LOTR General: Discuss favorite scenes, characters, plot points, improvements if possible, relation to books, PHILOSOPHY, meaning, anything you like related to the greatest trilogy ever created.
What is the archetypal meaning of gollum? The duality of man - vice and virtue? Frodo gets to Mt. Doom but can't bring himself to cast away the ring, it is only gollums desire and obsession that allows the ring to finally be destroyed. Could JRR have been talking about how greed will burn itself out? What might have happened to Frodo if Sam had killed gollum? Is there a role for evil to play in goodness? Are they inseparable? Are they false categories to begin with and only different intensities of grey? Did Gollum win? He gets the ring... and in his astonishment and satisfaction falls into the lava. Might this be a comment on materalism in general?
Hmm i don't know! something something creator and properties of the ring. maybe it has something to do with the soul, perhaps a piece of sauron was already in the shadow realm and it didn't affect him like that. what do you think?
Aaron Howard
The Ring only amplifies your inherent power. Hobbits are small and rely on stealth, so they become invisible. Since Sauron is a demigod obsessed with power, it makes him insanely more powerful.
Levi Ross
or make them super brew-masters
Gavin Myers
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John Torres
so if all I want in life is to have a qt loving gf and be a millionaire, would i become Chad if I wear the ring?
Owen Kelly
No fuck off with this bullshit.
Remember how, when Frodo put on the ring, he was sucked into some sort of shadow dimension or whatever? And, while invisible, he was able to see things that were not visible to mortal eyes? That sort of shadowy, spiritual realm is where Sauron, as a spirit, dwells by default. He "wears" whatever body he creates for himself.
Frodo wasn't able to use the ring for much. For instance he had no telepathic link to the other ring bearers. Galadriel told him that if he tried to make one he'd lose his mind. If he were capable of mastery over the ring Frodo may have been able to stay visible.
Charles Nelson
You would probably be more charismatic in general. It would be up to you to get wealth and a gf.
Daniel Edwards
Sauron lived in the shadow realm permanently. Ages beforehand, he convinced a bunch of men to sail out to the immortal lands (where the elves go) so they could claim immortality and overpower the valar or some other such thing. For some reason sauron actually thought this would work so he went too and when the men all got BTFO saurons physical body got destroyed too. After this when he took physical form (with assistance from the ring) he looked real ugly and couldnt use his charm to manipulate people and had to do it by force.
John Sullivan
>For some reason sauron actually thought this would work
The Numenorians at the height of their power were full steampunk with metal steamships and zeppelins and guns. The Elves living in Valinor had been babysat by the gods their entire lives, they couldn't fight, they'd never fought anything. If God hadn't personally intervened Valinor would have been fucked.
Tom Bombadil wasn't a spirit so that makes it more difficult. I guess if you have power over the ring you can choose what it does to you. Invisibility is only one of its effects. Why Sauron didn't use it for that purpose seems like a bit of a plothole though (at least in the film).
Joseph Hall
In the film we only see Sauron with the ring when he's on the battlefield, and why would a general of an army want to be invisible to his troops? Not to mention the fact that elves and men used to shit their pants out of fear when they saw him.
Liam Phillips
Threadly reminder that Game Of Thrones is better than this Tolkien schlock.
Samuel Martin
Wanting to live in the Shire is for plebs. True patricians want to live in Minas Tirith.
Xavier Bailey
better how? I certainly dont think the score is better
It's just more nuanced. Has more depth to it. A Song of Ice and Fire is just so much more than "good vs evil" Star Wars crap.
Aiden Wright
I agree it is more sophisticated but there is a distinct beauty to the lotr trilogy but that's my subjective stance. season 7 felt pretty rushed but otherwise it is phenomenal
Sebastian Rogers
This is the "I only play m rated games for mature gamers such as myself" of Sup Forums. Kill yourself you insufferable faggot. Moral ambiguity might make you feel all grown up but if you think that's all there is to storytelling you're even more vapid and shallow than you sound.
Chase Brown
>more sophisticated
Yeah that whole paragraph about Danny having diarreha is the very essence of mature sophistication.
Why don't you faggots just leave it at "it's more realistic" because in real life every other person is a murdering psycopath too
Sebastian Ramirez
GRRM wrote a few shitty books of morally grey "intricate" characters just to build up to a giant good vs evil fight with the dead vs everyone else
GRRM is a hack, the show is average at best, and that fat bastard wishes he could write and/or worldbuild half as good as tolkien
Nicholas Cruz
Maybe better than the Hobbit
Brody Smith
Why didnt the ring grow big enough to roll it's way back to mordor? If anyone tries to catch it just shrink down until it can't be seen
Chase Sullivan
the multidimensional characters are more sophisticated
Juan Walker
Well at least Martin will finish his books
Samuel Myers
>
Lucas Foster
Incoming correct opinion. >1>2>3>>>>>H1>H2>implying I watched the third Hobbit after the first two abominations
Leo Gomez
this
Colton Robinson
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Tyler Wright
Don't fucking give me this shit if you can't make any distinction between Peter Jackson and JRR Tolkien.
The hobbits are the only real characters in LotR. The entire story is told from a limited omniscient perspective - theirs. They guide the reader through the story.
Everyone else is distant and myth-like because they're legendary heroes. You aren't supposed to identify with them. LotR was never a story about Aragorn or Gandalf and if you'd read so much as two pages of the fucking book you'd know that.
Christian Stewart
what
Lincoln Nelson
Never said that. He said that certain things in the narrative should remain a mystery. You're wrong. You don't know as much as you think you do. You are not the one true fan of Tolkien. He would burn all of his works then charge the German trenches single-handedly armed only with his fists to die in a hail of machine gunfire if he had known someone like you would one day disgrace his works. Sad.
Lucas Richardson
>The hobbits are the only real characters in LotR This is some hot nonsense
>limited omniscient Also learn to use words dude
Jack Perez
>Never said that.
It's in his letters. Eru is not manifest anywhere in Arda. He's separate.
Alexander Nguyen
I read the hobbit but I haven't got past bilbo's birthday party. I was saying GOT characters have more complexity - moral ambiguity and self doubt than the characters found in jacksons lotr. so what are you saying? are the hobbits pretty deep in the books?
Isaac Baker
>This is some hot nonsense
You haven't read the fucking book so you wouldn't know either way, faggot.
And "limited omniscient" is the correct term. If you actually did any reading you might be more familiar with how authors tell tell their stories, what perspectives they use, and the literary terms used to classify those perspectives.
Justin Williams
i only read the hobbit and it was 3rd person limited not limited omniscient, you don't get to read into peoples minds only bilbo's
Liam Long
why are you getting so up in arms over this stuff?
Ethan Williams
>You haven't read the fucking book so you wouldn't know either way, faggot. >>projecting Yes I have.
>And "limited omniscient" is the correct term. If you actually did any reading you might be more familiar with how authors tell tell their stories, what perspectives they use, and the literary terms used to classify those perspectives. >>>>>>projecting I have a degree in literature from a global top-5 university. Limited and omniscient are two separate and contradictory terms used to describe narrators.
Jason Thomas
Since this is a contrarian board: I know I'm weird, but I really like the Hobbit prequel movies. They're not nearly as well made and they have a lot of stupid cartoony stuff in them. But I felt the stuff they added to stretch out the story wasn't as bad as it could have been and a lot of it was just light-hearted fun. And overall I felt they built tension better than the LOTR movies because the bad guys tended to get more wins. They really should have just made it two movies or one 4 hour movie and not been greedy, however. Not saying they are great movies, but they're not Star Wars Prequel bad.
Christian Torres
I'm a massive slut for bad guy scenes. In Star Wars, that was the first reveal of the Executor. In LOTR, Minas Morgul is one of my favourite sequences.
Because I know this is Sup Forums - television and film but Tolkien is the one being criticized here for his characters, not the way Peter Jackson portrayed them. The Lord of the Rings is a story about four Hobbits who are swept into pivotal roles in a much larger conflict. It's their story. It's told from their viewpoints.
Peter Jackson made LotR into an action film so he shifted focus away from the Hobbits and onto the other characters. And to sound smart these fuckasses drone on about how they can't identify with Aragorn or Legolas and that's the fucking point. You don't read about Heracles or Achilles expecting to see a character you can identify with.
Blake Fisher
why didn't the ring save gollum when he fell into the lava, what a shit ring
Mason Cooper
so if you watch game of thrones you probably liked this one too ya
No, you haven't because if you had you'd know that the story is about the Hobbits. You've watched Peter Jackson's movies so you think that the story is at least half about Aragorn.
>Limited and omniscient are two separate and contradictory terms
Except when they're used in conjunction. And don't start pretending that you're some kind of literary scholar.
Henry Wilson
Without Tolkeins books Martin wouldn't have ever written asoiaf. Also, hate to compare writers but Tolkein fought at the fucking Somme and Martin is a fat neckbeard who wears turtle hats.
Alexander Ross
hence the lacking of dimensionality alright mate yeah I see what you are saying. I appreciate your conviction towards the novels and I'm going to go buy them tomorrow and start reading. When I said I was referencing the films so I'll have to revise that after I finish the books
Andrew Cooper
er when I said
Liam Johnson
I haven't actually, so this was pretty good. Cheers user.
Jaxson Bailey
Maggoty bread!
Jacob Ross
>sauron went too No, Sauron stayed on Numenor, which got completely fucked and sank, which destroyed his body. Small detail, but thought I'd call it out
>actually thought this would work It woulda, had Eru not literally made the world round. The army that sailed to Valinor was the greatest the world had ever seen.
Jacob Gonzalez
>here's a bunch of angry stuff I'm projecting/making up and purposefully misreading people's posts Why are you so mad dude? It's fucking Lord of the Rings, it's not high art.
Aaron Ramirez
I'm kinda sad that many parts of Gollum's CGI now really look dated. It's a shame. Maybe Peter Jackson should re-release the movies in theatres again, only with updated CGI.
Jacob Price
Already dropping the literary scholar act? And I thought maybe you'd picked up something on literary theory in a 2000 level English course that you'd try to wave over my head.
Isaiah Collins
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Mason Thompson
Lol GoT is Amerimutt trash for perverts. It has no redeeming qualities whatever. GRRM is a worm next to Tolkien.
Andrew Garcia
Again, why are you so mad? I haven't lied about anything, what would I have to gain? Why is someone who isn't a complete NEET automatically a liar? Is that how insecure you are?
Lucas Jones
Unfair comparison. Unlike Martin, people had actually read and gave a shit about Tolkien's books before the live action versions came out. Fucking Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight had bigger followings that ASOIAF did.
Ironically, it was when they began to move away from Martin's post-modernist shockfest, that the series began to actually develop a point and a central meaning to it all.
Noah Robinson
I recently watched the 70's Hobbit and LOTR movies. Honestly, they aren't that bad. Its a shame they didn't have more of budget.
Noah Ross
well to be fair I think martin would have gotten there eventually. not sure how the shockfest is post-modernist though. history is plenty brutal, the only thing I would say is post-modern about it is its self awareness
Michael King
yeah I heard those were prettyy solid. the animated one ya?
Owen Lee
Yeah. Kinda dated. But watchable.
Nathan Adams
I dont know what the ring will give me then Because i only try to get powerful if i felt like it otherwise the ring wouldnt be useful to me
Maybe i'd use it to get a harem
Kayden Clark
What he's saying is fucking bullshit user.
Kevin Lee
that was embarrassing
Robert Reed
AHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAH
Robert Sanders
There are scenes where the CGI in the movies looks jarring (e.g. Cave Troll battle in FOTR) but Gollum still looks fine today thanks to Andy Serkis' performance and that most of the CGI in the movies isn't brightly lit. Keeping it in the dark or in a dimly lit scene helped obscure the ugly aspects of the technology at the time.
Dominic Wood
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Jonathan Mitchell
Anyone ever read that 1978 critique of Tolkien called "Epic Pooh"? Michael Moorcuck, the author, rails on Tolkien for being a conservative anti-technologist. Yet every time I read LOTR, I can't help but feel sympathy for Tolkien for all the horrors of war he had to go through, seeing the full wrath of human technology. Even at home, the English countryside he grew up in was changing as industry moved in. It's no wonder he created Isengard as a metaphor for the ills of mass industry.
Jesus Christ, this is devolving into GMM vs. Tolkien. Can't some of us respect the fact that a "good vs. evil" story does not make such a theme lesser to one that is "morally ambiguous" and vice versa? Maybe we should switch gears and talk about our disappointment with the Hobbit trilogy?
Eli Ramirez
Morecock is the faggot king of the tryhard edgelords so who gives a shit.
Austin Wood
MUH SILMARILS
Jonathan Parker
Your innate power isnt what you want out of life, its what your already good at.
Elijah Flores
Well I believe it's good to listen to the arguments from the other side in order to counter them. We can't be ignorant of stuff people like Moorcuck produces and just think the LOTR is without its flaws.
Jace Wood
That's not true. You didn't read the books. All beings will become invisible except Sauron.
Jace Lopez
I see user is pulling shit out of his ass again.
Jeremiah Cooper
RIP LOTR
James Russell
The ring enhances who you already are. It would make you invisible to women
Eli Thomas
This will be the true retcon to end all retcons.
Daniel Watson
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Grayson Flores
>no Idris Elba ONE FUCKING JOB
Zachary Ward
I can't even begin to fathom how disgusted I'm going to be with the Amazon adaptation. It's going to hurt me physically.
