Was she a Mary Sue?

Was she a Mary Sue?

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Literally every single major character in ATLA was to some extent. It's one of the major writing issues in that series.

Still beats LOK by a country mile though

Mary Sue is a meaningless term, so sure.

>Had to be talked down by Zuko
>Had to admit she was mean to Toph

No.

A mary sue is defined by other characters having unrealistic double standards towards the character in question, and contrived situations retroactively justifying the character's actions.

Thanks, prof.

Nah, she had some pretty severe flaws, and even though she developed as a character, she wasn't perfect by the end either.

Or rather, she had some pretty severe flaws that were not excused by the narrative and that she had to confront unlike another Bryke female lead I could mention

I don't think so? I mean, she was at times annoyingly perfect, and even her flaws weren't flaws that made her less "cool". But her impact in the story was negligible compared with her companions, the positive characteristics of other characters greatly outshined her on a regular basis, and both of those things seemed to be done purposefully.

The meaning of "mary-sue" is kind of undefined and polluted, but she doesn't truly feel like one to me. I suppose she would have been if she'd occupied a different place in the show.

"you didn't love her like I did"

But that's presented as a major character flaw.

Less of a mary sue than Korra.

A Mary Sue would be considered fun by the rest of characters even if she wasn't funny to the audience.

eh. she kinda started off as a shitty waterbender. if she were a mary sue, her progression as a waterbender would have been more like aang's was

But Korra was constantly getting shat on.

Given that she actually learned faster than the AVATAR himself... uh, no, that's exactly what you'd expect from a Mary Sue.

If you cherry pick certain episodes, especially in the first season, where she is essentially the gang's mom, then you can make her look like one, but she was really not even close to being a Mary Sue if you look at her character as a whole. For example in season 1, the pirate episode is essentially about her jealousy that Aang is a better water-bender than she is. She even goes as far as to put the group in danger by stealing a scroll from the pirates, and has to admit that mistake after it nearly gets them all killed. The fact is she is used to being the mature/competent one, and time and time again when she is put in scenarios where she is made the fool or treated like a child she quickly becomes rash and short-tempered.

"Getting shat on" != character development
Too bad Bryke missed that

>This

Really, the 'closest' to a Mary Sue I can figure in ATLA is fucking Sokka and Toph.

Sokka is comic relief, but he does come through as a force of his own towards the end. I cannot recall any major issues he personally had. I don't recall any majore character flaws he overcame. He was an unchanging character that seemed to have flaws for the sole purpose of being comedy. Due to that, that leans him towards "Mary Sue"

Toph
>Closest to the perfect example of a Mary Sue. Having a major weakness yet is not hampered by it at all. "I'm blind, but that's okay I can see!" Though this is also easily fixed by the one episode where everyone in the Earth Kingdom is doing their own thing, and she gets fucked over due to her blindness. There was also her feet getting burnt, actually causing her severe issues.

She's more of a Lisa Simpson character.

It's Korra that's the Rey of Avatar

I mean, in the first season there is a whole episode where she gets angry about Aang learning how to waterbend faster than she did (same one I talk about here ) As the series goes on, though, Aang has to split his attention between mastering 3 different elements while still maintaining his skill in the fourth, all in the span of a year. Katara meanwhile just studies one element, and even then in all the scenarios where she is up against more experianced water benders she gets her ass kicked. And while on a technical level Aang isn't really as good as her, in terms of raw power he is clearly way beyond her level due to his status as the Avatar.

not when she was forced to blood bend

But Korra constantly loses

Sigh... that's not the case at all. Like, at all.

Aang only started learning Earth AFTER Katara was deemed a master (in the Book 2 premiere). The only time he'd tried either of the other elements by then was that one early firebending episode.

It's just poor writing, but then no show is perfect.

Korra gets fucked up all the time. She's not a mary sue, just a garbage character.

True, I forgot about the first episode of season 2. Still, by the time this happens she has had some character development, and its not too much of a big deal because her skills as a bender don't overstep Aang too much (as far as I remember, by the end of the series while he still struggled with earth and fire he basically had water mastered).

This guy gets it
She was overbearing and self-righteous while not being nearly as wise as she thought she was for much of the series, and the other characters were completely aware of it.

>other characters were completely aware of it
Did we watch the same show user?

>Short
>Concise
>Spot-on

I don't give one single fuck post r34

But then she always wins in the end via some asspull that doesn't require her to actually confront and try to fix her flaws.

>I didn't watch the show, I only read what spergs on Sup Forums told me.

Name one character flaw Korra overcame

She used to be straight.

...

>I cannot recall any major issues he personally had. I don't recall any majore character flaws he overcame.
He was sexist in the first two episodes and then he got his ass beat by Suki and realized grils can be strong independent womyn that dont need no men
His girlfriend became the moon and it effected his relationship with Suki later but he learned to let go of Yue
He went through that phase where he thought he was useless and became good at swordfighting
He killed Combustion Man
He realized he needed to stop trying to be his dad and follow his own path
Honestly Sokka was a pretty good character.
Still not as good as Zuko though

Also reminder that Varrick is the best character in the avatar universe

Varrick is a reddit character.

This is a reddit post

>varick over Iroh

Fuck I forgot about all that.

Nevermind!


Shit tier taste though, picking Varrick over Iroh

Nah in ATLA the Mary Sue was
no one
In the Korra the Mary Sue was Suiyin, I mean its in the fucking name.

Iroh is shit

No but seriously Iroh is fantastic and all but Varrick's villainous chairspin makes me smile every time and Iroh just constantly reminds me that Mako is kill

You mean how like Korra was introduced as an earth/fire/water vender instantly at five years old with no prior training?

Really? I guess that's fair enough. Personally it actually makes me feel better. Knowing that someones passing was felt so keenly by so many and their work is remembered so fondly even now I find quite heartwarming, which somehow makes Iroh better for me.

No, she was just talented. She wasn't unstoppable and had plenty of real character flaws.

No. No, that's dumb.

Was she a do no wrong author insert? No? Then no she wasn't.

This, but the character also has to be a blatant author insert. A Mary Sue is a power fantasy, where the author mouthpiece is always right, is perfect in every way and can never ever fail, except when the failure will lead to greater success in the future. If and when they have a "flaw", they usually quickly write in some way to make it an advantage, or make it so negligible that it might as well not exist, or outright forget about it when it becomes inconvenient.

No.

I mean, didn't she have to learn to deal with being humbled while teaching Aang waterbending?

Only the first time before officially becoming his teacher. They're both powerful benders and fast learners, but only Gyatso knew how to motivate Aang properly while Katara didn't need any.

Gonna post some Kataras.

man I miss ATLA era Sup Forums

Huh, I never noticed how much her face changed over the series.

Katara is not particularly exciting character. Her greatest problem is that she often holds Team Avatar back from its primary mission of stopping the Fire Nation for her own selfish (disguised as selfless) reasons. Disgusted by the chauvinist culture of the Northern Water Tribe? Let's risk the Avatar's chance at learning a critical ability by throwing a hissy fit. Impoverished community is starving? Fuck planning for the eclipse that is coming within a month, I gotta dress up as a ghost & clean up a lake.

>tfw wasn't around to partake in those threads
Feels bad man

Katara a cute
CUTE

Yes

>Being an outstanding cunt on SEVERAL occasions
>Other characters not expecting better of her OR ignoring her "because she doesn't know better"
>Treated more like a prize than a warrior, which she was on several occasions, but still somehow was not expected to be better
If anything, this is kind of anti-mary sure. Ignore a character for being bitchy, give literally the next girl on the team better character moments.

He said aware of it; he didn't say they tried to change her. "Katara is being a self-righteous bitch again."
>"Oh, okay. Guess we're doing this for about two days... Wanna go gamble?"
"Yeah!"

She's an AIDS bender.

>Katara's boobs got bigger as the months went by
Nice.

Same. I would just write it off as "increase in budget", but there are some noticeable intentional changes as well.

>Varrick's villainous chairspin

Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite scenes in LoK

somehow varrick managed to be great despite debuting in the absolute worst season

...

Has Sup Forums a different definition of "Mary Sue"?
>"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities."
>"An implausibly flawless character and/or an idealized stand-in for the author."
According to these two definitions no major characters is a Mary Sue.

...

...

Insufferably so.

best outfit?
i say season 2

Season 1

Season 3.

You know, it feels like in recent times people toss around the term Mary Sue like a goddamn hackey sack. I get these phrases adapt ovet time, but let's not lsr the sense of the meaning here.

We all know where Mary Sue comes from right? The Star Trek fanfic. Where Mary Sue did everything perfectly. EVERYTHING. Everyone loved her or was even in love with her. So you could say the Mary Sue is the author's favorite character, because nothing they do seems to have any consequence.

Now let's look at Katara. Bitch made many mistakes. She even put the gang's life in danger because of pirates. She did not always have the right answer to solve anyone's problems. But she was nice, and also works to redeem herself. Just because she didn't put on the fucking symbiote suit and shit on people's heads from the empire state doesn't make her flawless, much less a Mary Sue.

So no. No she wasn't.

Not every annoying cunt is a mary sue.

>would have be funnier if it said "never saw"

She had character flaws. She sucked at bending. She was jealous of Aang's abilities. She would lie to to save face. She learned lessons in the show and was developed over time. She was not a marry sue.

Aang:
- people constantly point out his bullshit
- gets BTFO every now and then
- tries to surprass his limitations and find creative solutions

Katara
- bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
- shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her

Toph
- has clear limitations and weaknesses
- can easily be defeated by exploiting her lack of vision
- people call on her shit when she fucks up

Azula
- crazy

Zuko/Sokka/others
- kek

Not exactly.

Korra was flawed but when she became lesbian it was like a way to make her inmune to critics. Asami could be the Mary Sue.

Early Drill Sgt. Toph could also be the Mary Sue.

Sokka had to grow up. He realized over the course of the series that being a dumb fucking kid who just wants to fight is retarded, and that thinking things through and leading people properly is more important than being a great warrior yourself.

Korra isn't even closely a Mary Sue.

youtube.com/watch?v=ErmZRsCIUsE I still cry every fucking time I watch this shit. It is so god damn emotional and makes you understand why he needs zuko so badly. I love Iroh and will always see him as my favorite character in AtLA

10,000 hours in MS Paint

>people constantly point out his bullshit
what am I reading
>gets BTFO every now and then
doesn't change Mary Sue status
>tries to surpass his limitations and find creative solutions
not even related to Mary Sue status

>bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
WHAT AM I FUCKING READING
>shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her
see previous

>has clear limitations and weaknesses
very few, and one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
>can easily be defeated by exploiting her lack of vision
>easily
>people call on her shit when she fucks up
like when, man? WHEN?

>crazy
again, no bearing whatsoever on Mary Sueness

>Zuko
has a single "training session" with the dragons
suddenly better than Azula herself

>Sokka
has girls falling into his lap all the time
I mean, he's probably the least Sueish of them when you think about it, but still

>kek
you funny man, real funny

I'm sadder about Mako himself dying.

>i don't have an argument for any of it so i'll just say no
epic argumentative skills brah

Who?

You dismissed essentially every part of the post with "what am i reading" or "not mary sue".
You're a fucking lazy shit.

Iroh's original VA, the guy they dedicated Iroh's segment of the episode to.
He's also the reason why Mako from Korra is named Mako.

Oh, I thought you meant the character from Korra and I decided to make a joke... Ya, when his voice actor died I was pretty sad too. The new guy couldn't pull it off as well.

>The new guy couldn't pull it off as well.
I think he did a fantastic job, all things considered, but it's hard to compare to someone with such a large amount of experience in the field.

Speaking of Mako, any chance you've watched any of the new Samurai Jack?
How's the new VA for Aku?

OK then, as you want:
>people constantly point out his bullshit
examples needed

>bending is literally the only thing she has going on for her, and she is not even good at that
SHE LITERALLY BECOMES A WATERBENDING MASTER BEFORE THE AVATAR HIMSELF DOES

>shit personality, shit decisions, no one likes her
We're talking in-universe here, nobody in-universe thinks she has a "shit personality", and almost never calls her out on "shit decisions" (other than in that otherwise terrible episode "The Painted Lady"), and "no one likes her" is literally disproven by KatAang alone

now I expect detailed responses to both this and my previous post, or you're a hypocrite

I like you didn't bother with everything from the older post, just a few you thought you'd get away with.

By the by, not even the guy you were "arguing" with. I'm just sick of seeing slack cunts going "no u" like it's a solid argument. Props for the little effort you eventually put in, though.

I only took up the points that I DIDN'T ALREADY ADDRESS, nice try weaseling your way out of the argument tho

No, you really didn't, especially seeing as how you have no grasp on what a Mary Sue actually is.

All caps doesn't make you seem smarter.
Still not the original guy.

You have a weird way of pointing out character flaws.

All the characters are mary sues because they overcome impossible challenges which no one that age would even think of, or anyone at any age.
>Sometimes I forget what a powerful bender that kid is.
Sadly Aang is very uneducated in most of the bending arts, to the point that instead of facing the fire lord on time, they all decided to postpone it.

I'm using the common definition that's used here and on TVT, not whatever definition you dug up on Urban Dictionary or wherever.

All caps doesn't make me seem smarter, but it does make me seem like I'm yelling at you, which is exactly what this level of stupidity gets.

Also, if you think I believe you aren't the other user...

>TVT
Confirmed retard.
Thanks for playing.

Only in the begining, but she turned into one of the iconic party members. Do you not remember when she was fighting for the last time and she went into ice, and moved through the ice by once again water bending.

Korra doesn't even like water bending. She straight up uses fire bending at the very begining. And she hardly uses water bending afterwords.

And she didn't turn insta-lesbian after having boy problems.

>what am I reading
- stop slacking off and go master the avatar state, you dingus
- grow the fuck up, there is a war going on
- no man, your people are just dead

>doesn't change Mary Sue status
yes, it does

>not even related to Mary Sue status
explain your concept of mary sue

>WHAT AM I FUCKING READING
even after becoming a """master" she got BTFO every now and then, winning sometimes out of convenience or against the element she is strong against.

>see previous
It's not like everyone thought she was boring, right? it's not like they even had an episode for that.

>very few, and one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
first of, being blind is a very big limitation that is brought even on the last season; remember when Zuko burns her feet? she can be easily dealt with by anyone that prepared beforehand to deal with her. Also, it wasn't 'thrown away' in the finale; she only did something because Sokka was with her giving directions.

>like when, man
The Chase episode, she literally wants out because of that. The Appa thing as well. The cheating episode.

>again, no bearing whatsoever on Mary Sueness
crazy people cannot be mary sue, user. They can barely think straight. Sufice to say that she got abandoned by everyone. A mary sue's trait is to be well-liked by everyone.

>better than Azula herself
because of that fight he lost? also, are you REALLY saying Zuko is a mary sue?
Zuko? seriously, explain.

>Sokka is mary sue
yeah, you don't know what that word means.

>All the characters are mary sues because they overcome impossible challenges which no one that age would even think of, or anyone at any age
1- that would imply 'genius' type characters are mary sue, which is not true
2- most people on that world don't have a master; and it is literally said that they let anyone join the fire nation army. Even being kids, having a master means they can easily beat grown ups without training. When they did came against people with training, most of the time they lost, or had a hard time (like the dai li, where they actually lost).
3- they never "overcame impossible challenges". Actually, they LOST when things got impossible (day of the black Sun; crossroads; Aang losing to the archers, etc). The only reason they even won the last fight was because Ozai wanted to 1v1 the Avatar instead of sending his army, and because Toph invented metalbending.

How can a Mary Sue get BTFO?

Crazy people can absolutely be Mary Sues, read any creepypasta ever and you'll know that for a fact.

>one of which is randomly thrown away in the finale with no payoff whatsoever
This was obviously referring to the sandbending.