Isn't this basically the Spider-Man formula?

Get your signature weapon/power. Old mentor/father figure dies. Etc. Along with the constant jokes/quips. I mean, even Black Panther has the same progression with his father dying, etc. It's like every MCU hero is basically following the Spider-Man story and adding in the trademark Spidey quips/jokes along the way.

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Correct.

This leaves out other part of the Marvel™ formula.

>Enemy is coveting over (thing) [Be it the cosmic cube, pym particles, the suit TONY BUILT IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS! ect. ect.]

>Big fight scene, where the hero wins and captures/kills enemy

>OH NO! It was a lie, this was part of the plan.

>They have access to (thing) now.

>Main hero fights against enemy, but loses

>Side character says "hey, you should try again and shit because I believe in you"

>Hero tries again and wins, and retrieves the (thing)

I mean, Spider-Man is their most popular character, therefore, to make their other characters popular, they must become Spider-Man
That's how Bendis writes

>marvel formula
check and mate

Those still fall into this:

It's basically every hero story ever. Well, they don't all begin that way, but neither do all the Marvel flicks.

What about Guardians?

It's still the same for both of them really, just with some aspects shuffled around. Strange and unfamiliar territory, starts off naive and gets a signature weapon/power, old mentor/father figure, enemy with similar powers, etc.

Power gem (it was power, right?)

fine

>it's the same except it's different

no shit

I'm curious as to what you guys think these movies should do to break from this apparent formula (which no one can agree on the specifics of except that the hero faces inner and outer conflict)

Ronan took it from them by force. They didn't beat him.

>which no one can agree on the specifics
The but the specifics are right there. Sure, you can move the bulletpoints up and down a position here and there to change the order, but they're still the same bulletpoints.

>posts the most formulaic paint by numbers movies not only in the MCU but probably ever

laughing my ass off to be honest

Power gem.

Only a slight alteration to the formula, and its the only one that has a slight alteration, mind you. Other than that, Guardians follows it to a T.

they're extremely generic bullet points

regardless, how ought they differ?

white haired bearded mentor/father figure doesn't die or seemingly die in Ant-Man and doesn't exist in Doctor Strange

formula busted

there are lots and lots and lots of movies that dont follow said bullet points. Just off the top of my head Transformers, Chinatown, any Stars Wars movie that isnt a New Hope or The Force Awakens, any Mad Max movie, the original Daredevil movie, Akira, I could go on.

Doesn't die, but still present in the former and is a white woman in the latter.

>doesnt exist in Doctor Strange


the Ancient One you fucking idiot. And Pym is still in Ant-Man, so really you just got one thing slightly different. Hope you are proud of yourself, you found one slight variation to the genericness.

>It's basically every hero story ever

No its not, see
Also Nolan's Bat movies managed to never adhere to this formula. Neither do MoS, BvS, or SS. Neither does fucking Raimi's Spider-Man movies.

who isn't bearded or white-haired

>The old mentor figure aspect isn't the important part.
>The white hair and beard is the important part.

>there are lots and lots and lots of movies that dont follow said bullet points

I never said otherwise

now answer my question: how ought these movies in particular differ while still being self-contained? provide just one example

>Also Nolan's Bat movies managed to never adhere to this formula

nolanbats and star wars are long-form storytelling, marvel movies are episodic

>Neither do MoS, BvS, or SS. Neither does fucking Raimi's Spider-Man movies

MoS certainly does clark even gets two dead father figures

Spider-Man does as well and the sequels rehash it even further while shifting some of the bullet points around as you say

>being this pedantic

neck yourself

Not that it matters much, but he's not the one who said shifting around the bullet points. I did. You're speaking to multiple people, man.

>Pym doesn't die even though the rest of formula applies, haha!
>the Ancient One doesn't count for some reason haha!

Busted af, sure

>how ought these movies in particular differ while still being self-contained?

Literally any way they want. Are you telling me that every single Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America story of the past 50 years follows this formula? There are literally tons and tons and tons of comics to pick from. They could have done Saving Private Bucky starring Captain America, where he has to go deep behind enemy lines to save Bucky and at the end has to choose between saving his partner or attacking Red Skull. They could have had Iron Man be a controversial public figure due to his arms dealing past and then Russia makes their own Iron Man to compete with America and Tony accidentally creates and international incident. They could have had Thor have to save a human from He'l or any of the other millions of stories. Use your imagination you casual.

>for some reason
for this reason

>Oh no, action movies have similar formula.

You know you cna basically apply that chart to a good chunk of Action movies, not just MArvel.

You trim down to the minimal and you get the same things.

No original idea since antiquity, no need to consider the MCU is a special case.

Exactly. This comic is describing the most basic universal story structure. It's like complaining that Marvel movies feature conflict and resolution.

Hey, why was the post with the hero Journey deleted?

Are you mentally challenged?

When casual moviegoers start to notice a pattern and formula in your movies, you're doing something wrong.

>implying you couldn't still find a way to distill all of them down to the same "formula"

half of the "formula" only applies to origin movies anyway which are typically more based on the comics than the sequels

you casual

>nolanbats and star wars are long-form storytelling, marvel movies are episodic

Star Wars literally has "episode" in its titles you fucking idiot. And no, Nolanbats was not planned as trilogy. They are episodic too. Marvel movies are explicitly long form storytelling because they intentionally have after the credit scenes to lead into the next movie and scenes within the movies (like Ant-Man fighting Falcon) that make no sense without what has come before.
>MoS certainly does clark even gets two dead father figures
What about the rest of the chart? Also Jor-El never dies for Clark, he is a ghost the whole time. And Superman's romance never fails due to the plot (a major point of the chart) and the second villain is in no way someone from Clark's past. Good try though.


>Spider-Man does as well and the sequels rehash it even further while shifting some of the bullet points around as you say

No it doesnt, there is no losing of a father figure in SM2 or 3, and the villain does not have a similar powerset, and Peter gets the girl in the end. Also Peter has his dad die before he learns what it means to be truly heroic.
God you are really grasping for straws.

It's not casuals, it's professional nitpickers.

what the fuck are you talking about? Literally nothing I said adheres to that formula, sure they COULD, but it would be bad. Saying they could in no way negates what I am saying. And none of the origins are based on the comics you stupid stupid casual. Tony has no mentor figure in the comics that dies and Iron Mongerer is completely different. Also he is way way more of an asshole and pepper pots didnt even exist as a love interest. Thor's origin is NOTHING like the movie at all you stupid stupid pleb, and Cap didn't have a mentor figure in his origin either and he sure as hell didnt accidentally defeat Red Skull by giving him a cosmic cube.
Goddamn this is pathetic, the most pathetic case of a casual trying to seem like they know what they are talking about.

you are so fucking stupid m8

>>implying you couldn't still find a way to distill all of them down to the same "formula"

Not really, no. I mean you can try but I think you'll make a fool of yourself

not even Trasnformers adheres to this, stop making excuses. And there are ways to do the heroes journey without doing it in such a generic marvel way. MoS follows the hero's journey to a T without doing the same things that the Marvel movies do.

this isnt the fucking hero's journey, where is the transformation? it seems to happen way before the mentor figure shows up, where is the gift of the goddess, where is the atonement? Where is the death and rebirth?

see

and it's shit

>Tony has no mentor figure in the comics that dies

lol stopped reading right there you're half right though seeing as yinsen is hardly a mentor in the comics or the movie

So is the MCU, what's your point

>you are right but I stopped reading

kys

moving the goalposts aside. guardians was more of a star wars movie than a marvel movie

he is a lot more of a mentor in the fucking movie than the comics. There have been plenty of re-tellings of his origins in the comics that havent included him. Point is that that movie over used him so they could have that unearned emotional moment.

fuck you no it wasnt, thats the stupidest thing ive ever read, there are no fucking dance offs in Star Wars.

>not even Trasnformers adheres to this, stop making excuses
Sam Witwicky does
> And there are ways to do the heroes journey without doing it in such a generic marvel way
Marvel isn''t generic.
>MoS follows the hero's journey to a T without doing the same things that the Marvel movies do.
Of, course, all MCU movies are different, therefore, it's normal MoS is also different.

You are the one moving the goal post.
Guardian is MCU.

...

1. this is a very stripped down frame work you lay out there you will find in Much much more movie than just MArvel. Congratulation, you have achived force year of movie school.

2. People tend to forget there is an over-arching plot going with the infinity stones. There is a thematic to be found with the localisation and effect of each of them.

>ignoring uncle ben
>ignoring pa kent
>ignoring the codex
>God you are really grasping for straws

about as much as you are when you say "oh the formula really does apply to all of these even though you have to alter it every time"

>tony stark never had a mentor figure that dies
>oh I guess he does but it doesn't count!

yinsen played the same role in the movie as he always has

No, you're wrong I can think of tons of action movies that don't follow this formula. All the 007 movies (minus Goldeneye), the Raimi Spider-Man movies, X-Men, TDK, Mission Impossible, ect. ect. ect.

But there was no dance-off in GOTG.

>No, you're wrong I can think of tons of action movies that don't follow this formula.
An I can think of much more who does.

and no, I am not wrong, the over-arching plot of the infinity gem does reign in. Once you start to consider all of those movies are part of one Saga, thematic reoccurence is not only understandable, but even to be expected.

show me where in the comics there is a big emotional scene of tony crying over Yinsen, and even then the rest of the origin and character of Tony are wildly different from the movie you pedantic shit.

I didn't ignore anyone, but you are just focusing on ONE single aspect of the chart, and I am showing you how those movies go against all the other aspects you stupid grasping for straws shit head.

Name them, because the only ones coming to mind are Indiana Jones.

>and no, I am not wrong, the over-arching plot of the infinity gem does reign in.

Has nothing to do with them following a formula, if anything that makes it worse since this is suppose to be an overarching story.

>An I can think of much more who does.
Name them.

>Sam Witwicky does
what mentor does he lose? how is his romance fucked up by the story?


>Marvel isn''t generic.
They are super generic.

>Of, course, all MCU movies are different, therefore, it's normal MoS is also different.
We are in a thread showing specifically how they arent.

>thematic reoccurence = same plot structure in 9 different movies

wew lad

youtube.com/watch?v=jaaJyAjvajo

>people think pointing out the hero's journey is clever now

>show me where in the comics there is a big emotional scene of tony crying over Yinsen

I must have missed that part in the movie

> and even then the rest of the origin and character of Tony are wildly different from the movie you pedantic shit

literally every superhero movie differs from the comics you pedantic shit, I'm only saying that the origin movies (which this chart is about) typically skew closer to the origin comics (at least in the first half hour) than the following movies

you are the one focusing on one aspect of the chart

MoS follows it almost to a tee (give or take a few bullet points of course) but instead you choose to nitpick over the Jor-El hologram

holy shit you idiot its not the hero's journey

And even if it was, there are much better ways to do it.

That wasn't a dance-off. That was a distraction. It says so right in the video you posted.

>people not knowing what the hero's journey is

It's on wikipedia ffs

>I must have missed that part in the movie
Wow, now you have to misremember your own movies to make them good?

youtube.com/watch?v=F0VM1lIMMtY


>literally every superhero movie differs from the comics
>I'm only saying that the origin movies typically skew closer to the origin comics


make up your mind, and no they dont. They take the most barebones parts of them and twist them to make theme as generic as possible. Show me the Thor origin comic that had him fighting a giant robot in a small american town with his two quippy human girls.

wow so literally the hero's journey, amazing

>MoS follows it almost to a tee

I literally just explained how it doesnt. He has two father figures, one that never leaves him, his father figure dies before he fully gets his powers, and his love interest is not fucked up by the plot. That is three differences from the chart you moron.

>its not a dance off because something comes after it, even though he says he is going to dance and starts dancing

it doesnt matter if its for a distraction, I can fire a gun as a distraction but I still fired a gun. Goddamn you are pedantic.

Not same plot srutcutre. Basic frame work you can find in most action movie if you deconstruct them enough.

>14 posters
>most of them believe it's the Hero's Journey
>the only people contesting is some butthurt DCfag
this will always make me laugh

see
Also you can stop same posting now.

>It's a Sup Forums learns about the Hero's Journey episode

Not Transformers, not Lethal Weapon, not Die Hard. Not Raimi Spider-Man, not the universal Hulk movie. Cry harder.

>We are in a thread showing specifically how they arent.
No, we are in a thread wh o strip down MCU movie to such a low level we can pretend they are all the same.

see
also you can stop sameposting, the ip count isnt going higher.

Add the OP to this. Doesn't matter though, because that's not even the hero's journey.

>major plot points and character motivations are low level now

wew

>Wow, now you have to misremember your own movies to make them good?
that's probably not what happened

it's just that the MCU movies are incredibly forgettable

>i-its just o-one DCfagg! I s-swear guys!

It's literally only one guy saying it's the Hero's Journey (you I assume) and he's wrong in every samefag

not going to dredge up iron man scans to play your little game, point is yinsen served the same purpose he always has: he is part of the experience that spurs Tony to give up his warmongering

>make up your mind, and no they dont

why do you think it's a binary system of "exactly like the comics" or "nothing like a comics"

>Show me the Thor origin comic that had him fighting a giant robot in a small american town with his two quippy human girls

oh are we pretending the magical destroyer armor was just made up for the movies now

Somhow you seem to confuss "many movies" with "all movie".

Also, stop mentionning Transformers, you are not helping your case.

>It's a "Sup Forums doesnt know what the heros journey is episode"

Hint: the heros journey has nothing to do with love interests. OP's picture is NOT the heros journey.

Your reading comprehenssion is low level.

Stripping down a movie structure to its basic means only the most important point remain.

A dance-off implies two participants. If you challenge a man to a duel but shoot him before he can accept, you didn't have a duel. You distracted him.

Do you just call everyone who challenges your opinions pedantic?

>get told about the MCU being the same movie over and over
>i-it's not hackery it's the hero's journey!!1

Pathetic tee bee eich

>change argument from "he wasn't emotional over the death!" to "w-well he always was like that in the comics!"

absolutely pathetic, you got BTFO hard

>see
>
I fail to see the point, there.

>oh are we pretending the magical destroyer armor was just made up for the movies now
no, but it sure as hell wasnt in his origin you stupid idiot. That is not skewing towards the comics. That is skewing away.

you still havent named a single movie that fits the marvel formula

so you admit that these are important and all the same then, and its been pointed out multiple times that many other movies differ in these important ways?

The Force Awakens :^D

neither have you because there is no formula