Secret Empire's going to be okay... r-right...?

...

>Marvel gonna have a fucking event that gonna sale probably 30k
They already destroying number 1s, now events. It's literally the 90's again. All we need now is a big indie crossover and we're set.

I HURT MYSELF TODAY

Can't be worse than Civil War 2.

Honestly Marvel needs to bomb hard for them to go back to making good comics. Let them learn people get tired ot these events if they're one after another. DC learned how to market and please the public after a bit of experimentation with the Nu52 and while they're still not perfect, it's at least better than what they had.

Let Marvel bomb. It's not that people don't want diversity. It's that people want good stories where the characters they like aren't replaced by anyone. As well as being able to read a single book without other writers messing with it. This is why Fraction's Hawkeye was so successful, as well as early Kamala.

I cannot fucking believe that they're gonna do a hero v hero bullshit event again after the train wreck that was CWII. It's not even anger at this point, it's just confusion and disbelief for me

Which is sad because it's had logical buildup and is going to be helmed by a writer who's decent at worst. I mean, "larger than the Annihilation wave" aside, enough thought had been put into it that it should be interesting. Yet it's still going to sell worse than Bendis' turd because Marvel doesn't know how to handle or promote their properties beyond generating anger.

What if it turns out to be hero vs. villain, but this time the heroes are the antagonists?

>appeal to sjws and pander hard to their market
>people who actually buy comics do a 180 while sjws clap for diversity while still not buying anything

Please tell me this happened.

Sad thing is all of the decent writers that could salvage this trash pile have bolted to Image.

They've been doing shitty seasonal events for 30 years and they're not going to stop now. I think CWII was the first one ever to actually hurt sales of the books tieing in, so it's a bit too early to say without a doubt seasonal events are going away. Night of the Monster Men and Justice League vs. Suicide Squad were moderately successful at DC so nobody is going to take the message of "events don't sell anymore".

Also, the idea that "diversity" is what's turning away readers is something only Sup Forums believes. Books like the Mighty Thor, Ms. Marvel, and even Squirrel Girl and fucking Hellcat still sell well in trades, which is why Marvel isn't cancelling them in spite of shitty monthly sales.

The reasons Marvel has seen a downturn in sales are:
-DC eating up sales with bimonthly books and the huge success of Rebirth
-Marvel losing all their big name writers
-new readers being exhausted by relaunches
-shitty books not able to hold reader interest with monthlies that can't compete with bimonthlies
-Spider-Man sales collapsing because of Slott exhaustion
-Avengers sales collapsing because of relaunches and lack of movie synergy
-lack of big Marvel movies this season (when Avengers 3 comes out, sales are going to skyrocket again)

Again, this idea that readers are tired of "SJW" shit is a complete myth. That stuff brings free advertisement to the books at best from the Twitter outrage and doesn't affect sales at worst. Fags on Reddit (not Tumblr) still support the SJW shit and actually DO buy the books in droves. It just happens Rebirth is the current hot thing for these posers. Tumblr also DOES buy trades, as much as Sup Forums likes to say they don't, from B&N and Amazon. Trade sales have been on an upward trend for years and continue to do so, which makes LCS owners buttmad that they can't compete with online retail.

This summer Marvel will have another diversity stunt coinciding with the hot new movie and an event that will result in better sales again.

Is Ryan /ourguy/? His twitter replies are posted here a lot.

>30k
>implying they won't have Disney pay to keep it at around 100k then sell it as toilet paper.

Between this and the economics thread, Marvel interns are on full damage control mode.

>this idea that readers are tired of "SJW" shit is a complete myth. That stuff brings free advertisement to the books at best from the Twitter outrage and doesn't affect sales at worst

Funny thing is that Marvel's CEO is basically the most anti-SJW person ever.

Nah he's right. There's no real evidence of it hurting sales, no real evidence of it helping sales either though.
It's just advertisement but for the most part people just read the clickbait and don't actually look into comics.

Mighty Thor doesn't have shit monthly sales.
Hellcat's sales aren't great pretty much universally.
Ms. Marvel's trade sales aren't appreciably better than other books like SG.

Get your shit straight.

>Nah, I'm right
Fixed.

They did thqt one already. The onslaught red skull event.

I'm shittalking Marvel, how am I doing damage control?

Explain how for YEARS it did nothing but help sales, and then all of a sudden everyone apparently turns against it, and this just HAPPENS to coincide with a poorly received event that has no SJW shit and a big reboot at DC that's been very well received and has bimonthly books eating up a larger percentage of readers' money? Do you think it's more likely that the SJW shit is the cause when that's not affected sales for years, or the other two things that we can see from numbers are both true?

Well, in this case I'm just talking anecdotally from three massive book stores in three different college towns, and one in just a regular major town. I'm good friends with a lot of book store staff, not comic store staff though.

Again, anecdotes, but when 99% of our information on reader trends comes from LCS staff anecdotes, I think it's just as legitimate as anything else.

Also trades have the advantage of being able to continue selling and making money years after their release, so though Ms. Marvel's new release volumes don't set the charts on fire, the earlier volumes are continuing to sell very well, as well as the other books I mentioned, and the latter volumes will continue steady sales for years to come. This is why the market is moving towards trades. Ms. Marvel #1's sales drop off after a month, Ms. Marvel vol. 1's sales have stayed strong month after month. It's the one smart move Marvel is making.

>
>I'm shittalking Marvel
>(You)
>I'm shilling for them
Make up your mind.

>has no SJW shit
It was an allegory to racial profiling, with characters bringing that point on several ocasions.

>Night of the Monster Men and Justice League vs. Suicide Squad were moderately successful at DC so nobody is going to take the message of "events don't sell anymore".
This is a good point, though Civil War 2 could theoretically be the first domino to fall as far as Marvel's events are concerned.

How do IvX's sales look?

>They've been doing shitty seasonal events for 30 years
In the 90s you had like what? Age of Apocalypse and Onslaught? I don't remember anything else. As a matter of fact their first big event after onslaught was maximum security, which was 5 years after onslaught. and it took another 5 years to have Civil War.

Seasonal events are a thing for the last 10 years, not 30 years, jesus christ

hellcat is cancelled

Is it? IS IT REALLY?
Don't get my hopes up.

>How do IvX's sales look?
very meh.

Yeah the Jemas years were deliberately anti-event. There were none, big name writers got their own fiefdoms to do as they wished. Fans complained about how it no longer felt like a shared universe anymore.

Leah announced it on twitter that she will leave marvel like, 3 months ago
The 3rd tpb will be the last one

Wasn't that just a bad game of telephone? I thought she said that she was tired of not being able to write explicitly LGBT characters and when she's doing creator-owned stuff she'd do so. But she only mentioned having her hands tied by Marvel not actually leaving. Or so I thought.

she was posting about going back to her roots.
the thing is the solicits sort of confirm more or less that it's ending

I mean for fuck sake, hellcat run is longer than all-new all-different avengers and vision, and it sells like 1/10 of them

>Again, this idea that readers are tired of "SJW" shit is a complete myth
Why are you quoting me? I'm saying the opposite.

Bennet said that and it was (probably) about Josie & the Pussycats, not a Marvel book.

It has been one month since the last one. How can Marvel still have not figured this out yet. If you want a universe tie in book, just have a weekly series like 52. One year long story that books can either tie into or ignore.

What the fuck happened to John Cassaday?

Wait, more hero v. hero bull? Do they even have super villains anymore, and if so, how do you tell the damn difference.

Holy fuck is it that time already? we've had like 3 issues of Ultimates that wasnt fucked by CWII, i just want to read super super avengers in peace.

>free advertisement

It also turns off millions of potential readers who don't agree with that agenda.

>and doesn't affect sales at worst

outrage sales temporarily. It dissipates and all those Social justice retards move on after their one time Mockingbird buy feeling a meaningless sense of accomplishment.

Meanwhile, derivatives from Captain America to Iron Man to Spider-man to Thor all sell worse than the originals. That's because both reddit and tumblr are newer smaller markets. This isn't conjecture, its shown by the overall decreasing Marvel readership.

The problem is, there isn't a counter argument, both companies pander to these groups. There isn't a fox news of comics. And that is the real shame, because comics need more readers not fewer.

Nah, he is hilldawg

Hey buddy, what you're saying makes complete sense and is completely reasonable

That kind of talk ain't allowed on modern Sup Forums. You best leave while you still can

Yeah, Marvel shills gtfo

why does it look so terrible, I had some hype for this event.

Kinda He's a die hard hill supporter who believes trump will cause the apocalypse. At the same time he's a small business owner who recognizes that Marvel's pandering isn't working in his store.

It depends on what you define as an event. If you count Age of Apocalypse then you'd have to count Clone Saga, X-Cutioner's Song, Maximum Carnage, Operation Galactic Storm, Heroes Reborn, and maybe some other title-centric crossovers. Larger crossovers comparable to Civil War and the like would be Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade and that might've probably been the only line-wide crossover during the 90's (unless you count Acts of Vengeance which started in 1989 and might've concluded in 1990).

Also worth noting that for years rational people had to argue the opposite, that DC wasn't going to die because they have a very strong trade market.

>Ms. Marvel's trade sales aren't appreciably better than other books like SG.

Actually it is. Bookscan's numbers for 2015 had Ms Marvel vol 1 be their second best TPB seller at non-comic shops. That reminds me, I wonder when Brian Hibbs will analyze the 2016 Bookscan numbers.

Which was true and still is. New 52 trades still sell fantastically half a decade later.

DCYou was actually an attempt to cater more directly to the trade readers who were people outside the normal LCS demographic, namely females who as anyone who knows manga sales know are a huge potential market for comics and are key to the success of things like Saga. However it seemed that the monthly sales were so bad that there couldn't be any word of mouth generated and the trades were going to suffer.

So Rebirth is an attempt to recapture both the normal LCS demographic AND the people who made New 52 trades such big successes, and the bimonthly schedule permits twice as many trades a year which are already selling like hotcakes.

I do wonder if DC is later going to make another more aggressive attempt at that demographic that Marvel is relatively dominant in, which is young adult females, later in the year. Gotham Academy was and still is successful, I know pre-Rebirth Batgirl was moderately successful but I don't know how the Rebirth equivalents are faring so far.

Yeah, but that was where the villains were mindwarped into becoming heroes. I'm thinking more "villains fighting against Captain Hydra's fascist rule." It'd be for self-serving reasons since a hyper-authoritarian state with a hard line on crime and villainy would be bad for business.

Of course we don't really know enough about Secret Empire yet to say for sure what it's going to be about so we'll see.

Yeah, it's cancelled and Leith is so butthurt over the cancellation that she vowed to quit mainstream comics indefinitely.

I thought it was the other way around, she was butthurt about editorial not letting her do retarded shit so is quitting and therefore the book is cancelled.

I got the impression that that was her just trying to save face.

Stating a fact about sales that doesn't paint Marvel in a better light is not shilling no matter how you cut it, try harder next time.

There weren't as many company wide events ie books you had to read because they shaped events for entire universe, but there were more crossovers

Like if you read Spider-Man you didn't have to read Age of Apocalypse or Blood and Thunder unlike now if you read X-Men you needed to read Infinity a book relatively devoid of X-Men moments but just so happened to be start of the most important storyline of the decade.

...

Reminder that Marvel are overshipping linewide an extra 10% on top of all their overshipping that they do on a series by series basis.

A new event after not even 6 months after MU? Fuck this shit, even fucking Monsters Unleashed happen not even 3 months after CWII.

Fuck Marvel and fuck this crossover bs that drags good books to shit tie-ins.

At least fucking DC is having a minimal crossover/event thing going on until the Summer

>ten part event
Jesus Christ, I didn't know that. Marvel is killing themselves right out of the fucking gate.

wait there was an event after CWII?

CWII from June to December with 29 tie-ins and 9 exclusive event-books & main-book
Monsters Unleashed from January to March with 8 tie-ins
Hydra Wars from April/May/June maybe to November if the main-book is double shipping with another insame amount of tie-ins

>Sup Forums-twitter caps
We Sup Forums now

>now

Kate Leth was on Josie?

>ten part event
I can't wait to see how it ends when the last issue comes out in 2019.

>4.99

I'm surprised Marvel didn't pull a lvl.3 Maximum jew and put that 8.99 for the first issue.

>millions
I feel like comic sales aren't really measured in millions any more and haven't been for longer than SJW's have been a thing.

Marvel: House Of Horribly Deformed Fascist-Enablers

>Carol's reputation with casual and hardcore fans in shambles thanks to Civil War II
>Movie still doesn't have a director
>"Hey! Let's do another event where she's an authoritative asshole!"

At this point, I suspect deliberate sabotage

Wait, they're already going into another event?

Civil War 2 literally just ended last month

The difference is that N52 was a huge seller and DCYou was a critical darling.

Marvel has combined the poor sales of DCYou with the fan alienation of N52, and pissed off everyone.

Events are the only Marvel comics that sell. They have to be in perma-event mode now.

Somebody got PAID to draw that.

Somebody else got PAID to authorize that.

And somebody else is PAID to oversee the entire process.

Seriously...did some 'make a wish' kid want to be a Marvel artist before he died?!?

Secret Empire starts in May, which is when their summer events usually start. It's just that CWII, like Secret Wars, got hit with so many delays that it lasted way longer than it was supposed to.

oh boy are you in for a surprise

>lack of big Marvel movies this season (when Avengers 3 comes out, sales are going to skyrocket again)

>This summer Marvel will have another diversity stunt coinciding with the hot new movie and an event that will result in better sales again.

Strange was the most successful of the origin movies that the MCU has done and it didn't increase sales in his on-going in any appreciable manner from casuals nor interest people in catalogue titles of his

And if this were true, CWII would have benefited from the most successful of the MCU movies - CA-CW. Rather, it only hardened casuals positions on the MCU characters, none of them really being in on-going books (and showing that Falcon can't carry a book despite movie synergy, ditto BW, even Vision didn't add sales by casuals, etc. etc.)

If they did a Hawkeye movie that actually had Kate and Pizza Dog, versus kids, farms, etc. would it work?

>Gotham Academy

I had read somewhere else on this board a few weeks back that this was cancelled but when I tried to search for that info, couldn't really find it. I know it was on the bubble pre-Rebirth but survived for Second Semester. Not sure how much the Lumberjanes cross-over actually helped.

I don't want Spencer to kill himself, I like his indie work

Marvel is in the middle of two minor events right now, IvX and Monsters Unleashed. At least MU is contained in the main mini and separate one-shots instead of ruining everything like CWII.

I think the comics division will sabotage now that Perlmutter and Bendis are out of the MCU.

How often do they make events nowadays? Every month?

Marvel's CEO has nothing to do with the comics

>How often do they make events nowadays? Every month?
Depends on how you define them: Big Summer Events (like CWII) are about once a year; but they have crossovers and smaller 'events' pretty much all the time.

For example: Death of X and Inhumans vs X-Men (the latter is still ongoing) crossed over with the X-Books but everyone else more or less ignored it; and Monsters Unleashed is completely self-contained with the tie-ins being .MU issues that are not part of the regular numbering and not by the regular creative teams (and completely skipable if the few I bothered to read were any indication).

Which isn't much different from the Distinguished Competition where you had Rebirth (line wide); followed by Night of the Monster Men (Bat books only crossover event); followed by Justice League vs Suicide Squad; followed by Superman Reborn (upcoming Supe's books crossover event); followed by The Button (upcoming Flash/Batman crossover event following up on Mr Oz and The Comedian's button that Bats found embedded in the wall of the Batcave at the very start of DC Rebirth).

you forgot Clone Conspiracy but basically right on the nose
both companies are constantly making crossovers because its one of the easiest ways to promote smaller comics by being connected to the big ones (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men)
they've done this for decades, it's nothing new at all

What's this even about?

Sexy Steve Rodgers just pulled a keikaku started with an abandoned Remender part and is fighting to become the new leader of Hydra/America and make both of those great again
Spencer is writing a great Steve but his Sam book is complete trash and should of been back-ups or something

>keikaku
?

Translator's note: 'keikaku' means plan

Ugh, typical white males. They equate audience's interest to fucking sales!

What? Marvel's CEO has nothing to do with the movies. He has everything to do with the comics.

also Quasar is now a qt girl and they made a cosmic cube into a sentient loli who for some reason hasn't interacted with Singularity at all

"Authoritative asshole" is her character though. If you don't like that then fine, whatever, but that's who she is.

>you forgot Clone Conspiracy
My bad (in my defense I've been ignoring Slotterman since Superior ended).

I also forgot to mention that JL vs SS leads into/is set up for (Batman and the) JLA Rebirth.

I am hoping that, since Trump Win, he make the conclusion that SJW book won't sell in the new political climate and purge them.

>the new political climate
You mean the one with daily massive protests because of all the backlash to Trump? If anything, they'd just double down because then they can cash in on all the anger. They might tone it back because of slumping sales as a result of oversaturating the market with that shit, but you're delusional if you think Perlmutter is going to step in and go "OK guys, my boy Trump won so now we pander to conservative values."

>He has everything to do with the comics.
Actually, outside of pinching pennies and generally getting his Jew on he's pretty hands off (ie he slashed the Editorial staff when he bought the company but he's clearly a Republican and the editorial direction is clearly not).

He was directly responsible for the lack of a Black Widow solo flick (because apparently Catwoman and Electra prove people don't like girl capes even though the existence of Underworld, Resident Evil, and Tomb Raider show Action Girls can sell just fine, thanks); but he's really just interested in making as much money for as little investment as he can.

no worries, its not good enough to register on most radars lol
but I'm willing to bet at any given time since 2000, there's been at least 3 of either Batman/Superman/Spider-Man/X-Men event impacting smaller comics
just standard practice
hell, it's been happening since the 90s

>Underworld, Resident Evil, and Tomb Raider show Action Girls can sell just fine
But not fine enough.

>he's pretty hands off
Tell that to X-men and Fantastic Four fans.

Got to admit you have a point here. I didn't see it that ways.
Maybe the Marvel books could go both ways. Have the same SJW bullshit book for the protester, despite they don't sell, and have some traditional book or at least neutral for the rest.

After all the country is divided in two, so to sell the most, you got to sell to everyone.

In the same time, I will still be buying DC. JLA/SS was fun and I love the new Superman.

Likewise, things like constantly changing costumes is classic Perlmutter edict because he comes from the toy industry and sees that as avenue for more merch sales. More costumes means more toys.