don't add depth and don't make a movie better objectively. If you believe so, you are only admitting that a movie requires contextualizing to form an opinion.
I decided the movie was good or bad from watching it, references aren't evidence of anything, unless it references its own themes yea those are worth mentioning becuase that's what actually adds depth to a story when an action serves multiple purposes with in itself
Ultimately references in story are very trivial and if you believe that this movie's or any movie's merit hinges on their references it only makes it weaker
Kayden Hill
K didnt have the childs daughter, he was looking for discrepancies for kids born in that certain date.
Daniel Hill
>Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? >Gaff makes origami sheep/ewe when he explains to K that Deckard had found what he was looking for
Evan Lewis
I think the sheep refers more to K, being used by everyone and not being special, just another replicant or another sheep
Christian Ramirez
I thought so too when I watched the movie, but Rachael meaning Sheep/Ewe plus the inescapable Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? reference really made me think.