So, this is going to be a thing

So, this is going to be a thing.

How does Sup Forums feel about it?

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:)

i thought all the watchmen died except the blue one who is in space somewhere

Actually, all of them survived except for Inkblot Man.

Why are they looking at the back of the button?

I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, this is basically a meta-story about how Watchmen ruined cape comics for decades, which is a very well deserved criticism.

On the other hand, every time DC does something like this, it gives Alan Moore another opportunity to rant about them using his old ideas because they don't have any of their own.

I'm not sure why they're involving Watchmen to begin with. If Dr. Manhattan is the villain, that would mean they're asking us to ignore his character arc in the original story.

Alan Moore?
Needing a reason to talk shit about the comics industry?

Who's Dr Oz though

it's probably gonna be dumb and stupid but i'm really enjoying both Batman and Flash books right now so...

Comedian died too

ozymandias?

>which is a very well deserved criticism.

I disagree. How was Moore and Gibbons supposed to know that it would influence people for the wrong reasons?

I will look down and whisper no

Ever since the Rebirth issue I've been in a very "wait and see" mood with the Manhattan plot. What it laid down was compelling enough for me to not immediately kneejerk and hate it like I would anything else continuing Watchmen not done by Moore and Gibbons. But I need to see how the story's handled, and I don't have too much hope in it being done very well.

Anyways, even if it's not good it's only two issues in each book, so easily ignored.

youtube.com/watch?v=qX-YfuVQmX8

Yeah, I never got why people think the source of the influence needs to be blamed for anything.

Anyone who reads comics is fine with it.

And no I don't mean casually. Anyone familiar with DC knows anything published under DC exist in the Bleed. The Watchmen Universe has always existed in the DC Universe. It is simply an elseworld.

The final nail in the coffin of the formerly greatest universe in comics.

>How was Doctor Frankenstein supposed to know his monster would go on a rampage and turn the village into an angry mob?

I don't really care whether it's fair to blame them or not. It happened. The story deserves to be called out for what it did. For what, in many ways, it is still doing.

Let him rant. He's pretty much irrelevant now anyway

Great, another interruption to King's Batman run which is already all over the place as it is.

Then who's king now?

>inb4 marlel

You cant blame the story or the guys making it for how people recieved and decided to take from it, the good thing about it is that it was great for its time and it still is now, if comic book publishers and fans are idiots and cannot understand that its not their fault.

Just read Detective Comics, it's way better

>Tynion's Detective
>better
This trigger me.

The only thing that could make it better would be involving Predators and Aliens too!

I feel like they waited too damn long after the movie to try cashing in on it.

Not that many care about Watchmen anymore.

Not everything done in comics is an attempt to cash in on movies

fuck off retard

I kind of want a plot that when Batman was sent back in time by Darkseid, it wasn't just in the timelinr we saw, but also in the real world continuity. And ever since, Batman has become darker, grittier, and more depressin, and because of his growing popularity, it has started to weigh heavy on the DC Universe. People have started to turn on Superman because he isn't as "cool" as Batman, and when Superman is changed to reflect that, he is rejected by everyone. Darkseid's plan is to kill hope, and he's succeeding. Wally West's and preNu52 Supermanms return is a wrench in that plan.

more relevant than the new comics

surreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I have faith in Johns and only hope that Morrison is consulting him, which I'm pretty sure he's doing. Like the idea forms in Johns' head and Morrison opens a portal from the 4th dimension and says with a smile "let's begin, shall we?"

Yea that must be why X-Men are second string, FF are cancelled, Iron Man is in every book, Inhumans are in front as the single most shilled name in the industry, Carol is everywhere, Cyborg is on the JLA, Zod looks an awful lot like Michael Shannon, while before he looked strangely like Terrance Stamp,

But yea no, comics totally aren't driven by movies....if you're retarded and never leave your house and have no idea what a movie is.

The ugliest of ugly cash grabs.

The story was finished, DC. It was complete. It was probably the most complete story I've ever read. Any addition to it could only damage its structural integrity, just as Before Watchmen inevitably did.

Just let it stand on its own, for god's sake.

>rock and roll made me go on a school shooting

this will require drooling autists to refuse to buy it on principle

>i thought all the watchmen died except the blue one who is in space somewhere
casual. they were minutemen, not watchmen.

fuck

Bruce/Barry? OTP

I hate Johns so much, pretending Barry is a good detective is bullshit. I really hate how mandated this crap sounds.


Also the idiots thinking this is meta are insane, Johns can't intodeeper meta than Superboy prime. He is pretty blatant when he tries to blame others for his own Fuck ups.

No one is stopping you from doing that autist. I've never read Before Watchmen and never will. If you don't like this don't read it. Ignore it and any other continuation of Watchmen that Moore does not approve.

It's pretty meta retard. The message isn't
>Watchmen is bad
It's
>Just writing grim dark bullshit because that's all you got out of Watchmen is bad

Manhattan isn't the villain he's the antagonist.

Johns and Morrison haven't been close to each other in over ten years, there's no bad blood between them but they are clearly rivals, Johns vision of dc backed by the suits became DC while Morrison multiverse tu backed by Didio became outside Canon that only his close collaborators care about. Do you think Morrison will be happy than a year after he introduced his version of the watchmen universe Johns puts Manhattan in a book?.

It's a DC property, given their history with stuff like Captain Marvel and the actual real Charlton Characters, how could anyone have viewed this as anything but inevitable?
I mean fucking, really?

It's bad meta when it comes from Johns, especially when dark stuff in comics isn't a bad thing, cheap shock is. Johns isn't that smart and new52 wasn't darker than the older universe

What did it do??

I would had liked a real watchmen sequel, by a top tier writer, but this isnt done by a good team, it's a cheap buck gimmick that started with the killing of a new God.

I'm a captain atom fan, one of the 5 in the entire board, and what pisses me the most is how this crap will most definitely be as bad as Darkseid war and captain will be put on the freezer for another decade after rise and fall

I think it's a fun and cool crossover that was bound to happen. Its not like it invalidates the OG Watchman.

It could be cool, but it won't be. If Dr. Manhattan was the only character from Watchmen to be in the story, and if he acted as an unseen force instead of a character for most of it, like Sauron in LOTR, then that could be pretty neat, but there's no way that's gonna happen.

Don't see Batman and Flash together enough.

You do realize this has been going on since the 40s? The reason Superman can fly is because of the Fleischer cartoons.

>how Watchmen ruined cape comics for decades

you misspelled "elevated"

I keep on expecting them to take a bite out of those smiley faces.

I'm pretty sure that was the user who was arguing that Sup Forums influences comics

Watchmen basically took simple heroes of the golden age and revitalised them by making them realistic, also known as edgier around here. And since then most comicbook authors of the big 2 want to leave their own mark on x character by making them grittier and more grounded. Only till now has this idea died down, but it was the bread and butter of the 90s to the new millennium.

Whether he wanted it or not, Moore created the trend.

We totally didn't had that in the 70s. Edgy crap wasn't product of Moore or watchmen, it was part of the radical and attitude times, extreme crap. Watchmen and mature comics always existed, even in Cape comics, watchmen gave us sandman and Morrison s animal man, it didn't gave us Superboy prime.

That's why the whole meta crap doesn't make sense. This is nothing more than a selling gimmick, any reference to the damage that Moore did is like marvel Comics aboutevil white males. It's superficial and bullshit

I thought everything Moore and Morrison wrote was fucking loved i the 80's for being """REAL""" because it had dirty unshaven heroes shoot the villains all the time and then be all brooding assholes about it. So then all comics had to follow that format.

Shit like Dark Knight Returns helped this a lot.

Kind of annoyed that the actual plot is moving ahead in Batman and The Flash instead of Titans.

I call bullshit

He is wrong , pic related

This.
Image comics started the edgy extreme trend.
Watchmen started the "comics are more than entertainment for kids" and "we could deconstruct these characters because they are cultural icons" trend. And most of the best capeshit stories have been created after Watchmen and influenced by it.

Watchmen is a good enough story that if you wanted to build off of it you should actually commit to something great instead of a hackneyed Geoff fucking Johns event.

Go the Sandman -> Lucifer route if you really want to build off of it. Don't just bastardize shit from it, fill in the cracks of the mythos and branch out.

Before Watchmen was them just throwing shit at a wall with every Watchmen character and, gasp, it was garbage. This is going to be more of the same.

>watchmen gave us sandman and Morrison s animal man, it didn't gave us Superboy prime.

Johns BTFO

Before Watchmen was mostly harmless cashgrab. This is harmful and idiotic cashgrab.

How did Watchmen give us Sandman?

They were more complex, but that's it. Take serious house for example, watchmen gained mass appeal and justified the hobby for adults, but it was something that was already there. But people like Johns, Lee, Scott, bendis, were not really influenced by it, Millar? Sure, but just read jla by Morrison or busiek avengers and you can clearly see that in the mid 90, watchmen was that big of an influence outside vertigo. Take a look at the x-men, and tell me, do you think Fucking Moore had anything to do with onslaught or the clone saga in Spiderman?

Lee and Todd had a bigger impact on the crap we got.

Harmless? it was utter dreck that spoiled every character it touched. You have to necessarily pretend it doesn't exist for it not to make Watchmen actively worse.

This is going to probably be less bad because it's going to happen after Watchmen and just be distilled garbage instead of an honest continuation of the universe.

Technically, the heroes of Watchmen were based on Silver Age heroes.
Moore did use Golden Age characters in Terra Obscura and Tom Strong.

They're showing us the button, dumbass.

What's funny is that Moore had to salvage some Image characters like Supreme.

Why are they showing me the button? I don't even exist in the same universe as them.

That's the kind of comics it influenced, not Flashpoint or cry for justice.

Edgy stuff did gave us some good stuff, like Bueno, Lobo, the Maxx or the original run of spawn, but it did hurt the industry in the long run. Watchmen was the result of Miller's daredevil, miracleman, the brits magazines, Heavy metal,swamp thing and even squadron supreme. It was the mainstream approval (and that means mainstream money) of adult comics, that gave us sandman, why? well it told DC and marvel that they could make real money with it, and sandman went to outsell SUPERMAN.


That's why the meta theory is either bullshit or johns intentionally ignoring/changing history to excuse his past mistakes

Johns didn't want New 52 and got rid of it when he could. The only two comics that were uninterrupted by New 52 was GL by Johns and Batman Inc. by Morrison.

Nowadays Morrison is doing creator owned stuff and self contained DC stories.

Almost all of that is Marvel, who are a fucking joke now. And Cyborg was in the JLA in comics for a few years before the movie appearance. I hate it, but that's how it's been since after Flashpoint.

It's not ranting at them, it's ranting at the industry's (specifically DC's) reaction to their success.

Seriously this. Fuck off with your fake outrage you stupid casuals. It's pathetic.

Yeah, and morrison worked on Spawn, The extreme trend died quickly outside marvel anbd had to be pushed by new talent like millar or big names like moore or morrison.

Cinematic comics replaced Extreme comics, civil war didnt drink from watchmen, but from the authority

Johns maybe didn't want the New 52 but it was still largely under his direction. The dude is part of the nebulous "editorial" that gets the blame for the decisions.

No one can hate on New 52. It gave us Lemire's Animal Man and it was god tier.

You never show stuff to people in other universes? Weirdo.

>johns didn't want new 52 and it crashes and burns after convergence and dcyou
>johns jumpstarts things with rebirth and everything is going great

Just as planned. Also, not to add to the meme but it seemed more like a Didio thing than Johns. There was that whole thing with Batwoman and her marriage getting called off.

Sure and the previous universe gave us 52 which was god tier. 4 or 5 good comics (Animal Man, Demon Knights, Dial H, Morrison's AC, and maybe Swamp Thing if you can wrap in Soule's better continuation into Snyder's) out of fucking 52 is not a good rate.

Did the Pre-New 52 universe have a better than 10% not garbage rate?

Wasn't half the reason that Animal Man was great was it didn't really suffer from the whole New 52 thing anyhow?

>Nowadays Morrison is doing creator owned stuff and self contained DC stories.

Sure, and Heavy Metal, but he was ready to leave DC years ago he only stay for DiDio, as for johns he was architect of new52, he didnt want it? Probably, but he was happy to be the hired work to do the job. He also got a promotion, he was part of new52 even if you want to deny it.

Johns has been doing the work of tyhe executives. Do you really believe The introduction of the watchmen characters is to make the story better? Or that pretty much every event he has done since sinestro corps includes ALTERNATIVE suits made thinking on DLC and toys?

I hate doing my job too and complain, but if i was against i could quit, he is a big name writer that wanted to make the suits happy. Stop pretending he has artistic integrity, he doesnt, and there's nothing wrong with that, by the time the DCUE is done he will be a millionare.

To put it is simple words: the CCO that got a movie for CYBORG isnt some simple writer, A guy that can hold hostage Captain Marvel from Waid and Morrison isnt a simple writer, he could had said fuck it, but no, he and lee created new52 and that part of history wont change. People do stuff they are not fans of in their jobs all the time.

It's not like any Rebirth comics are particularly great. I mean it's all pretty mediocre running right now. At least the New 52 had a few good experimental/niche comics at the outset. Sales are trending back down to normal rates.

I mean, what's the best Rebirth comic right now? Superdad? Which are fine, don't get me wrong, but I can't name a single great comic DC is publishing right now under the Rebirth tag (fuck their best comic is fucking Flinstones of all things, completely unrelated to Rebirth and could've been done at any point).

You just have terrible taste.

It's harmless in the fact you can completely ignore it. I've never read them - Watchmen is still the perfect graphic novel.

No, he doesnt, he wants more quality, he is asking for great comics and good comicsa, not DECENT and a few good ones, the one with shit taste are you.

It's not harmless, before watchmen was harmless, this isnt the same, this is Johns the consultant, president, CCO and main writer of DC using a great comic as a cheap gimmick, the event will be shit, Johns proved he can't handle the new gods or high concepts with Darkseid War, Moore wasnt against a Watchmen sequel or prequel (the prequel was mostly bad), but now the chances of a REAL sequel in the hands of a writer like ennis or morrison are gone. The chances of doing something interesting with Earth 4 are gone, Watchmen isnt a sacred cow, its premium steak, and Johns just took it out of the freeze, microwave it, put ketchup and mayo on it and shove it in your ass, then he said it was a burger and ask you for $3,99

DC has come a long way since an old drunk made edgy versions of Charleston characters to pay off his gambling debts. Who knows what adventures they'll have between not and the time the editors run out of ideas?

>fake outrage!

It's a DC property they can do what they want with it

And i wanted a good comic and a good writer, not johns moneygrab

See
You are either a DCshill or a Johnsfag

Why some of you still pretend that N52 was a big failure and a mistake? DC was really a mess before the reboot and N52 was needed and pretty much saved them.

If DC's so great, where are their critically acclaimed, billion-dollar-grossing movies?

No, that one doesn't count.
That other one doesn't count either.

Yup. Animal Man was going to be released anyway. It was a spin-off of Brightest Day.

Jeff Lemire had to change a few things once the reboot became known.

What?

Because Nu52 made the universe and its characters worse than what came before.

Here's another thing people ignore about the Nu52 success: it had a lot more to do with first day digital, jump in points and TV ads than the books quality.

>Because Nu52 made the universe and its characters worse than what came befor
Which characters they made worse? Because if anything, N52 actually saved some characters from being completely destroyed.

Name a single great Rebirth series. There isn't a stand out run amongst the whole lot.

Fine, sure, by that logic you can just not read any of this shit either.

How much money have you stupid faggots actually spent on Watchmen? This comic that you care so much about? Let me guess you have a torrented digital copy?

Cause I have a physical copy sitting on my shelf right now and it doesn't bother me one bit. Shut up you autistic fucks.