Are there any comics that address this?

Are there any comics that address this?
Or at the very least any comics that get into geopolitics that aren't sophomoric wanting about the middle east and oil?

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TL;DR?

Kojima called the future

It's honestly really difficult to condense and is actually worth reading but basically he's talking about the galvanization of narrative truth into multiple truth tribes that incestuate and don't allow for evolution of thought in the modern age, and how the only way to combat it is through creating context for the preferred ideas to popularize, instead of outright censorship.

In other words, memes.

Multiple think tanks in real life attempt this but aside from the globalists it's not centralized.

Bump for interest.

Also for a more immediate example, it's basically saying that the fact that sjw people get all their information from their circlejerk online, and alt right people get their information from a completely different one, even though they get the same information, the filters mean these people never get the same truth.

This may not seem immediately harmful as much as annoying, but you're seeing now that half the country believes one narrative that trump will save everyone and the media is run by globalists, and the other half thinks nazis took over the white house, and both are absolutely convinced they're right and won't even try to talk things out because the truth is so self apparent.

Essentially what the op chsracter wants to do is use memes, and not LEL KEK shit, but like just propagated fake truths, to manipulate people into thinking a certain way that's more constructive.

The problem is that this was made around the time when the internet wasn't fully developed into what it is today and doesn't take into account that the context tribes, so to speak, can do counter measures to that if they catch on, and turn memes around against the intended operation. Hence, why pol basically turned the election around. Now everyone wants a piece of the action and think tanks with billions of dollars put into these psyop programs are realizing a bunch of bored people legitimately can outdo them.

In a way, we're beginning to learn that while collectivism can't function in real life, that online its the great equalizer when multiple collectivist communities compete for domunation.

Furthermore we are seeing an unprecedented amount of sheer awareness of both the structure and nature if a lot of nonfiction al narratives and a spin towards the absurdist to combat perceived crimes against truth.

We're not living in the post truth age as some people claim, but rather, we're living in the hyper narrative age, wherein metatextual and subtextual are merged into the esoteric as a direct response to perceived obfuscation of the truth. If they won't play nice, neither will the maligned, and so you get to a point where one narrative about overblown sensationalism isn't met with apathy, but with outright ugly sardonic mockery. And these narratives grow and grow into a lore of their own until a completely different reality forms around people, and no other form of thinking can exist.

It all boils down to the way people talk amongst themselves, the way they obfuscate the objective truth into the collective truth and regurgitate it to an unaware public that, through alienation, rejects it. But everyone is part of a kind of group like this on some level now, so what happens is everyone in society gets alienated by someone.

It's like the bolsheviks obfuscation of truth on steroids, and the only foreseeable ending to it is violence when the truths become so alien that they become seemingly predatory they already are.

A lot of people are going to die over the next few years.

Skynet is going to take over Wikipedia and institute an aggressive culling of pop culture articles.

>and is actually worth reading

it really isn't though

MGS2 is such a bizarre game.

I think Metal Gear Solid gets stupider every year

At some point there's going to be more history than we're going to be able to physically document, and the patriots are trying to stop that because the overload of information is going to collapse any further progress to humanity.

At least that's what I got out of it

I believe that's more an essay about social media more then geo-politics.

And you are very much in the wrong vein on entertainment if you are looking for a critique of Geo-politics. Try movies, Kubrik was rimming Neo-Realism before the academics were

It's not that there's more history, its that junk data is all people see, whilst actually important information is ignored.

Although its an extension to the idea of information control translating into political control. "Let the patriots think for you!", which went fucking swimmingly considering how MGS4 went

It only gets weird after they strip you naked.
But I admit the AI speech was a little too heavy for the audience. Or maybe it wasnt as heavy in the original.

Comics about grand conspiracies everyone knows about but are super secret?

Good fucking read.
Wish someone'd pull the plug on the internet already

But then I couldn't talk to my friends in America or vice versa.

Then again, I could write to them.

That would probably be more satisfying...

Bugger, he's right.

Are you suggesting this isn't sophomoric wanting?

>address this

Address what? Poorly written meaningless angst?

>he thinks meme's won it

Fucking cyber babies I swear to god. Trump winning really wasn't rocket science. Hell plenty of political operators predicted it, Hillary was a scandal ridden candidate riding of a controversial legacy, Trump was of the opposite party and energized his base. Simple numbers play it out- in the North-West DNC firewall, democrats stayed at home, Republicans went out to vote.

Your idea about truth narratives dissolves when you realize that like 80% of the American public don't use twitter. And the demographic that do are overwhelmingly under 30, the least likely to vote.

This really isn't a knew phenomena, infact its more a reversion to the typical American state of politics. Look at the what the founding fathers were peddling against eachother, Alexander Hamilton thought that Jefferson was going to gullition everyone, Jefferson thought Hamilton was a British agent. And they both legitimately believed these positions. All we have seen in the election is a shattering of the democratic consensus which FDR imposed and American politics has reverted to its natural, crazy state.

Also this. Its fluffy language but not much substance.

>Alexander Hamilton thought that Jefferson was going to gullition everyone, Jefferson thought Hamilton was a British agent.

Do you have more on this? I'd love to see the reasoning behind these views.

Sure, I stole that line of reasoning from Richard Bookhiser. Specifically, his apperence on Dan Snow's HH podcast, the one in which he talks about Trump in a historical context. It's up on Itunes, just put in 'Dan Snow- Trump', should be enough.

Thanks, really I was just curious if there was a book or a series about early US elections. I always love old political campaign stuff.

I remember my father telling me about how his father told him to cheer for Nixon on the Schoolbus because he didn't want a Catholic running things.

>Your idea about truth narratives dissolves when you realize that like 80% of the American public don't use twitter
Sure, if you want to pretend like twitter is the only place that promotes this sort of thinking. Fox News and alt-right radio accomplish the same goal.

>I remember my father telling me about how his father told him to cheer for Nixon on the Schoolbus because he didn't want a Catholic running things.

Fucking Kek. God American politics is so much fun.

Off the top of my head, De Tocqueville did early American democracy pretty well. Though that's a pretty dry text, if you want to hear more zaney shit about the Hamilton Jefferson hijinks, Ron Chernow's Hamilton biography is a pretty good read.

So, to rephrase what your saying in a bid to condense it. What we're seeing now is a popular backlash to the establishments attempts to control narrative through selective filtration of facts.

What the people in power never realized is that people who grow up on the internet become so good at filtering information that the media becomes something of a joke. Once that happens people begin to look for truth elsewhere.

This then mixes with the popular idea that things have been stagnating and that the government isn't interested in changing the system because it works well enough for the upper class.

These two situations together disconnect the voting base from the politicians. Essentially creating a power void that people like Trump, who confuse their opponents through sheer communicative chaos are able to fill.

There's a documentary called "Hypernormalization" that goes through the events dating back to the cold war that have led to our current situation and the fact that things are going to be very bleak very soon.

Trump's just a precursor for things to come.

Your idea was predicated on meme's as a diffusion of message control, though. What you just listed is a separate phenomenon, that's the atomisation of American society, its a pretty old sociology idea which is making a comeback after the election.

And honestly America has always been a collection of atomized socities with shared norms who are very different. All the internet did was mean they can say 'I am influenced by X!', which is a new way of recording an old trend.

>Sup Forums still thinks their dumb frog determined the presidency

It's the most unironic WE DID IT REDDIT I've ever seen.

>thinking memes mean Pepe and image macros

This.

All it really proves is how hilariously bad American journalism has gotten. Although don't forget that if you take anything here seriously, do it at your own risk.

>He takes meme theory seriously

This thing is actualy laughted at in academy and pretty niche.

Thanks

I'm not the first guy. But I'd argue that the atomisation of American society has been acceleration by the rise of the internet. The internet doesn't only mean that you can say "I am influenced by X", it's a way to easily surround yourself with people that confirm all of your biases along with "sources" that will help make those ideas legitimate in your mind. The atomisation becomes easier and easier when people have better access to communities that support any idea you can think of an more.

Memes are older than 4chins.org, user. I'm not talking about dumb internet pictures either, but the dictionary definition of memes. Ideas spread through word of mouth that gain traction in culture as a whole.

What? Memes absolutely exist in society, I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not him, but there is an effort to control narrative, and there has been since the Cold War.
The upper class imperative since that time was to maintain society in its current form while minimizing any risks to said societal system.

This election is essentially the failure of that idea. You're right that American politics are getting crazy and less centrist for the first time in a long time. But considering the fact that the standards of "Left wing radical" and "Right wing radical" are a lot more overblown than they were before FDR you'd be best served by observing with caution how events unfold.

Do you really think that meme theory is even close to be the most popular theory to analyse society and its fenomenon?

There are parts of meme theory that are garbage to be sure, but the use of the word Meme in its dictionary definition has been used correctly in this thread. We use vocabulary from theories even if they're partially disproven all the time, stop bending over backwards to try to seem smart.

...

What's with all the thinly-veiled Sup Forums shit today? Are the mods on vacation or something?

Seriously go away you fucking cretins

That's an idea worth looking into. But American politics has always been partisan as hell. The absolute worth thing the rise of the internet has probably done is narrow down the amount of people who publicly call themselves bi-partisan, think of blue dog democrats (if there are any of them left??. And you also have to remember that what people say, and what people do are very different things. Social media is as much what people do as much as it is what people want people to think they do, so its not exactly an air tight linkage between social media atomisation and other trends.

Eh, these kinds of statements really don't take into account American history that much. If what you just said was true, the Black civil rights movement would have been fucking crushed at the outset. That was 101 definition of subversion with the aim of changing the societal status quo. If a cabal had been implementing successful society control since the 50's, things like that wouldn't have happened.

Of course, I'm not denying there haven't been attempts, but really the alphabet agencies aren't gods.

I'm not making an argument for the illuminati and the idea wasn't there from the outset of the cold war. It was Kissenger's generation that really brain childed the whole idea.

Look up Hyper normalization it provides a pretty good argument for it.

>comics that get into geopolitics
I got exactly the thing for you.

>Also for a more immediate example, it's basically saying that the fact that sjw people get all their information from their circlejerk online, and alt right people get their information from a completely different one, even though they get the same information, the filters mean these people never get the same truth.
That is very true.

>Essentially what the op chsracter wants to do is use memes, and not LEL KEK shit, but like just propagated fake truths, to manipulate people into thinking a certain way that's more constructive.
This is what every society ever has done. This is why the word meme exists.

>google Hyper Normalization
>Adam curtis documentary is the first link

Why do you do this to me

Do what exactly? I know nothing of that man other than the fact that he made a documentary I agreed with.

The patriots were using the internet and news and generating the memes themselves in order to move the world toward a certain place.

Isn't part of the problem viewing the 'upper class' as a single hivemind? If anything, they've always been conniving to push their own political agendas or hijack one to tip the scales for them.

All this talk makes me think Hobbes was onto something with Leviathan. Certainly makes life easier.

youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg

>Cartoons ain't free. The board of Sup Forums gotta be littered with the blood of weaboos and popular culture. Politically HITLER incorrect aka "Sup Forums" is not my site culture, they are racists and probably manbabies as well :DD.FANDOMS and tumblr not story discussion and Sup Forums ok. praise Sugar.

I demand a drawing of this!

Adam Curtis is notorious for his documentaries which are wildly out of proportion with big statements but are actually very thin gruel when it comes down to proper conjecture.

I'm going to have to come back to you about hyper Normalization, I haven't found a good definition online.

This is one of the aspects about democracy's in decentralized systems I've always been interested in. America is such a huge place, with all these millions of people, but its got these gigantic federal bureaucracies answerable to no-one in a symbolic way. Of course they are in terms of Congress and subcommittees and the like, but its all so overbearing and distant that viewing the 'upper classes' as one thing with the interest of pushing your shit in. Its kind of like the EU in a way, which had the problem of a lack of Demos in its system- essentially, where are the Europeans? All I see are Germans, Greeks, British, etc, but no-one who calls themselves Europeans.

Hobbes would probably be glad that someone invented a sovereign which didn't invest itself in holy legitimacy, and that Stuarts are dead.

Ok. Its literally the same rapport and speaking mannerisms of the documentary I was talking about.To the point that either this curtis guy makes all of his documentaries nearly identical or Hypernormalization was the one the guy had in mind when making the parody.. But that being said, I'm not a slack jawed idiot. I still think his documentary raises some good points and is well argued.

Funny video all the same, it does seem to deconstruct his style of film making, though I have to wonder if he expects documentaries to be dry and music less because if thats the case they may as well be news articles.

>Hence, why pol basically turned the election around
>people actually believe this

Well, Alan Whicker was actually interesting to watch

youtube.com/watch?v=8uEB-Vs8m-8

Based user BTFOing Kojimadrone pseuds.

Thing is holy legitimacy was a thing brought about with Diocletian (at least in the west, divine monarchs were ten-a-penny in the east). It's always interesting to view the United States through the lens of Roman history I find. Both are essentially multi-national empires that despite their vast diversity still held a strong central common identity and leader, obviously it's not the best comparison. One however can't help be reminded of the current struggles going on today when reading about Caesar's popularity with the Plebs worrying the Senate, who while supposed to be this great defender of the people was invariably made up of wealthy elites.

>ITT

I think the problem with him, and other documentary makers of his style, is that they tend to get caught up in their own cleverness. They'll bring up a good question but very often provide a very dodgy answer.

There's also the fact that junk data will make it difficult to make people find valuable information.
As such, people will start choosing which information they want, instead of getting the actual truth, they'll get whatever truth they want, and this will lead to people believing different truths.
The Patriots want to eliminate all that junk data.

So, kill all entertainment and trivia?

Bomb TVTropes?

This is an interesting comparison. I used to think Americans comparing themselves to Rome were full of it, but there's one aspect about Late Republican politics which is actually quite interesting.

It was the patrician consensus that held that 'patricians do not, under any circumstances, publicly attack each-other. Any displays of class warfare are settled outside Roman power structures and away from the Plebs.' Caesar being a populist at first, then when he won the war against pompey returning to a patrician, then the first emperor Augustus acting as a mediator between the two.

Trump going completely awhal and going to town and breaking convention after Washington convention on every single thing, whilst appealing right to a core demographic, strikes me as a fairly Caesar mood. Hell even the cries of 'America is being disrespected!' could be verbatim what Caesar said when any foreigner did anything he didn't like.

The comparison really isn't very strong, but the 'breaking ranks to gain populist power' dynamic is interesting'.

This is the problem about documentaries, they can be interesting but that's about it. If they want to properly get off what they consider important ideas, then a visual medium isn't really the best way to start laying out a compelling argument.

No, the point of MGS2 was that they wanted to study if it was possible to manipulate humanity without direct contact, just by creating situations, and letting people face those situations on their own, which is what they mean by ''creating context''.
They wanted to see if, by doing that, they would still be able to control the outcome, and the events of MGS2 proved that they could.

They wouldn't go out and kill people, they would simply manipulate humanity into stopping people from generating junk data.
They would study which truths are valuable, and let humanity learn from those.

Have media, have entertainment, but only give you access to valuable information.

A Japanese man is jerking off into your face, and expecting you to lap up every last drip of his cum.

Will you let him do it, or will you cartwheel through a stream of piss repeatedly just to spite your bishie player character?

Not really.
Kojima himself said that he doesn't consider MGS2 anything special, just a game with a story interesting enough to make you want to keep playing it.
He simply said the story was based on current events, but with anime characters and giant robots sprinkled on top of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a Plato take on truth? The Patriots being the philosopher kings, able to see the "true" essence or in this case "value" of things, then dispensing these truths to those who are unable to value them?

I believe he did also mention that it failed him in a narrative sense, personally. So clearly he had expectations about the story.