What prevented Elrond from slaying Islidur and casting the ring into mount doom himself?

What prevented Elrond from slaying Islidur and casting the ring into mount doom himself?
Is it just in the elves cucky nature to never meddle with other people?

He smart enough to know that the ring would corrupt him if he got near it.

Isildur was a 7ft tall killing machine, just because Sauron fucked his dad up doesn't mean elrond had a chance, that's the crazy thing about the numenorians, imagine an army of mountains from GOT

...

Shock resulting in inaction

They weren't presented as 7ft tall beasts in the films, I haven't read LoTR or the Silmarillion but it doesn't matter because this is Sup Forums - television and film

Wait were all the ancient men 7 feet tall or just the blood line of the kings? Was Aragorn a giant chad? I know aragorn lived for 200 years.

Elendil and Isildur look larger than those around them in the film.
Just the kings.

The same contrived writing that prevented Sauron from killing him after he already killed the two far superior fighters and beat Isildur to the ground.

-Isildiur + Ring would have BTFO Elrond

-Isildur is the hero that has just won the war for the alliance, killing him might have thrown the elves and men into a war

-Elrond probably wasn't 100% sure what the ring could do

>Was Aragorn a giant chad?
yes

>ring makes anyone wielding it super powerful
>merely cutting the finger off breaks its hold

Alright, everpyone, just cut off his index finger.

That's the trick.

Do you even know what contrived means?

If you cannot tell from the context there's always google.

It's actually not possible for anyone to throw the ring into mount doom (gollum was pushed by God). The ring's power to manipulate people is at its strongest there and anyone who touches it falls prey to its will.

why didnt frodo just cut all his fingers off so the ring couldnt tempt him to put it on?

In a moment of triumph Sauron reaches down to neck snap (?) his much weaker opponent, letting down his guard ever so slightly but giving Isildur the opportunity to strike at his one weak point.

It's well established and not "contrived" at all. Especially in a universe where "God" is ever so subtly influencing events towards a victory of light over dark.

You could say that Eowen and Merry vs Witch King is more contrived, Merry just so happens to stab the one bit of the Witch King that's still fleshy.

Cos then what would he wear it on when he finally broke?

>Merry just so happens to stab the one bit of the Witch King that's still fleshy
While wielding a dagger enchanted to slay/aid-in-slaying wraiths

Still could have put it on his cock

>insanely powerful sorcerer
>reaches down with ring hand
>cannot react to opponent grabbing shattered sword and swinging it

No you're right that's not convenience writing at all. Kinda like the very elven sorceress who Sauron just beat makes him stumble so Huan can grab his throat? Nah not contived at all.

By the way, God subtly interfering is a joke right? Like when he sank the numenorian fleet headed for his precious little kids and the whole fucking island? Subtle...Give me a break. Evil has to lose so whenever he wrote himself into a corner the divine intervention device saves the day.

>Isildur is the hero that has just won the war for the alliance, killing him might have thrown the elves and men into a war
Make sense.
So many deaths,then and later on.

In the book,dude had his hand in his pocket,and it was a dwarven made pocket,those things are tough,yo.

Yeah yeah sure, I'm not nitpicking I'm just pointing out that Isildur cutting the ring off Sauron isn't a contrivance.

If you want contrived, look at something like the tests before Harry Potter and his gang can reach the Sorcerers Stone, or the entirety of The Force Awakens.

It's a situation... certain times of the year...um...this guy...
Damnit,You know I'm not good with fancy word learnings!

A ring wraith cannot be killed while the ring exists.
If you're talking contrived how about the super powerful witchking who conquered much of middle earth while sauron was hiding after his defeat and scares Maiars happens upon a man and a bunch of hobbits and instead of just slaughtering them dicks around with a sword and gets set on fire...

Why didn't they just put the ring in a locked box and give it to Gandalf so he could take it to Mordor himself?
>b-but a locked box wouldn't keep Gandalf out
The fraud couldn't even figure out how to get into Moria, I'm sure a magic Dwarven box would have done the trick.

I wasn't disputing what you said, just adding onto it. I agree with you

>A ring wraith cannot be killed while the ring exists.
The daggers enchantment severed the connections and protective magicks which is how she was able to obliterate him for good.
And you're forgetting about the battle they had with gandalf on weathertop prior to the engagement with aragorn, which severely weakened them

>all these wrong faggots.

Firstly, Isildur (if you can't spell his name right, don't pretend to know anything) had the Nu-man-nor-ians bloodline in him. That made him, essentially, super-human.

Secondly, he had a bodyguard of noble-blooded guys around, essentially people similiar to him in strength and power.

Thirdly, Elrond COULD have killed all of them AND Isildur. But he didn't. Why? Because even if he had, he'd have marched out to the waiting armies and they would have asked where their new king was. They'd found out he was dead and they'd have killed the Elves for, you know, killing their king. Elrond said he had seen enough dead Elves that day and did not wish, you know, his ENTIRE FUCKING RACE to be killed. The entire point of that fucking scene in the book was to point out that Elrond was as fucked as men (yes yes Elrond was half-breed but he was an Elf in power) by not having the strength to accept that destroying the ring was worth all of Elves being killed. It's to show that even the smartest and wisest of people will think and care about their own people, even if their actions would have saved billions others.

Are you people retarded? Can you not just google the word if you do not know it?

From merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contrived:
Definition of contrived
:having an unnatural or false appearance or quality :artificial, labored

e.g. a contrived plot

Is god Tolkien?

>story is about a journey to destroy an artifact of evil
>it's artificial and labored to have the journey be more than a couple hundred pages long
Okay

>gollum was pushed by God
so gollum was in gods plan all along and all those fucking people died because muh god worx in misteerious wayz

Right. That makes total sense, that they got their asses handed to them for half an age by him and watched him slaughter thousands of their kind when all it took was a little enchantment.

Sauron is a schemer, but it's constantly pointed out that his main flaw is hubris and overconfidence.

Like you said, he had just slain Elendil and Gil-Galad, his head was swole and he wanted to revel in his victory. He wasn't thinking defensively in that moment, the thought that this puny man could in any way injure him didn't cross his mind. The same thing happened with Numenor, he was so caught up in his machinations that he didn't foresee they might lead to Eru falcon punching the island he was stuck on.

Same thing again with Frodo and the ring, the thought that someone could resist the power of his ring all the way to the interior of Mt Doom did not cross his mind, and he didn't defend for it.

Do I need to quote the definition of strawman next or are you going to shut your stupid face?

Logistically it may have been impossible for Elrond to stop Isuldur, but Elrond is consistently portrayed as having a personal chip on his shoulder about humans due to his father's decision to become one instead of staying immortal to raise him. Besides that, elves are passive, risk-averse, and generally don't believe in sacrifice because they treasure their long lives. Elrond was a bitch.

Oh you're a Sup Forumstard. Who doesn't understand how debates work or what logical fallacies are. Let me explain, lad. The first thing you learn, in debate groups, is that a logical fallacy is not a 'I win button'. As in, you don't play 'Spot the fallacy' so you can win the debate. If you had any actual understanding of debate or what you've learnt by rote from Sup Forums, you'd know there is over 300 (THREE HUNDRED) logical fallacies and EVERY argument has one. They do not defeat an argument, they just weaken it. Imagine an argument like a chainmail vest. Finding a logical fallacy or using one will weaken a single ring in the vest. That's it. The vest still holds, the vest still works. It just has a minor tiny weakness in it. Now, when you have dozens, scores or hundreds of fallacies in your argument, that's when it becomes a problem.

So shut the fuck up you anti-intellectual faggot.

Yep, carrying the burden of sin and faithfully working so that God may liberate us is indeed our condition.

The armies of Numenor. Hate to break it, but the elves were just there. It is human steel and human blood that won the war. Picking a fight with them would have been suicide.

I can see your point. I personally think if not the eerily similar failure of his former master then at least the Huan experience as well as the island experience would have cured that fatal hubris, but whatever.

Why didn't Frodo just turn into a black man then?
His cock would then be too big for the ring to fit on.

>Elendil and Isildur look larger than those around them in the film.
I just watched the scenes with them in FOTR and they are never really in a shot where you can compare them to others.

Two reasons:

1. As other anons have said, the armies of men were the main force there. Killing Isildur would have doomed Elrond and all the elves.

2. Isildur was a hero who had just saved everyone, Elrond was not about to murder him over the ring, he might have thought that he could convince Isildur or Isildur's heirs to destroy it later. After all, he is immortal. Waiting 5 minutes, waiting 50 years, it's all the same to him.

Aragorn is no joke. Being a man of strong Numenorean blood, 80 years of combat experience with a body in its physical prime, trained by masters to combat things specifically like ringwraiths.

Plus Witch King was never a frontline combat berserker, the war in Arnor was mostly a war of attrition, with the northern Gondorian empire crumbling in on itself while its enemies picked at the edges. It's basically a fictional version of the Roman Empire.

I see you're not familiar with the Fallacy fallacy. Google that as well so you don't have to type so much crap in the future. You could google why that doesn't apply to a strawman fallacy but feel free to keep embarrassing yourself.

It's mildly amusing.

Because killing a king, a chieftan and a hero of much bigger army of allies will lead to a war and extermination of a killer and killer's kind, you dumb shit

I'm pretty sure the witchking killed several elven lords in direct combat (I might be misremembering that) among others so my money is on the immortal sorcerer. We're not talking about a bunch of uruks here.

>blaming an entire group of people for what is perceived to be the fault of just one.
Could you be any more of an ignorant racist?

There Elves man there racist as fuck. Seemed like only Humans and Hobbits got along naturally and Hobbits still were segregated and lived only in Hobbigton so who's knows how great it really was.

Shame Gil-Galad wasn't shown for more than a second. The kinos lacked a flashy spearwielder.

You are stretching my knowledge, but I just did a quick refresher.

Couldn't find anything about Witch King fighting elf lords, except the fact he was shit scared of Glorfindel. Earnur vs Witch King was probably an even fight, but we don't know how the second fight panned out.

What I did read was that Witch King voluntarily withdrew from weathertop, believing that by stabbing Frodo his work was done, and the poison would seal the deal.

I know what a fallacy fallacy is. Nothing I stated mentioned that. You were the one who committed a fallacy fallacy by pointing out the 'strawman'.

Just stop. You got BTFO. I know your serve autism will compel you to reply to me now, but I'll be long gone since then.

Was it really divine intervention though? I like to think it was the insane lust for the ring beyond anything else, that paradoxically made it's destruction possible. it was because they both desired the ring so much that it was eventually, mistakenly thrown down into the fire and sauron vanquished.

god coming in an doing a gay little push bares the plot too much. everything else becomes questionable, besides it prevents the ring, as it's own character (because it's definitely a character/or has character-type presence), from fulfilling it's own story arc. Sauron, through his creation of the ring, is never punished by his own stupidity either. He only loses because god decides that it is enough. The god solution also requires additional knowledge of lore that would stilt the entire thing as a movie trilogy. i don't think you should have to speculate too much beyond what is shown to you for a movie to make sense.

Gods hairy creation solving itself in the end seems like much more rewarding to god itself, rather than him having to correct himself.

W H Y D I D N T T H E Y C A L L T H E E A G A L S

frok one of Tolkiens letters:
>Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far. The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself), 'that one ever-present Person who is never absent and never named' (as one critic has said).

The purer the bloodline, the more closely related to Numenor and the taller/more physically able you were. Naturally the blood of kings was very pure.

Just how you see black people kill each other in the ghetto and not intervene because you think you're too good for this shit, elves saw everything else as temporary and worth less than them.
I love JRR Tolkien but he truly was a son of his time.

>user thinks that it happened exactly as the movies show

Poor you.

This.
Elendil, who actually killed Sauron, was 7'11".

What's not great about having a community based on the needs of your people?

>wasted hitler dubs on a wrong post
Isildur would have absolutely pushed Elrond's shit in if he tried to do anything. It also would have been kindslaying.

>Elendil and Isildur look larger than those around them in the film.
So, what you mean is, the Numenorians are big guys.
Middle-Earth confirmed for being part of the Nolan Cinematic Universe?

In the books, the elven king and the human king kill Sauron in battle, but they also die.
Isildur cuts the ring from the dead body of Sauron.

I was just reading helm's deep, and not only was there no legolas surfing at all, apparently the fleeing orcs all got ripped apart and/or consumed by non-entish trees who had just recently appeared on the battlefield

I feel this was a missed opportunity

The forest bit is in the extended edition.

Because
A) kinslaying never works out well
B) the ring would not allow itself to be destroyed.

In the film, it would have made perfect sense for Elrond to walk up and kill Isildur. In the books, they never go on a hike to Mt. Doom together. The scene was just for cinematic fun.

This explanation makes the most sense

I look at the opening scene as a retelling of a "legend" that literally only two people left alive in the world knew anything about (Elrond and elf mommy), so of course it was embellished in some ways - like "why did Sauron move to kill Isildur so slowly", "Isildur shouldn't have had time to react to that, or Sauron should have seen it coming", blah blah. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, until the ring was actually found.

I could have sworn there were several high ranking dudes (including kings of the house of isildur) killed by him even before the battle of Fornost. As far as I remember his campaign there lasted like a thousand years or some such. If I am misremembering then I concede the point. Going to have to read it again, I guess.

The more important question here is why didn't Elrond have people tracking Isildur that entire time he had the ring? Waiting for an opportunity to take the ring back to an undefended wasteland? Why did he not bother looking for it in the thousand years since?

The purer your Numenorean blood, the more superhuman you were. Diluting it even a little had could have dire consequnces on their offspring, shortening their lifespan significantly. Long-term mixing of blood led to a degeneration of people as a whole, like the corsairs of Umbar who were mixed Gondorian and Haradrim blood.

As for Aragorn, he wasn't a giant like his ancestors but still pretty imposing.

Because he would have doomed himself. Taking the ring by force is literally the shortes way to be dominated by it.

By the time the witch king showed up there weren't many elf lords left. I think you're conflating the balrogs with the witch king since he was mostly a problem for the northern kingdom.

Eru

unlike saiyans

This never fails to make me laugh

WE

qt af

CAST HIM OUT OF THE PLANE

Seems like it. Thank you for the correction.Time to go look for it in the book shelves I guess.

What are you talking about, kinslaying works great. How else was Feanor gonna get those boats?

>The same thing happened with Numenor, he was so caught up in his machinations that he didn't foresee they might lead to Eru falcon punching the island he was stuck on

you fool. numenor getting smashed was his greatest victory EVER. he knew that Valar kept to themselves and will only react when Valinor is threatened. So what he does? he sends the greatest threat to his rule in middle-earth straight at Valinor, good guys versus good guys. no matter what happens he wins.

Yeah but he only assumed that the Valar would destroy the Numenorean navy, thereby removing the greatest military obstacle to his ultimate victory. He most likely planned to usurp power in Numenor and rule it himself, he had already corrupted most of its population after all. That Eru would flatten Numenor and destroy his body was not something he expected.

Isildur was bigger and stronger than Elrond, whose job during the siege was to hold up a flag.

Elendil did jack shit. Isildur was the nigger that put work in. I have no idea where you’re getting that he killed Sauron.

Why not use the ring to nuke Sauron's forces and then destroy the Dark Tower?

LOOKS LIKE FEET'S BACK ON THE MENU BOYS

>hungry skeleton

Because the fight didn't go down as it did in the films. Isildur wasn't the one who killed Sauron, Elendil and Gil-galad fought him 2v1 and died in doing so, but Sauron's physical body died as well. Then Isildur just sort of came along and cut the ring off his corpse.

So how high is Galadriel's powerlevel with respect to heroes of the 1st age like Feanor?

Saiyan halfbreeds are all fucking failures minus trunks. And that’s only because he was shaped by a death world.

They don’t want to train.

The numenoreans lifespans were diminishing even when their blood was pure on the island.
They lost their giftsfrom eru because they broke faith and were no longer worthy of it.

Faenor and Fingolfin and Noldor nobility in general cant be compared to anything in 3rd age. Faenor took on and slew multiple balrogs at once. Fingolfin emanated such magical power he was mistaken for a Valar. shits off the scale.

Powerlevel in the LotR universe is vague and a lot of it has to do with intangible shit like wisdom. Feanor is said to be the "greatest"/most powerful elf that ever lived but Fingolfin was a stronger warrior.

But didn't Galadriel see the Trees? I figured that meant that she was up there.

lots of elves saw the trees. the boat guy with a beard is old enough to not have parents. it doesnt mean he can take on maiar.

Because if he killed Isildur, the men would financially destroy the elves by raising their tariffs on tobacco.