Please explain to me how Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke Skywalker is not

Please explain to me how Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke Skywalker is not.

Luke failed at things.

well, we like Luke. And the father being Vader twist was new and ahead of its time

She's a woman

Luke:
>Does not want to be a jedi at first
>Rather just be a farmer
>Only leave because parents die
>Has no actual force skills
>Spends a good amount of time training from master yoda to not be fucking worthless
>Had to learn how to use the force.

Rey:
>LOL I just kinda know what im doing and can use use this lightsabor.

Lukes powers of the force was developed over 3 movies Rey just fucking kinda fell into it with no character faults.

This. Also Luke was natural, sweet, likeable, well written. He had flaws too, he had moments of being an immature brat in the first two films. Rey was clearly a case of some SJW libtard twat going "Oh letz make it a wommyn! duhvursity is gud!"

Luke
>lands a one in a million shot first try

luke
>son of fighter pilot of galactic fame
>grows up flying a fucking plane around all the time like it's a civic
>bullseyes womp rats
thus no one is surprised that with the further assistance of mystical telekinetic training he is able to hit a difficult target

rey
>goes sledding
>eats easy bake biscuit
and immediately knows how to run the falcon better than han & chewie and also beats an apprentice sith lord in her first lightsaber battle

Given Skillset of Rey:
>mechanic
background given by working on ships. Okay
>pilot
none given
>lore expert
tales from outer rim. okay
>weapons user
staff only explained. debatable
>droid talk
junk user. but alone for most of her life?? no.
>wookie talk
no fucking wookies. no
>lightsaber user
uhh no honey
>pistol user
Struggle for her to use. good point
>internal dilemma
Going back to jakku to wait for her parents or go exploring. lolwut

Given skillset of Luke
>marksman
shot womprats
>pilot
skyhopper pilot
>being a whiny fucking bitch
A+++
>internal dilemma
joining the rebellion or becoming a jedi like his father

The skillsets could be changed and luke would still not be a mary sue. Why? Because his fucking dilemma is integral to his struggles and story, and demands for natural progression of his skillset in order to explore his interests

For rey, it's hurr durr let's go exploring or wait for her parents. It's not urgent. Her skills are not necessary, but she just knows what to do. I could not connect with the character. FInn on the other hand, would've been an A++ character. But instead we get the power fantasy of some writers battling the universe to jerk over power levels instead of a good character. Her skillset, whether lacking or full of abundance, defines her character, rather than her struggles

THe point i'm trying to make. Even if Rey was flat on retarded and had only one skill of shooting a gun, but that skillset of shooting a gun helped her in her adventure that had no reason other than lol let's go exploring, she would still be a mary sue. Her skillset is emphasized over her conflicts, thus making her a mary sue.

Luke used the force at the end of the first movie, trained by Yoda but got his hand chopped off in the second, finally defeated Vader in the third. That's called character development.

Marey Sue defeated the bad guy in her first movie, with no training whatsoever.

Um I'm pretty sure in A New Hope Luke was dying to get off planet but Owen and Beru "needed him on the farm" which you just know was total BS.

>Ignoring the fact that luke said he would bullseye wombats back home that were smaller then that.

WOW! so, he managed to make a shot, that was less difficult then what he would do back on when he was board? man, its almost like the shot he took was easier, how weird is that.
>.02 shekels have been deposited into your account, Good Goy.

must be weird having a child's understanding of storytelling. even tvtropes autists can usually understand the concept of a mary sue

Luke is definitely a mary sue.
Except for that time where he got introduced as a dumb, whiney pussy who had to get saved by old ben kenobi multiple times.
And that time that leia dissed him for being a manlet.
And that time he nearly got killed by a snow monster and would have died without han.
And that time where yoda made a fool of him by pretending to be some random crazy guy.
And that time that he gave up on training like a bitch and yoda showed him up.
And time where he didn't listen to yoda and got the shit kicked out of him by vader as a result.
And that time that the emperor almost tricked him into turning to the dark side.
And that time that he wanted to fuck his sister.

But other than that, definitely a mary sue.

Luke had ONE skill. He was a good pilot. Rey was good at EVERYTHING INSTANTLY including Force skills she hadn't known existed before she magically masters them in five seconds.

Luke failed at most of his force use - it was only because of his natural talent and some force focus plus Obi wan force ghost he got that shot
And he failed against the emperor

Luke
>got made fun of by Han and Leia on first meeting
Rey
>almost instantly treated like family

Luke
>only just beginning to learn about the force
Rey
>unlocks advanced Jedi techniques on her own

Luke
>a good fighter pilot from flying through canyons in a small craft because there was fuck all else to do
Rey
>can expertly pilot a large freighter despite no implication that she flew anything before

Luke
>did not bypass the compressor
Rey
>bypassed the character development

Luke
>didn't confront Vader until the second movie and essentially got his ass kicked
Rey
>defeats Kylo 1v1 despite no lightsaber practice

Luke
>can be whiny and sulky
Rey
>no apparent flaws

...

...

He is somewhat.

However, he didn't leave his fucking sand hut on Tatooine with the skills to overpower Darth Vader mentally and physically after Obi-wan showed him a lightsaber for 5 seconds.

Besides his ventilation shot and that troll monster, Luke fucked up every 1v1 fight he ever got into and all his plans failed and he never became a certified Jedi.

how the FUCK am i supposed to relate to an action hero in a movie when its a fucking girl whose got jungle fever.

this

fpbp
Luke made mistakes and badly lost his first really big fight. OP is a faggot.

>jungle fever.

Naw mang that nigga clearly freindzoned. Rey wants the The Chad Kyle's big red lightsaber.

every story needs a mary sue. or the story would not progress. but when the mary sue aka the skillset, is all that's emphasized and the conflict is never brought up again, then we can call the character a mary sue.

rey has no conflict. it's brought up once, and never a thinking point for her again. the end of TFA illustrates that when she decides to go look for Luke Skywalker instead of considering going back to Jakku for her parents.

>I fled a sandspeeder once
>outperforms the greatest pilots Alliance has to offer

I rode a motorbike once and can now fly a US experimental aircraft through harsh weather conditions. I just literally close my eyes, shut off the board computer and "believe in the force" :^)

Luke doesn't best a powerful sith in combat while being completely untrained in the use of a lighsaber, he also doesn't use Jedi mindtricks or the force to levitate shit when he has had no training either

Fuck Rey

Luke was a 18yo lvl100 pilot who got shoved in a bar once, very realistic character with an equal set of flaws and strengths alright.

Luke was very strong in the force even sheeve viewed him as a threat, he just didn't know how to use it

Not to mention even by the end he has to give in to the dark side a little to even beat Vader (who likely didn't even fully want to kill him), and the Emperor beat him easily right after. Luke is pretty weak throughout the whole trilogy and saves the day by convincing his dad to help him, not by just being overpowered.

Nigga luke was a farm boy, idk if you know much farm boys, but they start driving as soon as they reach the peddle, and dip shit he had more then just a speeder you moron, he had an actual atmospheric vehicle he would fly around in, again if you knew any of the lore you would know this. Luke had been flying his whole god damn life.

Now be gone jew shill, these arnt the shekels your looking for.

Part of the definition of a "Mary Sue" is that it has to be an ORIJINAL CHARACTER in an established universe where the OC can overpower and outperform all existing characters. Luke was used to establish the Star Wars universe. By definition, he cannot be a Mary Sue.

Exactly, but he just did not jump into that, he had to learn how to do it.
This as well.

Prove you're not sexist Sup Forums. Name one female protagonist that you actually like. It doesn't have to be a "strong womyn" character, but it does have to be a protagonist.

Oh? What's that? You can't? Then you just hate the idea of women being the main character in a film, and can't relate to girls because you are sexist.

>After literally 12 people sacrificed themselves to protect him
>Being helped by a force ghost
>Also his droid sacrificed himself too
Yeah, he trully did all that in the first go without failing or causing a single casualty, just like Rey

I am so sick and tired of discussing this bullshit over and over again

Imagine being a New York taxi driver for a couple of years then winning Nurburgring first try. That's what Luke did in IV.

T16 Skyhooper is the civilian version of the T60 Xwing, he was literally piloting the Xwing back in home in his free time.

>Implying i cant answer the questions
well since you did not specify series or mediums
>Lara croft
>Joanna dark
>mara jade
>Jainna proudmore
>The various characters from the warhammer and warhammer 40k series that range from a ship captain, to a random scribe that becomes the fucking gardian of a shard of a being so powerful it was considered a god.

I mean take your pic, we could also dive into LotR if you want. I feel like you are projecting, because you are really projecting here.

>After literally 12 people sacrificed themselves to protect him
Did we watch a different movie or do you have autism? Literally every rebel pilot threw themselves in front of a bullet that was meant for Luke?

Luke didn't do shit until his group went into the trench and even then maybe Biggs was the only one who technically "protected" him.

How the fuck is Rey good at flying the Falcon?

>She worked on it a bunch of times!

Being a mechanic does not make you an F1 Racer. And even if she ever flew the ship it would proably be just to move it from A to B, no room to pull stunts. And then you have her out maneuvering and out flying trained First Order Pilots who have been doing this since Childhood?!

All they needed to fucking do was have Poe go along with Finn and meet Rey then have Poe fly the fucking ship.
>But how would Poe know how to fly the ship?
Just say he is from Correllia and grew up flying ships of similar design or something.

>Struggle for her to use. good point
>misses one single hit then proceeds to head shot 7 stormtroopers in a row while at movement
Yeah, no.

Not even close, luke had an entire life time of piloting under his belt.

Pretty sure a Ferrari is something different then a F1 Ferrari. "Literally" my ass.

Pretty shit trolling attempt, bruv.

Princess leia.
Ripley
Sarah Conner
Mulan

>fucked up every fight
>beats up vader
>beats up shiploads of goons at jabbas
>redeems his father which results in the end of the sith
>not a jedi

Wut

Proved you wrong.

I didn't specify medium, but I assumed it was known that I was referring to actual art; not video games, comic books and RPGs. And I don't know why you're talking about LotR

If canon didn't work T16 skyhooper (even it doesn't look like an xwing at all) was known for being the civilian version of the xwing, in the enciclopedia it was said the avionics and controls were a copy paste of the t60

>18yo
>entire life time
When did he start flying the T-16?

Exactly, in the first film he trains the whole time with Obi-Wan and barely even uses the force. In the second film he can just barely use it to grab a lightsaber a couple of feet away. After training with Yoda he still gets his ass handed to him, and it takes him until the third film to be semi-competent, and still nothing compared to experienced Jedi.

Rey on the other hand has no training whatsoever, yet she can use mind-tricks and some how "out-force" a trained Sith at lightsaber tug-of-war.

Not to mention he only made the shot because once again, he had to get help from han solo who had to cover his ass while he took the shot.
also look at this you faggot!

So, how they can fix Rey and not make her a Mary Sue?

make her a man FIX IT

Han saved Luke from Darth Vader. He had no play in Luke landing that shot on the first try and without the computer - something one of the Rebel's greatest who also happened to be a Clone Wars veteran had failed at doing.

Luke
>Never accomplishes shit on his own, always needs the help of other people and has to be saved of his arrogance and incompetence by his friends in multiple occasions

Rey
>Never fails shit
>Instanly knows everything when plot demands
>Did I say she never fails, is perfect, knows everything, is better at everything than everybody?

...

Rey
>flies millennium falcon with no experience or training
>shits on trained first order pilots first time flying falcon
>is better at fixing falcon then ham fucking solo
>can use force powers like Jedi mind trick with no training
>is instantly well liked by everyone despite being a boring character
>beats a trained sky walker descendent the first time she picks up a lightsaber
>vaders light saber calls to her bc ???

By far the worst, even worse than beating kylo ren was Leia gives her a hug right after Han dies and ignores Chewie, a girl she met a few hours ago. When this was pointed out to JJ he was like oops my bad, he didn't even notice it. Well maybe you shouldn't fucking be in charge of Star Wars if you make that big of a mistake

Luke actually has to train to be decent, isn't actually good until 3rd movie

So movies only?
Black widow
the bitch from guardians
Lara croft again

Ok i want you to get behind a rifle and try to make a shot while someone is setting fire crackers off 2 feet from you, and one with you not, you are going to notice a HUGE, like Donald trump huge, difference.

>Clone Wars veteran had failed at doing
Gold leader didn't look like a Clone or a Jedi

They're going to make her the villain, and it won't even be clever.

They really can't now. The only way they could save her is for her to get rekt or turn to the dark side or something, but there's no chance of that happening.

>implying this is an impossible question to answer
nice bait
I just finished Stargate and the movies and i can definitely name Samantha carter

I wouldn't say Luke is weak, look at his competition literally the 2 most powerful sith to ever exist, it's impressive he beat Vader even if he did tap into the dark side

As for sheeve I know alot of early drafts had Luke killing him, the prequels kinda ruined the lightning thing since now you just think, why didn't Yoda tell him to block that shot not that the emperor is inconceivably powerful

The first two aren't protagonists and an adaptation of a video game isn't better

>every story needs a mary sue. or the story would not progress.
no

>goes from "was the force real?" to "jedi mind tricks" in less than a day
>out maneuvers imperial fighter pilots in a ship she admits she has never flown before

this is some sweet SWEET sperg

Ripley from alien and aliens, one of the most influential syfy horror films ever made.
Check, and mate.

Luke

>receives training from Obi-wan and Yoda with the force and using a lightsaber
>gets his ass handed to him the first time he goes up against Vader


Rey

>zero training with any experienced Jedi or force users
>no experience using a lightsaber
>overpowers Kylo Ren in both a lightsaber duel and in control of the force the first time she's tested

Textbook Mary Sue.

This.
This is how Rey should have been.

The worst of all, Rey will be able to pull whatever the fuck she wants from her ass and nobody will be able to complain because she will be trained by Luke.

>Name one female protagonist that you actually like
Ripley

I thought it was impossible to beat E1 annoying mary sue Anakin, but they outperformed themselves with her

>confirmed not knowing what the fuck he is talking about
It's Red Leader Garven Dreis and he has the line about knowing Luke's father, having fought with him. Old canon had a comic about him being in a militia fighter squad.

Oh good you just repeated the same thing 3 other people have said, really proves you are not sexist!

Well I meant he's weak in force ability compared to all the other force users we see. Vader and the Emperor are way stronger, Yoda is far stronger, and we don't know much about Obi-Wan, but he seemed stronger too. In the original trilogy we didn't have many other people to compare him to, but all the ones you do compare him to make him seem weaker. So my point wasn't that he wasn't gifted, or that he wasn't a useful addition to the rebellion, just that he's kind of an underdog going up against and being trained by people who are much stronger than him.

Those Quads

>People cant have the same favorite female protagonest
HOLD ON! Thats a yellow card right there, illegal moving of the goal post.
You can leave the thread in shame knowing you just got proven wrong. Typical fucking soyboy.

Anderson from Dredd.
Terminator 1 and 2 Sarah Connor.
Helen Ripley.
Lara Croft.

You are welcome fuckboy.

>flying through canyons in a small craft
How did that poor piece of shit get any craft,beat to hell civic, maybe.

Ripleys character was written for a man, so she doesn't count.

ok. it's evident in the first thing we learn about the characters.
luke skywalker is a farmboy. a rugged life on the frontier, but he has his aunt and uncle to look after him.
rey... has nobody. she "raised herself" and despite being an exploited worker somehow has a heart of gold. people who go through hard times like that become hard people. also, she's worth waaaay more as a sex commodity than a scrap forager. shit backstory. none of it adds up.

Alice from the resident evil series.

It does, because the only time a strong woman works is when she's a genderbent man. Sarah Connor in T2 is so fucking tryhard is embarrassing.

>>Name one female protagonist that you actually like
>Ripley
>that get

I never said that people can't have the same favorite female protagonist, but the point from the very beginning was to prove you are not sexist. Since you only copied what other people said you have proved nothing.

Literally every one has been said, and they're also the only actual protagonists that have been said. Apply yourself.

read the rest of the paragraph. Mary Sue is a skill set, not a character. Rey is still a Mary sue

Damn son, i did not know you could even move a goal post that far off the field lol.
Whats the matter soyboy.

Sir,that is a very good p/o/int.
And you know whatever he "piloted" was a shit box, because poor.

Pretty sure they only seem that way because of the times and the way the films were made, obi wan didn't become a worse fighter in ANH but look at him in ROTS, if the OT was made when the prequels were luke would be doing all sorts of flashy dbz shit

Hell before the prequels came Luke WAS doing flashy dbz shit for the way the sw universe was at the time

Jackie Brown
Geena Davis in The Fly (Veronica)
Sissy Spaceck in Badlands
Jlaw in Winter's Bone is ok

>Ripleys character was written for a man, so she doesn't count.

Soyboy backed into a corner, cant think of anything else to do but move his goal post and try again.

muh childhood

Is there a star wars character that could even possibly EVEN TOUCH Rey? Let alone defeat her. And I’m not talking about Ulic Quel Droma. I’m not talking about Malgus. Hell I'm not even talking about Exar Kun, Vitiate, the DreadMasters, Naga Sadow inside his meditation sphere, Ludo Kresh, Simus in his body, Bandon, Mandalore the Indomintable, Mandalore the Ultimate, Mandalore the Mandalorian, Darth Nox, Varas, Angral, Nihilius, Sion, Traya, Tenebrous, Carnor Jax, Skippy, Insanius, Darth Stalker, Krayt, Teemto pagalies, Plagueis, Bane with the orbalisks, Lord Kaan with a hundred siths making the Thought Bomb
Keep in mind I'm talking about Exar Kun after sacrificing his Massasi warriors in his sacrifacing room from Yavin 4 and using the Naga Sadow's ancient amulet from the spirit of Freedon Nadd

...

I like dozens of them you stupid shit. Literally all best anime have female leads. But nips do them right not retarded feminist Mary Sue political bullcrap western way.

Well, if they keep fett alive, i think he would have a good shot at her.

Sexist backed into a corner, cant think of anything else to do but use autistic insults and spout irrelevant argumentative fallacies.