ITT: Dead characters who stayed dead, and yet are more interesting than Gwen Stacy

ITT: Dead characters who stayed dead, and yet are more interesting than Gwen Stacy.

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You mean a thread about all my favourites?

I still miss him, Sup Forums.

Every day.

He was and forever shall be /ourguy/.

...

Her death crushed me.
I wonder if they'll bring her back with the Hulu show and writers being as uncreative as they are at Marvel...

>>That feeling when not only great characters die, but worst ones not only keep on living, they're celebrated. I'm looking at you, Quentin Quire.

You know, I kind of thing Craig and Yost were jackasses. I mean, when you look at their X-Men interviews, they said how they wished they killed more characters off, and at the same time gush about how awesome X-23 was.

...

Even Brian, who got the least amount of character, was more interesting that Gwen Stacy.

Jeffrey. Ghost kid. Also officially dead.

More of them should have died.

I never liked her. I wish they killed Chase, too.

frank grimes

At this rate, you might as well call them decease.

Still more interesting that Gwen Stacy.

I don't like him either but at least he has a personality that makes you want to hate him.

Assholes have roles in books too, but there's a lot of safe uninteresting characters like Gwen, X-23, and Miles who get to live because editorial ordains.

god i cant even look at him without feling pain
i miss all the gang but i rather not have them on nu-marvel
maybe marvel will give brian k. a pile of money do do a new volume

>maybe marvel will give brian k. a pile of money do do a new volume
DO YOU WANT MORE DEAD RUNAWYS?! CAUSE THAT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!

Look, Kyle and Yost are definitely assholes, but at least the handled the x kids deaths well, as opposed to say, hopeless. And you can't deny that their nxm was world's better than what we're getting from nuMarvel

well is not like they are up to something, only niko is in a book and vic already kick the bucket

To be honest, I couldn't make it through their run. It just got so despairingly depressing, that I just quit. What's the point of reading if you know none of the characters will be happy. Hell, the New Mutants even treat the New X-Men like shit in their own book.

No, she was the most uninteresting. Her parents were the most boring out of the Pride. Even the whole 'u know yer daughters gonna die' thing was shit.

She was the just the whiny Californian Velma.

I miss her

You know, I wouldn't mind if it was him writing it? Something about the mass slaughter of characters to try to shake things up (New Xmen, Avengers arena) makes it far more shitty in my mind that a character dying and that death having residual effects on remaining the characters.

No they did not. They did it in one arc and no one gave a shit later. It made the X-men look shitty. The sentinels guarding the mansion look pointless and it could have easily been done by just letting the characters be depowered and leave. A death or two because of their powers not working like hydro or melody made sense but everything else was cruel for the sake of cruelty.

The thing most people seem to care about is that Oh Santo and Victor and funny now haha. Could have been done without killing everyone else.

We disagree. It's a'ight. What characters do you have to add to the conversation?

At least he was spared the horrors of modern marvel.

And let's be honest, a good chunk of the X-Men run was everyone gushing over X-23. From Mercury being torture to go "Oh my god, now I can relate to you Laura" or Hellion constantly obsessing over her. The fact that none of those dead X-Kids are even mentioned anymore shows how shallow it all was. Wolverine moved the kids back to the X-Mansion and the only writer to point out that was fucked up was Christos Gage!

I would buy multiple issues of whichever writer kills off Squirrel Girl.

>only the dead can know peace from this evil

>The fact that none of those dead X-Kids are even mentioned anymore shows how shallow it all was.

Exactly. I paid to read bit into their run but I got to a point where I wasn't going to pay for torture porn anymore. There wasn't a single character that didn't get fucked up in some way after that. It maybe not have all been their doing but they set a precedent for it.

I kept up with goings on free for a while but at some point no character I liked was left in tact.

Then people act like Marvel never had diverse new characters and they started all this nu Marvel shit and it's just salting all the wounds.

>cruel for the sake of cruelty
i think that was the point of the book

You mean the book where Editors told the writers to tone down the violence, nixed a character death and edited a page where a character got stabbed because it looked to gruesome? Yeah I guess they changed their mind.

And what's even more bullshit is how the X-Force stuff they did was mainly about "Hoo yeah! Look at this badass characters kicking ass and taking names!" You know those fans who go on and on about how awesome Wolverine and the Punisher are and how lame goodie two-shoes some heroes are? It really feels like Craig and Yost were portraying that their run. Like, look how many times Domino keeps putting her gun up to character's temples. For fucks sakes, she did that to a KEKOO!

>KEKOO
Cuckoo.
...Emma Frost Triplet Clone.
Let's not forget Warren Ellis acting like the fans claiming it was too gruesome followed up with this.

Does a dead imprint count? Chat still best girl.

i mean in a tematic way not ghrapical

>new X-men wankers

I cant still believe this faggot is now more relevant than any other x-kids, he is Gen X, he will be in Thor as Phoenix and he will be in Jean Grey #2.

Exactly what I was referring to here. It's almost like Marvel got a character popular by being stupid, goofy and irrelevant and now dumbasses love them.

I think she'll come back eventually. Elixir can literally resurrect the dead now and it's just a matter of them giving him some control of it while trying not to make him OP or something.

I just want her back. She was my favorite of that generation of kids. She lived a hard life only to see all of her friends lose their powers and then get her brains blown out. That's some Karma levels of getting shit on.

Don't forget her corpse being destroyed.

Unfortunately, the rule of comics is that if the characters in the books got over their deaths, they aren't coming back. For example, Captain America was going to come back after Civil War cause they WOULDN'T STOP BRINGING HIM UP. Gwen Stacy the same. Because they keep bringing them up, they keep being relevant again. Unfortunately, most of the current X-Men writers don't know any obscure X-Men outside Wolverine and the X-Men.

The only thing that they did well with regarding the kids was giving some spotlight and development to some of the other characters i.e. Anole, Rockslide, Pixie and to a lesser extent Loa. Real shame about how ruined Pixie was when she got picked up by Rucka though and Loa's probably the one character I get irritated about regarding how underused she is. She's got a cool power, cool design and I love her laid back surfer girl personality.

Tag was great IMO. I like that in the Hellions mini, he basically became the protege Kingmaker for that story because his greatest wish was simply to do right by his friends and help give them better lives. He was about as bro tier a character as you can get.

The only thing I liked about their X-Force run was Vanisher. I'm a fan of characters done like that and if it says anything, Mysterio was the one part of Ends of the Earth I liked for the same reason.

I don't know why they didn't kill him during HoM. The original writers were going to until they got dumped. He's ridiculously overpowered. He could have fixed most of the Marvel universe problems by now. They just ignore he exists so they can keep going on. House of M? Warren being retarded/ the metal wing shit? Could probably fix that. He could fix that. Fart cloud of death? Could fix that. Karma's missing leg? Easy. Wolverine dead? Not anymore.

i havent read the latest x men comics because fuck that but i belive elixir go down trying to help diying mutant from the fart cloud

>Let's not forget Warren Ellis acting like the fans claiming it was too gruesome followed up with this.
Ellis' Astonishing run really needs to be brought up more in discussion of shitty X-Men runs. Both Ghost Boxes and the one with the Bio-Sentinels are complete garbage and a blatant case of Ellis doing the book for a paycheck.

That was Alchemy. Elixir got killed by the Dark Riders in Bunn's Uncanny "Totally Not X-Force" X-Men but his powers kicked in and resurrected him a few arcs later and the trauma of it caused him to go mad and continuously resurrect and kill the Dark Riders in revenge. After coming down from going nuts he got sent off to Xorn's little monastery thing to help get control of himself and his powers.

Don't forget, Soule had this Siphon character kill Elixir right in front of X-23 and she didn't react at all...and then Bendis brought him back.

That story arc was retarded. Why the hell were Elixir, Karma, Random and Boom Boom hanging out with Masque of all people?

Do you think that's part of why they killed him?

Didn't Bendis just straight up forget/never know he was dead at all?

He did that with one of them anyway.

Bendis.
Dennis Hopeless admitted why he killed Mettle. He wanted a shock death to kick off the book, and wanted it to be either Hazmat or Mettle. He choose Mettle because he thought Hazmat had more value.

I don't understand what your point is. Gwen Stacy is still dead.
Clones and alternate universe versions don't count.

>Gwen Stacy is still dead.
Um...have you read the latest Spider-Man?

I still miss her and yes I know a trick was done that revived her for a fixed timespan with no possibility of doing it again.

The biggest example I can think of to showcase Hopeless' incompetence as a writer is Red Raven's death. The story you get after she fucks up her neck or whatever writes itself but apparently not if your name is Dennis Hopeless.

what character?

What sceneario? You know what I'll answer both so we don't have to play tag.

Anole was going to commit suicide early on.

Pic related is the stabbing. The pencils of this, which I've seen somewhere, have a blade sticking out of her chest.

You mean the one with the Gwen Stacy clone and all the other clones of dead spider-man characters as a tie in to the new clone saga storyline?
Yes, I've read that.

>Don't forget her corpse being destroyed.
If we're talking heroes who had hard lives and also fit the OP it's really hard to do any worse than Windfall. Her entire history is pretty much "yeah, suicide is probably the best option".

>Wendy had a very hard childhood, which lead to her being a reclusive person. She let people abuse her because of her childhood, causing her to be depressed for most of her life. She was good at heart, but committed crimes out of fear of her superiors. After she was raped and ignored, Windfall became angry and took this out on her assailants. The only person Wendy ever felt close to Halo, even among her own family. Her last day alive proved that she was a hero, as she sacrificed herself for the good of the team.

A constant life of abuse and depression followed by being gang raped, placed into the Suicide Squad after going to prison for killing her rapists and then dying a "hero's death" when she's reduced to a skeleton by Chemo.

Wallflower says hi.

The Anole suicide was that he was going to get outed as gay which would've fucked his life up and led to Hellion having to discover him. The intent was to do something analogous to the New Mutants story with Kitty and the kid who created light sculptures (since the writers were very much huge fans of the original series) but Marvel nixed it and said that kind of story wouldn't fly and the writers realized that was the correct call because it allowed Victor to become a good character on his own.

You know...everyone keeps complaining about comics now...but the 2000's really were a bleak fucking time in comics.

The entire ultimate universe

>>Pros of 2000 comics
>>Girls had bigger tits.
>>Cons of 2000 comics
>>They died more often.
>>Pros of 2010 comics
>>Girls don't die anymore
>>Cons of 2010 comics
>>They are Squirrel Girl tier

Monkey's Paw.

See that's the thing though. Aaron designed the most recent Quire to be this funny guy protagonist. A plucky trickster like Bart Simpson who rebelled against Wolverine's administration but was ultimately considered one of the academy's best and brightest.

I mean, compare and contrast that to Hellion and Surge. All three had the same basic premise, just executed a bit differently.

Julian was an egotistical bully who was on his way to becoming either an X-Man or the next Magneto. He was tutored by Emma and her prized student.

Surge, as the New X-Men pics on this thread show was also a piece of work. Volatile, emotional unstable and prone to violence, yet she was ultimately picked as leader, because Frost thought she'd protect her team.

The difference between Quire and those two is that Kyle and Yost let them have conflict and develop and not always in a 'good' way. Meanwhile, Aaron never really developed Quire into anything else. Quire still remained the same edgelord he was when he first started, the only difference being that Wolverine was his 'mentor' translation=Enabler. Currently Quire is a dumb character with none of the social commentary that Morrison originally gave him.

I actually found that was the best part of the run. It was quite the 'jolt' if you will. Originally Academy of X was, I won't say obvious, but you knew the good guys were going to win. Kyle and Yost, you read their stuff and then when the X-Men won, you celebrated because you saw how they struggled. After that though you realized that they just 'survived'. It wasn't a conclusion.

Every battle they had could decide the fate of their very species and as the newest generation of X-Men, they would either make or break the mutant race. It was dynamic never seen before and it was executed almost perfectly.

It's why if I ever work at Marvel, I'll try and write a book about these kids dealing with their issues and becoming... more

The early 2000s were pretty awful, and I think it says a lot that I never see discussion about the majority of stuff from that era.

Thing is, I get the whole dire thing was riveting, but look where it fucking got us in the X-Men books. The fucking Original 5 have taken up more of the teacher's attention than the actual kids. It made all the suffering of those kids worthless because fucking QQ came in and plopped his lawn chair on the graves of the dead kids and went "Man, wouldn't it be awesome if we gassed all the mutants?"

It's almost like 9/11 happened mixed with the leftover edginess of the 90's.

The rape and death only happened in the 2000s. The rest of it (abusive sister and whatnot) is from the original Outsiders series.

Surge is another "Hard Life" candidate even before she joined the Academy considering her father was so anti-mutant that he denied they even existed which caused her to run away from home and become a pill addict in order to help control her powers.

>Every battle they had could decide the fate of their very species and as the newest generation of X-Men, they would either make or break the mutant race.

Why though? They were supposed to be in SCHOOL. Why did abusing the young characters become such a thing in comics? Why does it create this situation where the adults are callous, ignorant, or are downright useless when it comes to their experience?

At least Runaways wrote the damn excuse into the book. Even then they still had some adults on their side.

Most of the school depowered and killed? Well let's just have them fight for supremacy that's reasonable, Emma. Someone shoots a rocket at a bus full of kids among a squad of sentinels and some of the most powerful mutants on the planet? Well guess there's nothing we can do about that. Students from all over the world go missing? Meh. Don't even know half of their names.

I understand people liking books with different tones and all but these kinds of things are what really bother me about Avengers Arena and Kyle and Yost. I would assume you could understand why a total tone shift would annoy people that liked the book before. I read darker books but they start and end that way.

Yeah, but to be fair that was mainly due to Aaron, Bendis, Lemire and Hopeless' stupidity. Kyle and Yost basically devolped those kids within the background of their events, while occasionally bringing them to the foreground which was a nice touch.

Aaron fucked all that up with Schism and AvX, turning an epic story about overcoming odds and enemies into his 'Wolverine is awesome, Cyclops is Lame' story. I mean that's what is really fucking saddening.

Although it had many bumps along the way, the overall Messiah Trilogy was brilliant. Gillan also helped to salvage it while Aaron was writing, but unfortunately it wasn't enough.

As for the O5, they are pretty much a symptom of everything wrong with current Marvel and in my opinion should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

As for Quire, if there was one thing I could do, it would be for one of the Academy of X kids to metaphorically curbstomp him, showing how weak he really was.

I did see it as a School book. It was a coming of age school book with LGBTQ theme to it. It was kids realizing that all those asshole who they saw on TV were real. It was about them fighting for their right to exist, to show the world they mattered, that they existed. I mean, one thing to remember at the time is how ultimately shit it was being gay in the 2000s. It was better than before, but it was still shit.

As for the school stuff, did we read the same book? Emma's New X-Men plan was one born of desperation. It was to ensure that the younger students weren't killed and had basic training. The whole massacre at Xavier's was also one of the events which impacted the rest of the comic, the Sentinels were loathed by nearly every one. The adults were horrified by what was going on, they'd never experienced anything like it and they were scared for their future and the future of their children and trying to ensure that no more lives were lost.

Not Sup Forums, but still one of my favorite characters of all time.

Black Goliath. I actually liked him. I thought his funeral was stupid.

I got a sense that comic writers really, really hated children. Look outside the big two and there was such a dislike in children.

The shittiest part of Arena was that they acted like people wanted to see teenage heroes get killed. And the ironic part is that they are pushing teenage heroes now, and they are fucking insufferable, but these ones are they wanted to push. Riri, this new Wasp, Moon Girl, all of this we're supposed to like, but the ones killed above we're supposed to cheer for their deaths. Absolute faggotry.

Man, that was such a fun comic. I like the part where Wallflower Meat Sentinel swats Emma Frost through a store window and Emma gets up from it less than pleased. Ellis nailed Emma Frost just right.

The problem is that Marvel has been taken over by fans who don't care about the material beyond the obvious A-List. They watched the 90's cartoon and got a boner for Wolverine. "What? All these other teen characters? Ugh, that would require me to READ comics. Fuck em', my favorites are better!"

You can see the conflicted tone with how Battle of the Atom ended. Wolverine tells Cyclops to fuck off in Aaron's ending, and then Bendis had Kitty join Cyclops for the final finger to Wolverine. It's so tedious.

I know and it pisses me off. I mean, growing up that 90s cartoon was good, but as I got involved in the insane beauty known as X-Men and Marvel comics I loved those awesome stories and characters even more than I ever enjoyed even the best 90s Cartoon episode.

Also, please tell me that I am not the only one who disliked the 90s Wolverine, that guy was a complete and utter creepy asshole

It is really annoying how everyone based their knowledge of X-Men off that cartoon. It's like how everyone thinks Aquaman just talks to fish cause of Justice Friends.

It seems that's what people like out of him. youtube.com/watch?v=aR0pREAUzaQ&t=1s Look at the comments.

>They watched the 90's cartoon and got a boner for Wolverine
That was the complete opposite reaction for me.

Wolverine's great, but I liked Gambit, Banshee, and Nightcrawler more.

When I read the comics, the characters I enjoyed the most were Cyclops, Storm, Sunspot and Magick. Mainly because of how they actually thought instead of blindly charging in.

Jesus. I mean, Wolverine is kind of a bad character at the moment. His whole thing of being an edgy loner with a dark mysterious past is so overdone and messes the initial point of his character so much that the projectile flies into the fucking sun. IMO he only really works as a supporting character or when he has someone to bounce off like Nightcrawler, Cyclops, Havok, Colossus and Storm or having a protegee who is horrified by his actions. Mainly because, they can serve as moral guidance and support rather than blindly agreeing with his decisions like the X-Men recently have been doing

That's actually a good point.

We've been getting a new wave of horrible OC characters, especially with the NuHumans, when Marvel has had such a great stable of young heroes for literal decades.

My only hope is that Ewing finally stops tickling my balls and finally writes a New Mutants book

>That's actually a good point.

One I brought up earlier in the thread as well.

Not know the inner workings of Marvel I will give them some benefit of the doubt as the blame can be laid on the readers a lot.

Runaways, New X-men, Avengers Academy, probably several I'm forgetting, they all didn't sell that well because readers won't go out of their favorites as much. That's why people probably saw replacing characters as the only way to get "diversity" noticed.

It's part of why I think it would be a great idea for Disney to foot the bill for a kid friendly MA type trade imprint with some of these newer characters. Give them to new readers. Sell them next to princesses in the Disney Store. Get them onto shelves in toy stores. Start em young. Don't make readers have to rely on Spider-Man or Superman for stability, knowing they'll never really go away. I think that's probably why a lot of the character replacements might piss people off subconsciously. These characters don't go away so watching them do just that is a little ..well... triggering. Even if you know it will go back eventually.

When I came into comics New Mutants v2 and Runaways were my Spider-man and Original 5 mutants. That's probably why it bothers me so much. Not that they ended, but they were so miss treated. Just being cancelled is understandable. Being tortured and mischaracterized after ward is just mean.

Oh that reminds me. Found out about this one recently.

Crusty?

...

context?

You're gif is way too small to see anything.

It's like it's a gif for ants or something.

When Xorneto fucked up shit ended up dying. Because of his powers he somehow got stuck a ghost and was trying to scare people into leaving the rebuilt school.

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I like how this is the first pic that comes up when you google search Wallflower

he was fucking useless and a whiner