Are all comics like this?

So I recently sat down and read New 52 Superman comics #1-51 and all I can say is WHAT THE FUCK.

>#1-6
Alright so it introduces Superman and where he works and all that and has a weird plot about nanites. Not terrible, but not very good for first issues and hooking people for more.
>#7-12
Three 2 issue stories. First focused on Helspont and seems to be leading up to something big in the future. One about some edgy girl stealing a locket and hates everyone. And then some random alien kills a bunch of people in Russia before getting sent back to his world. Again not terrible, but Helspont story never continues and the edgy girl is never ever seen again so overall these were a waste despite being somewhat interesting.
>#13-17 H'el on Earth
I personally liked H'el despite some people not really liking him, but the problem here is its a crossover event so one issue H'el has just shown up and the next issue its basically him putting his master plan in motion.
>#18-24
Pretty much a shit arc. Superman is next to useless for most of it while psionic people fight each other. Psycho Pirate shows up out of nowhere for pretty much no reason. Lois is a psionic now....just terrible what the fuck...
>#25 Krypton Returns
Now what the fuck is this? I'm just tossed into the end of a story. Reading the H'el comic its great he came back but seriously another stupid crossover and disjointed story.
>#26-31
Superman fights parasite and Lois loses her memory of Clark being Superman, but then comes back as Brainiac Lois and Superman is now Doomsday? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS???

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>#33-38
Finally a solid coherent story. Ulysses ends up in prison and he could come back as either a redeemed hero or still be angry at Superman. I wonder what will--- Never mind he'll never show up again.
#39-51
Just fuck my shit up. The absolute most trash stories i've ever read about Superman. Not only is most of it disconnected and disjointed like the rest of the series its just plain trash. Who the fuck thought Superman being a wrestler was a good idea? No powers Superman just sucks. Awful. I love Vandal Savage but he's ruined just by being associated with this.

>#52
>#51 was Superman pulling Lois into the sky to talk to her
>#52 opens up with Superman battling that guy from Fantastic Four
>close book

So honestly guys what the fuck is this? Why can't we get a coherent story? How can they expect people to follow along when they put bits and pieces into every other comic. It's almost pointless to have a numbering system when nothing follows up or matters.

And then to top it all of they just kill off Superman. Jonathon Carroll is forgotten by Lois half way through. I know Superman has some relationship with Wonder Woman, but then he doesn't. Just why. Are all comics like this?

>Just why
The people behind the scenes had no fucking idea what they were doing. Constant shakeups both with creative and editorial had people changing directions mid sprint

> Are all comics like this?
No of course not. Why would ONE comic represent all of them? It doesn't work that way for any other form of entertainment

Superbro was a mistake.

You did this to yourself.

Reading New 52 "Action Comics" you would at least pick some good stories every now and then. But New 52 "Superman" belongs in the trash.

With just one arc, Tomasi's "Superman" was already miles better than the entirety of New 52 Superman.

>Why would ONE comic represent them all?

Well I figured a character as popular as Superman would be held to a higher standard, but this was just wow. I feel bad for people who actually followed this for 5 years. Nearly the whole thing was a constant crossover.

I hear Superman Unchained was good so maybe i'll read that next before I start getting into Rebirth stuff.

The ongoing isn't good, but why exactly did you ignore at the ends of issues when it would tell you the story continued into another book for crossovers?

Though generally speaking crossovers have been killing the Superbooks for like 30 years now though and they're about to do one in Rebirth too. Probably the worst part of the franchise and they keep doing it. I don't understand it.

What you SHOULD have done if you wanted to read all of New 52 Superman is buy/download the trades. Those are collected and organized in a way so that your problems with following events don't happen. And check it out, they're easy and numbered for you so you don't have to do anything.

Additionally, no, this isn't representative of other comics. If you read Batman #1-52, for example, it's all by one writer/artist team, so even though it's split into self-contained arcs, it's very easy to continue between them because they're interconnected.

See, the biggest misconception about comics is that you have to just start at #1 and go forward from there. Comics essentially go in "runs" by writers and artists. So for example you could get Action Comics vol 1-3 which are all part of a single run by Grant Morrison, then skip the next several volumes that suck dick, and pick up at vol. 5 or whatever where Greg Pak comes on as writer. Before the 80's in fact, runs weren't even easy to follow like "oh so-and-so comes on as writer at issue #50 and continues to issue #78". Nope. It'd be like "well so-and-so's run on Buttfuckman goes from issues #347-350, 352, 354-355, 360, 363-378, and then 389." But thankfully most of those are collected in trades now so that you don't have to pick out all the issues you want.

Superman has been notoriously troubled throughout the New 52. George Perez was made big promises by DC at first and pulled the rug out from under him, then editorial basically took over all the Superbooks and made them like you said one big crossover after crossover. Every other major series didn't have this problem and had pretty long, consistent runs.

You seem to actually have pretty good taste, so most likely you'll think Superman Unchained is a piece of shit.

Superman Unchained has some of the same problems that some of the Superman self-titled writers had, it has a villain similar to Helspont/Edgy Girl and H'el, Psycho Pirate, etc. Except it's more contained and readable. I read the deluxe edition from my local library and I don't have the problems folks had with Jim Lee's art, I just treated it like reading the Earth One graphic novels and it was fine, it was a bit closer to the pre-52 Superman books as well, particularly in Lois and Clark as friends, General Lane's depiction, etc. I wouldn't recommend buying it but you can easily find the issues on line to download as well as the trade.

Because I don't have those comics.

>the biggest misconception about comics is you start at #1 and go from there

Well I would think that would be the logical way to make them, but I guess not.

>#347-350 and then #352

That does sound awful. Also I have looked at TPB's before and still many of them have complaints about incomplete stories. I don't regret my Swamp Thing hardcover though that collected Vol 1-3.

My problem wasn't with them being edgy it was the fact that it never went anywhere or was contained in some other book. And Psycho Pirate well he just kind of came out of nowhere for not much reason.

The Superman trades have incomplete stories when it comes to cross-overs. Shit bothers me immensely.

>Because I don't have those comics.

Then skip over the crossover issues. It wasn't going to make sense without the other ongoings.

Haven't read almost any of the thread but
Yeah superman is notorious for being stuck in crossovers all the time
Morrison action comics is a great 20 issue run
Greg Pak could have had a great run but was fucked by the Xovers

I mean yeah had I known I would never have got them because almost 2/3 of it was crossover stuff.

Should have done my research but I wanted some background since Rebirth is still the same universe so I figured I should read some New 52.

>Are all comics like this?
Here's your standard Comics 101 starter pack.

Read these and then you'll understand that comics are just as rich and varied as any other medium.

This.

>How can they expect people to follow along when they put bits and pieces into every other comic

Because they expect you to buy every Superman comic, silly.

Superman doesn't have any great incontinuity run, except for Morrison's new 52 Action comics.
So the best bet for reading Superman is to look out for out of continuity limited series, like All Star and Birthright.

>not just reading Action Comics
That was the real New 52 Supes book, OP. The main title was the obligatory one while AC was the creative control one.

It's common practice for an ongoing title to switch creative teams every 6 or 12 issues. Basically, each team wants to etch their own mark in the mythos of a well known book, so what often happens is characters or plot lines get introduced, only to drop off the face of the Earth in the next arc once a new team takes over. The ultimate fault lies in with the editors and management. They should work harder to create a more seamless transition between creative teams. But more often than not, editors and management create even more problems when they choose to shoehorn in a major event, because then the originally intended storylines get put on hold or cancelled altogether. That's just the nature of the beast.

The goal with reading long running comics like Superman, is not to try to grasp an overall story, but rather, to embrace the little moments that make the characters so memorable. Cape comics don't have endings, so you shouldn't judge a story using that guideline.

>Are all comics like this?

Most comics are written by failed screenwriters/novelists (read: literal bloggers and fan fiction writers that can't get any other work).

Comics used to make at least some small amount of sense. Now they don't. It's as simple as that.

>It's common practice for an ongoing title to switch creative teams every 6 or 12 issues.

If that's true, then why is Slott still writing Amazing Spider-Man?

Because Slott is an autist that want to have the longest Spider-man run and doesn't care about its quality.
The man resurrected the Clone Saga, you can't more creative bankrupt than this

>Just why

Because $$$> quality.

also, Batman and Marvel comics in general, is even worse.
>Because I don't have those comics.
you can always pirate them not that it would make a big difference since that crossover is shit.

The whole new52 Superman line was plagued with inane crossovers and events, it was the biggest complaints fans had at the time. Also, the Superman book was average at best. Unchained and Morrisson's Action Comics, maybe Supergirl, are worth your time.

But to be honest, you were just retarded picking up 50 issues in singles. Hunt down the correct order, buy the trades, or don't bother.

>Milo Manara
huh
That was just added as a joke, right?
Also, some of this is technically Sup Forums.

Milo is great. Did you mistakenly read his Marvel crap or something? Poor you.

>some of this is technically Sup Forums
These are all comics. It doesn't matter where they come from.

I mean, it's just porn.

Beautifully-drawn porn from a master of the comic medium's visual side.

Serpieri is on there too for the same reason.

Some series in new 52 were plagued by crossoveritis, but i was also your fault for not looking a guide to follow all the stories.

A better place to look for Superman stories during new 52 was action comics but you didnt do any research.

Are all comics like this? If by that you mean crossoveritis, it comes and goes. Sometimes its good sometimes it isnt.

Quality varies like in ALL mediums.

You're not supposed to Superman 1-52 in a row like that, many stories continuation jump from Superman to Action comics, to Justice League, to Superman\Batman-Superman\Wonder-Woman, to JLA, etc.
You missed a shitload of content. You also missed stand alone stories like Doomed, Unchained, convergence,

>Doomed
>Convergence
He's better off without them.
Doomed was a pile of shit that wouldn't have told it's story in the 12 issues it was promised.
The only good part was the dynamic between the MC and his roommate.

And with Convergence, the tie ins were all great, with the worst being decent and short enough to not slog.
But the main book is the worst thing I've seen since Earth 2: World's End.

You understand that most talented old school comics artists have done porn, right?

>New 52
there's your problem

Dude, New 52 run of Batman is written by Snyder.

One guy.

Even if you can argue Zero Year wasn't as bad as 30 previous issues, shit's not worth it.

Not the Doomed ongoing, the Doomed crossover where Superman was Hulking out into Doomsday.

It was actually ok rather than bad, but OP missed the best issues of it from Pak's Action run.

I don't understand why there's so much love and yearning for Superbro now that he's dead, when I remember everyone hating the fuck out of him when the N52 was running.

Is Sup Forums divided and I just happened to see favorable opinions lately?

Is it because people enjoyed Action Comics but loathed the Superman mainline?

Was there that much of a difference between the two lines?

I'd really appreciate an explanation

>not liking Superman without powers and not liking Super Brawl

you sure have a shit taste mang.

first you need to undertstand that Sup Forums isnt a hivemind, some people may like and some may dont like.

Just like Rebirth, the exactly same thing, some like to death and some think it is bad/mediocre and so.

"when I remember everyone hating the fuck out of him" you just filter what you remember what of him, this will happen with both of those who liked and those who didnt.

The difference is the same with 2 different people writing, even in Rebirth: some may like Jurgens and some Tomasi, these isn't a single line of thought like: ALL NEW 52 SUPERMAN COMICS, or even before that like ALL POST-CRISIS SUPERMAN can be summed up in a single linear thing that has constant quality level. There are bads and goods parts.

Contrarians. I know the word is abused these days, but that's what it's happening.
New52 Superman was a disaster, so people here rightfully complained often about him and his books. However as soon as he died, some anons claiming that they always loved him appeared out of nowhere, making very stupid posts. You should just ignore them

The Fight Club arc was not part of a crossover. It was just during the shared status quo.

Use your noggin my man.

The only thing people hated was how he was presented in the Justice League ongoing, the overall quality of the "Superman" ongoing, and the SMWW romance.

General consensus was that Action Comics was recommended outside of crossovers and the brief period of time between the Morrison and Pak runs. Not that it was perfect but it was certainly fine to read.

damn, I miss that costume

For some reason people really don't "get" how the Superbooks tend to work. There was a brief period of time around 2006-2008 or so where you could read both of the main books more or less straight through but most of the time you have to jump around because of crossovers and convoluted number systems.

I went back and took a quick search for a story time of new 52 superman, just read the thread.

some like and some dont, normal.

desuarchive.org/co/thread/77053758/#77053758

>that guy who didn't know a quesadilla was food

truly a simpler time

>Are all comics like this?
>So I recently sat down and read New 52
The answer is already no.
Not all comics are as shitty as New 52.

Pre-Flashpoint Superman was the same though. Triangle years crossing over lasted a decade, then there was a couple of years' break before New Krypton, then another break (Black Ring vs Grounded, lmao), then some Doomsday crossover shit at the end.

There's a lot of good in there, but it's not easy to navigate.

>the killing joke
>good

Sup Forums needs to leave.

thx fellas

>I don't recognize 99% of this list, so I'll make myself feel superior by needlessly criticizing the one comic that I do recognize
Okay.

I don't want to make a new thread for this and this one seems friendly enough.

Are there two Lois' running around on our Earth or did she die too? I'm not clear on this. Why did the new Superman come over from his world and bring his family over? What's wrong with his world?
I didn't finish the new 52 superman, but I'm up to date with Rebirth but I'm still confused. Pls help

>did she die too?

Yup. She became Superwoman and turned to stone in the first issue.

Thanks, how about the new Superman coming over and staying? Is his world fucked or something?

I will add that even "Superman" had some charm to it at times. I think overall people just liked being hyperbolic about Superbro after he was shitty in the JL comic because it was easier than admitting that though we hated the status quo changes it wasn't all bad.

New 52 Lois is an energy being who will likely be solidified soon unless solicits are lying. She was kind of haunting Lana and there was some ambiguity if she was really there, but then a bizarro saw her too so she's still around.

>Thanks, how about the new Superman coming over and staying? Is his world fucked or something?

It's complicated. His world got written over and erased by Flashpoint and New 52, but he and old Lois were visiting Gotham at the time and it just so happened to be yanked out of reality by a multiversal Brainiac planet or something in the Convergence event. So they missed the change and wound up on New 52 Earth as extras where they don't belong.

His reality is gone. He's from the current universe but the timeline has changed. He and Lois avoided the changes due to being pulled out of the universe in Convergence. Theoretically there should be a bronze age Supergirl, bronze age Barry Allen, and Parallax Hal still around too but DC seems to be ignoring that.

Parallax Hal showed up for a bit, but ran off after him and current Hal fought. I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up again later.

>The Maxx
>Usagi
>The Spirit
>Bone
>Hellboy
>Tintin
>The Phantom
>Little Nemo
>Lone Wolf & Cub
I could go on but hot damn there's a lot of fantastic stuff on this list.

Wow that is complicated, thanks so much for explaining.

>See, the biggest misconception about capeshit is that you have to just start at #1 and go forward from there.
fixed that for ya

The upcoming Superman: Reborn event is basically there to permanently fold Superdad into the canon as the one true Superman. After that his backstory will be simplified.

It's implied in Multiversity and the convoluted as fuck ending to Convergence that the old worlds are still around-somewhere. There's more than one multiverse now and the 52 worlds are implied to be the "local" worlds in the multiverse.

They're stuck in limbo at the very least.

The important thing is that Tomasi's book is Superdad and Superson and its not the best Superman run but it is good and it is a breathe of fresh air.

I feel like it's probably not as hard to get as it is to explain. Sort of a poor decision on DC's part to do this at what should be an entry point for lapsed or new readers. I probably would have just paired Superbro and his Lois together since they were at the point where it would have felt natural anyway.

I think he'll probably fusion dance with Superbro's spirit or something. Too easy to just handwave it all by saying they were both fractured or something. I wish they would have cleaned it up right away though. The outsider Superman stuff where no one knew to trust him wasn't worth it.

Theupcomimg crossover looks like it won't be as much of a clusterfuck though. It's only two issues for each series and thanks to double shipping it will be done after one month. After it's done they go and do their own thing again.

We'll see how the content is, but at least the premise is mildly interesting, solving the Superdad/Superbro problem.

Yeah they'll probably give him Superbro's beginnings, fighting corrupt businessmen and what not, but keep the "classic" Superdad personality.

The ending crossovers are almost always that one or two month thing and they never look like they'll be that bad but then you get bullshit like War of the Supermen or Savage Dawn that doesn't solve anything in a satisfying way and makes you feel like you wasted months reading buildup with no release. I genuinely hope it's not bad, but I don't really have reason to believe it it will be good.

I think most importantly there needs to be some kind of admittance that the guy who comes out on the other end is both Superdad and Superbro in there so that the other characters get that miracle to make up for the months of mourning. Just no other way to follow up on all his guest appearances directly mentioning how though he's A legitimate Superman he's not THEIR Superman and that still sucks. Or I don't see why that would have been highlighted if they're not going to do something with it at least, but as stated above these things always disappoint so I guess I'm just hoping we get normal status quo and normal stories after it's done.

Read "Superman Lois and Clark", it's by the same guy writing Action Comics right now and tells the "crossing over" story. Supes and his family were captured by a Brainiac working on a multidimensional level, saving them from the Flashpoint rebllt they lived normal powerless lives in thos bubble world, until the events of Convergence where he battles against other captures superheroes in gladiatorial games, blah blah, and he ends up in New52 Earth years in the past, when New52 superheros where just starting out, he kept superheroing but in secret, until New52 Superman starts dying after his solar powers become unstable, he meets New52 Supes, briefly helps him with a villain, and witnesses his death. New52 Lois gets hit with a bolt of power with New52 Supes' powers, becomes Superwoman but soon turns to stone because the Supes whatever whatever energy is still unstable.

it's mostly superman
I remember when I searched for the joe kelly action comics issues and it was just a disjointed mess of random issues with specials and shit spliced in between

your're mother was a mistake

>the events of Convergence where he battles against other captures superheroes in gladiatorial games
I didn't read Convergence, was it just DC's Secret Wars?

You just read shit comics without any context, user.

Read the recommended stories. New 52 was mostly shit.

In a nutshell, yeah.

>I didn't read Convergence, was it just DC's Secret Wars?

Mostly, but with Elseworlds and it was almost totally irrelevant to the main continuity.

>Not just reading Morrison's Action Comics and calling it quits until Paktion Comics run