I'm going to have to agree with Sup Forums about what modern cartoons have become.
Maybe out of influence from Anime, western cartoons are becoming all that shit you guys keep complaining about: "Muh deep lore, muh feelings". Many cartoons are just getting pushed into doing that, since their episodes get higher ratings from it. Steven Universe used to be about townies, daily problems that get solved by magic and about an innocent kid who saw good in everything and just wanted to be happy and make friends. But Season 3 and 4 have just become a complete lot of crying, Fusion, "muh feelings" and "muh lore". And tho the fanbase seems to like it, I sincerely think the quality has fallen.
Many cartoons have had the same problem, such as Gravity Falls and Adventure Time.
I recently watched "Wander over Yonder" and I must say, less than 20% of the show was about "muh plot" and the show was incredibly good, hilarious, well animated and just fun to watch overall. However, the show had to be cancelled because it wasn't being such a huge success.
Are western cartoons destined to become that or is there still salvation?
Also, is there any cartoon as good as Wander over Yonder, in the same style, that is still going on? I really liked it.
I'm going to have to agree with Sup Forums about what modern cartoons have become
Other urls found in this thread:
cbr.com
twitter.com
WOY becomes plot based half way through season 2. Craig McCracken himself stated that he wanted to follow AT and GF's lead and include plot and lore.
plot and lore > episodic shows
The show definetely had a plot going on, which isn't really bad, the thing is, while the plot was developing, the episodes still had the same kind of comedy and episodic-style that season 1 had. The plot was just there to make it more interesting, without the show turning into S.U.
The bigger problem is what happened to shows that became 80% lore based, and shows that got lower ratings when their episodes were not lore-based. I think Gravity Falls did what WOY did pretty well, until halfway through season 2, when if became full lore-based, While WOY was still "episodic" until the last 1 or 2 episodes. That's how I feel about the show, anyway.
This girl's pretty cute. Haven't ever watched SU.
Plan on it keeping it that way.
Honestly, I don't get why people Beach about show like SU and GF.
Episodic comedies outnumber plot and lore based cartoons by a large margin, so they're not in danger of being phased out by lore.
The fact you could only name three shows that suffer from that problem shows how minor it is. It's not exactly affecting all of western animation.
Craig wanted to make a plot focused show and was forced to minimize it.
He promised that his next show will be full on lore. He never shuts up about SU and GF too.
>This girl's pretty cute. Haven't ever watched SU.
>Plan on it keeping it that way.
Your not missing much.
>cartoons became moeshit
>WOY
>good
Fuck you nigger
read a book nog
>Honestly, I don't get why people Beach about show like SU and GF.
>Beach
Nice pun.
I figured as much
Not only do episodic comedies outnumber lore based dramas, but they also tend to get higher ratings, at least among the demographics advertisers actually care about.
Teen Titans Go is considered to be the current #1 highest rated cartoon on cable. It's a show that not only has no lore or drama, but prides itself on having no lore or drama. The characters often comment on how ironic it is that they never do anything important, despite ostensibly being superheroes.
This idea that the western animation industry is being taken over by anime-influenced melodrama seems like the exact opposite of what's actually happening.
its almost as if there's a reasonable balance of shows and the real problem is people shitting up the board with pointless threads cause they have nothing better to do than dream up stuff to panic about
I agree with you. Western cartoons should stick to just being or trying ot be funny. Only cartoon who has been able to pull the Serious vibe well has been Avatar. SU is the extreme
I just want thickness and weight gain.
I am horrified by that knowledge, that "Teen Titans Go" is so highly rated.
It's an abomination.
Sorry OP, but I take the exact opposite view.
Serialized episodes have worked like gangbusters in live action television, it makes no sense not to at least try in cartoons
muh lore and muh over arching plot and continuity can't survive on western shows.
there is a reason teen titans go is 90% of what CN airs, its one of their only shows replayability. steven universe and adventure time do horrible on reruns because the over arching plots means you have to watch the episodes in order to understand them.
the continuity was a nice phase in western animation but its dying now because its not suited for network television, its suited for binge watching online.
M O D S
O
D
S
cbr.com
>>I go online, and this is by far the most hated show of any series I’ve ever worked on. But it is also by far the most successful.
Plot-less shows are vapid and disposable. They have no real replay value, because there is nothing to miss on the first viewing.
"Teen Titans Go" is highly rated but culturally it won't have staying power.
A show about slacker heroes still could have had a plot. Even living the lazy life, you still have bills to pay.
Wasn't WOY cancelled not because of poor ratings but because of Disney thinking 80 episodes is enough?
I'll take lore and muh feelings over episodic comedy pretty much any day of the week.
Episodic comedies are good for watching with friends which was great when I was 20 and everyone had lots of free time. Not as great now that everyone is busy.
You can trace most of it back to the Big 3. Around 2002 western cartoons were still just status quo-ridden lighthearted inoffensive timewasters. Meanwhile some people began to look over at Naruto and there was a continuing serial with death, suspense, action, drama, creativity, like holy fuck. Why can't we have that?
This was before Bleach and Naruto showed the downside of what OP has mentioned, which is all too clear to us today. I do think shows like SU are still reaching for the One Piece, which itself was inspired by other mega-classics like Dragon Ball.
A combination of both.
But its impossible for cartoons with so much lore and feelings to stay fresh over the span of several seasons. Adventure Time went to shit because they started world building without any payoff or conclusion to the arcs. Korra went to shit because the writers didn't know how to build the lore of the Avatar World Post Fire Nation Imperialism.
My advice is, if you're going to build a lore-world, know exactly what you're doing several seasons in advance.
So? I'd rather take 2 good seasons and then stop watching than 8 mediocre ones. I'm a busy man.
homos
that show is the most boring shit
this
Writers nowadays don't know how to create a self-contained episode that has lore.
ah the disney 80, has the ever been an animated series back by disney that made it well passed that cursed number?
same. I keep hearing how good it is, but it's from the type of people that really get excited that something progressive is happening.
ME: "oh look, the guy gave that kid a dollar to buy that toy he was short on, how nice. Good to see random acts of kindness now and again"
Other guy: "mmm...okay"
ME: "how about that, this woman was dieing, and they saved her. She will be alive to see her grand daughter graduate college"
Other guy: "thats nice...."
ME: "Evere heard of that children's cartoon? They did a thing where a purple character is morally ambiguous and is also might be gay or something, Theres also-"
Other guy: "OH MY GOD YES! MY CARTOONS ARE ACTING ADULT! IM SO COOL FOR LIKING IT AND THIS IS WHAT CHILDREN NEED! IT SO PROGRESSIVE AND SMART! WATCH IT WATCH IT WATCH IT! ALL OTHER CARTOONS NEED THIS KIND OF MATERIAL! I CRY EVERY TIME!"
Sounds like
>I want my cartoons to be a soap opera
is winning over
>I want my cartoons to be like cartoons
which is sad. Also, a lot of these "over arching plot" cartoons are depressing. This is a thing i am noticing, kids love being depressed lately.
Everyone is becoming depressed. It's kind of a thing now
>not enjoying emotional catharsis
It feels good to feel sad about things that you're into. Real world sad stuff just soul damaging but with media it's sadness that feels good at the same time.
>Is there still salvation?
Yes if anyone is will to pay up.
No.
>Only cartoon who has been able to pull the Serious vibe well has been Avatar. SU is the extreme.
That was debunked.
It and Bojack make Tex Avery turn in his grave, we need construction back and put Voltron:LD to shame.
65.
This. REAL STORY TELLING that can provoke laughter and sadness is GOOD FOR YOU. Japan has plenty of light hearted comedies still and lighter shows. Those never go away.
>le gay meme
Funny.
Maybe stop hanging out with faggots.
SU was always setting up to be what it is now. The problem with "muh lore" and "muh plot" is it needs to be established early on. The shows that go to shit are the ones where it feels like an afterthought
You didn't crop it right dumbass
>Stars
>US
>aliens are the antagonist's
>The good aliens are the ones that fit in with the human's
>Single fathers raising their kids
Is... is Steven Universe conservative propaganda?
I dunno, still seems pretty lewd.
I feel like the "progressiveness" in steven universe is easy to overlook. Are there homosexual themes and undertones? Sure. But the thing is they don't try to shove them in your face. Its just in the background surrounding the characters that involve those themes.
Think about it this way. The proper way to write a character is to worry about them as a character first as a person now who they are who they love are easily secondary traits which in the flow of the show really never seem to bog it down in any kind of message. Its really just undertones at the end of the day really. Nothing more.
Hell SU plays it too safe in a lot of ways like what that Zuke person wrote on her blog recently. Then again you can only get away with so much or else you risk alienating a large part of your audience.
There's nothing wrong with continuity in cartoons. The problem happens when they try to shove it in a season later.
Except SU still does SOL and lighthearted fun, while also balancing it with plot. A good example of that is an episode like Joy Ride.
>Who they are
>Not what they are
Yup.
Good talk.
SOL is clearly not the focus in recent seasons the focus has clearly shifted but yes I agree they still take time for random non-sense episodes that still tend to have some heart like the one with peridot and steven catching the road runner corrupted gem.
But this thread is about complaining about cartoons turning into anime so what can you do really?
>single father lives in a van parked at a carwash
>letting 3 aliens raise kid for you
>cartoons becoming anime
you do know there are a good deal of (good and bad) simple one off "cartoon"-like anime out there, yeah guys? just as there is "anime"-like cartoons
it reflects what gets views from the culture/viewbase they're targeting, and shifts in said culture/base
>Father receives 10 million dollars.
>Hangs out with his son on a regular basis.
>Father eventually over the course of the series shows up in the house and reconciles with the one who had the biggest problem with him in the first place.
Yeah Greg sure is abused, neglicted and a dead beat dad. Right. Keep going. You are so informative.
>it takes 10 million dollars to find the time to make himself a part of his son's family
okay man
But thats missing the point. Anime is known for its Plot and character development.
The fact that it covers numerous genres and different styles, forms, and formats of animation is severely irrelevant to this thread.
It just can't be looked in the board sense even though it ought to.
>Maybe out of influence from Anime, western cartoons are becoming all that shit you guys keep complaining about: "Muh deep lore, muh feelings". Many cartoons are just getting pushed into doing that, since their episodes get higher ratings from it.
Too bad cartoons only rip off the bad parts of anime.
no
He gets the 10 million deep in the series. All the while from the second episode in which he is introduced and mind you in that episode he says why he's not welcome in the temple. He gets that he's not a crystal gem, but like I said in the post he is constantly shown hanging out with steven even prior to being with steven. The fact that he's rich goddamn I can't remember when it happens I want to say mid-season 2 or 3? Really just mean they do more things with the character like they rent a boat one episode or go to new york. You know creativity. 99% of the time his money has no impact on the story what so ever.
>It just can't be looked in the board sense even though it ought to.
then it's arguing and nit-picking just for the sake of it. i'm so out.
>prior to being with steven.
prior to being rich
Where do you think you are?
>as there is "anime"-like cartoons
Correction: were
Serialized action cartoons are a thing of the past now.
>talking to me like i haven't watched the entire goddamn series too
oh the woman who was crushing on my dead girlfriend fucking hates me, i guess i'll help pay for a nice little house for her and her friends to raise MY SON in
it took him that long to step into his life enough to step into his home which you've emphasized, that makes him not only a bad (or lazy) father, it makes him a coward
osomatsu-san was the most fun i've had with a Toon in years.
No. It makes their family dysfunctional sure but they are still a solid group at the end of the day.
I'm sorry you have such a narrow view of the world to not see that.
>the people who grew up watching anime use that as an influence in their work
>the same cycle that's ruining anime in Japan is now ruining cartoons in the west
the plot and lore still has to be done well.
coughAdventureTimesuckscough
>dysfunctional family
>"A family with multiple 'internal'–eg sibling rivalries, parent-child– conflicts, domestic violence, mental illness, single parenthood, or 'external'–eg alcohol or drug abuse, extramarital affairs, gambling, unemployment—influences that affect the basic needs of the family unit"
>McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine
i'll take "right from the horses's mouth" for 1000, alex
There are DOZENS of wacky, silly, goofy episodic cartoons now and they outnumber show's with a narrative focus (I can think of 3 that fit your description) by a huge number. Eat shit.
The first part of your post just described the appeal of anime to Westerners since the 80s. Anime back in the days when VHS piracy exchanges were becoming legit, it was advertised as being "animation made for adults". Then, in the 90s, DBZ and Sailor Moon caught kids with the idea of action cartoons that were more than Superman and Batman punching the same 6 bad guys that you know can't beat them. They could have running stories and even death with consequences. Then Naruto and Bleach did the same thing for the kids too little to have been caught up with DBZ.
It would only make sense that American cartoons would start to emulate anime, because the shitty ages of the late 90s to late 00s of American cartoons pushed more kids into watching anime. But they need to understand that not ever story driven action anime is 100% serious. sure, they can have serious moment, but even One Piece knows when to do a couple of fart jokes and titty puns to lighten the mood.
It's been confirmed Greg pays for all of Steven's shit (food, clothes, etc) by Sugar, as the gems don't produce any revenue. Greg LITERALLY lives in a van because he's supporting Steven's life in a place he isn't allowed to live.
Can we all agree that the One Piece manga is the best illustrated action-adventure serial of all time and western animation should take as much inspiration from it as possible?
>My brain is only capable of processing entertainment of the simplistic comedic kind
Are you american?
I don't understand how people think deep lore and emotional plot points are bad things. Maybe for children, but I'd assume adults who watch cartoons would like that stuff. The only problem is the shows in the West that are like this tend to promote sjw values, since the US is much more pozzed up than glorious Nippon.
Steven Universe was never about Magic.
The alien Aunties just told him that to avoid questions and existential concerns.
Gems are tech based, not magic, you clown.
A lot of what you said isn't valid, but some of it is.
Well, probably because, if every cartoon with deep lore and emotional plot was Bold Whiteman kills a foriegner and fucks a woman then slaps her in the mouth for speaking to him, it would be incredibly boring, even it that's what Sup Forums wants all media to be.
what the fuck are you talking about
Everyone knows how hard white-nationalist Sup Forums is. That's why they hate SU and AT; they think it's promoting SJW ideals and they hate that. They just want to go back to the days when Superman killed Gooks and Wops and Captain America kept those draft dodging liberals in line.
I just couldn't get into Steven Universe because it was boring from the beginning and the art style was shit
I don't understand all the circle jerking for it
In terms of a more modern cartoon I liked, I thought Gravity Falls was better, easy enough for kids to digest but still weird enough to keep older audiences interested and laughing at a few points and had a much better production quality.
Also all the "HURR MUH GAY SPACE ROCKS" pushing from SU fans makes me uncomfortable, I don't have a problem with that stuff but coming from those fans and the way they push it makes me extremely uncomfortable, not sure why
How about you stop watching cartoons for tweens then?
Are you spreading some of that alternative truth there son?
Do you know what board you're on, sir?
This board wants Marvel lynched for not listening to its white audience anymore.
It wants SU and all the other SJW cartoons off the air.
It wants female "artists" to shut their mouths and stay out of our fandom.
This board is 100% white nationalist.
Ask yourself why they want these things, try see things from another perspective without saying people are racist. If you throw around accusations with not consideration as to why they feel this way, of course they'll push back with greater intensity.
Instead open a dialogue, try to get them to also consider your perspective. If the majority disagree you're just going to have to live with that. Throwing a hissy fit and shouting sexist, racist, etc doesn't get you any where.
And of course if you can't tolerate the majority's view you can always step away from the computer. I'm sure you don't want to interact with sweaty basement dwelling sexist, racists now do you?
So, weekly episodes starting February 10th. The catch is it's on Friday night, and the 18-35 demographic makes up a sizable chunk of the tv viewership. So, while it's good for kids, I'm not so sure for adults/teenagers.
You're absolutely retarded if you think Sup Forums is WN. Also the board wants Marvel "lynched" for good reason, they shit up everything and shoved their propaganda in everyones face obtusely. However you don't see nearly as much outrage towards DC, even though they do the same thing. It's because DC more often than not maintains a sense of taste to their diversity, and it can be enjoyable. Marvel however shits on a lot of their books and lambastes their main demographic. Squirrel Girl is alright though, but not for its art.
Just saying you're mentally challenged. Carry on.
the Sup Forums is strong in this one.
If anything it's not anime influenced enough. Not every cartoon has to be the weekly* funnies or an adult comedy with overtly simple designs and lack of real substantial animation.
>Inb4 but all anime is moe
Yeah, a lot of anime is moe. That's because of the otaku market. Nonetheless a lot of moe anime still tries different things and different stories. At least moe girls have something resembling grounded anatomy whereas western cartoons are almost always bulbous heads on simple bodies. Steven Universe is one of the few modern cartoons to not fall into that completely.
>waaaaah cartoons aren't the say as they used to be waaaaaaah
Cry some more
Adventure time is the best cartoon of this decade. Not even memeing.
What are you talking about, anime is able to avoid SJW rhetoric without being some white power caricature, why can't the West do that?
>lives in a van because he's supporting Steven's life in a place he isn't allowed to live.
sounds more like a divorce.
ML-OH WAIT, fell into that trap years ago!
Harv-OH WAIT, booted to NickToons!
Spon-OH WAIT, been around since the 90s, so it isn't really modern!
The Lou-OH WAIT, destined to be the next SpongeBob!
Anything on Disney X-OH WAIT, bad ratings!
>He likes the fucking townie episodes
SU is better off without townies shit, but other shows can be episodic. they really need to just go full on plot instead of filler type stuff but the last bomb wasn't too bad about it besides annoying shit on the ruby ship
>Rebuilds giving that much influence
FUCK MY SHIT UP I COULD KILL EVERYBODY AND ABSORB THEIR SOULS JUST SO I CAN DIE AND LEAVE THE WORLD IN RUINS
It was.... until Season 5 happened, it started off decent, but around the halfway point, it became a trainwreck, and has barely recovered since.
But that's just my opinion.
Eh, I'll give you top five.
We can't forget it's what started this new wave; hell, some of us have been here since the pilot episode.
The Cal-Arts-Era?
Nice and neutral - clinical for the lovers and the haters.