Are yubaba and zeniba the same person?

are yubaba and zeniba the same person?

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Yes, because Yubaba was a replicant the whole time

A tulpa.

seriously guys my fucking world is being rocked right now

i never seriously considered the bits where turns into a bird and flies the fuck off along the train tracks towards zeniba's hut

This is unironically making me think.

and i'm not exaggerating when I say she flies along the tracks, this is a shot from the movie

like wtf, before i always thought they were just being lazy by making them twin sisters but now seems way more interesting and makes more sense

Why does it make more sense?
Why would she do that?

what other coherent explanation is there for yubaba turning into a bird a flying off? even the first few times i saw the movie that scene seemed bizarre. should we just assume that she's going to do business or "adventuring" or whatever?

it also kind of fits into a vague theme of moral relativism in the movie. no face is neither good nor evil, but rather a corrupted entity in need of affection. even yubaba herself isn't always presented as an evil witch, she shares several moments of compassion and appreciation with chihiro.

it's the same when we're introduced to zeniba, though reversed. she's initially presented as being just as villainous and attacks haku with the little paper bird things, and continues to fuck with bo and the other bird by casting spells on them. she doesn't put on the whole sweet "granny" thing until chihiro gets to her hut

not a great explanation but it's certainly more interesting to me than accepting that the writers were being lazy

i guess the idea is just that zeniba and yubaba are the same person that's constantly exploring this duality of good/bad in her personality, similar to no-face's internal conflicts

arr rook same!

So yubaba flies off into the woods and pretends to be her own sister so she can act like a nice person to see how that feels? Seems absolutely pointless.

I assumed she was just flying to important spirit business meetings

So are you suggesting she's schizophrenic or whatever you'd call it? You're suggesting she snuck into her own bath house and cursed her own baby? She suffered No Face wrecking her bath house and then offered him a place to live in her rural cottage? Haku stole magic from Zeniba without realizing she was his master Yubaba?

Why is it lazy for them to be sisters, because they look the same? As if Studio Ghibli couldn't possibly have designed a different witch than Yubaba if they wanted to?

yes

Shit, I don't know you but I want to say you'd enjoy movies more if you stopped trying so hard.

Can’t check atm. Do we know this is the way torwards the cabin or the other direction?

enjoying movies?

>Miyazakis son tries to make movies without any guidance from his father, they all flop
>Father calls him a failure, hack etc. he doesn't have an ounce of skill to even take over the company.

what a cunt, what a pretentious piece of shit this is not how you teach someone how to take over a company, i would bet he was a shitty dad that never taught his son much which is why he went to a completely different field and only decided to take over just to keep it in the family.

youtu.be/BfxlgHBaxEU

This video alone just shows he's a wanker that has to inject stupid opinions into everything.

/ourguy/ oshii revealing miyazaki's pedophilia

Is she a Jew?

Well if you read the whole story as a dream it is of course all the same person.

He's a pretty shitty person. I don't get why he has so many admirers.
He's also a communist, so he probably deserves to be executed and made an example out of.

HOW LONG WERE THE STUCK IN THE SPIRIT WORLD??

WAS IT REALLY 35 YEARS???

That sounds like some creepypasta fan theory. Where is that notion from?

From the overgrown trees/moss/grass on the building. The car seems to have been a few weeks atleast, but the building had changed drastically.

No, they're twin sisters. They just look the same.

/thread

What I want to know is what the fuck the deal with Noh-face was. I literally never got what he was trying to convey, thematically or in terms of what his motivation/character was.

bamp

I don't know, man.

he was a lonely creep who was never going to make friends, no matter how many showers he had or how much money he had.

Chehiro seems to be the only one who can see him on the bridge. Then she invites him in to the bath house. He wants her to like him but the only way he knows is to give people what he thinks they want. Chehiro doesn't want to use him but everyone else does and he gets drunk on the fake love but can't get the real love from Chehiro. Idk

No they aren't but I can't for the life of my imagine why anyone would think it was a good idea to make them look the same. I imagine it would be confusing as fucking hell for little kids.

Not like Zeniba should look like a Disney-tier sweet/cute granny baking cookies and shit, but how about you don't make the lesson-teacher identical to the villain? Hell, even if they were the same person, it's still not something kids would have any hope of understanding.

it represented modern Japan

she's THE matriarch

That's a pretty sexy little girl, Ollie.

>I don't get why he has so many admirers.

I think those movies he made might have something to do with it.

He's a straight forward depiction of greed
All the people kept coming to him to get more and more money, but in the end greed fucked them in the ass
The girl was not harmed by him because she was of a greed less nature

Not literally, but the point is that there is a shift in Chihiro's perspective. She's matured enough to not be scared of Yubaba anymore.

I always took the film as being a story about growing up, She loses her parents, she find herself in a scary place full of weird looking creature-people trying to capture her and she only trusts a selected few people until she slowly adapts to the world and starts to fit in more and shows that she isn't scared anymore.

I'm sure it has something to do with the film's themes of duality in aspects of personalities.

The entire movie is about how greed and fortune can't make you happy
I could write it but I'm on my phone
Also Kiki's is about Monarch and how kids are growing up way too early in modern times

i thought this was what is was about to, plus her last line had me choking back tears. did other people not get this?

Only in the final cut you mong

Well, what's wrong with it? (Nothing)

other people already said various popular theories but I stand by the one where the bath house is a direct representation of prostitution and bath goers as clients.
No face was a lonely guy and Chihiro seemed nice and genuine to him, unlike most prostitutes who are fake as shit and only want your money, she invited him in just to have a good time and later didnt want anything material he had to offer her.

>he's also a communist
what?

mang, its commentary on how bitches be crazy

y-yea haha imagine a young girl just i-inviting you into her r-room for a good time hahaha as a joke hahahaha

Miyazaki probably isn't greedy and selfish enough for american standards so he gets labeled as a commie.

in my experience its really, really, really hard not to ._.

The fact that she's a young girl doesnt really matter in context of the general idea, she's just a representation of a generally nice prostitute.

It kinda does if you're following through on the whole prostitution angle. As freshly turned out girls are encouraged to cultivate a circle of regular customers as quickly as possible because their freshness and lack of cynicism will stand in sharp contrast to veterans who've come to know all the tricks and are obviously acting.

I mean fuck, if you want to keep running with the prostitution angle, spirited away was basically taxi driver except from the perspective of iris and no-face was just travis bickle, which fits kinda too fucking well to just be an asspull.

you do know bath houses are an actual thing in Japan, right? it isn't really supposed to represent something else, it's literally a bath house.

bath houses typically don't have that type of full service, yo.

There's also the pretty obvious symbolism in chihiro's first job, she reaches deep inside a slimy blob, grabs something hard, yanks it, and all his discomfort and frustration is expelled from him in a single massive expulsion. Then he pays and leaves her to clean up the mess.

He's a spirit, a spirit of greed. The spirit of greed.

someone just watched the deuce

I remember reading that Miyazaki didn't like his kid making movies because they were handed to him in a silver plate for being his son, he said something along the lines of "you must first understand all the other process involved in the production before you're ready".
He's just a typical asian father.

>all his discomfort and frustration is expelled from him
sounds like he had a relaxing bath desu
what's the point of it secretly being about prostitution anyway? how does that contribute to the message of a kids film?

>It kinda does if you're following through on the whole prostitution angle. As freshly turned out girls are encouraged to cultivate a circle of regular customers as quickly as possible because their freshness and lack of cynicism will stand in sharp contrast to veterans who've come to know all the tricks and are obviously acting.

New prostitutes dont necessarily have that innocent charm Chihiro was supposed to represent, it's a matter of personality and attitude, she's just the good girl hard working type that you rarely see nowadays. Heck most prostitutes today even if they start young they're just plain whores, I feel like Chihiro was meant to be the good girl who ended up in the wrong place, hence why she finds her way out of there in the end instead of staying.

its a girl's coming of age story

>how does that contribute to the message of a kids film?

That's just it, Miyazaki is a pretentious cunt, he has to shove shit like that because he isn't satisfies with his works being too simple.

most girls aren't prostitutes user...

>Seems absolutely pointless

Well, film is rather pointless.

So why is it specifically sexual? What in the imagery suggests sex? The bath house doesn't look seedy and the workers aren't wearing particularly sexy or suggestive clothing. The customers are jolly, sitting in baths and not making advances towards the staff.

... oh my sweet summer child

I personally thought he was supossed to represent misguided youth or someone that is emotionally underdeveloped and doesn't know how to act around people, so he does what he thinks would make people happy.
Like he sees how the people at the bathhouse are greedy, they are happy when he gives them gold, so he automatically thinks that Chihiro would like him too if he gave her gold.
Then when we see him at Zeniba's hut he seems much more chill because he finally got a purpose in life.

>that has to inject stupid opinions into everything.

He's running his company.

the point of of the scene is chihiro basically gives the rivergod a happy ending.

user do you know what representation and metaphor means?

why though?

Because that's what the rivergod needed?

I can read the scene any way I want if I don't connect my reading on the actual imagery. It's genuinely more fitting to read it as the river god taking a good shit, as he initially looks like shit and gets into a bowl full of water in order to purify himself. There's a lot of toilet imagery in that sequence. And bath houses are literally something you go to in order to cleanse yourself.

>wah! why didn't you spoonfeed me dad? wah!

>why is it specifically sexual?
Because japan

Also learning the needs of men is part of growing up as a girl.

>I can read the scene any way I want if I don't connect my reading on the actual imagery

You realize this is an admission that the imagery of the scene is representative of a happy ending, right?

Fid you ever took a bath after a hard day's work and just stayed there for a while because it feels good? It feels good and it has nothing to do with sex
I swear, people invented the sex thing to make the movie more fitting to their adult minds. That "shove sex into everything because it makes it look mature" is cringy shit.

why do westerners have to see sex in everything, they are obsessed

Not really, because you are ignoring context. I provided an interpretation of the entire sequence, you are concentrating on that one bit because you can't connect it with the rest of the imagery. Why is the bathhouse a bordello? What the movie actually shows are acts of cleaning. Not sex, not even suggested sex. There is an entire scene of Chihiro cleaning the dirtiest tub with no customer presence whatsoever. She's a fucking toilet cleaner, that's something below prostitutes.

And you're ignoring the fact that this whole prostitution discussion started from No Face and his motive for obsessing over Chihiro. If you try to explain that, the whole prostitution metaphor fits right into place.

I'm not convinced that this isn't another case of reading the plot a certain way so people can fetishize the characters. Did myazaki confirm that prostitution was the topic/represented image? Or is this purely based on the reaching into a slime monster?

The character is called No Face, not Not Laid. He's not trying to buy sex, he wanted an identity.

noh-face was nice to chihiro because she was the person who let him in to the bath house. it's nothing to do with prostitution.

>Is a client at a bath house
>specifically asks for Chihiro even though he has mountains of other workers fawning over him including the Boss herself
>when asked by Chihiro what he wants he replies with "I want you"
>after he turns normal again he follows her everywhere she goes until Yubaba tells him to stop

Yup he sure wanted her "identity" alright

Chihiro was also the only character to approach No Face when he had no voice. She also purifies him much like she purified the River God, but I really doubt that anyone besides fetishists find something sexual about No Face vomiting.

>until Yubaba tells him to stop
No Face stops following Chihiro because Zeniba gives him a job, and he finally has a purpose. At the start of the movie Chihiro almost turned into a see-through lost soul because she didn't belong in the spirit world, and the reason she was saved is because Haku empathised with her. Chihiro following Haku around and No Face following Chihiro around aren't totally unrelated.

outside hollywood, characters are allowed to not be unidimensional stereotypes.

how does any of that prove it's about prostitution?

Miyazaki made the movie for his daughter because he was tired of all female characters in cartoons having their aspirations be falling in love with some guy. It's just a bathhouse.

It doesn't.

What coherent explanation is there for anything in that movie?

One day you will accept that the only way to understand a story is to actively think about it.

>most prostitutes who are fake as shit and only want your money,
you haven't knew many whores.
80% of them are very professional and interested in gave you a great time
10% are unproffesional, disgusting human beings, that probably won't stand for long in the bussiness
10%, you actually connect with them at a personal level, and want them to become part of your life

100% of them want your money and will play whatever role you seem to want to get it

she's going to visit her sister, something normal siblings do

Or a girl's age of coming story...

I like this

Holy kek are you actually proud of this

nigga you're getting played by prostitutes

Hohohoho what a loser.