Can someone explain to me how exactly are The Saviors the bad guys? If anything...

Can someone explain to me how exactly are The Saviors the bad guys? If anything, they have been merciful to the other groups by not annihilating them. Also they are pretty much always attacked first and acting in self-defense. They are also the only unified and competent group, and their leader cares for the common good and is not a psychotic selfish megalomaniacal asshole like Rick is. Hell, he even stepped in and saved Rick when that handsome faggot (I forgot his name, the guy fucking Chloe Bennet irl) wanted to overthrow Rick

they are all white men. No diversity.

they arent everyone is just trying to survive normies just found someone to hate because they have existentional crisis

The idea is that they're not meant to be bad guys, they're just fucking with the group we like so they have to be taken out. The problem is that Negan's a sadistic lunatic who gets a boner from smashing in brains and taunting people about it so it doesn't really work. Also they just flat out bully people.

>The problem is that Negan's a sadistic lunatic who gets a boner from smashing in brains and taunting people about it so it doesn't really work
Except he is not. Literally everyone hes punished had it coming to them. If you follow the law and arent a cunt, negan wont be a cunt to you, on the contrary he has rewarded his mens loyalty and even let a bunch of transgressions slide in order to keep the peace, such as when karl pointed a fucking gun at him

>Also they just flat out bully people.
They have earned that by the divine right of conquest. It is the laws of nature, the weak should fear the strong.

The thing that kills me about this show is just how retarded everyone is. If 99% of earth's population dies you probably don't want to walk around killing the other 1%.

You need around 10,000 people for a breeding population to keep humanity from getting terminally inbred.

>if you follow the law
Negan's law, you mean. He takes half (all) of your stuff and you have to constantly provide for him in exchange for not getting murdered. He literally provides nothing except your ongoing "survival" as his slave.

It's a feudal system. This is how humanity lived during the middle ages.

Excuse me are we talking about TWD or the government?

>implying that's a good thing

Main problem is that he is extorting resources. Everyone should just live with Negan, but different areas provide different things and people need to be stationed there. It gets too big and Negan can't control all of his men from being assholes, but that is expected. He can't trust that new communities will listen to him because they could very easily turn on his community so he conquers them and takes their weapons. He separated the new communities instead of unifying them all. Those who proved loyal get treated as one of them and those who don't get punished until they do.
I would say he should have killed off Rick's groups the 3rd time they tried to kill him because at that point they are a loss cause of trying to recruit.

He is the most powerful leader in the most powerful group, why wouldnt he make the laws?

By all rights, all of Ricks crew shouldve been LUCILLED after all their sneak attacks and constant breaking of the truce terms, but he only killed a couple of them. His punishments have been light compared to Rick's massacres. We are supposed to sympathize with the characters who the show is from their own pov? Within the Saviors, it is shown his leadership is fair, he is not mad with power like Rick is

Well, technically the government provides services like police, fire, roads, schools, protection in exchange for taxes.

You pay Negan's tax and you have to give him everything for the rest of your life. You get nothing in return. Negan is just a thug.

>Negan
>Not mad with power

Pick one.

Just because I dislike Negan doesn't also mean I don't dislike Rick.

>the government provides services like police, fire, roads, schools, protection in exchange for taxes.
That doesn't make my point any less true.

>Not mad with power

Name ONE time he did anything for a selfish reason and not to uphold the law. name ONE time he punished someone for no legitimate reason, just for the sake of punishing them

So you'd rather live as a worker slave tending the fences for Negan than in a 1st world republic with actual rights?

Sure.

>Negan creates "laws" that favor him and him alone
>Someone rejects his rule
>He bashes their brains in
>It's the law, guys!

For everyone moralizing Negan you're completely missing the point. Morality and justice doesn't matter in the slightest in a savage world. There is only weak and strong.

Crying "no fair" and doing vagina hat marches only really can be done in a society that has a stable military and police force keeping the tyrants of the world outside of your borders. Most of you posting are much too coddled to comprehend how things really work outside of a first world country.

If you cry about how unfair it is when someone bashes in your skull you're still dead whether it is fair or not. With a tyrant like Negan you can either submit to him, exist outside his sphere, or be stronger than him.

For almost all of human history this is how things have been done. You can only complain about "justice" because white men have built societies for you.

Yes it does, because ancaps are fucking retarded and not worth debating since you're edgy teenagers that think you don't owe society literally anything. Fuck off

I understand all that. What bothers me is that pro-Negan defenders refuse to acknowledge that he is a psychotic tyrant.

Things Negan did completely wrong

>giving the communities full autonomy and just collecting tributes
>not installing one of his lieutenants as community leaders and keeping a praetorian guard stationed with them
>not killing the leaders of conquered settlements
>not unifying the settlements and rolling out his credit system across the board
>completely fucking people over (banging their wives) and keeping them in positions of power/responsibility

Under Negan the saviours were bound to fail

>Crying "no fair" and doing vagina hat marches only really can be done in a society that has a stable military and police force keeping the tyrants of the world outside of your borders

Oh the sweet fucking irony, this is either a masterful troll or youre a blind american who actually believes the military and police exist to protect people like you from tyrants

such sweet fucking irony that I cant tell if youre baiting or not

Oh he's absolutely a tyrant. But what you're seeing is people who either imagine themselves as being a tyrant or people who are submissive and want to please a tyrant. They're imagining themselves as part of team Negan and rationalizing the evil. Certain personalities flock to emotionally manipulative psychos. Just look at the Manson family.

you dont know what a tyrant is. A tyrant wouldve slaughtered the men and taken the women as sex slaves and burned his enemies communities to the ground. Negan is literally not a tyrant

While his goals are arguably noble, at the very least good, he does it in such as way as to only build resentment in a majority of his population. The only way to keep that resentment in check is be even more brutal, which has diminishing returns re: compliance but will have exponential returns in resentment and hatred. He could have instituted some type of favorable tax policy based on ability to produce, but in turn he would have to actually provide something in return. He also neglected to move towards stability in other ways. You know how initially he had 1 doctor at his place? That dude should have been splitting his time being a doctor and making new doctors.

So you'd rather live under Juchi, Soviet communism, or Islamofascism? Try doing a pussy hat march in those places.

ty·rant
ˈtīrənt/Submit
noun
1.
a cruel and oppressive ruler.
"the tyrant was deposed by popular demonstrations"
synonyms: dictator, despot, autocrat, authoritarian, oppressor

Also, all of this. Look at Genghis Khan and mirror that, if you're trying to establish some sort of post-apocalypse society based largely on having a bigger collection of badasses.

That's exactly what he does, though, if you question him in any way or don't make his extortion payments.

ty·rant
ˈtīrənt/
noun
noun: tyrant; plural noun: tyrants

1.a cruel and oppressive ruler.

He beats people to death with baseball bats which is cruel. He extorts people for goods which is oppressive. Looks like you might want to read before speaking next time.

The Mongol Empire collapses after approximately 150 years. Kublai Khan was the last great ruler and Gengis Khan was the only other great ruler.

>reading ((dictionaries))

no thanks, I'll reach my own conclusions on what constitutes a tyrant. In a few years "rape" will be "to make eye contact with a female who is not attracted to you" i dont dictionaries to explain what words or phrases mean, i can reach my own conclusions

Fuck off

>The Mongol Empire collapses after approximately 150 years.
Which would be 148 years or so longer than Negan's system. I'm not saying you STAY at that level for any longer than necessary, but if you're going to go that route look to history and adopt what works. Negan's taking of Eugene was a good move though.

Imagine being this ideologically brainwashed where you think you can just choose the meaning of words

>being this retarded

>implying hes wrong

...

He very much is though.

>((he))

You can't change the meaning of words when you lose an argument. That's some post-modernist twaddle.

Nega's "law" is not working because there is no pretense to fairness.

Even a dog will stop cooperating if you never reward it.

Negan taking your supplies is fine... but only if he is compensating you in some meaningful way. Simply not killing you is not compensation. He ought to be providing protecting or acting as the trade-hub between his various vassals. They can trade with each-other, say, but only through Negan and Negan takes a cut. He keeps them all organized by being that central hub and keeps the land safe, probably taking people from all groups into his army to keep the area free of rival groups and walkers.

That's what he should have done.

>what a morally complex and controversial word means is defined by merril-webster

Ok, explain how he is not a tyrant.

>believe widely accepted English language dictionary
>believe some retard shitposter who is butthurt that he's been called out for being retarded

He's not a tyrant because he could be a worse tyrant, duh.

>There should be a new, stronger word for tyrant like executroyer or destrutioner. Yes, Negan is a destrutioner. From this moment, I will stand for the opposite of a destrutioner, renoiturtsed

>concepts like tyranny and justice and good and evil are merely words to be defined in dictionaries

>He's not a tyrant because he could be a worse tyrant
>he could be a worse tyrant
So you admit he is a tyrant, but he could be more tyrannical?

I think you got lost friend, I was agreeing with you and obviously not that guy.

Rolling up on someone and taking their shit through the threat and/or application of force and creating a whole system in which everyone you encounter must abide by that is tyranny by any definition you fucking retard.

He seems that retarded that Poe's Law is in full effect.

>natural selection is tyranny

christcuckery is literal cancer. I wish the Romans had killed that kike faggot before he spewed his nonsense

I unironically agree with OP. They have a system that work. Neegan has his flaws but look what he's been able to create. The rest of the world lives in garbage heaps or are cannibals or are terrifically dysfunctional.

So your argument is that you are so intelligent that you are above dictionaries. Can you provide evidence that you are a greater authority on the English language than Merriam-Webster?

Yeah I really hated when Christ came down from heaven and said "btw there's this new word called Tyranny I just made up, start using it"

This they changed the meaning of fascist in dictionary it meant before certain type of government now it means that every right wing party or supporters are fascist look it up on google

In the comics it's very clear that Negan is really probably better in general than Rick but Rick's on a rampage because muh Glenn.

The show has Negan more sadistic, like killing the innocent doctor because the wives said they cheated with him, or Negan lining up and killing all the men, children and all, at the seaside colony. In the comics the worst thing he did was smash Glenn's head for revenge.

>>natural selection is tyranny
Instituting that as a government is, yes.

>>The rest of the world lives in garbage heaps or are cannibals or are terrifically dysfunctional.
>except for Alexandria
>and the Kingdom
>and the Hilltop
>and Woodbury before they started a fucking fight

because rick is the supposed to be the good guy even though he is utterly incompetent and has enough plot armor to make woody woodpecker, bugs bunny, stargate SG1, every shonen manga and anime protaganist, amazon self published, western comicbook hero, and doomguy to shit themselves in utter terror at the thought of facing him.

>a cruel and oppressive ruler
thats what my argument is against you dumb idiot cocksuckers. What a cruel and opressive ruler is is different to different people and in different situations.

hes the original moralfag, he was literally the neckbeard kissless virgin to start neckbeard kisless virgins

>hes the original moralfag

yea bro, he totally came up with all those concepts

>What a cruel and opressive ruler is is different to different people and in different situations.
And in some situations things are kind of viewed universally as cruel and oppresive. Such as bashing in someone's skull for someone else taking a swing or forcing another community to give over half their shit, burn their mattresses, and basically just take whatever you want.

So you cannot provide evidence. I'm glad we have settled that Negan is a tyrant.

Protip: When you make a claim you need to back it up. Otherwise it gets disregarded.

>Rick
>kills entire outpost of people in their sleep, essentially slaughtering them in the same way Glenn and Abraham were slaughtered but in greater numbers
>Negan kills two people in response

>Carl comes and kills more of Negan's citizens
>Negan feeds Carl spaghetti and saves Rick from the mutineer in retalation

You can argue those actions are justified, but you can't actually argue against their cruelty or oppressiveness.

doesnt they offer protection?

this

Negan is god

Rick is hitler

>takes half of everything you have just because
>including women
>offers “security” in exchange when you don’t really need it
>takes all the weapons so you’ll end up needing their protection and won’t have a chance to defend your people when they decide to come in and bully your men to death
yeah, Negan is just like good, old ‘murica

>doesnt they offer protection?
In the same way that those not really polite Italian fellows offer protection to your store so it doesn't get robbed or burnt down every week.

But the mafffia co-exists with the government. In the world of TWD there is no alternative, so Negan is the logical way to go untill there is a better alternative

>so Negan is the logical way to go untill there is a better alternative
Except for those groups doing just fine before him...

>so Negan is the logical way to go untill there is a better alternative
But he doesn't actually protect them, just like mafiosos don't actually protect anyone. You don't pay them to actually protect you, you pay them to not attack you. Your retarded ass can't tell the difference I suppose.

And how long would they be doing fine once a group gets word of a group doing fine there?

There should be some sort of government, a power that enforces certain rules.

I admit the tax (50% of everything) is a bit high and they are fucking bullies which happens if you let rednecks in charge of protection, but the concept is reasonable.

>that time Rosita tried to shoot him.
>let's her and Eugene live

>The second time when Rosita and Sasha tried to assassinate him.
>Tries to recruit Sasha

He's too lenient for his own good.

>but the concept is reasonable.
Again, I've already stated the concept is, but his methods of going about it isn't. He's also still a tyrant.

>a power that enforces certain rules.
Arbitrarily and at one person's discretion?

>When you make a claim you need to back it up. Otherwise it gets disregarded

see the onus is on you to prove hes a tyrant I asked in the beginning of the thread and u still havent formed a coherent thought since then that goes beyond "muh dictionary"

>Name ONE time he did anything for a selfish reason and not to uphold the law.
His making a rule that he can have as many wives as he'd like, to make a system that results in a serf class.

>to prove hes a tyrant
He arbitrarily imposes his will on others.

>So you'd rather live under Juchi, Soviet communism, or Islamofascism? Try doing a pussy hat march in those places.

The fact that you actually believe any of them are a bigger threat to you than tyrants at home is laughable (muh armed forces protect me) those armed forces would rape your mother and disembowel you with one word from their bosses

>>those armed forces would rape your mother and disembowel you with one word from their bosses
>t. edgelord who got rejected from meps for being fat

>He arbitrarily imposes his will on others.
Ive already argued against this, stop recycling the same tired points ive already refuted. They are, in fact not arbitrary at all and are quite rational within the context they are happening. hes more of a rational actor than rick is

>His making a rule that he can have as many wives as he'd like, to make a system that results in a serf class.
what a ridiculous stretch of logic, all the women are with him of their own free will

How exactly does him having a harem lead to a "serf class: Are the other Saviors not allowed to have girlfriends or wives?

>he unironically actually believes the enforcers of his ZOG overlords are here to protect him from his ZOG overlords

>what is every army in history

>hes more of a rational actor than rick is
Yeah, Rick is an idiot. Negan is still a tyrant though.
>They are, in fact not arbitrary at all
>randomly picks people to kill
>creates a point system that is awarded based on how much a particular Savior feels like paying

>all the women are with him of their own free will
>hey I created a system that makes you a fucking slave, but would you like to have literally everything you want and all you have to do is take a turn getting dicked?

>How exactly does him having a harem lead to a serf class
>what are all those people who work for points?

>t. very butthurt

>muh Based Marines please fuck my sister and mother

...

i agree with OP 100%

Well memed, my anarchist friend

>doesn't have an argument
>Ha your so butthurt XD
Fucking retard

Nowhere in the constitution does it say the government can tax your income

>(((Websters)))
c. 1300, "absolute ruler," especially one without legal right; "cruel, oppressive ruler," from Old French tiran, tyrant (12c.), from Latin tyrannus "lord, master, monarch, despot," especially "arbitrary ruler, cruel governor, autocrat" (source also of Spanish tirano, Italian tiranno), from Greek tyrannos "lord, master, sovereign, absolute ruler unlimited by law or constitution," a loan-word from a language of Asia Minor (probably Lydian); Klein compares Etruscan Turan "mistress, lady" (surname of Venus).
>In the exact sense, a tyrant is an individual who arrogates to himself the royal authority without having a right to it. This is how the Greeks understood the word 'tyrant': they applied it indifferently to good and bad princes whose authority was not legitimate. [Rousseau, "The Social Contract"]
Originally in Greek the word was not applied to old hereditary sovereignties (basileiai) and despotic kings, but it was used of usurpers, even when popular, moderate, and just (such as Cypselus of Corinth), however it soon became a word of reproach in the usual modern sense. The spelling with -t arose in Old French by analogy with present participle endings in -ant. Fem. form tyranness is recorded from 1590 (Spenser); Medieval Latin had tyrannissa (late 14c.).

Constitution doesn't say a lot of things

If you pay italians and come some irish to ask you to pay them too for protection the same you go tell to the Padrino and be sure one of the 2 group will kill the other. With Negan it's the same: who tells you that there isn't another group like the saviors that do the same? Maybe the protection the saviors provide is from these other groups

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