So

So..

Which Borden was killed?

Did Caldwell die each night, or was he transported and the clone was killed?

>Which Borden was killed?
>Did Caldwell die each night, or was he transported and the clone was killed?
It doesn't matter whether they were the original or a clone or not.

Yeah

You're missing the point of the film.

Don't recall the first one, but Caldwell's sacrifice was that he'd do anything for his craft and he kept killing himself in the proces. Maybe there was an element of chance involved, but the clones definitely got to live at least until the next show

The Borden who didn't have the kid and there wasn't a clone/real Huge Act man both went in and both died/teleported

ScarJo was so hot in this

It seemed like Angry Borden, who fucked johansen, was the one who got hanged. To be fair, I could tell the difference between the two the entire movie except when it was the guy in the cage. As for THE GREAT DANTON, he cloned himself every performance, both sharing the same exact genetic makeup, having the same memories, and one of them died. The other one went on with his life. The fear of being the guy who makes it and the guy who drowns is valid because essentially the same person experiences both things.

The box didn't work.

It's like you missed the entire point.

So Lord Caldwell was murdering one of his triacontuplet bros?

apply yourself you tard

Borden didn't exist nor his brother. It was a way of portraying Caldwells subconscious

Awful movie, nolan a hack

The whole movie was actually a dream inside of Sir Michael Caine's head. He was a notorious diddler who was hanged by the townspeople, kind of like Freddy Krueger. He Jacob's Laddered the movie. In his head, he's telling his own story to the one little girl who was able to escape his raep dungeon and finger him as a child predator. You go through the movie thinking his totem is the birdcage but it's actually the red ball. Deep as fuck.

This is how the book ended so I’m not sure what Nolan was trying to do

Haven't heard this one before.
Any clues available to support this?

No. We never get to see how he did the trick, because Nolan had no intention of showing us. Why? Because the secret impresses no one.

There are two roads to "magic." There's technique and dedication, which is what Borden possessed. Then there's showmanship, which is what Angier possessed. The entire point is that showmanship can surpass technique given sufficient drive. Angier's obsession elevated his showmanship to the level where he could fool the man who was the technically more gifted magician.

nolan can't do plot twists

Is this a real opinion? Obviously TGD bested the actual magician because he could afford the best toys contemporary science had to offer. That was his tragedy: some rich kid attention whore who didn't have the skill but could instead buy it. Borden's tragedy was sacrificing his own life for his craft. Hollywood nepotism vs. dudes who sucked that producer cock to get ahead. Poetry.

???

so why did nolan remove the obvious real element of the machine working?

>So do I make one clone, hide him and do every show together which wouldn't be a problem since I have no earthly attatchments
>Or do I kill a clone each night and hide a hundred corpses which is significantly harder not to mention risk my life every single night just to avoid having a second me around which wouldn't make a difference whatsoever since I have no loved one, children or relatives whatsoever

"Contemporary science" doesn't allow for a quantum fax machine. A functional device presents the same problems in the film that it presents in the book, of which I view the plot of the film as the superior story between the two.

If Tesla were capable of building the device once, then his own life changes radically, because all his money troubles vanish. If the device works, then there's literally no reason for Angier to even continue to use it for anything more than a light show and just do his trick Borden's way.

The more logical explanation is that Angier used his mastery of showmanship to dress up one more brutal truth - that there is no magic to found, not even in science - and sell it to Borden who wants to be fooled.

Count the bodies. Tell me how many you see.

David Bowie told him to do it in a dream.

The closing line is "..you want to be fooled". Use the ol' potato peeler friend

If you don't know which Borden died you didn't watch the fucking movie.

>contemporary science doesn't allow for a quantum fax machine

>This form of literature or film is comprised of invented or imagined elements that do not exist in reality. user.
>What is fiction?

Borden was a clone

You are correct. It is fiction. But with all fiction there comes a certain degree of suspension of disbelief. You tell which which disbelief is easier to suspend:

>Tesla invents a device that can produce an exact copy of anything, living or not, for a famous magician, so blinded by his obsession that he can see no use for it beyond revenge. Meanwhile, the inventor goes on to die penniless and insane, never having recreated his device to alleviate his financial woes, and we here in the present never heard one peep about it until this story.

or

>A gifted showman, obsessed with revenge, concocts an elaborate but convincing tale to finally one-up his life-long nemesis.

Which feels heavier to you?

There is no indication in the movie that Tesla didn't go on to become a billionaire, it's a made up story
Anyway your interpretation makes a lot more sense than the actual movie, but seeing how the script isn't exactly that subtle regarding everything else I'm going to say you thought about this more and better than the writers did

By that logic, Inglourious Basterds wasn't actually about the Basterds killing Hitler, Goebbels, and the high command in a movie theater. Those were all doubles, hired doppelgangers to take the heat off the real HNICs who were busy plotting oven stuff at the Wolf's Lair. Since we all know Hitler and Goebbels actually died in a bunker in Berlin.

You're right, but I also think Inglorious Basterds is a lazy fucking story. Not a bad film, but a lazy fucking story.

Except the theory fits with The Prestige's themes ("are you watching closely" "they aren't really looking [for the secret, since they want to believe]") and not at all with Basterds'.

> Hitler and Goebbels actually died in a bunker in Berlin.

u sure m8?

ScarJo was in it? I have zero memory of that.

>trusting your clone not to kill you and take your place
Congrats, you're not as paranoid or greedy as Angiers was VERY CLEARLY shown to be.

They both were Borden, you stupid brainlet. They took turns to be Borden, while the other was Fallon, they both were both Borden and Fallon at different times.
The one who survived was the one who loved ScarJo, the one they executed was the one with the family. Basically the girl remained with her uncle.

why do people keep seeing Hugh Jackman as the villain in the movie? He only wanted revenge for his dead wife, that makes him a tragic protagonist if anything

>Christian Bale didn't kill his wife

then why didn't he say so? It's been a few years since I saw the movie so sorry if this is explained somewhere

You are a god damn idiot if you think the one with the child and loved Sarah died. Notice the last things they said to each other. The Borden in jail literally tells Fallon that he is sorry about Sarah and that he did not mean to hurt her because she KNEW he was not the man she loved. He was the single reason she killed herself because she could not stand living with a different man who did not love her every other day.

Also, it was clear Jackman cloned himself each night, he killed 100 Jackmans. The hats they found in the forest and the clone he kills when he first steps into the machine make it pretty clear. It was a cloning machine.

Ohshit, yeah, you’re right, it’s being a couple of years since i last saw it. The one who died was the one who loved ScarJo, the girl remained with her dad.

The point is they were both practically the same persona, as they took turns.

this goy gets it.

in every Nolan film, the entire film is just a dream...or is it.

He was actually the best character for me, and I don’t see him as a villain but a tragic figure. He was ready to kill himself every night just for the amazement and entertainment of his audience. A true artist.
He was great, Bordens were just cucks controlled by pussy.

They lived the same life but still had different personalities just based on their love lives. It is still a better end for the child since her true father was the one who survived. Even if she was not biologically hers (I don't know if the Borden that loved ScarJo would bed Sarah even for pretense if she could already tell he did not love her), the one that loved Sarah would still treat her as his actual daughter.

If he was ready to kill himself every night for the sake of the profession, he would have continued the act and lived as a magician rather than literally set up the entire thing to get back at Borden and immediately retire to be his family's heir. His comment to Borden before he dies is just a last ditch effort to one up Borden.

The last time I watched it I couldn't help but feel like Borden's wife was a garbage mother being that she killed herself and abandoned her child just because "my husband doesn't love me sometimes". Drink some more laudanum, hon.

Prime and the best outfits

thats something that bothered me too, even if her husband weirded her out she still had a daughter who loved her unconditionally.

heck there are thousands of women who live with men who actually hate them, just for the sake of their child

maybe it's Nolan not knowing how humans work again

At the end you could see the most he cared about was ‘the look on their faces...’. His hatred towards Bale was fuelled by his wife’s loss, yes, bit also because he was the only one capable of amaze the people more than he did (with a not songreat secret, literally just a twin).
He wanted revenge but at the same time he was an artist.

den who was phone?

His daughter didn't magically come into the world without a father.

I feel like it'd be pretty easy to go insane just from noticing small details that keep changing in your loved one, without them ever letting on that anything's different.

The first Angier clone literally tries to kill him. Instantly.

Borden invented gaslighting

Angier's first instinct when trying out the machine was to ready himself with a gun. He came prepared to kill his clone, and so of course his clone was also ready to kill, because they're the exact same person. It's the perfect demonstration of what kind of a man Angier is.

If he'd just been the kind of person who thinks about fucking their own clone then he wouldn't have trapped himself with the elaborate death-traps.

thats because clone had the same mibdset as the original

if he wasn't willing to kill the clone if the machine worked, then the resulting clone wouldn't want to kill him either, since they're exact replicas with the same thought process

Why have the boxes at all then?
I'm honestly not getting the narrative you're trying to represent.

It reminded me of the cheating whore episode of Harvey Birdman, whenever a shurnken Reducto's first instinct upon seeing a newly shrunken Abraham Lincoln telegram delivery guy was to fight him with a toothpick.

I dunno if ScarJo loved the daddy Borden

/thread

>there's people who actually believe that Angier thought he was sacrificing himself every night for the sake of the act

Because he knew Borden's curiosity would get the better of him. Angier knew that not being able to figure it out would drive Borden nuts. The boxes were all part of the trick, the windowdressing that convinced Borden of the reality of the machine.

Borden left without looking in them, and denied Angier his final twist of the knife. Angier died having never seen the look on Borden's face when he discovered that in spite of it all, Angier's obsession drove him to become the better magician, having created and mastered a trick he would take to his grave.

Holy fuck, good post user

Stop samefagging to praise your shitty headcanon that goes against what we're shown in the movie.

Imagine being this autistic

>Which Borden was killed?
The father of the girl.
>Did Caldwell die each night, or was he transported and the clone was killed?
Open to interpretation, that's why it's so spooky even for him, he doesn't know. He even fucking tells you that.

I don't understand what the fuck you're trying to say. Haven't seen the movie in some time. There was no magical trick to it, he was simply cloning himself, whether he was also transporting himself or not is open to interpretation, am I missing something?

Yes. The very real possibility fhat the machine was simply a stage prop. We only "see" it working through Angier's journal, a journal written by Angier with every intention of having Borden read it.

Tesla married a pigeon irl his actions meet that standard.

So you're saying that Angier had a double the entire time for the final trick, presumably the constantly drunk one that was impossible to work with, and that this double was part of the final act of the movie with zero explanation or even hint at his existence?

Except, if I remember correctly, there's only a hint to how the machine works in the journal, there's no actual description, that's why Borden feels the need to check it in person. Angier's only objective was to attract Borden, he didn't care about fooling him about the trick, he wanted revenge, he's a shitty magician, that's one of the points of the movie. It's like a parallel between Tesla and Edison. Tesla is the genius who invents shit but is unable to convert it into success, Edison is the evil motherfucker who turns someone else's effort into his success. Angiers literally takes advantage of Tesla's work lol. BUT! In the movie the evil motherfucker gets his comeuppance because he couldn't predict the genius, unlike in real life.

Also everything we see in the movie points to the confirmation of the machine working as a cloning device, the movie fucking ends with the fucking hats for fucks sake. It's like you want to be in denial about in-movie information to keep pushing your interpretation.

The Bordn who got to be married and had a child is the one who survives, the Borden who loved th magic more and fucked ScarJo was the one that got killed, he even says he is sorry for the death of his brother's wife.

The point f Danton of not knowing if he was gonna be the man on the other side or the man drowned was the sacrifce and terrible fear he was enduring every time he made his trick.

It was showing the extremes both men went to for their craft. Literally killing yourself every night for the theater of it all.

Even living two half lives.

because the brother he was asking is not the one that tied the knot, and to his knowledge, the right know was tied, but other brother was prone to doing impuslive things like risky knots during the show. So he went with the 'standard' line and Caldwell could tell he seemed less confident in what he was saying. So he misconstrued his ignorance as lying.